PvP In Overland Zones

Zelos

Way to big for ZOS to do, we cant even get a playable cyrodiil yet:)

yodased

Sorry to pop bubble, but this is impossible given the current engine.

The way pvp works in cryodiil is by creating one large landmass that is constantly being updated.

This idea would have to bridge entire zones together, cyrodiil barely can handle the players now, in one zonre with bery few npcs.

Too bigof scope for this game without excluding old rigs and consoles.

Irylia

yodased wrote: »

Sorry to pop bubble, but this is impossible given the current engine.

The way pvp works in cryodiil is by creating one large landmass that is constantly being updated.

This idea would have to bridge entire zones together, cyrodiil barely can handle the players now, in one zonre with bery few npcs.

Too bigof scope for this game without excluding old rigs and consoles.

“Bridge entire zones together”
You mean like overland zones and how pve and casual questers enter a new zone?
When there are more overland zone players than those in cyro.

And the use of separate instances helps alleviate that strain by not having everyone in wayrest for their undaunted because they can also go mournhold/grahtwood.

Pvp players may have 60-80 in stormhaven during a conquest of that zone but 30 at the main keep and 5-15 at each of the 3 towns that need to be held your color in order to capture the main city.
Not only are you spreading players out and introducing less calculations to the server at once but you also have players pvp’ing In completely different overland zones simultaneously which means they are a loadscreen/instance away from the stormhaven battle.
Much like pvp in ic or cyro or delves.

yodased

All the players would need to be connected for it to work. How are you going to update people in greenshade that the gratwood keep is being attacked.

Cyrodiil is possible because its one connected landmass. When you are in a delve in pvp you are not being tracked by pvp metrics

Syhae

My ESO life won't be complete until I lay siege to Grahtwood and burn that tree down.

On a more serious note, Cyrodiil's landscape was already boring in comparison to what already exists in every single PvE zone, now it's just growing stale.

Irylia

yodased wrote: »

All the players would need to be connected for it to work. How are you going to update people in greenshade that the gratwood keep is being attacked.

Cyrodiil is possible because its one connected landmass. When you are in a delve in pvp you are not being tracked by pvp metrics

I can still see which keeps are burst while in ic.

But I can’t communicate with those in cyro.

What’s the difference between zones and ic/cyro

TBois

Seems you could just have all people flagged for PvP on the same server "phase" for an instance.

yodased

Irylia wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

All the players would need to be connected for it to work. How are you going to update people in greenshade that the gratwood keep is being attacked.

Cyrodiil is possible because its one connected landmass. When you are in a delve in pvp you are not being tracked by pvp metrics

I can still see which keeps are burst while in ic.

But I can’t communicate with those in cyro.

What’s the difference between zones and ic/cyro

Cyrodiil open world pushes announcements to all players flagged for that campaign no matter what, even in PvE you get certain notifications.

You can't communicate directly with cyrodiil from IC is because IC is a subzone of Cyrodiil. Just like when you are in a delve.

I'm not explaining this correctly, so what happens when you zone into cyro you are entered into a shard of a large zone that is populated by all players logged in. All activity within that zone are reported to every player constantly. When a balista hits the wall at dragonclaw, someone in the AD scroll gate will be updated with that information. When a flag is flipping in Vlast, the people sieging dragonclaw will be updated of that process as well.

What this suggestion would require is connected multiple zones into one large zone. So just like when you are in IC as a subzone, people in cyro are not updated, the people in greenshade would not be updated on whats happening within gratwood.

So what would have to happen is you could separate each overland zone into a pvp instance which is connected to anyone who is queued into that zone, but if you wanted greenshade and gratwood to share information like keeps being attacked, you would have to have them both in the same zone.

Also, what would you do about the hundreds of NPC and guards and mobs in these zones? Are they simply not there? Even if there is no bounty because there is no stealing in pvp, hitting a guard will trigger a non winnable fight.

It's just too complicated of an idea to be shoehorned into this system

TBois

yodased wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

All the players would need to be connected for it to work. How are you going to update people in greenshade that the gratwood keep is being attacked.

Cyrodiil is possible because its one connected landmass. When you are in a delve in pvp you are not being tracked by pvp metrics

I can still see which keeps are burst while in ic.

But I can’t communicate with those in cyro.

What’s the difference between zones and ic/cyro

Cyrodiil open world pushes announcements to all players flagged for that campaign no matter what, even in PvE you get certain notifications.

You can't communicate directly with cyrodiil from IC is because IC is a subzone of Cyrodiil. Just like when you are in a delve.

I'm not explaining this correctly, so what happens when you zone into cyro you are entered into a shard of a large zone that is populated by all players logged in. All activity within that zone are reported to every player constantly. When a balista hits the wall at dragonclaw, someone in the AD scroll gate will be updated with that information. When a flag is flipping in Vlast, the people sieging dragonclaw will be updated of that process as well.

What this suggestion would require is connected multiple zones into one large zone. So just like when you are in IC as a subzone, people in cyro are not updated, the people in greenshade would not be updated on whats happening within gratwood.

