Hey Magblades! How's Murkmire for you?

brandonv516

HaruKamui wrote: »

Dampen magicka and fortified brass is pretty good for destro/2h. Im running spinners destro frontbar and defending willpower greatsword backbar . Dampen gives us the oh *** "heal" we need while also having the snare immunity from forward momentum. With my setup I no longer need to rely on the buggy shadow image, and I still have space for cloak. Spinners and willpower are pretty decent for stacking magicka on backbar to a workable value for dampen since the 2 and 3 piece of spinners are both max magicka.

Think of dampen as a breath of light for the class, albeit a bit weaker, but with magblade hots, cloak, and fm, it's decent enough to get out of sticky situations in my experience. Have to be careful not to cast it too much else it'll drain our magicka fast. Just pop 1, and let troll king, swallow soul, refreshing path do its work.

I lose a bit of burst because I can no longer run infused spell damage glyph on my backbar weapon but I am a lot more slippery this way. Anyway, If I miss my infused spell damage glyph, I just switch my 2h to a resto, then change fm to shadow image.

I'd love to see some of this in action. I'm assuming this is CP?

dagonbeer

Metemsycosis wrote: »

This patch I have to admit I like full heavy with 40k+ max Magicka, 27-30k health. Nice balance.

People always point at the raw attributes a magNB can achieve. Yeah, sure, Magicka Flood is a good passive, but that same build has ~half the spell damage vs weapon damage a equivalent stamblade would run.

kaithuzar

Personally I run around with ~36k max mag & aim for 14k+ pen w/3k+ buffed sp dmg & ~2k recovery

Metemsycosis

dagonbeer wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

This patch I have to admit I like full heavy with 40k+ max Magicka, 27-30k health. Nice balance.

People always point at the raw attributes a magNB can achieve. Yeah, sure, Magicka Flood is a good passive, but that same build has ~half the spell damage vs weapon damage a equivalent stamblade would run.

I can still easily attain 3k sd on that build (dragon guard+lich+ gold nirn greatsword+ infused beserker enchant+ all damage enchants). Lover+mark+ CP = 12-14k pen.

My stamblade builds are almost always at around 3.5-4k wd. Not the great disparity you make it out to be.

HowlKimchi

brandonv516 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Dampen magicka and fortified brass is pretty good for destro/2h. Im running spinners destro frontbar and defending willpower greatsword backbar . Dampen gives us the oh *** "heal" we need while also having the snare immunity from forward momentum. With my setup I no longer need to rely on the buggy shadow image, and I still have space for cloak. Spinners and willpower are pretty decent for stacking magicka on backbar to a workable value for dampen since the 2 and 3 piece of spinners are both max magicka.

Think of dampen as a breath of light for the class, albeit a bit weaker, but with magblade hots, cloak, and fm, it's decent enough to get out of sticky situations in my experience. Have to be careful not to cast it too much else it'll drain our magicka fast. Just pop 1, and let troll king, swallow soul, refreshing path do its work.

I lose a bit of burst because I can no longer run infused spell damage glyph on my backbar weapon but I am a lot more slippery this way. Anyway, If I miss my infused spell damage glyph, I just switch my 2h to a resto, then change fm to shadow image.

I'd love to see some of this in action. I'm assuming this is CP?

Okay, sometime around christmas break. my lazy ass cant deal with end of semester exams and gaming at the same time.

thankyourat

After a lot of play testing this patch I believe heavy armor is the much better choice for magblade in CP PvP. What I'm liking about it is the ability to not be instantly bursted. I also like the fact that I can run double damage sets in heavy and still sustain. Currently I'm running heavy julianos/spinner/troll king.

I run julianos for the crit loss of light armor plus the spell damage for your hots. Spinner makes up for the penetration loss. The fact that I don't need to use any regen glyphs makes the damage actually higher than light armor. Buffed I have around 3800sd, 39k magicka, 26k health 13k Stam, 1700 regen, 42% crit and 23k bow tooltip (may actually be higher).

I feel the playstyle in heavy is more fluid and I don't have to gut my damage to add resistances, health and Stam recovery because it's built into the armor. I've still hit people with 19k spectral bows. Troll king with cloak is broken you can't be killed if it's procing unless you are being zerged down. Often times my health will go from 30% to full with in a second or two.

In no CP I think proc sets are the way to go. Lich/Caluurion/Zaan/will power destro/2 recovery glyphs and concealed weapon for a spammable. I don't really have a lot of fun in battlegrounds because it's nothing but AOE spam/procs/and dks but this build is the most effective in my opinion.

