They really do hate ice.

Unit117

So previously I made a post talking about how zeni hates ice, they ignore us and rarely do anything for us. What do I mean?

It always has to be the most difficult to get and least options compared to fire and lighting and poison also gets more love.

Only 3 ice sets that are terrible with winterborn bind on pickup with one of he worst grinds in game.

One monster set that underperforms

Last element to get a class. warden

Butchered into a dps/tank split then they just abandoned it never going back to give it a clear path making ice as a whole underperforming. Ice staff is also a mess

There’s a serious lack of ice related content compared to fire lightning and poison.

Last element to get a arms pack


No frost Atronach crowncrates and anything we do get that’s ice related is always the more expensive... look at this frost mount and the ice pet. With only other ever being the ice wraith pet from a program they abandoned and never gave us a new way to earn it or something similar to it.

It just keeps going and going. I should be excited to see a chance to get more ice stuff but no. Instead of pricing them like everything else you up the price for them. What the hell...

Volckodav

really agree, and as I am a fan of iceden the really must do A ICE DAMAGE MORPH FOR BIRDS!!!
with that I can really build some serious ice builds

Unit117

Volckodav wrote: »

really agree, and as I am a fan of iceden the really must do A ICE DAMAGE MORPH FOR BIRDS!!!
with that I can really build some serious ice builds

Frozen gate should be straight up removed and replaced with something better. It has so many drawbacks making it god awful

Chaos2088

Ice damage is being looked into in the next few patches.

Think part of one of the class rep notes said ZoS are looking into it.

Watch this space...etc etc

Caligamy_ESO

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Ice damage is being looked into in the next few patches.

Think part of one of the class rep notes said ZoS are looking into it.

Watch this space...etc etc

So basically.. in 2 years they'll nerf the ice skills damage by 30% and add an extra +1% cold damage bonus per skill point to the passives. Sounds about right.

Unit117

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Ice damage is being looked into in the next few patches.

Think part of one of the class rep notes said ZoS are looking into it.

Watch this space...etc etc

Have they said anything specific I can see?

Unit117

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Ice damage is being looked into in the next few patches.

Think part of one of the class rep notes said ZoS are looking into it.

Watch this space...etc etc

So basically.. in 2 years they'll nerf the ice skills damage by 30% and add an extra +1% cold damage bonus per skill point to the passives. Sounds about right.

That’s what I’m afraid off 😢

Dracane

Frost staves and frost damage for tanking is an interesting idea, but they must improve it.
Frost staves are only viable for very specific tank builds and even then, they are worse in everything compared to sword and shield. They have less resistances, less % mitigation and no further passives associated with them.

ArchMikem

Winterborn, Ysgramor's, and Iceheart is pretty much the only gear setup available for a pure Frost damage build. Even then people would hate me for going into a Vet Dungeon with it. My poor Ice Mage.

Unit117

ArchMikem wrote: »

Winterborn, Ysgramor's, and Iceheart is pretty much the only gear setup available for a pure Frost damage build. Even then people would hate me for going into a Vet Dungeon with it. My poor Ice Mage.

Lol that’s exactly what I’m wearing right now. It’s so bad..

AlienatedGoat

Players: "No viable Ice DPS option. ZOS pls!"

ZOS: "Here's an ice cat mount. 600 gems."

ESO_Nightingale

Alright guys. We can do this. Ive been very vocal on the discords and have been talking to many of the reps about it. Ive made several disgustingly long ice posts and ive been pushing the Arctic Wind Master Plan which we honed to its current form on the discord. We need to ALL band together on the discord and the forums. Ice is the key to unlocking magdens power. It has our second dps ultimate, it has several bad morphs. 2-4 depending on how you look at it. And it has the potential to have more potent passives with an updated version of glacial presence. We lack an execute too.

Ahala on the Warden Discord has suggested reworking crystallized slab into a crystallized swords skill that acts as a proc skill with an execute attached.

Below ill link the discord link to the Warden Discord if you have not joined: https://discord.gg/XgM5Cag

Later today ill be making an unofficial frost discord.

SilverIce58

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright guys. We can do this. Ive been very vocal on the discords and have been talking to many of the reps about it. Ive made several disgustingly long ice posts and ive been pushing the Arctic Wind Master Plan which we honed to its current form on the discord. We need to ALL band together on the discord and the forums. Ice is the key to unlocking magdens power. It has our second dps ultimate, it has several bad morphs. 2-4 depending on how you look at it. And it has the potential to have more potent passives with an updated version of glacial presence. We lack an execute too.

