Advice on Tank Build

ZeroXFF

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

now that the the ward on the other morph lasts for 6.9 seconds, i would not say that is completely useless as well, 15% of 35k us about a 5k ward. that is pretty good, especially since wards now take armor into consideration.

So an equivalent of a 2.5k heal, at the cost of more than 1/2 GDB that when timed well can heal for 10k+ and can crit, as well as double-dip on Argonian passives and CPs. And it's also weaker than Igneous Shield that would also protect people around you and give you stam.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

now that the the ward on the other morph lasts for 6.9 seconds, i would not say that is completely useless as well, 15% of 35k us about a 5k ward. that is pretty good, especially since wards now take armor into consideration.

So an equivalent of a 2.5k heal, at the cost of more than 1/2 GDB that when timed well can heal for 10k+ and can crit, as well as double-dip on Argonian passives and CPs. And it's also weaker than Igneous Shield that would also protect people around you and give you stam.

what makes it the "equivalent of a 2.5k heal"? only thing that wards don't take into consideration is block and you do not block all the time. and if you followed the plot, i said to take the other morph first. look i am not comparing Hardened Armor to other skills, i am comparing Hardened Armor to chudan. so come at me with reasons why chudan is better then Hardened Armor or the one i said to use, Volatile Armor.

ZeroXFF

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

now that the the ward on the other morph lasts for 6.9 seconds, i would not say that is completely useless as well, 15% of 35k us about a 5k ward. that is pretty good, especially since wards now take armor into consideration.

So an equivalent of a 2.5k heal, at the cost of more than 1/2 GDB that when timed well can heal for 10k+ and can crit, as well as double-dip on Argonian passives and CPs. And it's also weaker than Igneous Shield that would also protect people around you and give you stam.

what makes it the "equivalent of a 2.5k heal"? only thing that wards don't take into consideration is block and you do not block all the time. and if you followed the plot, i said to take the other morph first. look i am not comparing Hardened Armor to other skills, i am comparing Hardened Armor to chudan. so come at me with reasons why chudan is better then Hardened Armor or the one i said to use, Volatile Armor.

Volatile armor is useless on anything but trash fights, and even then you don't want to rely on volatile to hold aggro, you're better off using talons.

And yes, you have to compare it to other skills, because they all use magicka, and you're wasting it on the resist buff if you don't use Chudan.

only thing that wards don't take into consideration is block

Exactly. You may not block all the time, but you do most of the time, especially when there is a lot of damage coming in, which is when you need it.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

now that the the ward on the other morph lasts for 6.9 seconds, i would not say that is completely useless as well, 15% of 35k us about a 5k ward. that is pretty good, especially since wards now take armor into consideration.

So an equivalent of a 2.5k heal, at the cost of more than 1/2 GDB that when timed well can heal for 10k+ and can crit, as well as double-dip on Argonian passives and CPs. And it's also weaker than Igneous Shield that would also protect people around you and give you stam.

what makes it the "equivalent of a 2.5k heal"? only thing that wards don't take into consideration is block and you do not block all the time. and if you followed the plot, i said to take the other morph first. look i am not comparing Hardened Armor to other skills, i am comparing Hardened Armor to chudan. so come at me with reasons why chudan is better then Hardened Armor or the one i said to use, Volatile Armor.

Volatile armor is useless on anything but trash fights, and even then you don't want to rely on volatile to hold aggro, you're better off using talons.

And yes, you have to compare it to other skills, because they all use magicka, and you're wasting it on the resist buff if you don't use Chudan.

only thing that wards don't take into consideration is block

Exactly. You may not block all the time, but you do most of the time, especially when there is a lot of damage coming in, which is when you need it.

if you want to start talking saving magic, since you and everyone in your Lord Warden blue circle get ~3.8k armor, which is ~5.8% damage reduction for you and up to five other players, you save the healer and your dps way more magic then whatever you think you save by not casting whichever skill you want to get the buffs. i actually run base 30k resists on my dk tank, in 6/1 heavy/medium, so i do not even need to cast any skill to have lord warden put me over the cap, this is with an infused weapon and all armor and shield sturdy, ebon/alkosh/LW. i use immovable brute as well, weird i know, for those moments when i don't want to get knocked down and the 24% cost reduction of break free.