So what would have to happen is you could separate each overland zone into a pvp instance which is connected to anyone who is queued into that zone, but if you wanted greenshade and gratwood to share information like keeps being attacked, you would have to have them both in the same zone.

Also, what would you do about the hundreds of NPC and guards and mobs in these zones? Are they simply not there? Even if there is no bounty because there is no stealing in pvp, hitting a guard will trigger a non winnable fight.

It's just too complicated of an idea to be shoehorned into this system

but is it more complicated than fixing the lag in cyrodiil? we will probably never know, but I wonder.

Irylia

yodased wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

All the players would need to be connected for it to work. How are you going to update people in greenshade that the gratwood keep is being attacked.

Cyrodiil is possible because its one connected landmass. When you are in a delve in pvp you are not being tracked by pvp metrics

I can still see which keeps are burst while in ic.

But I can’t communicate with those in cyro.

What’s the difference between zones and ic/cyro

Cyrodiil open world pushes announcements to all players flagged for that campaign no matter what, even in PvE you get certain notifications.

You can't communicate directly with cyrodiil from IC is because IC is a subzone of Cyrodiil. Just like when you are in a delve.

I'm not explaining this correctly, so what happens when you zone into cyro you are entered into a shard of a large zone that is populated by all players logged in. All activity within that zone are reported to every player constantly. When a balista hits the wall at dragonclaw, someone in the AD scroll gate will be updated with that information. When a flag is flipping in Vlast, the people sieging dragonclaw will be updated of that process as well.

What this suggestion would require is connected multiple zones into one large zone. So just like when you are in IC as a subzone, people in cyro are not updated, the people in greenshade would not be updated on whats happening within gratwood.

So what would have to happen is you could separate each overland zone into a pvp instance which is connected to anyone who is queued into that zone, but if you wanted greenshade and gratwood to share information like keeps being attacked, you would have to have them both in the same zone.

Also, what would you do about the hundreds of NPC and guards and mobs in these zones? Are they simply not there? Even if there is no bounty because there is no stealing in pvp, hitting a guard will trigger a non winnable fight.

It's just too complicated of an idea to be shoehorned into this system

I know why you can’t communicate between ic and cyro. I was using those as a response to your saying how would you know when something is burst.

They could overlay a pvp instance of the overland zones just like cyro/ic.
But I am updated on flags burst or changing in ic while in cyro and the same could go for me being in greenshade and seeing grahtwood burst.

Essentially each of these overland zones are a piece of ic and while I’m in each one I can see what is taking place.

I also said mobs, npc, public dungeons, dungeons, majority of delves would be removed/blocked.

Siege is only placeable within a city’s limits

Get_Packed

Irylia wrote: »

What if instead of cyrodiil we fought in a q’d instance of the overland zones.

To enter cyro you queue and you would do the same to enter a pvp overland zone.

Alliance zones:—————
Ad: reapers March, grahtwood, greenshade, malabol tor, auridon, kenarthis roost. (Home gate - Kenarthi (Where you initially enter upon q'ing pvp))

Ep: stonefalls, eastmarch, rift, Deshaan, shadowfen, bleakrock (Home gate - Bleakrock)

Dc: stormhaven, Alikr, glenumbra, rivenspire, bangkorai, Betnikh (Home gate - betnikh)

Objectives:—————
Towns: have 3 flags each. Once you capture all of the flags the town turns your color. Once you own 3 towns in a zone you can attack and attempt to control a major city.

Major city: 1 per zone and can only be captured while owning 3 surrounding towns. These cities have defensible walls and more fortification, alleys, streets and are larger in scale. Must capture 2 flags to own the city.

Capturing a zone:——————
Each overland zone has 3 towns with flags that need to be captured before you can lay siege to the main city of each zone. I.e. Rawl kha, Mornhould, Wayrest.
Once you control the major city the overland zone turns your alliances color and gives more scoring.

Note: Communication between guilds and pugs would be key. Solo/small-mid and pug groups could play a role in defending a town while a larger guild moves on to the city.

Scoring:—————
Town - 1 point
Major city - 3 points
Enemy Zone - 5 points
Scrolls - 3 points + stat buff
Betnikh/Kenarthi/bleakrock house a factions scroll and can be attacked when 3 overland zones are no longer in the defenders control.

Traveling:——————

1. You can use zone stones (keep recall) to port to any of your alliance owned areas town/major city provided it isn’t under attack.
2. Mount travel to a zones border where you can then enter the next zone via a load screen stormhaven to bangkorai etc.
islands are connected to the closest zone via a “boat port”
Auridon to greenshade.
3. DC can port to Eastmarch + The Rift and wage war on EP and Auridon + Greenshade to wage war on AD
4. AD port to Alikr + Glenumbra to fight DC and Shadowfen + Deshaan to face EP.
5. EP ports to Reapers March + Grahtwood to reach AD and Bangkorai + stormhaven to assault DC

Note: Players (example ad) can still mount travel from shadowfen > deshaan > stonefalls > The rift to fight DC and EP or shake up their assault with a diversion far behind enemy lines while their faction hits shadowfen (example)

What to remove:—————
1. To assist in performance the mobs, dungeon entrances and wandering npc's would be removed.
2. Siege can only be placed in and around the immediate vicinity of a major city.


