NA VIVEC:EP vs DC vs AP

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Well the title says it all, ap has hit hard times on Vivec, they are getting farmed at an unsustainable rate and are bleeding pop. The only time when ap on vivec can even stand a chance is when Omni is online, this isn’t right that one guild has to carry an entire faction!we have to rally, it doesn’t matter who’s good or bad, if the queen loses ,we all lose! But most importantly.......... we have to find a way to train the ap pugs(near impossible task).How can we train the dominion pugs to be as strong as ep or dc pugs?

Ackwalan

It's simple really. Invite them to your group and treat them like people, not like npc's.

Ahtu

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

How can we train the dominion pugs to be as strong as ep or dc pugs?

1. Use AutoInvite to invite people who say "LFG" in zone chat.
2. Type the keep and side you want to siege in zone, yell, and party chats.
3. Use caps lock at all times to draw attention to your commands.

Haashhtaag

AD just needs to quit sieging the Alesia bridge and mile gate between nikel and ash. Those two things completely kill any push they could get. But tbh the way it is designed completely does not favor AD because of the time it takes to go through other passages to get to the north of the map. It also makes zero sense while choral (sp?) and the town opposite of it to the east aren’t map locations like cropsford and vlast are essentially in AD territory.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

The problem with ad pugs is that they are way to squishy to survive. Doesn’t matter if you have 24 of them, the minute they fight against any real pvp group they get crushed in seconds. They are literally walking ap.

ssewallb14_ESO

You have an 18k health bowtard problem. Maybe try to get some players to reroll warden/dk/templar/sorc, literally anything but cloak spam bow nightblade. It's the worst spec in the game for large fights, which heavily favor brawler specs and AoE burst specs. You'll never take an objective with more than guard NPCs by running away any time a player looks at you and Xv1 sniping random people on the side lines.

Also too many groups that feel avoiding PvP at all costs is a good strategy, it's not. Flanking and hitting back keeps is important, but you can't ONLY do that. It's meant to be a distraction, not a strategy in itself. At some point you have to PvP.

Loralai_907

As an AD pug, I think a lot of the problem is most dont listen or pay attention. A lot seem to not participate correctly in defenses, or listen when more experienced players tell people what needs to happen. I still consider myself fairly inexperienced, but always try to be useful and have really learned a lot just by paying attention and trying to follow directions.

I dont know who all was on later last night, like 2am east coast time, but we did amazing. People were listening to call outs and we defended Alessia for a long fight against a red herd and won. 26k tick for that one. Granted, it wasn't reds A team, and they died in masses, but it was a super fun fight. They came back like 3 times back to back. It was kind of funny.

VaranisArano

Ackwalan wrote: »

It's simple really. Invite them to your group and treat them like people, not like npc's.

From personal experience, this is what turned me from a PVE-only player into a PVPer.

I found a PVP guild where people treated each other well and were willing to invest the time and effort to train as a team and teach new PVP players how to have fun and be effective in Cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is a cold, hard, and unfriendly place for a new or inexperienced player without friends to play with. There's not much to do but follow the zerg and hope to not get killed. If you want them to get better, make Cyrodiil a friendly place to be for a new/inexperienced player and invest the time/effort to teach.

Mintaka5

TBH, a lot of players on DC and AD are overly tactical players. Cyrodiil PvP is strictly designed around being a strategic battle. There are many instances where I encounter DC and AD players solo or grouped, and I honestly cannot figure out what their objective is, but they fight like mad, yet with no goal towards putting points on the campaign scoreboard. That's how you win guys!

AD, for example, will focus too long on one objective:

• Alessia bridge, you guys spend way too much time fighting EP on or around it, yet there are 3 other ways to get around it.
• With the addition of Harluns you guys focus the same track everytime, to the point that when you take Cropsford EP can bet lots of money you guys are doing the Drake > Harluns > Farragut run. Too predictable!
• Speaking of Farragut, you guys spend too much time there once you get it. *** or get off the pot! Stop waiting on DC to cap KC so you can tag team us. Again, very predictable.