Knootewoot

thankyourat wrote: »

After a lot of play testing this patch I believe heavy armor is the much better choice for magblade in CP PvP. What I'm liking about it is the ability to not be instantly bursted. I also like the fact that I can run double damage sets in heavy and still sustain. Currently I'm running heavy julianos/spinner/troll king.

I run julianos for the crit loss of light armor plus the spell damage for your hots. Spinner makes up for the penetration loss. The fact that I don't need to use any regen glyphs makes the damage actually higher than light armor. Buffed I have around 3800sd, 39k magicka, 26k health 13k Stam, 1700 regen, 42% crit and 23k bow tooltip (may actually be higher).

I feel the playstyle in heavy is more fluid and I don't have to gut my damage to add resistances, health and Stam recovery because it's built into the armor. I've still hit people with 19k spectral bows. Troll king with cloak is broken you can't be killed if it's procing unless you are being zerged down. Often times my health will go from 30% to full with in a second or two.

In no CP I think proc sets are the way to go. Lich/Caluurion/Zaan/will power destro/2 recovery glyphs and concealed weapon for a spammable. I don't really have a lot of fun in battlegrounds because it's nothing but AOE spam/procs/and dks but this build is the most effective in my opinion.

Hmmm I don't understand. Where do you get sustain from then?

HowlKimchi

Knootewoot wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

After a lot of play testing this patch I believe heavy armor is the much better choice for magblade in CP PvP. What I'm liking about it is the ability to not be instantly bursted. I also like the fact that I can run double damage sets in heavy and still sustain. Currently I'm running heavy julianos/spinner/troll king.

I run julianos for the crit loss of light armor plus the spell damage for your hots. Spinner makes up for the penetration loss. The fact that I don't need to use any regen glyphs makes the damage actually higher than light armor. Buffed I have around 3800sd, 39k magicka, 26k health 13k Stam, 1700 regen, 42% crit and 23k bow tooltip (may actually be higher).

I feel the playstyle in heavy is more fluid and I don't have to gut my damage to add resistances, health and Stam recovery because it's built into the armor. I've still hit people with 19k spectral bows. Troll king with cloak is broken you can't be killed if it's procing unless you are being zerged down. Often times my health will go from 30% to full with in a second or two.

In no CP I think proc sets are the way to go. Lich/Caluurion/Zaan/will power destro/2 recovery glyphs and concealed weapon for a spammable. I don't really have a lot of fun in battlegrounds because it's nothing but AOE spam/procs/and dks but this build is the most effective in my opinion.

Hmmm I don't understand. Where do you get sustain from then?

by my estimates it should be witchmother's potent brew, atro and vamp (or not vamp if highelf) for the recovery, and heavy armor heavy attacks with the resto staff. Could be wrong.


I'm not a fan of using witchmother's on any build, especially on a magblade without snare removal. We NEED that stam from trifood for the extra rolls, not to mention the overall stats that WPB gives is lackluster. That's why I chose to go the light armor path for the built in better sustain and damage, run 1 defensive set, and use trifood.

thankyourat

Knootewoot wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

After a lot of play testing this patch I believe heavy armor is the much better choice for magblade in CP PvP. What I'm liking about it is the ability to not be instantly bursted. I also like the fact that I can run double damage sets in heavy and still sustain. Currently I'm running heavy julianos/spinner/troll king.

I run julianos for the crit loss of light armor plus the spell damage for your hots. Spinner makes up for the penetration loss. The fact that I don't need to use any regen glyphs makes the damage actually higher than light armor. Buffed I have around 3800sd, 39k magicka, 26k health 13k Stam, 1700 regen, 42% crit and 23k bow tooltip (may actually be higher).

I feel the playstyle in heavy is more fluid and I don't have to gut my damage to add resistances, health and Stam recovery because it's built into the armor. I've still hit people with 19k spectral bows. Troll king with cloak is broken you can't be killed if it's procing unless you are being zerged down. Often times my health will go from 30% to full with in a second or two.

In no CP I think proc sets are the way to go. Lich/Caluurion/Zaan/will power destro/2 recovery glyphs and concealed weapon for a spammable. I don't really have a lot of fun in battlegrounds because it's nothing but AOE spam/procs/and dks but this build is the most effective in my opinion.

Hmmm I don't understand. Where do you get sustain from then?