Ahala on the Warden Discord has suggested reworking crystallized slab into a crystallized swords skill that acts as a proc skill with an execute attached.

Below ill link the discord link to the Warden Discord if you have not joined: https://discord.gg/XgM5Cag

Later today ill be making an unofficial frost discord.

You should be a rep for the wardens

DocFrost72

Unit117 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Volckodav wrote: »

really agree, and as I am a fan of iceden the really must do A ICE DAMAGE MORPH FOR BIRDS!!!
with that I can really build some serious ice builds

Frozen gate should be straight up removed and replaced with something better. It has so many drawbacks making it god awful

Please don't do that. I'm finding a lot of use for it in pve tanking and open world pvp.

LordGavus

DocFrost72 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Unit117 wrote: »

Volckodav wrote: »

really agree, and as I am a fan of iceden the really must do A ICE DAMAGE MORPH FOR BIRDS!!!
with that I can really build some serious ice builds

Frozen gate should be straight up removed and replaced with something better. It has so many drawbacks making it god awful

Please don't do that. I'm finding a lot of use for it in pve tanking and open world pvp.

Agreed. I find it works really well with my frost tank. If it was removed it would pretty much destroy how my frost tank works.

ESO_Nightingale

LordGavus wrote: »

show previous quotes

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Unit117 wrote: »

Volckodav wrote: »

really agree, and as I am a fan of iceden the really must do A ICE DAMAGE MORPH FOR BIRDS!!!
with that I can really build some serious ice builds

Frozen gate should be straight up removed and replaced with something better. It has so many drawbacks making it god awful

Please don't do that. I'm finding a lot of use for it in pve tanking and open world pvp.

Agreed. I find it works really well with my frost tank. If it was removed it would pretty much destroy how my frost tank works.

same i think that since people like it, it should stay but the warden discord thinks that they should remove the tank pull from frozen retreat. i've also heard that people like retreat too. so i think they should add frozen retreat to the base skill and then remove the tank pull from it so that tanks don't lose anything but so dps can gain a skill, we talked about making the skill a ranged teleport that is fair for the caster and the map (cant tp onto walls on keeps) and would gain a streak-like soft cooldown. this would mean that magden gains back their lost mobility that they lost last patch. however if we gain back the the mobility, what you would do to it is open to your interpretation.

ESO_Nightingale

SilverIce58 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright guys. We can do this. Ive been very vocal on the discords and have been talking to many of the reps about it. Ive made several disgustingly long ice posts and ive been pushing the Arctic Wind Master Plan which we honed to its current form on the discord. We need to ALL band together on the discord and the forums. Ice is the key to unlocking magdens power. It has our second dps ultimate, it has several bad morphs. 2-4 depending on how you look at it. And it has the potential to have more potent passives with an updated version of glacial presence. We lack an execute too.

Ahala on the Warden Discord has suggested reworking crystallized slab into a crystallized swords skill that acts as a proc skill with an execute attached.

Below ill link the discord link to the Warden Discord if you have not joined: https://discord.gg/XgM5Cag

Later today ill be making an unofficial frost discord.

You should be a rep for the wardens

thanks!

LordGavus

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

show previous quotes

LordGavus wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Unit117 wrote: »

Volckodav wrote: »

really agree, and as I am a fan of iceden the really must do A ICE DAMAGE MORPH FOR BIRDS!!!
with that I can really build some serious ice builds

Frozen gate should be straight up removed and replaced with something better. It has so many drawbacks making it god awful

Please don't do that. I'm finding a lot of use for it in pve tanking and open world pvp.

Agreed. I find it works really well with my frost tank. If it was removed it would pretty much destroy how my frost tank works.

same i think that since people like it, it should stay but the warden discord thinks that they should remove the tank pull from frozen retreat. i've also heard that people like retreat too. so i think they should add frozen retreat to the base skill and then remove the tank pull from it so that tanks don't lose anything but so dps can gain a skill, we talked about making the skill a ranged teleport that is fair for the caster and the map (cant tp onto walls on keeps) and would gain a streak-like soft cooldown. this would mean that magden gains back their lost mobility that they lost last patch. however if we gain back the the mobility, what you would do to it is open to your interpretation.

