Master Axe bleed in no CP a problem

hesobad

When 90% of stam builds run master axes due to the insanely high bleed damage in no CP we have a problem. ZOS please look into toning down the bleed damage from this set in no CP pvp. Not much can be done about this damage once it is applied, and due to the Slaughter passive; Rending slashes and Steel Tornado are just hitting way too hard in no CP. Should be addressed. I'm sure people will be upset about this, but needs to be done. Nerfing That passive and lowering damage on master axe bleeds will allow more diverse builds to emerge.

ZarkingFrued

Just tired of nerfs to every single skill. You think this is to powerful, I can assure you there are plenty who think whatever you run is to powerful. Cant we all just agree that snipe is what really sucks 😂.

hesobad

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Just tired of nerfs to every single skill. You think this is to powerful, I can assure you there are plenty who think whatever you run is to powerful. Cant we all just agree that snipe is what really sucks 😂.

If a bleed could be purged, I would not have made this post at all. Currently a bleed can not be purged and ignores mitigation, making it extremely powerful in no CP. Couple that damage with the Slaughter passive, and master axe bleeds are just performing so much higher than any other combo. Nearly all of my kills come from bleeds when I use master axes, the DoT damage is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Steel Tornado is a double execute ability! It has increased damage in the skill itself AND THAN another increase in damage from Slaughter. This is why everyone uses master axes in bgs, it's way too strong. You don't have to agree, but just look at your combat logs next time you play a battleground, you'll see

Mureel

This is now officially a Nerf Sorc thread.

hesobad

hesobad wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Just tired of nerfs to every single skill. You think this is to powerful, I can assure you there are plenty who think whatever you run is to powerful. Cant we all just agree that snipe is what really sucks 😂.

If a bleed could be purged, I would not have made this post at all. Currently a bleed can not be purged and ignores mitigation, making it extremely powerful in no CP. Couple that damage with the Slaughter passive, and master axe bleeds are just performing so much higher than any other combo. Nearly all of my kills come from bleeds when I use master axes, the DoT damage is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Steel Tornado is a double execute ability! It has increased damage in the skill itself AND THAN another increase in damage from Slaughter. This is why everyone uses master axes in bgs, it's way too strong. You don't have to agree, but just look at your combat logs next time you play a battleground, you'll see.


Also I wouldn't say lethal arrow is a large issue. If I see someone casting that, I'm going to gap close and kill them every time, defile can be purged so not a huge issue unless you don't have a purge or can't gap close

hesobad

Mureel wrote: »

This is now officially a Nerf Sorc thread.

No, all classes are using Master Axes not just sorcs. Sorcs are far less powerful than last patch and still lack a good spamable. Crushing weapon kind of your only option with dizzying swing being so unreliable. Master axe bleeds does fill the gap, MA makes them seem OP because it out performs anything else you could use. MA bleeds with high execute damage from Steel Tornado and implosion procs is what makes good stam sorcs these days. If it wasn't for Master Axes, sorcs would need a buff.


1v1 a NB with master axes should kill any stam sorc everytime due to how easily and how often they can get major defile on their opponent. Sorcs are not the issue, Master Axe bleed damage is the issue

ChunkyCat

Werewolf bleed with infused torugs is wayyy more of a problem than a weapon set that’s already been nerfed.

MaxJrFTW

It actually is, and i don't have the weapons because i can't even find people to do vDSA. Go ahead and nerf it, it doesn't affect me at all.

del9

The OP makes a post about everything that kills him and I do not condone it.

I agree that bleeds are very powerful in no-cp. But not overpowered. They provide counterplay to certain tanky healy builds- especially magwardens, who are the current meta in BGs. So nothing should be touched here.

L2P Issue

DivineFirstYOLO

hesobad wrote: »

If a bleed could be purged, I would not have made this post at all. Currently a bleed can not be purged and ignores mitigation, making it extremely powerful in no CP. Couple that damage with the Slaughter passive, and master axe bleeds are just performing so much higher than any other combo.

Bleeds cannot be purged? What? Is something broken?

hesobad wrote: »

1v1 a NB with master axes should kill any stam sorc everytime due to how easily and how often they can get major defile on their opponent. Sorcs are not the issue, Master Axe bleed damage is the issue

In that case NBs are the issue. Major defile + 20% more damage in combination with master DW. It's the easiest most cheesy setup you can play at the moment.

brandonv516

If bleeds worked as a percentage on certain types of armor, we'd see less people running heavy armor and less people running bleeds. That's my opinion.

