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Can DK's get a sustain buff PLS

Hixtory
Hixtory
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Hey ZOS, I know you tried to implement some improvements to DK's sustain in the change implemented to Combustion but this wasn't enough, can we get some rework of a skill like templars and get the sustain buff throught the use of a skill and not based on applying the burning to a target.

Before anyone says anything, Battleroar is not enough either to sustain a full rotation and having to use Equilibrium might be risky in trials.

Discuss...


  • Sparr0w
    Sparr0w
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    All mag could do with a sustain boost... Stam are in a really good place but mag not so much.
    @Sparr0w so I get the notification
    Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+
    DD: All Mag + Stam
    Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
    Tank: NB | DK | Warden
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    PC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
    DD: All Mag + Stam
    Heal: Templar | Sorc
    Tank: DK | NB
    Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS
  • Hixtory
    Hixtory
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    Sparr0w wrote: »
    All mag could do with a sustain boost... Stam are in a really good place but mag not so much.

    Stam was in a good place when you had a heavy attack rotation, is not the case if you want good DPS results right now. It will mean a DPS loss to actually have to do HA in your rotation.

    But we agree magicka is worst in all cases (HA in fire staff is crap)
  • Taleof2Cities
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    Hixtory wrote: »

    Stam was in a good place when you had a heavy attack rotation, is not the case if you want good DPS results right now. It will mean a DPS loss to actually have to do HA in your rotation.

    But we agree magicka is worst in all cases (HA in fire staff is crap)

    That’s precisely the way the game should be balanced shouldn’t it?

    If you want more DPS then you build for it ... at the expense of having less sustain. Build for more sustain and you have less burst and less overall DPS.

    I play a lot of magicka characters and the most difficult sustain changes to overcome were in June 2017 when the Morrowind patch dropped.

    Compared to Morrowind, sustain changes in the Wolfhunter and Murkmire patches have not been quite as large ... other than the nerfs to major expedition which is not the focus of this thread.

    In other words, asking for improvements to sustain (magicka or stamina) is likely more of a red flag on your chatacter’s build ... than a problem with the game itself.

    You can’t wear Mother’s Sorrow + Julianos (or Relequen + another DPS set) and then ask the game for a handout in the form of more sustain.

    Sustain is fine in the game as long as you build for it in gear, CP, provisioning food or drink, enchantments, or by being a vampire or werewolf.

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on December 11, 2018 6:09PM
  • ccmedaddy
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    magDK sustain feels fine to me. I play all mag classes and the only class that feels awful to use due to poor sustain is the magsorc, at least in PvE.
  • WaltherCarraway
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    with charged trait inferno staff and any weapon slotted with stam poison, combustion equals to 5/6 of bloodthorn set.
    Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.
  • John_Falstaff
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    @Taleof2Cities , nope. It would have been fine if all classes had to build for sustain to maximize damage, but as things stand now, some do, some don't. When sustain was plentiful, one couldn't feel imbalances, since everyone had enough; now, some classes easily run blue food and light attack rotation, others have to invest in regen and heavy attacks.

    But the worst thing I see about DK sustain is that it's nailed with rusty nails to Battle Roar passive. This ugly idea wasn't looking as bad a while ago when game actually had place for 'stand your ground' class. Content design have changed though, there's no more place for such ideology. It's atrocious, being penalized in sustain for not dropping ultimate on cooldown (instead of dropping it when it actually makes sense to drop). A bunch of adds spawn in a short while, so it makes sense to drop ultimate on them? Tough luck, DK, no option to hold out, drop ultimate or run dry.
    Edited by John_Falstaff on December 13, 2018 4:25PM
  • Narvuntien
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    I seem to be doing okay in practice, Its really hard on a target skeleton but in trials, there is worms and orbs and off balance and I am doing okay.

    I feel like it is very close, so I think there just needs to be a very small change if anything.
  • Ragnarock41
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    as far as PvE is concerned stamDk sustain feels fine after the recent buffs. Its not the best, but not the worst either.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 13, 2018 5:32PM
  • Hixtory
    Hixtory
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    Hixtory wrote: »

    Stam was in a good place when you had a heavy attack rotation, is not the case if you want good DPS results right now. It will mean a DPS loss to actually have to do HA in your rotation.