I use clock work city food and tri stat glyphs on my big peices of armor. Plus magicka steal from drain is broken, siphoning attacks, and atro mundus. You also have constitution passives and resto heavy attacks in emergency situations. The sustain is pretty good. If you forget to keep drain and siphoning up you can run dry but with those abilities you should be fine.

The Stam sustain is why I like heavy armor though. Constitution makes it to where you always have stam it's like an amberplasm buff without having to slot the set. So a heavy build with 12.5k stam will actually have better stam sustain than light armor with 16k

HowlKimchi

thankyourat wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

After a lot of play testing this patch I believe heavy armor is the much better choice for magblade in CP PvP. What I'm liking about it is the ability to not be instantly bursted. I also like the fact that I can run double damage sets in heavy and still sustain. Currently I'm running heavy julianos/spinner/troll king.

I run julianos for the crit loss of light armor plus the spell damage for your hots. Spinner makes up for the penetration loss. The fact that I don't need to use any regen glyphs makes the damage actually higher than light armor. Buffed I have around 3800sd, 39k magicka, 26k health 13k Stam, 1700 regen, 42% crit and 23k bow tooltip (may actually be higher).

I feel the playstyle in heavy is more fluid and I don't have to gut my damage to add resistances, health and Stam recovery because it's built into the armor. I've still hit people with 19k spectral bows. Troll king with cloak is broken you can't be killed if it's procing unless you are being zerged down. Often times my health will go from 30% to full with in a second or two.

In no CP I think proc sets are the way to go. Lich/Caluurion/Zaan/will power destro/2 recovery glyphs and concealed weapon for a spammable. I don't really have a lot of fun in battlegrounds because it's nothing but AOE spam/procs/and dks but this build is the most effective in my opinion.

Hmmm I don't understand. Where do you get sustain from then?

I use clock work city food and tri stat glyphs on my big peices of armor. Plus magicka steal from drain is broken, siphoning attacks, and atro mundus. You also have constitution passives and resto heavy attacks in emergency situations. The sustain is pretty good. If you forget to keep drain and siphoning up you can run dry but with those abilities you should be fine.

The Stam sustain is why I like heavy armor though. Constitution makes it to where you always have stam it's like an amberplasm buff without having to slot the set. So a heavy build with 12.5k stam will actually have better stam sustain than light armor with 16k

Definitely valid points for stam sustain in heavy and I agree it definitely works. My only issue with constitution is that it's not up all the time, like when im LOSing or cloaked. They way I set mine up is I rely on stam recovery and a larger stam pool for dodge rolls, hence why I go for trifood. I also play BGs a lot where stam pool is much lower so I need that extra stam.

mav1234

Thinking of coming back to my mNB for this patch but this thread has me a little discouraged. I may try @brandonv516 's build since I have all (or most of) the pieces. I prefer BGs and no-CP... any other strong no-CP builds people have had luck with?

I've run a variety of combos before on my mnb, including various combinations of shackle/spinners/impreg/caluurions ... used to prefer melee playstyle but sounds like that is mostly dead in nocp.

Jeezye

Hey guys, I'll soon return to eso after christmas and can't wait to digg out my magblade.

Here's a few things I want to try (or have tried already) that I think are very powerfull for the class:

1. combine pirate skeleton, jorvulds and BR resto together with reapers mark. This allows for very high uptime of all major and minor buffs, essentially providing 100% major protection uptime, 4,2 seconds of major vitatlity when low, 7 seconds (!!!) of major berserk once you killed someone and a prolonged healing ward. However, I think the only feasible way to put this together is with a destro staff, so you are kind of forced to play a destro/resto setup.
2. combine BR resto with pariah, as the resistance cap at low health together with vamp passives should almost make you and your healing ward immortal as long as you have resources
3. lastly, I'm very tempted to try a hybrid spec with pelinals, as I feel magblades are lacking constant pressure besides timing Assassins and incaps. Ideally, I want to leverage momentum as a missing burst heal and bleeds to provide more pressure on enemies, but keep high HoTs from magblade.

any thoughts to that?

ccmedaddy

Wait Jorvuld's works with Pirate Skelly and BR resto? I'm intrigued...

Mrsinister2

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Wait Jorvuld's works with Pirate Skelly and BR resto? I'm intrigued...

It works with every major/Minor buff I use the set in my nb healer it great

dagonbeer

I don't think BR resto is great for magnbs. You get what, 400 more healing per tick from your hots for a few seconds? I'd rather have the extra sustain from the vma resto.