I'd be happy with something like that. Would open up more options with out removing current use.

ESO_Nightingale

Unofficial ESO Frost Discord link!: https://discord.gg/f5UfPFf

It's finally up!

Jameliel

ArchMikem wrote: »

Winterborn, Ysgramor's, and Iceheart is pretty much the only gear setup available for a pure Frost damage build. Even then people would hate me for going into a Vet Dungeon with it. My poor Ice Mage.

And even then, Necropotence performs better with Winterborn than Ysgramors.

Jamdarius

Well the problem is instead of making the morphs matter on the ice tree of wardens they kinda made a mess out of it, 1 morph should be for tank play other morphs should be for ice dps... it seems to me like when designing the ice wardens skill they lost themselves along the way. I still remember somewhere when Gina said in same post: we are aware people want ice mages to be viable and we will be working on it ... and few lines later ice is meant to be for tanking and will be that way...

I mean WTH xD in same post they wrote that they are aware what we want but won't give it to us hahahaha

Full post

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/431189/class-reps-meeting-notes-august-16/p1

Cut and edited to find it easier for lazy people

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Below you'll find the topics we discussed with the Class Reps during our meeting yesterday, with the notes compiled by the Reps themselves. In this meeting, we discussed some of the goals we have for Update 20 and beyond, making sure they're hitting on the larger pain points currently in-game. Usual caveat: This is not a list of everything that will be changing, and may not include every piece of feedback that was received.

---

Beforehand, we [Class Reps] sent ZOS a bunch of documents, videos, and charts covering previous pain points, community feedback since our last meeting, observations on the PTS process and launch of update 19, and DPS/resource management comparisons. Tasear also has a list of bugs that is being kept up to date.

Spoiler

ZOS’s high-level goals and things actively being worked on for update 20

• Smaller number of high impact changes
• Harness Magicka and Conjured Ward skills are overshadowing and diminishing the role of healers
• Light and Medium Armor do not compare favorably to Heavy Armor (mostly in PvP: it’s easier to get good damage, sustain, and mitigation from heavy)
• Duel Wield is an end-game PvE requirement because of the Blade Cloak skill
• Want to get class DPS and resource regeneration more in tune with each other

Specific Class goals for update 20
Dragonknights:

• Address inconsistent ability ranges (Embers 5 meters, Whip 8 meters, Flames 10 meters)
• Hardened Armor morph needs improvement
• Power Lash stun does not synergize well with class theme of control. Also want to move away from high burst+stun mechanics

Nightblades:

• Piercing Mark is too hard of a counter for stealth gameplay
• Dark Cloak Minor Protection buff is too short
• Would like to have players choose between high damage or strong healing rather than current model

Wardens:

• Better ability to control opponents in PvP
• High DPS too reliant on Bear
• More fluid rotation rather than buff spamming
• Needs a unique buff to offer groupmates

Sorcerers:

• Bound Armor needs to be more worthwhile
• The Overload skill is awkward with the class kit: it’s either a gank gimmick or not used much
• Crystal Fragments needs to be more cost effective

Templars:

• Need an ultimate for burst damage
• Agree that Templars fighting over repenting corpses is undesirable
• Make Focused Charge easier to use in melee range
• Make the Spear Wall passive more applicable

ZOS is working on making sure CC mechanics, specifically breaking free and CC immunity, are more reliable.

Goals beyond Update 20 that ZOS is currently working on:

• It is too difficult to land untargeted AoE abilities such as the Templar Puncturing Strikes ability
• They know players don’t like feeling forced to be vampires
• More diversity for Tank gearing
• Want to make healing both more valuable and rewarding for end-game group play
  • Also, aware that Battlegrounds need to do a better job with medals and showing healer contributions
• Make Streak ability work better on uneven terrain
• Improve the unique feel of each class
• Pets more predictable and easier to manage.