DC:

• Like AD you guys are obsessed with single locations. Bleaks and Chalman. Bleaks is just ridiculous, I've never seen any faction commit so many resources to an outpost. After you take that you spend so much time beating on Chalman's door, EP has no choice but to start back capping you. An important thing I learned from another PvP raid leader is timing is everything, and DC takes too much liberty with time on a single objective.
• Chalman? Well I don't get what one of your raids is trying to accomplish, but I've seen a 40 man raid several times beat us (EP) back into the walls, then I can just stand on the wall for days, and watch you run around below, and I'd be lucky to see one DC siege up. What are you trying to accomplish here?

I'm sure all alliances have their failures, but these are just things I've noticed. Both DC and AD it seems are obsessed with trivial kills (too many solo gankers, tower humpers, and those who abuse stealth), and not with strategically looking at the bigger picture. AP sees the bigger picture and uses the zerg to accomplish it strategically not tactically (i.e. GET THOSE KILLS). Kills are a means to an end, but they are not the way campaigns are one. I've said it before to players and I'll say it again, if you want a 1v1 fight go to battlegrounds, or join a dueling guild and duel. Those are tactical forms of gameplay.

Ruckly

DC is strategically sound. The guilds get their fix. The pick up groups get their fix. The solo players get their fix. Our population is low a lot of people quit I think because of lag and disconnects or went to Shor per the advice of the AotP GM. We often have to fight at prime-time 3 bars vs. a hard lock. We make what we can of it. DC likely doesn't feel a strategic imperative because there isn't one. We have 20 random people fighting outside Chal walls with no one setting up siege because no one can be bothered to set up siege. Beating back a greater number of EP to Chal over and over is more fun than starting a siege that raises alarm bells and brings lag. DC isn't dumb. We are getting what we can out of cyrodill pvp. Our groups are effective and I believe they enjoy their time. And if we do string together a bunch of victories it will be negated by a 3 raid stack taking back everything we worked for so it is all vain. And I don't think DC has plans to stack 3 raids because that is boring. Spam green rings run into green rings spam with total abandon whatever into whatever is in front of you and more green rings. Yay we took a fort .

Ixtyr

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

Well the title says it all, ap has hit hard times on Vivec, they are getting farmed at an unsustainable rate and are bleeding pop. The only time when ap on vivec can even stand a chance is when Omni is online, this isn’t right that one guild has to carry an entire faction!we have to rally, it doesn’t matter who’s good or bad, if the queen loses ,we all lose! But most importantly.......... we have to find a way to train the ap pugs(near impossible task).How can we train the dominion pugs to be as strong as ep or dc pugs?

A compliment?

You, sir, get a cookie.

technohic

The mindset of DC is like

"We are already down X in score. Don't bother with Y"

There simply is not a pop lock as often as the other factions. Not sure what AD is complaining about.

Zelda42O

When it comes to Vivec AD isn't going to win. EP has the numbers. DC comes in hard at the beginning then leaves to another campaign which causes them to get pretty consistent under dog buffs for low population that carry them through any of the ad populated times. Its genius. Not to mention half of AD just sits at the gates in zone chat ensuring that even though they aren't playing, we wont get any kind of underdog bonus until its mathematically impossible with the low score one. This is something that the makers need to look into. Same with the way the map is set up, AD is at a constant disadvantage. Also going to have to agree with someone earlier up that said people need to just be nicer to the ones they pick up in groups. Show people the ropes and stop acting like they're an idiot just because they don't know where to go right away.

pzschrek

Ackwalan wrote: »

It's simple really. Invite them to your group and treat them like people, not like npc's.

Then they need to act like people, not like npcs

Ruckly

Zelda42O wrote: »

When it comes to Vivec AD isn't going to win. EP has the numbers. DC comes in hard at the beginning then leaves to another campaign which causes them to get pretty consistent under dog buffs for low population that carry them through any of the ad populated times. Its genius. Not to mention half of AD just sits at the gates in zone chat ensuring that even though they aren't playing, we wont get any kind of underdog bonus until its mathematically impossible with the low score one. This is something that the makers need to look into. Same with the way the map is set up, AD is at a constant disadvantage. Also going to have to agree with someone earlier up that said people need to just be nicer to the ones they pick up in groups. Show people the ropes and stop acting like they're an idiot just because they don't know where to go right away.

AD won two of the last three campaigns . And DC won the other one. EP has always had the strongest faction it is really a two faction effort by DC and AD to offset that. DC couldn't do anything this campaign to generate anything. Everything even in a 3 way war it takes two factions to keep the score level and give a shot for a win. The smartest people in these forums had nothing. I tried they tried nothing. If I phoned up the ghost of Eisenhower he would probably have nothing.