    But we agree magicka is worst in all cases (HA in fire staff is crap)

    That’s precisely the way the game should be balanced shouldn’t it?

    If you want more DPS then you build for it ... at the expense of having less sustain. Build for more sustain and you have less burst and less overall DPS.

    I play a lot of magicka characters and the most difficult sustain changes to overcome were in June 2017 when the Morrowind patch dropped.

    Compared to Morrowind, sustain changes in the Wolfhunter and Murkmire patches have not been quite as large ... other than the nerfs to major expedition which is not the focus of this thread.

    In other words, asking for improvements to sustain (magicka or stamina) is likely more of a red flag on your chatacter’s build ... than a problem with the game itself.

    You can’t wear Mother’s Sorrow + Julianos (or Relequen + another DPS set) and then ask the game for a handout in the form of more sustain.

    Sustain is fine in the game as long as you build for it in gear, CP, provisioning food or drink, enchantments, or by being a vampire or werewolf.

    So by your logic the NB, Templars and Warden should get a sustain nerf so we all get crappy sustain. Instead of requesting a buff to the other 2 classes, tbis post is specifically for DK's but Sorc also have no way to sustain Non-Heavy attack rotations.

  • Wuuffyy
    Wuuffyy
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    Sparr0w wrote: »
    All mag could do with a sustain boost... Stam are in a really good place but mag not so much.

    Mag needs a fat sustain nerf actually
    Wuuffyy,
    WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
    ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
    -DM for questions
  • XIIICaesar
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    I agree with @Taleof2Cities It's all in how/what you build for. It's balanced as is. Balance is not every class had no sustain issues & Max DPS or*insert thought here*. That's every class is equal & the same with nothing unique between them other than ability names & animations. Balance is every class is unique & is a question of pros & cons. Battle Roar passive is extremely overpowered in a DK. I have a DK tank, StamDK & a MagDK. I've got a StamPlar, StamBlade, StamSorc & had a MagSorc. All of them had differences in the way they played both sustain & DPS. Ones that had more sustain issues but inherent DPS I built more for sustain to balance it out & vice-versa. If you want all classes to not have sustain issues, have high DPS, etc. What's the point then of even having choices for classes if they're all the same? Have the same sustain, the same DPS & just different animation/name for abilities? Why even have class choices if all of them were to become identical & none of them had any benefits or drawbacks that other classes didn't? Either build for more sustain in your build with some stamina recovery glyphs or a set like Hircines Veneer from Selene Web or VO from HRC or don't complain you WANT NOT NEED a sustain buff.
  • John_Falstaff
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    XIIICaesar wrote: »
    Battle Roar passive is extremely overpowered in a DK.

    So as StamDK, how do you enjoy having to drop ultimate as soon as it's ready and not when it makes sense to drop it just to keep your sustain? Battle Roar is an example of hideous design that overloads ultimate with a completely unrelated function; good for tanks, bad for everything else.
  • TimeDazzler
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    Give stamina version of ele drain please. Ele drain is equivalent to 600 Magicka regen. Slot it.
    PC NA
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  • Hixtory
    Hixtory
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    Cries wrote: »
    Give stamina version of ele drain please. Ele drain is equivalent to 600 Magicka regen. Slot it.

    The HA in stamina is easier to do, and faster, but yeah ele drain should be the same for both resources. I support this
  • Onefrkncrzypope
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    What I have found is that the classes that are struggling are stuggling with the same issue in pve dps areas(there is also some transfer to PvP). Keeping spell symmetry out of the equation, there are two classes that have always struggled almost in unisen with the three same problems since Morrowind to > ha nerf > summerset.

    Both Dks and sorcs have been top dog before but there are some issues that haven't been addressed.
    Pve based:
    In this current meta all specs lack active unintrusive sustain skills. i.e siphon strikes, rune focus and jelly.
    The Stam have no spammable that they can sustain
    The mag have no true execute (scales with missing health) Stam only has P.I.
    Their passives and utility brought is out of date.

    Both sorcs and dks needs a true execute and a sustain buff.