[*] They know players want the “Ice Mage” theme

Spoiler

[*] Some classes need better resource regeneration while blocking


After this, ZOS asked if any points not listed above needed emphasis. Class reps responded:

• Stamina classes, in particular Dragonknight and Sorcerer, need to get more out of their native kit and feel a better sense of identity rather than just a collection of weapon abilities.
  • Stamina diversity in DPS is also lacking as gear and weapon bars are almost identical between classes.
• Templars still need some form of pro-active defense. Sun Shield is an obvious candidate for reform as it’s not a popular skill
• Sorcerers are still going to lack options and are crammed for bar space. Rune Cage changes have come fast, and many feel they are right back to where they started with relying on Master Destro staff
  • We talked about giving an instant cast option for a lower damaging Crystal Blast morph
• Templars sharing corpses for Repentance would solve the fighting-between-allies problem, but may have undesirable PvP consequences as denying enemy templars was a legit gameplay mechanic
• High burst damage from stealth (mostly via Snipe and Overload) needed better ques (as opposed to flat nerfs). ZOS told us they were working on bugs (such as Snipe health desynchs) to help and suggested that they may look into PvP burst damage more generally
• PvE DPS diversity is a huge pain point. This lead to a more in-depth discussion.

PVE diversity. Class reps brought up the unsatisfying “meta” that some groups are just loading up on Nightblade DPS, with just one other support class (DK tank for Engulfing Flames, Templar healer for Purify and PoTL, Sorcerer off-healer for Conduits). To address this, the following points were raised:

• Each class ought to bring something to the team that is both important and meaningful
  • More specifically, each class DPS should do this to avoid the “meta” issue described above
• The class minor buffs that they are currently providing (such as minor sorcery and minor savagery) are too small. It’s better just to load up on the “BiS” DPS class
  • Wardens really lose out here. ZOS knows this and said they will give something else for Wardens to offer.
• The Nightblade class brings the highest DPS and is the only one that feels fluid. The other 4 classes often bottom out on sustain, while the Nightblade keeps doing its smooth rotation.
  • The Nightblade can do this with blue max stat food; the other classes don’t even keep up with sustain drinks
  • The other classes could devote more into resource management, but while doing so addresses the issue with their rotations, they’re further behind in DPS
  • We’d like the Nightblade to be the model for the other classes

ZOS acknowledged this and pointed out a solution may not be easy as they want to avoid the danger of making each class necessary to complete a trial.

• They want to prevent a scenario where a real-life issue caused the stamina Warden to drop raid and then they couldn’t do the trial because no other stamina Warden was available
• They indicated they are looking for a fine balance between these extremes and to chip away at the problem to get to where we’d all like to go

Other issues brought up:

• Absorb Stamina glyphs doing magicka damage went on the list to be changed.
• Why was heavy attack melee range reduced from 10 meters to 7? To make the ranges standardized and avoid problem of why basic attacks are hitting but not abilities
• Why do small daggers and range light attacks do more DPS than huge Axes and melee light attacks? Melee has a hard time Vs. opponents using Swift jewelry. ZOS says they will look more closely into Duel Wield Vs. Two-Handed damage.
• Channeled abilities and those longer than 1 second (like Templar Puncturing Strikes) miss out on Light attacks, which are a big DPS contributor.
  • ZOS said this was a valid point and will look into it.
• Healing/Tanking Diversity
  • Healers want to be more valuable and wanted. Battleground recognition.
  • Some Healing skills, in particular from the Restoration Staff, just aren’t good options (like Force Siphon and the other morph of Combat Prayer that many people don’t even know the name)
  • ZOS indicated there are looking at the discrepancy of stamina regeneration while blocking for all tanks
    • Reps indicated that while this is good, the problem goes deeper as Wardens already have good stamina sustain and DK tanks still dominate since DK tanks provide a valuable DPS buff in Engulfing Flames.
    • Some of this is perception as many people mimic what the notable guilds do.

ZOS then indicated having classes bring unique gameplay was a long-term goal for beyond Update 20.

Question and Answers:

What can we tell people?

• Pretty much anything that comes up in our meeting. ZOS is not going to share things with the Reps that they are not comfortable going public.

What about Frost Staffs?

• The heavy attack is too long for a taunt. Taunt does not provide Major fracture/breach
• ZOS wanted to know if players are switching from stamina to magicka blocking
  • At first, we did. But now most tanks preserve their magicka to cast skills
  • This unfortunately has made the Tri-Focus passive useless or a pain to constantly switch skill points in and out of it.
• Reps said Frost Staff is used mostly a back-bar tank weapon or for the easier dungeons rather than Trials.
• ZOS acknowledged this and will look into it for a future update.
• Frost staff is intended to be a tanking/control element as opposed to a DPS element.

[...]

