Master Axe bleed in no CP a problem

  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    hate to tell you not everyone runs master dw, and those that do sacrifice either a 5pc or a monster set so it's pretty balanced imo. I havent run master dw in about 4 patches and every patch I try it.

    l2p

    Hate to tell You but back bars exist. You can run master dual wield + 5pc set + 5 pc set + 2pc monster set. You can slot master dual wield on back bar and have one 5pc bonus from other set on front bar or vice versa in any weapon combinations since two handed weapons were changed to count as 2 items. So no sacrifices just pure benefits since master dual wield dmg increase is comparable to whole 5 pc set.

    L2Theorycraft

    I know how builds work champ, Ive ran that exact setup before. I run similar build setup on different toons. But personally I prefer DW front over 2H front and there are a lot of people that are in a similar boat. I know that the master bleed is strong, but what Im saying is its not as common as the OP is suggesting.

    In that case You know You've lied when You said that wearing master dual wield requires sacrifices.
  • SupremeRissole
    SupremeRissole
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    hate to tell you not everyone runs master dw, and those that do sacrifice either a 5pc or a monster set so it's pretty balanced imo. I havent run master dw in about 4 patches and every patch I try it.

    l2p

    Hate to tell You but back bars exist. You can run master dual wield + 5pc set + 5 pc set + 2pc monster set. You can slot master dual wield on back bar and have one 5pc bonus from other set on front bar or vice versa in any weapon combinations since two handed weapons were changed to count as 2 items. So no sacrifices just pure benefits since master dual wield dmg increase is comparable to whole 5 pc set.

    L2Theorycraft

    I know how builds work champ, Ive ran that exact setup before. I run similar build setup on different toons. But personally I prefer DW front over 2H front and there are a lot of people that are in a similar boat. I know that the master bleed is strong, but what Im saying is its not as common as the OP is suggesting.

    In that case You know You've lied when You said that wearing master dual wield requires sacrifices.

    I means sacrificing running DW front bar OR running 2 5pcs and a monster set on the front bar.
  • idk
    idk
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    hesobad wrote: »
    When 90% of stam builds run master axes due to the insanely high bleed damage in no CP we have a problem.

    I am not arguing one way or another on the overall topic but I hope you are aware Zos can see past false numbers we present in the forums. They can see the actual frequency of use of specific weapons and it is probably far from 90%. Granted, I realize the number was probably presented more for a dramatic start to the OP.
    Really, idk
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    hate to tell you not everyone runs master dw, and those that do sacrifice either a 5pc or a monster set so it's pretty balanced imo. I havent run master dw in about 4 patches and every patch I try it.

    l2p

    Hate to tell You but back bars exist. You can run master dual wield + 5pc set + 5 pc set + 2pc monster set. You can slot master dual wield on back bar and have one 5pc bonus from other set on front bar or vice versa in any weapon combinations since two handed weapons were changed to count as 2 items. So no sacrifices just pure benefits since master dual wield dmg increase is comparable to whole 5 pc set.

    L2Theorycraft

    I know how builds work champ, Ive ran that exact setup before. I run similar build setup on different toons. But personally I prefer DW front over 2H front and there are a lot of people that are in a similar boat. I know that the master bleed is strong, but what Im saying is its not as common as the OP is suggesting.

    In that case You know You've lied when You said that wearing master dual wield requires sacrifices.

    I means sacrificing running DW front bar OR running 2 5pcs and a monster set on the front bar.

    Which is not a sacrifice. Changing from 5/5/2 to 5/5/2/2 is an improvement not sacrifice.

    Edited by Juhasow on January 2, 2019 1:06AM
  • NyassaV
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    Bleeds have always been on the side of over-preforming
    i am stronk woman
    can Dunmer have more fire resist than Breton plz?
    I record thingies for fun and for info
    https://youtube.com/channel/UC0WuLVnsW177WKkKcvNuuYA
  • barshemm
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    While I don't have master axes, I run a bleed build on my Stam sorc with double dot poisons on a vma axe and torug front bar. Would easily slot master axes on that build so saying you're giving up anything for that is kind of bs.

    I also run ww taking advantage of the torug on that build.

    The advantage of that build is I can consistently pressure letting me dictate the fight and win more 1v1 situations with it.

    That said though, my DC stamina warden with fury/ww hide/tk over all is way better at killing. Tankier than my dot load Stam sorc proccing crit surge and insane burst. The only reason I have more success with the Stam sorc is I play it more and the play style is more forgiving. It's easier to over extend on a high burst build and easier for the enemy to burst heal back up.

    I think the pressure aspect is what makes the master dw so much easier to play. The high burst from a warden relies on hitting that sub assault. More skill required.

    At the end of the day though, I'd rather fight someone with master weapons than a good warden, dk running corrosive armor or a good night blade.
  • Durham
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    Certain kinds of builds are on the rise on high MMR bg's I observed while mainly pugging.

    1.Apply and forget builds (one of OP's complaint include this )
    2.Sloads/ viper / shieldbreaker
    3.Torug's abuse starring werewolves and some wardens
    4. Draining shot builds. Who can get in 2 snipes before the unbreakable cc(10x worse than broken rune cage). But this is a L2P issue as it is an intended nightblade buff.
    5. Overuse of oblivion enchants

    Magika classes continue to be irrelevant apart from the odd extraordinary player. Their sole purpose last patch was to fuel my magika bar. Too bad they dont stick around anymore.