    Dks need utilities that will make them wanted in group.(maybe an engulfing buff to scale with Max mag.[don't really want it because then bye bye dks tanks.])

    stamDK and Stam Sorc need a true non clunky spammable that they can sustain.
    Above sentence obviously keeps crushing weapon off that list.... Gross

    You can say they are doing fine and hitting the same and yada yada about the rending claw spam rotos but we know that the struggle of still preforming subpar isn't worth it.

    I can basically button mash a nightblade over 50k without any side buffs or bubbles.

    You can't really do the same with dks or sorcs.
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    If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....
  • LonePirate
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    A sustain buff? How about DK melee skills buffed to output the same damage as melee weapon skills?
  • Elusiin
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    DKs already can already negate all ranged damage and you want more??
  • Ragnarock41
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    DKs already can already negate all ranged damage and you want more??

    Whats the matter? Mad cause your magblade cant two shot pew pew everything?
  • Matthros
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    DKs already can already negate all ranged damage and you want more??

    This discussion is about sustain and not about wings. And Sorcs were also brought up about needing more sustain so it’s not just DKs.
  • MashmalloMan
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    DKs already can already negate all ranged damage and you want more??

    Whats the matter? Mad cause your magblade cant two shot pew pew everything?
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/452700/what-changes-should-be-made-to-reflective-scales-to-make-the-ability-balanced/p1
    I'd say this shows his blatant bias..
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 18, 2019 11:50PM
    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

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    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    DKs already can already negate all ranged damage and you want more??

    Whats the matter? Mad cause your magblade cant two shot pew pew everything?
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/452700/what-changes-should-be-made-to-reflective-scales-to-make-the-ability-balanced/p1
    I'd say this shows his blatant bias..

    What these people don't realize is that Dks don't have a choice in this matter. Both mag and stam, but especially stam, because mag regen is very tough on stamDK, and I'm a stamina DK main. From my perspective running wing is not a choice, its a requirement to survive. Sorcs and nightblades have the freedom of choosing where they fight, how they fight, and bow users can dodge roll to gain major expedition, so a bow ganker which is %99.9 chance a nightblade, will have all the tools needed to avoid a Dk encounter. Nerfing wings might actually destroy magDk completely for open world because they rely on that too much to initiate fights, or get away from fights, by literally walking back spamming wings, yes.

    It won't be as bad for stamDk, because their crutch was blocking , which is already nerfed in a billion different ways.

    Though this post is not even about wings, this post is about Dk sustain, which I think is in a more healthier spot for PvE(redguard dk can sustain on blue food , though magDk is a different story), and meanwhile for PvP stamina Dks used to be addicted to speed pots for sustain and utility , now we are addicted to tri-pots for sustain and utility , because wing spam is expensive and the speed is no longer there, so you need wings without running out of blue juice, and Its not like magicka sustain was easy before.

    So Dk sustain is not a fully fixed problem. Dks have too high magicka costs and stamDks feel that very heavily. And this is a major problem with the class design, you have a stamina class that has to built too much into magicka pool and magicka regen to have utility, otherwise it becomes a lesser stamsorc.(and while stamsorc also needs to invest into magicka recovery, its not as critical for them because their passive utility, bound armaments and crit surge, function without wasting magicka, and hurricane also costs stam) Its a PvP specific problem that wrobel created by completely destroying the stamina scaling on helping hands/battle roar.

    So the result is a class that tried to come out on top by using wings, petrify,fragmented shield. Basically a lesser magDk is what sDk now is. Thankfully tripots exist so the class has something to crutch on :neutral:
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 19, 2019 1:55AM
  • Hixtory
    Hixtory
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    DKs already can already negate all ranged damage and you want more??

    So you are against any buffs to DK cause you can overcome a single skill, and you even make a poll with a choice against what you want with completely subjective thinking

    "Do not change the ability, even if it is an unbalanced."

    LMAO you are a joke
  • Juhasow
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    Cries wrote: »
    Give stamina version of ele drain please. Ele drain is equivalent to 600 Magicka regen. Slot it.

    You know the thing is stamina have all abilities 15% cheaper then magicka counterparts so they dont even have to slot anything to have same sustain as magicka builds with drain.

    Also as for the main topic sustain on dk both mag and stam is fine.
    Edited by Juhasow on January 19, 2019 12:51PM
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