SaintSubwayy

"Frost staff is intended to be a tanking/control element as opposed to a DPS element"

This is the problem....there is a weapon intended for tanking use in a weaponskillline intended for DMG

Either get frostdestro away from tanking, or get tanking out of destro skillline and give it its own skilline...

Joosef_Kivikilpi

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright guys. We can do this. Ive been very vocal on the discords and have been talking to many of the reps about it. Ive made several disgustingly long ice posts and ive been pushing the Arctic Wind Master Plan which we honed to its current form on the discord. We need to ALL band together on the discord and the forums. Ice is the key to unlocking magdens power. It has our second dps ultimate, it has several bad morphs. 2-4 depending on how you look at it. And it has the potential to have more potent passives with an updated version of glacial presence. We lack an execute too.

Ahala on the Warden Discord has suggested reworking crystallized slab into a crystallized swords skill that acts as a proc skill with an execute attached.

Below ill link the discord link to the Warden Discord if you have not joined: https://discord.gg/XgM5Cag

Later today ill be making an unofficial frost discord.

Glacial Presence passive is such a joke. The one which gives "500 physical and spell resistance per ability from that bar"? Seriously, on putting four abilities for it, it gives... 3% damage reduction, and you're gimping yourself. Hot garbage passive now worth the points.

Jamdarius

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

"Frost staff is intended to be a tanking/control element as opposed to a DPS element"

This is the problem....there is a weapon intended for tanking use in a weaponskillline intended for DMG

Either get frostdestro away from tanking, or get tanking out of destro skillline and give it its own skilline...

Well they say it is meant to be crowd control mechanic type of destro staff however in that case and pls do notice I say it as MAG DK main toon player remove decrease movement speed effects from skills such as eruption etc. so that Ice will be rly the only source of magical slow... not to mention in PvP players use more often the psijic skill instead of ice staff (maybe different in BG but in cyro yeeee Psijic skill on breech).

Chaos2088

A separate staff for tanking...and make frost staff and frost damage a viable end game option. Boom, everyone is happy.

chaz

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Players: "No viable Ice DPS option. ZOS pls!"

ZOS: "Here's an ice cat mount. 600 gems."

That's how to balance things out.

XD

Unit117

@Chaos2088 that would be magical

The_Lex

Chaos2088 wrote: »

A separate staff for tanking...and make frost staff and frost damage a viable end game option. Boom, everyone is happy.

Yep. I'm thinking that ZOS should introduce an alteration staff for tanking.

ESO_Nightingale

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

show previous quotes

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright guys. We can do this. Ive been very vocal on the discords and have been talking to many of the reps about it. Ive made several disgustingly long ice posts and ive been pushing the Arctic Wind Master Plan which we honed to its current form on the discord. We need to ALL band together on the discord and the forums. Ice is the key to unlocking magdens power. It has our second dps ultimate, it has several bad morphs. 2-4 depending on how you look at it. And it has the potential to have more potent passives with an updated version of glacial presence. We lack an execute too.

Ahala on the Warden Discord has suggested reworking crystallized slab into a crystallized swords skill that acts as a proc skill with an execute attached.

Below ill link the discord link to the Warden Discord if you have not joined: https://discord.gg/XgM5Cag

Later today ill be making an unofficial frost discord.

Glacial Presence passive is such a joke. The one which gives "500 physical and spell resistance per ability from that bar"? Seriously, on putting four abilities for it, it gives... 3% damage reduction, and you're gimping yourself. Hot garbage passive now worth the points.

Glacial Presence is the higher proc chance for chilled on winter's embrace skills. and they also gimped that passive too by deleting Arctic Blast. Frozen Armor is the one you're thinking of.

ESO_Nightingale

The_Lex wrote: »

show previous quotes

Chaos2088 wrote: »

A separate staff for tanking...and make frost staff and frost damage a viable end game option. Boom, everyone is happy.

Yep. I'm thinking that ZOS should introduce an alteration staff for tanking.

I've toyed around with the idea before. it works. through spells we see in Skyrim and other titles. For now, we are coming up with creative compromises between the community's DPS wants, ZOS's vision and functionality and needs for warden and the like.

ESO_Nightingale

Chaos2088 wrote: »

A separate staff for tanking...and make frost staff and frost damage a viable end game option. Boom, everyone is happy.

the problem with this great idea is ZOS. this is because they want to keep their vision. so we have been making suggestions that have to compromise between them. this way it is much more likely that they will listen. if at all.