i also do not block "most of the time". you simply need to watch for big hits, the one that knock you down.

satanio

Just stay flexible, farm your collection of sets and use them according to the situation.
Same goes for skills... the Volatile Armor-Balance-Chudan war for example you see in this topic, it's very hard to say which is better because situations, groups and people differ. Sometimes I don't even want that šitty Major Resolve, 'cause bleeds are killing me (they're surpassing resistances), therefore I'd rather use moar healing.
Everything really depends on what content you're doing, how experienced you're in that content and what group you're doing it with.

I'll end it with these words of wisdom:
Read your skills and know your tools.
IMPROVISE. ADAPT. OVERCOME.

WoppaBoem

I will share here the best sustain and fun I had on my DK Tank.

Hide of the Werewolf - Weapons and Jewerly
BloodSpawn
Warrior Poet (use what every you want here)

Unkillable and you put out so many war horns sometimes you can even keep up time 100%.

max_only

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

but what do I get to lock down mobs on Templar?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Time_Stop

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Arrow_Spray, bombard morph

Bring a bow to tank a pug? In this game? Why would I invite that toxicity?

Time Stop is a great idea though thanks for that. None of my characters have done Summerset yet, time to get my Templar butt in gear

ol_BANK_lo

Hixtory wrote: »

paulychan wrote: »

Go argonian and farm mol

I would say the same but the annnounced incoming changes will have a probability of 99% of argonians being nerfed and nords buffed. My main tank is nord and she does fine, but with argonian right now the sustain is way better.

Yep, too many Argonians running around Cryo, which will kill PvE tank sustain. As usual, they will balance one and kill the other.

ol_BANK_lo

jazsper77 wrote: »

So I have finally decided to role a Tank after playing since launch. Just wondering on gear choices ,race and Stam/mag.

1. Leaning Nord or Argonian
2. Leaning Stam Build
3. I have Full sets of Ebon and dragonguard plus I can craft anything.
4. I will not for the life of me farm vMOL for Alkosh. Lol
5. PVE
Any advice and tips greatly welcomed and a big thanks as always.

You say PvE, but not Alkosh or even running mol. What is that you want to do? Just run Ebon with Dragon then - somewhat selfish, somewhat team helper.

ol_BANK_lo

yurimodin wrote: »

Ebon is a good starter set but its overrated IMHO.....here is my Tank build. Not Meta but its getting the job done for now.

https://youtu.be/ekK9tkC4p9Y

Engine Guardian, Fortified and Plague Doctor...and says Ebon is overrated. You have the tankiest, most selfish tank build you can run. That's fine, but you don't understand team comp and raiding if you think Ebon is overrated and that's ur build. Not trying to be mean, but it's true.

dovakiin5574

Just craft Torug's, use ebon jewlery + 2 body for the cheapest build option, craft the rest Torug's Pact. Similar debuff as Alkosh, all the cool end game tanks use Torug's

jazsper77

Thanks guys

jazsper77

Also I’m considering using my Warden who is collecting dust for normal/fun tanking. Using the DK for Vet bases content, what do you guys/gals think ?

dovakiin5574

jazsper77 wrote: »

Also I’m considering using my Warden who is collecting dust for normal/fun tanking. Using the DK for Vet bases content, what do you guys/gals think ?

All classes are viable for end game tanking. So, sure have some fun

pelle412

I tank all dungeons (except a few vet dlcs) in powerful assault + alkosh w/ sword/shield + maelstrom bow. With this I can CC, aggro, buff, debuff, and do damage. For trials it's a different ballgame and for that you need quite a few sets to be ready for anything. Go with a beginner guide and get your feet wet in the role.

jazsper77

Ty

ZeroXFF

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

now that the the ward on the other morph lasts for 6.9 seconds, i would not say that is completely useless as well, 15% of 35k us about a 5k ward. that is pretty good, especially since wards now take armor into consideration.