Bleeds on heavy armor 100% current damage
Bleeds on medium armor 75% current damage
Bleeds on light armor 50% current damage

wheem_ESO

I'm afraid I have to disagree with @del9 on this one - bleed damage is way too high right now. Part of the issue is Master Dual Wield, but it's also the fact that the proc'd bleeds from DW and 2h (and most Stam builds now use both) are so powerful. Proc'd DOTs shouldn't be comparable to my reflectable and slow-moving class DOT, even when I double cast it for the +50% damage (and bleeds are probably better against high armor targets). The incoming damage I experience from Stamina builds vs what I get from Magicka builds is just night and day, and it's largely due to bleeds.

Emma_Overload

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I'm afraid I have to disagree with @del9 on this one - bleed damage is way too high right now. Part of the issue is Master Dual Wield, but it's also the fact that the proc'd bleeds from DW and 2h (and most Stam builds now use both) are so powerful. Proc'd DOTs shouldn't be comparable to my reflectable and slow-moving class DOT, even when I double cast it for the +50% damage (and bleeds are probably better against high armor targets). The incoming damage I experience from Stamina builds vs what I get from Magicka builds is just night and day, and it's largely due to bleeds.

Agreed. This wouldn't be such a big issue if EVERYBODY had access to bleeds, but we don't. Bleeds need to be toned down or magicka builds need to be offered a similar mechanic.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GET GUD OR GET REKT!

PhoenixGrey

Certain kinds of builds are on the rise on high MMR bg's I observed while mainly pugging.

1.Apply and forget builds (one of OP's complaint include this )
2.Sloads/ viper / shieldbreaker
3.Torug's abuse starring werewolves and some wardens
4. Draining shot builds. Who can get in 2 snipes before the unbreakable cc(10x worse than broken rune cage). But this is a L2P issue as it is an intended nightblade buff.
5. Overuse of oblivion enchants

Magika classes continue to be irrelevant apart from the odd extraordinary player. Their sole purpose last patch was to fuel my magika bar. Too bad they dont stick around anymore.

In a weird way the game is more balanced than ever before. Everyone is using the same sets right ?

THE_BIG_BOSS

Its also a problem in CP, nerf this *** bleeds they are too OP

Zeromaz

Emma_Overload wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I'm afraid I have to disagree with @del9 on this one - bleed damage is way too high right now. Part of the issue is Master Dual Wield, but it's also the fact that the proc'd bleeds from DW and 2h (and most Stam builds now use both) are so powerful. Proc'd DOTs shouldn't be comparable to my reflectable and slow-moving class DOT, even when I double cast it for the +50% damage (and bleeds are probably better against high armor targets). The incoming damage I experience from Stamina builds vs what I get from Magicka builds is just night and day, and it's largely due to bleeds.

Agreed. This wouldn't be such a big issue if EVERYBODY had access to bleeds, but we don't. Bleeds need to be toned down or magicka builds need to be offered a similar mechanic.

Sure. Let us get stam bubbles too

Juhasow

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Werewolf bleed with infused torugs is wayyy more of a problem than a weapon set that’s already been nerfed.

"already been nerfed" You say ? So when 1st set is getting buffed from 516 dmg to 1,5k dmg plus recives option to have weapons different then just daggers and then that 1,5k dmg is lowered to 1,35k You call it a nerf ? This set was buffed so strong that now they could cut in in half and it still would be stronger then it was initially.

Juhasow

Master dual wield have 2 issues
1. Damage is applied as part of ability not as separate proc thus it can crit.
2. Since it's part of the ability not separate proc then that set works with all dual wield passives like Ruffian or Slaughter.

Those 2 things cause master dual wield bleed portion of dmg to be 70-80% dmg of base Twin Slashes dmg on heavily offensive setups and 80%+ on setups with lower dmg stats which basicly makes it 1 additional bleed ability just for the cost of wearing 2 items that can be even worn on back bar only. It's simply too effective for the cost of it. Solution would be to separating bleed from master dual wield from Twin Slashes bleed and making it proc that cannot crit and cannot be buffed by weapon passives sililar to maesltorm 2h proc for example. Each proc of twin slashes would apply 1,35k bleed dmg but as additional proc visible in combat log. It needs special treatment and more restricted rules of procing since it's a bleed dmg.

Undefwun

People love to dump on bleeds but ridiculous burst damage is ok. I never understood that. What is the difference really, what is that annoys ppl about bleeds so much?

I don't like bows, like at all for pvp. Really really don't like them, like my ideal change to every bow skill is that they uppercut themselves for 50% of damage done on ability use for being a flop, but I don't make threads about it. Plenty bowtards spamming PI with their Master's Bow too btw.

You have more of a chance of healing through or being saved by a team mate from bleeds than insane burst combos.
Oh and I have to stay alive while a) applying my dots/bleeds and b) while they are ticking away, not like burst builds, kill and run along. Sub Assault -> DBoS -> execute ability is the current FOTM, no? Can actually take down a whole BG team if timed right.