    In a weird way the game is more balanced than ever before. Everyone is using the same sets right ?

    This is not a huge issue on CP campaigns but on No its a big issue ... So ZOS created 2 PVPs now it cant balance both ... GO figure!

    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVE Eternal Destiny
  • TheYKcid
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    Running Master's DW absolutely requires sacrifices—it's disingenuous to claim otherwise.

    Sure, you can run the 2pc Master's backbar, leaving a full 5/5/2 frontbar. But that means getting shoehorned into 2H on the frontbar, at the opportunity cost of a lot of raw stats due to lacking the DW passives & offhand trait. You also lose access to spin2win on your mainbar which is pretty significant too.

    EDIT: wanted to add that a frontbar-only set means you lose stats (and thus healing power) on your backbar, unless it's something that carries-over like Veiled/Ravager, which is by no means reliable especially when you're forced onto the defensive.

    Some people work around this by using a carry-over set (eg. Clever Alch) as a 2H backbar, with Master's DW as front. But this comes with the drawback of bad uptime and the loss of the 4pc bonus while on the mainbar.

    Based on my recaps, DW with pure 5/5/2 is noticeably more common than Master's DW right now, and no less if not more effective.

    Personally, for solo openworld, I find that 2H/bow (Master's bow backbar) is far more versatile than any DW setup at the moment, and I haven't touched my Master's axes in ages.
    Edited by TheYKcid on January 6, 2019 12:05PM
    PC/NA__Daggerfall Covenant__Vivec
    Karmic-Chameleon — Argonian Stamblade
    Kaladin Chalhoub — Redguard Stamblade
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    .
  • Crixus8000
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    Juhasow wrote: »

    Which is not a sacrifice. Changing from 5/5/2 to 5/5/2/2 is an improvement not sacrifice.

    This^

    Master dw are overpowered. Anytime I plan a build it would always be much, much better by adding them. And they give so much options too since they offer insane damage you can choose to go for more sustain/survivability. You sacrifice nothing for them on a good build and gain so much.
  • Duukar
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    hesobad wrote: »
    Mureel wrote: »
    This is now officially a Nerf Sorc thread.

    No, all classes are using Master Axes not just sorcs. Sorcs are far less powerful than last patch and still lack a good spamable. Crushing weapon kind of your only option with dizzying swing being so unreliable. Master axe bleeds does fill the gap, MA makes them seem OP because it out performs anything else you could use. MA bleeds with high execute damage from Steel Tornado and implosion procs is what makes good stam sorcs these days. If it wasn't for Master Axes, sorcs would need a buff.


    1v1 a NB with master axes should kill any stam sorc everytime due to how easily and how often they can get major defile on their opponent. Sorcs are not the issue, Master Axe bleed damage is the issue

    Way to miss the joke.
  • Frooke
    Frooke
    Soul Shriven
    The problem is not the Master Axe itself, Rending Slashes is a strong ability, It can be a critical damage and ignores 100% mitigation, combined with axe bleed makes it powerful. Master Axe bleed is just a bit worth than a complete 7th legion for example, and it is too painful and boring to earn. The vDSA for the right drop takes a lot of time and patience, just a small % of players should be using that.

    Another nerf in this set would make it useless, just my opinion, there is another important things to concern about, like asylum bow doing HK with the right combo in BGs

    Dots are the last resource for some staminas, don't mess with that plz, play with a 1.2k HP recovery and you won't have problem with bleeds :wink:
  • MaxJrFTW
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    TheYKcid wrote: »
    Running Master's DW absolutely requires sacrifices—it's disingenuous to claim otherwise

    Yeah im sure the people doing over 2k dmg per tick with a dot consider it a huge sacrifice.

    There are plenty of solid back bar sets. No sacrifice is made when you run master dw. You melt people by just applying a single dot.
    Edited by MaxJrFTW on January 10, 2019 5:19AM
  • TheYKcid
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    They only add 675 damage per tick (1350 halved by Battlespirit), +/- a little due to %-based damage boosts and mitigation sources. So the guys hitting you with 2k+ rendings would've done 1.5k+ even without Stinging Slashes (if we're talking non-crit values), and all other things being equal. In a realistic setting, it would be notably more than 1.5k, since they'd be applying it on a frontbar DW with proper 5/5/2 and better base stats than an offbar setup.

    Also note that Rending ticks at a rate of every 2 seconds, unlike some other DoTs, so the extra 675 per tick only translates into a DPS boost of 338 (plus maybe 15% including for crits).

    For perspective, here's a calculator for how much DPS the Viper set outputs (yes, I know a 2pc set isn't comparable to a 5pc one; the idea is to provide a gauge for what 338 DPS "feels" like in practice).
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TfyCmjIFksysDkNlEV_mx3WxbkYI07HOO6b85Y_qs4Q/edit#gid=1200862223

    Viper, under a range of realistic parameters in a CP environment, deals around the ballpark of 500+ DPS, much more than Master's DW. Yet no one regards it as a particularly gamebreaking set.

    I'm also not sold on the fact that there are any solid backbar sets for stam DPS aside from Clever Alch.
    Edited by TheYKcid on January 10, 2019 12:55PM
    PC/NA__Daggerfall Covenant__Vivec
    Karmic-Chameleon — Argonian Stamblade
    Kaladin Chalhoub — Redguard Stamblade
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    .
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