Why pvp in overland zones?

---

1. The terrain is consistently fresh and allows for unique fights all across tamriel from the frigid cold eastmarch hills to alikr's scorching desert.
2. By using the zones we split up the pvp playerbase into potentially 18 different zones with a load time between zones causing less server stress
3. Players are encouraged to spread out because to capture a major city they need to control 3 towns which will be strewn across a zone sometimes requiring you to run around a mountain ridge which means some players will have to stay behind to defend the town while the main force marches onto the city for a zone capture. This in turn will reduce the ball mentality and reduce lag.

Extra:

---

1. Roads give a 15% speed boost to those mounted
2. Guilds can claim a major city/town
3. Guilds can claim an overland zone if they accomplish the zone "achievement" Killing x (10,000) enemy players in the zone.

Of course this isn't completely fleshed out and is up for remodeling/ideas but pvp in the overland locations would not only drastically reduce lag and spread players out but enrich our gameplay and allow us to enjoy the beautiful terrain in each zone without a vast area going to waste like in cyrodiil.

I can update this with other ideas/fixes if they get enough interest in the comments.

This is a great idea. They could make some great promo videos and draw in a lot of mmo pvpers!

yodased

But overlaying pvp "zone" across all the overland areas would make it one huge area. Don't you think they would have created this from the getgo if their hardware and engine could handle it?

You are going to go from 1 zone the size of craglorn to at least double that size, I do not see that as feasible. IC works because they are comparatively tiny and the entire IC map is about the size of cyrodiil itself.

Irylia

yodased wrote: »

But overlaying pvp "zone" across all the overland areas would make it one huge area. Don't you think they would have created this from the getgo if their hardware and engine could handle it?

You are going to go from 1 zone the size of craglorn to at least double that size, I do not see that as feasible. IC works because they are comparatively tiny and the entire IC map is about the size of cyrodiil itself.

No tbh I don’t think they thought of making their overland into the pvp locations

Get_Packed

Irylia wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

But overlaying pvp "zone" across all the overland areas would make it one huge area. Don't you think they would have created this from the getgo if their hardware and engine could handle it?

You are going to go from 1 zone the size of craglorn to at least double that size, I do not see that as feasible. IC works because they are comparatively tiny and the entire IC map is about the size of cyrodiil itself.

No tbh I don’t think they thought of making their overland into the pvp locations

😂😂😂, I doubt they have either.

usmcjdking

I'd pay good money if you could manhunt in ESO.

Katahdin

Irylia wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

If pvp was competitive and thriving they would have more potential players.

PvP would be thriving if the lag and performance issues would be fixed.

If they make all overland maps pvp maps, the mass exodous of pve players will lead to the game shutting down because while there are a bunch of pvp players, there are not enough to keep the game running.

If the Cyrodiil leaderboard lists (PCNA) are accurate, there are about 3000-5000 PVP players per alliance depending on the week

Of course this assumes no faction and campaign switching and it assumes people are not running multiple characters each campaign. We already know that no where near that number is playing at any one time.

So if all the assumptions above are true (PS they are not, see below) 10000-15000 players is not enough to populate a pvp map the size of all of tamriel or keep the game running.

Many people run multiple characters, sometimes in multiple factions to get the monthly transmutation geodes. I personally run at least 6 every month.
Some people play in different groups in different factions.

So the actual number of PvPers is below 10000/12000

You didn’t read.
I said a sep instance of the pve zones.
Pvp wouldn’t conflict with pve players in any way. You q into a pvp instance of the overland zones much like you q for cyro

I forgot to comment on that part, sorry.
Sperate servers have been asked for before many times.
They are not going to run up a whole second set of servers and split the playerbase.

You are just making it it’s own instance.
Not a sep server.
Currently two players in a group, in overland zones, could both travel to storm-haven and not be able to see one another. This is because they are in different instances and these instances are split to help server performance when one instance gets too filled. So you travel to player and it brings you to their instance.

It’s like a sheet of paper that you cut in half from top to bottom. So you have two identical sheets of paper, but now they are just thinner.

Better yet when you pull a Kleenex sheet apart and it becomes more transparent while you hold one piece in each hand.

I’m asking for there to be a pvp instance which can only be entered via q’ing into the pvp war
So all their pvp antics are sep from pve but they are allowed the freedom to use the terrain

I understand how instances work.

The game is creating an identical copy of the map with all the same rules (ie pve) as the original when the first one gets full.

What you are proposing is a copy of the map but with different rules so it's not identical.

The instance system does not work that way (make new copies with different rules) so it would have to be a completely seperate version of every map with pvp rules. That would require more server space probably close to double.