Also any dot build has a hard counter class. Templars are a rough fight and the purify synergy is not my friend either. But that's taking the medicine with the sugar for the play style I picked.

I went with bleeds on the stam sorc because we don't have a good class spamable (never mind the recent nerfs), and my ping makes things a bit more difficult with things like Dizzy's, can be a rough go when I am on my Stam DK who uses Dizzy's. Aussie ping handing out Ls like candy.

Master axes are strong, but another nerf, while we have sets like Zaan's or Earthgore, hell naw.
Pressuring a team in BGS and dropping a DBoS and watching the whole team heal back to full on EG proc.
I hit a tower group with a cold fire treb the other day in Sotha, while they were on the top floor, no joke about 4-5 seperate EG procs could barely see them anymore under all the red mist. No one died even though I saw numbers like 8-9k tick. That is ok apparently, but my extra couple K damage over time... whoo boy better nerf that.

hesobad

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

GET GUD OR GET REKT!

Get MA weapons or get REKT

hesobad

del9 wrote: »

The OP makes a post about everything that kills him and I do not condone it.

I agree that bleeds are very powerful in no-cp. But not overpowered. They provide counterplay to certain tanky healy builds- especially magwardens, who are the current meta in BGs. So nothing should be touched here.

L2P Issue

Coming from the stam sorc who always running MA axes ^ don't get mad at me for calling out your BS

del9

hesobad wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

The OP makes a post about everything that kills him and I do not condone it.

I agree that bleeds are very powerful in no-cp. But not overpowered. They provide counterplay to certain tanky healy builds- especially magwardens, who are the current meta in BGs. So nothing should be touched here.

L2P Issue

Coming from the stam sorc who always running MA axes ^ don't get mad at me for calling out your BS

I’ve literally never equipped master DW on my stam sorc. I actually don’t even own a master axe LOL, only daggers. I run spriggans and 7Th Legion double barred. My friends know this and iI’ve posted what I run in multiple threads. I prefer setups like that and fury+7th double barred. Don’t need master dw to farm you

Nice try though

jroc699_burr

What build are you guys running with DW masters axes i honestly dont rekt with it but i main magika chars

SupremeRissole

hate to tell you not everyone runs master dw, and those that do sacrifice either a 5pc or a monster set so it's pretty balanced imo. I havent run master dw in about 4 patches and every patch I try it.

l2p

Koensol

SupremeRissole wrote: »

hate to tell you not everyone runs master dw, and those that do sacrifice either a 5pc or a monster set so it's pretty balanced imo. I havent run master dw in about 4 patches and every patch I try it.

l2p

"I don't even use it, so how can it be OP?"

Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us.

jhall03

90% of stam? No. People need to stop using "90 and 95% of ......" when crying for a nerf.

Truthfully, the % of stam that even use DW is not 90%. And of the DW users, 90% of them are not using masters.

These threads accomplish nothing but creating a place for forum users to debate their opinions.

kylewwefan

I would be more inclined to think %90 of the players won’t ever get Masters axes. So, to say %90 of players are using them, kind of blew my mind.

KingKayanto

They really aren't that common. You need to farm a really long grindy PvE man vs robot frustration simulator. PLUS You have no guarantee at all at EVER getting the weapons you look for....

Juhasow

SupremeRissole wrote: »

hate to tell you not everyone runs master dw, and those that do sacrifice either a 5pc or a monster set so it's pretty balanced imo. I havent run master dw in about 4 patches and every patch I try it.

l2p

Hate to tell You but back bars exist. You can run master dual wield + 5pc set + 5 pc set + 2pc monster set. You can slot master dual wield on back bar and have one 5pc bonus from other set on front bar or vice versa in any weapon combinations since two handed weapons were changed to count as 2 items. So no sacrifices just pure benefits since master dual wield dmg increase is comparable to whole 5 pc set.

L2Theorycraft

SupremeRissole

Juhasow wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

hate to tell you not everyone runs master dw, and those that do sacrifice either a 5pc or a monster set so it's pretty balanced imo. I havent run master dw in about 4 patches and every patch I try it.

l2p

Hate to tell You but back bars exist. You can run master dual wield + 5pc set + 5 pc set + 2pc monster set. You can slot master dual wield on back bar and have one 5pc bonus from other set on front bar or vice versa in any weapon combinations since two handed weapons were changed to count as 2 items. So no sacrifices just pure benefits since master dual wield dmg increase is comparable to whole 5 pc set.

L2Theorycraft

I know how builds work champ, Ive ran that exact setup before. I run similar build setup on different toons. But personally I prefer DW front over 2H front and there are a lot of people that are in a similar boat. I know that the master bleed is strong, but what Im saying is its not as common as the OP is suggesting.