The healing ward nerf really screwed magnbs over.

brandonv516

dagonbeer wrote: »

I don't think BR resto is great for magnbs. You get what, 400 more healing per tick from your hots for a few seconds? I'd rather have the extra sustain from the vma resto.

The healing ward nerf really screwed magnbs over.

vMA resto is nice but I have difficulty finding a spot for both Healing Ward and Rapid Regen on my bar.

Jeezye

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Wait Jorvuld's works with Pirate Skelly and BR resto? I'm intrigued...

It works with every major/Minor buff I use the set in my nb healer it great

Sadly I haven't found any other application for jorvulds so far that provides offensive benefits. Major beserk and major force would be nice but there's just no feasible way to proc them reliably..

But yes I'll probably just continue to play my healblade, its really *** strong. I guess with BR resto and the steadfast ward morph you become a monster healer

jaws343

I haven't found any really hard hits to the way I play my magblade. But I have also been running a below meta build, with Julianos, Kags, and Skoria.

At some point I plan on switching it over to Bright Throat and Spell Strategist and getting as much offensive power out of the build as I can. I've found that I can handle Magblade with just cloak and Annulment with very little resistances, even in Murkmire. I don't mind my sorc requiring a bit of build up to kill someone, but I prefer my magblade to kill quick and move to the next target, and it's hard to build for that with Pariah or the like.

My dream Magblade build would be Balorg/Innate Axiom/Spell Strat, but my shoulder RNG is terrible. Not one Balorgh shoulder in months. So until then, I'll take the Bright Throat sustain over Axiom.

Mrsinister2

Jeezye wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Wait Jorvuld's works with Pirate Skelly and BR resto? I'm intrigued...

It works with every major/Minor buff I use the set in my nb healer it great

Sadly I haven't found any other application for jorvulds so far that provides offensive benefits. Major beserk and major force would be nice but there's just no feasible way to proc them reliably..

But yes I'll probably just continue to play my healblade, its really *** strong. I guess with BR resto and the steadfast ward morph you become a monster healer

There already monster healers but yea that resto would put them over the top.

fred4

I use Caluu, Zaan and Amber Plasm, mostly in CP open world, but it also works in no CP. After spending time with magplar, this feels squishy. I used to run Troll King, but Zaan results in fewer stalemates ... one way or the other.

Healing back up without Troll King or the initial Healing Ward heal is tough. I never used the shade much in the past, but now I do. I find it key to survival as well as stamina sustain. Yeah, it doesn't work vertically in towers and keeps, but it works in IC and other places around Cyrodiil.

I've played a 2H / resto melee build for a long time and still find that viable, and perhaps the most versatile, but only with Caluurion. Even though Caluu is reflectable, DKs often aren't wise to that and don't flap wings when you attack them with Concealed Weapon.

Tried switching to a destro staff, but got locked down by a mag DK and killed within seconds, despite shields. I think I was using Mutagen and Dampen at the time, which were no match for the DKs damage at all. Dampen + Healing Ward + Forward Momentum feel like a must in my build, if I am to have any chance of surviving when I don't have the shade down.

Bottom line, even with proc sets (relative easy mode) and without Merciless, this is trickier to play than my magplar, but also more rewarding and eminently more viable to solo with, as cloaking NBs always have been. I mostly run around in IC and rarely with big groups in Cyrodiil, regardless of the class I play. I have made AP / Rewards for the Worthy much quicker, since I switched back to nightblade, probably due to the amount of ganks and solo kills, as I don't make AP from taking keeps.

As ever, you tend to uncover the unsuspecting easy targets, but I'll attack anyone, regardless of class. It's fun to try ganking groups, while dropping in and out of combat with the shade and gathering more experience. I couldn't imagine waiting for a Merciless proc, though. It's the upfront damage potential of Caluu + Zaan, which makes this work without going stamblade.

I don't feel like I ever played magblade to it's highest potential in the past and you could argue I'm not doing it now by eschewing Merciless and relying on proc sets. I also took an absence while working on my magplar in recent months. It's therefore hard for me to compare Murkmire to previous patches, but if you ask me whether magblade is viable - at least with those sets and for the content that I play - the answer is a pretty emphatic yes.

fred4

brandonv516 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

I don't think BR resto is great for magnbs. You get what, 400 more healing per tick from your hots for a few seconds? I'd rather have the extra sustain from the vma resto.

The healing ward nerf really screwed magnbs over.

vMA resto is nice but I have difficulty finding a spot for both Healing Ward and Rapid Regen on my bar.