So an equivalent of a 2.5k heal, at the cost of more than 1/2 GDB that when timed well can heal for 10k+ and can crit, as well as double-dip on Argonian passives and CPs. And it's also weaker than Igneous Shield that would also protect people around you and give you stam.

what makes it the "equivalent of a 2.5k heal"? only thing that wards don't take into consideration is block and you do not block all the time. and if you followed the plot, i said to take the other morph first. look i am not comparing Hardened Armor to other skills, i am comparing Hardened Armor to chudan. so come at me with reasons why chudan is better then Hardened Armor or the one i said to use, Volatile Armor.

Volatile armor is useless on anything but trash fights, and even then you don't want to rely on volatile to hold aggro, you're better off using talons.

And yes, you have to compare it to other skills, because they all use magicka, and you're wasting it on the resist buff if you don't use Chudan.

only thing that wards don't take into consideration is block

Exactly. You may not block all the time, but you do most of the time, especially when there is a lot of damage coming in, which is when you need it.

if you want to start talking saving magic, since you and everyone in your Lord Warden blue circle get ~3.8k armor, which is ~5.8% damage reduction for you and up to five other players, you save the healer and your dps way more magic then whatever you think you save by not casting whichever skill you want to get the buffs. i actually run base 30k resists on my dk tank, in 6/1 heavy/medium, so i do not even need to cast any skill to have lord warden put me over the cap, this is with an infused weapon and all armor and shield sturdy, ebon/alkosh/LW. i use immovable brute as well, weird i know, for those moments when i don't want to get knocked down and the 24% cost reduction of break free.

i also do not block "most of the time". you simply need to watch for big hits, the one that knock you down.

You're either lying, or you spend way too many CPs on resistances. I need defending weapons or minor resist buffs and chudan to get over the cap, and that with quite a few points in heavy armor focus (32, I think, not at the PC to check). There is no way you get over cap with infused weapons and LW proc but without major resist buffs if you're wearing 6/1/0 without resist bonuses.

Don't need to continue a conversation with proven liars. Have a nice day.

Kilnerdyne

I assume you're not planning on doing any trials at all if you won't put the minimal effort in required for a couple of normal maw of lorkhaj?

xaraan

I would say it depends on what kind of content you plan on running and with what sort of group.

As for class - DK has felt the 'easiest' in all situations over the years to tank with. Warden and Templar are both solid, as is sorc.

Everyone will talk 'meta' but meta only works with meta groups. Ebon/Alkosh is one of the big go-to meta setups and it's solid, mostly for trials. The extra health given to that many people and the Alkosh debuff supplying 7-8 dps with 3k+ pen is hard to beat.

BUT, if you are running with a group that isn't setup meta, then forcing your support to run meta when the dps are not won't always work out great.

I actually enjoy tanking when I get to use a lot of different sets for different reasons. For example when we did Maw, our main tank had ebon/alkosh, so I wore Lunar Bastion/Alkosh and a healing monster set to offer the group that little bit of Lunar Bastion shielding on top of the MT's ebon and help with heals from various skills + MH set. For vCR right now, I'm wearing the traditional Ebon/Alkosh/Earthgore, but on a templar tank and doing a bunch of buff work, PoL, etc. while the other two tanks do the downstiars/zmaja bit and stay extra tanky just to be safe and not have to worry over them. But we are going down a rabit hole of me enjoying all these builds...

The main thing is if you get in a group that wants you to do meta and they are telling everyone what DPS character type they have to bring and what DPS they have to meet to join the group. They are probably going to tell you Ebon/Alkosh not just b/c a streamer says it, but b/c it is effective. And if they are that focused on meta, they won't be able to think outside the box and won't be able to do some of the content if they cannot burn past the mechanics (I've run with people from top trial guilds that are scared of lunar phase in Maw).