Machete

AD needs to be willing to listen and not just get the whole faction farmed by three people. I watched AD last night on Alessia bridge stuck and getting beaten like a drum by some EP small man players off to the side. If you wanna help AD become better as players individually, you need to host some sort of training guild. If not then start coordinating pugs in a group. I want AD to succeed and thrive, but at this point they would rather get farmed instead of get better.

Ruckly

If AD's problem is a matter of gaining Alessia bridge saturate it with lightening ballista. One person can operate 2-3 ballista. If that doesn't gain you the other side 20/20 lightening ballista will do minimal damage to the bridge and do a meteors worth of ground aoe dot damage to players while other people go around. From there flag keeps/outposts and secure the bridge for a quicker route.

zyk

Machete wrote: »

AD needs to be willing to listen and not just get the whole faction farmed by three people. I watched AD last night on Alessia bridge stuck and getting beaten like a drum by some EP small man players off to the side. If you wanna help AD become better as players individually, you need to host some sort of training guild. If not then start coordinating pugs in a group. I want AD to succeed and thrive, but at this point they would rather get farmed instead of get better.

Players need to recognize that AvA enthusiasts aren't born to a faction. The most casual players may feel bound to one faction, but most AvA enthusiasts choose which faction to play for because new characters are very easy to level.

If AD is more casual than other factions, that is the result of player choices, not deficiencies in AD Corporation's training methods because there is no AD Corporation.

In particular, the small and medium scale PVP communities are heavily tilted in favor of DC and EP and have an obvious preference for fighting AD randoms. Many are part of the same communities and are more likely to hang out than fight when they encounter each other open world.

It's funny how we can recognize that randoms stand no chance in BGs versus premade groups, but AvA players are still obsessed with numbers. Fighting 2-4x your numbers of casual randoms with organized groups in meta builds is not impressive and never really was.

_Crow

trust me when I say this, form a Zerg, stay positive and upbeat in raid, and push objectives while doing more fun things in between! And move around the map fast, stay in the action, and be realistic about what your group can accomplish. If you wipe at something, go do something completely different. Get the trust of your pugs, and then you will have something pretty Damn amazing going on 😉.

My biggest piece of advice is mute ALL zone generals that don't run their own groups, and just listen to the masses and run them in a raid!

Elong

_Crow wrote: »

trust me when I say this, form a Zerg, stay positive and upbeat in raid, and push objectives while doing more fun things in between! And move around the map fast, stay in the action, and be realistic about what your group can accomplish. If you wipe at something, go do something completely different. Get the trust of your pugs, and then you will have something pretty Damn amazing going on 😉.

My biggest piece of advice is mute ALL zone generals that don't run their own groups, and just listen to the masses and run them in a raid!

You're becoming a meme.

_Crow

Elong wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

trust me when I say this, form a Zerg, stay positive and upbeat in raid, and push objectives while doing more fun things in between! And move around the map fast, stay in the action, and be realistic about what your group can accomplish. If you wipe at something, go do something completely different. Get the trust of your pugs, and then you will have something pretty Damn amazing going on 😉.

My biggest piece of advice is mute ALL zone generals that don't run their own groups, and just listen to the masses and run them in a raid!

You're becoming a meme.

This is a perfect example of what I mean. Toxic players like this is what you should avoid and you and your faction will be MUCH better off. EP is and they are rolling right now! 😊

NBrookus

On AD the other night, all AD did was argue in zone. Worse than DC, and that's saying something. And the AD pug problem is one guy will be fighting 5 or 6 while there are 8 bow nightblades in stealth just watching.

To be fair, DC has been pushing Bleakers/Chal so hard lately because there's a DC scroll in Arrius and Chal is needed to dethrone. It doesn't explain all the other times DC pushes that corridor west so hard, but it DOES make sense this month.

Marcus684

Whenever I see someone praise DC’s strategic sense, I just have to laugh. We have some guild groups and pug wranglers that like to play the map, but we seem to have more that prefer to tower hump or farm AP at KC, and a good percentage of our soloers have zero interest in the score apparently, because they’ll endlessly mill around outside Chal killing, dying, and rezzing at the mine, all while AD holds Ash and is poking at Glade and Rayles. I don’t know if the other alliances are similar, but that’s the way I see DC lately, and it’s just gotten worse over the past few months.