If you are doing a lot of dungeons more than anything else, you might find the Warden strong for that. Especially if you want to run a sort of heal/tank and go with 3 dps. And this sort of setup you can often skip the whole Ebon/Alkosh thing because the dps will be high enough with three of them and dungeons don't have a desperate need to burn past mechanics in order to complete them as some trials do (for some groups) -- (and you might also not have consistent synergies to trigger for alkosh depending on the group) and as for Ebon, usually that extra 1K health shouldn't be making the difference for 3 people in the group in a simple dungeon - I find healing the damage they take vs. giving them a 1K buffer to be more useful (most of the time). I actually have been enjoying Battallion set from pvp for that b/c it sends out heals as you block and in dungeons you have more trash than most of the newer trials, so you are passively throwing out heals with that in addition to any active heals. I also think Olorime from the CR trial can be good on a warden, you can put that buff circle down consistently for the three dps and it gives you regen for using your abilities and damage reduction for tanking that doesn't hurt (even if not a huge help). Throw on either an Earthgore or Lord Warden set up for extra emergency heals or protection (I like Earthgore for runs with no dedicated healer) and it's a pretty solid set and you feel much more active.

One last note, I actually put together a set of Sunderflame (From city of ash) for my DK to use with some pug setups. If you won't be getting consistent Alkosh synergies in a run b/c of the group setup or just fake healers, then you can throw on sunderflame, and you are at least putting the same debuff as Power of the Light from templar on everything and the passives on the gear don't suck as much as Alkosh for actual tanking bonuses.

In the end, it all depends on your group that you play with. Some might want you extra tanky so they can almost ignore you. Some want you to be nothing more than a buff monkey and will plan to wipe a run at the first hiccup and start over. Some will want to figure out a happy medium and recover the run and only wipe as a last resort. Some will be random pug runs with all variety of skill and experience level. So don't be afraid to work with your group leads to figure out the best setups for the group you'll be tanking for and be willing to switch up on your gear. (And yea, you'll want to farm Alkosh even if you dont' want it - I hate the set with a passion, I wish ZoS would make it so only the person triggering it gets the debuff benefit and take it off the plate for tanks, but b/c it is the best for the top burn groups and those are the groups that get the most attention b/c of streaming and scores, it will always be pushed as 'must have' for tanking - making our job that much more boring IMO).

edit: one last note, I don't care for Torug's at all. It offers no more crusher uptime, you can already reapply the enchant as soon as it goes away with Infused. And only offers a few hundred more pen. For a DK, the extra spell resist isn't needed (could be useful to a different tanking class of course). So to me, it's just a so-so set and definitely doesn't deserve the same attention as several other tanking sets.

D0PAMINE

Caltrops stacks from multiple sources yes?

MartiniDaniels

max_only wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

but what do I get to lock down mobs on Templar?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Time_Stop

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Arrow_Spray, bombard morph

Bring a bow to tank a pug? In this game? Why would I invite that toxicity?

Time Stop is a great idea though thanks for that. None of my characters have done Summerset yet, time to get my Templar butt in gear

You don't believe, I pugged random vets hundred+ times with bow on backbar for nb and medium armor dk (before zos ditched evasion to secondary so-so buff from plain cool -15%) and never heard a single complain. Bombard is awesome because it's instant, zero delay, just press button and everything rooted, there is no 1 second while crystals grow like with sorc's cc, no need to rush inside the crowd like claws etc. Also bow same as ice staff provide ranged interrupt.. it saves the day with random groups. (even if this is people from your guild.. how many dps slot ranged interrupt? nobody, and in new dungeons where boss jumps all around the field via scripts and every not interrupted boss mechanic leads to minimum 1 dead teammate..)

MartiniDaniels

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Caltrops stacks from multiple sources yes?

Lol, i remember similar discussion a month ago

FrancisCrawford

Liofa wrote: »

It hurts me seeing all these "Chudan vs. Hardened Armour" talk when the best way is Balance. Come on people, you play tanks! Don't be scared of 5k damage every once in a while ^^ You gain Magicka for using it and allows you to run a monster set that's actually useful.

It's not the damage that's scary; it's the other negative side effects. Why are they non-issues?

Hotdog_23

Liofa wrote: »

It hurts me seeing all these "Chudan vs. Hardened Armour" talk when the best way is Balance. Come on people, you play tanks! Don't be scared of 5k damage every once in a while ^^ You gain Magicka for using it and allows you to run a monster set that's actually useful.

Have to get mages guild up to 8 first, which is pain in the arse on console.