Elong

_Crow wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

trust me when I say this, form a Zerg, stay positive and upbeat in raid, and push objectives while doing more fun things in between! And move around the map fast, stay in the action, and be realistic about what your group can accomplish. If you wipe at something, go do something completely different. Get the trust of your pugs, and then you will have something pretty Damn amazing going on 😉.

My biggest piece of advice is mute ALL zone generals that don't run their own groups, and just listen to the masses and run them in a raid!

You're becoming a meme.

This is a perfect example of what I mean. Toxic players like this is what you should avoid and you and your faction will be MUCH better off. EP is and they are rolling right now! 😊

Yep, confirmed meme.

Vapirko

No don’t train them! Then they’ll stop buying my infused Hawkeye bows for 50k.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

_Crow wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

trust me when I say this, form a Zerg, stay positive and upbeat in raid, and push objectives while doing more fun things in between! And move around the map fast, stay in the action, and be realistic about what your group can accomplish. If you wipe at something, go do something completely different. Get the trust of your pugs, and then you will have something pretty Damn amazing going on 😉.

My biggest piece of advice is mute ALL zone generals that don't run their own groups, and just listen to the masses and run them in a raid!

You're becoming a meme.

This is a perfect example of what I mean. Toxic players like this is what you should avoid and you and your faction will be MUCH better off. EP is and they are rolling right now! 😊

they do zerg every day and still get wrected, i feel like AD needs a Buff somehow because 90 percent of the faction is merely AP and 1vX footage.

WuffyCerulei

I do feel bad that AD has less population than EP or DC, but you guys can put up a fight without having to rely solely on numbers. I can’t say what pugs should do, as I mainly solo, but definitely just having more groups spread throughout the day helps.

Thoragaal

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

The problem with ad pugs is that they are way to squishy to survive. Doesn’t matter if you have 24 of them, the minute they fight against any real pvp group they get crushed in seconds. They are literally walking ap.

I dunno why that is. It's the same situation for PC/EU/Vivec.
I wonder if it's because of pve-reasons?
Like, for a veeery long time, high elf was the only option to go for if you wanted to play anything magica orriented, except for MagDK's (you'd make a dark elf). Khajiit and Bosmer were the best races (iirc) for all types of stamina playstyles.
It should've created a disponentially large AD population for PvE when compared to the other factions.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

It's because AD's faction influencing players don't understand most game mechanics and prefer to blame cheating or zergs for simple failings.

AD on eu is different as they have had no competitors for the campaign due to the 2 years of morning cap. It used to be a very different faction back in the banana squad / swat/ kos / edc days.

technohic

Marcus684 wrote: »

Whenever I see someone praise DC’s strategic sense, I just have to laugh. We have some guild groups and pug wranglers that like to play the map, but we seem to have more that prefer to tower hump or farm AP at KC, and a good percentage of our soloers have zero interest in the score apparently, because they’ll endlessly mill around outside Chal killing, dying, and rezzing at the mine, all while AD holds Ash and is poking at Glade and Rayles. I don’t know if the other alliances are similar, but that’s the way I see DC lately, and it’s just gotten worse over the past few months.

Think there is a lack of leadership and direction for the most part. I run in a 2-5 man group usually and our goal is generally to stay away from ball groups when we know where they are and often times; that means chasing the resource flippers around which I am not any more a fan of really. At least half the time; a ton of pugs show up to chase them around the tower, maybe because they don't want to be farmed by ball groups, but also because our zone chat "generals" are busy arguing about where to go and how to attack or not attack the ball groups.

If a guild like LOM (as an example) isnt on; there is a lack of direction or ability to do much. I mean at times; I have zerg surfed when I am alone but you dont even see crossed swords very long these days to even show up for that.

HaroniNDeorum

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

Well the title says it all, ap has hit hard times on Vivec, they are getting farmed at an unsustainable rate and are bleeding pop. The only time when ap on vivec can even stand a chance is when Omni is online, this isn’t right that one guild has to carry an entire faction!we have to rally, it doesn’t matter who’s good or bad, if the queen loses ,we all lose! But most importantly.......... we have to find a way to train the ap pugs(near impossible task).How can we train the dominion pugs to be as strong as ep or dc pugs?

Hey wow i feel ignored and leftover :c