Yep. Also you can't Rapid Regen in cloak and, to make matters worse, might shoot a visible beam to another player. Tried it. It's not for me. Love it on other classes, but sticking with just Healing Ward on magblade.

fred4

Just to clarify, since I seem to be in the minority in saying that melee magblade is viable and fun, I have played my build unchanged in no CP. Having the sustain to cloak at will without substantially running down your magicka has always been pretty key to me. To that end I use Siphoning Attacks, Atro mundus, Ghastly Eye Bowl, Breton race, 2x cost reduction enchants, and Amber Plasm. That sounds like a lot of sustain, but it merely draws parity with my templar, who uses the templar rune, vMA resto and Ele Drain.

Yeah, I only have about 21K health and it's a very squishy setup. I actually still use 2x Swift enchants, so it's all about movement with Forward Momentum, Shade and Cloak, including the Concealed speed buff, while stacking Dampen + Healing Ward + resto ult (if need be), if I'm focused.

JusticeSouldier

brandonv516 wrote: »

So just a few questions:
Are you still playing Magblade?
What are your opinions on the class?
What do you have trouble with?
Do you think melee Magblade is viable after Murkmire?
.

It's the only 1 my veteran character.
And it feels very bad in Murkmire. More squishy, worse resourse management, less kill potential.
The worst problem is no options to use against snares and roots. warden with few frost aoe makes u...don't want to be rude.
Melee magblade = RIP.
4 seconds forward momentum vs stamina spending for each use - it feels poor on resourses and big loss on your damage.
Any compare with burst you can have with stamina nightblade.
Who also now have much better healing, defense options, everything better.
Bleedblade with steel tornado is your clear dealth.
Every stamina player with steelronado and bleeds to be exact.
Also, nothing to do against good dragonknight who uses Reflective scales.
It's viable vs inexperienced enemies.
Experienced ones in battlegrounds and openworld cyrodiil make you feel yourself flea or mosquito
.

Datthaw

Magblade this patch...... is a meme. Just a a meme

Jeezye

TBH, magicka nightbalde that rely on cloak will alway have a spot in pvp since its by far the easiest way in the game to control a fight and engage/disengage. However, if you dislike this playstyle (which I wholeheartly do!), there's almost no options left to build. Gankblade are also always okish, but rely on procs and not the actual class itself (at least for magicka).

It's is an utter tragedy how the class with formerly most potential effective build variety has been trimmed down that it can only be played as a cowardish class cannon ganker. I might exaggerate a bit, but at the very bottom line this is true.

Tommyguns818

So for this patch my poor magblade, destro/restro has been able to survive by using mighty chudan 2 piece, 5/1/1 light armor, 5 shackle breaker, 5 Amber plasm, and whole lot of spell potion and tri food up always. Sitting at 2500 spell dmg, 50% crit, 29k health, 39k magic, 19k Stam. So far so good. But yeah..... This patch really hurt. I want my shade fix and funnel health og back.

Metemsycosis

Imo destro--> melee in heavy is best but I really really like 2h. Most fun.
I mix and match: juli, sloads, spinners, innate axiom, dragonguard, Amber, lich, transmutation. Wanna try caluu but only ran the dungeon once. (Got a destro sharpened the first run tho)

Skoria, troll king, bloodspawn, earthgore.

dagonbeer

Jeezye wrote: »

TBH, magicka nightbalde that rely on cloak will alway have a spot in pvp since its by far the easiest way in the game to control a fight and engage/disengage. However, if you dislike this playstyle (which I wholeheartly do!), there's almost no options left to build. Gankblade are also always okish, but rely on procs and not the actual class itself (at least for magicka).

It's is an utter tragedy how the class with formerly most potential effective build variety has been trimmed down that it can only be played as a cowardish class cannon ganker. I might exaggerate a bit, but at the very bottom line this is true.

Agreed. To survive in BGs these days I have to cloak a lot more than before to avoid being focused (and slot troll king, whereas pre-Murkmire I'd have skoria.) I have good regen and decent resist (~27k mag ~20k phys when major ward/resolve is up) so I can spam healing ward to stay alive when being focused, but that's all it is -- survive until hopefully teammates step in. Without the heal from ward, or burst healing of any kind, it's hard to actually recover in the face of the stam s2w train. Whereas on my stamplar I can roll dodge/vigor and recover from being group targeted. Or magplar block heal to full.

(Having more fun on either stamplar/magplar this patch, but keep coming back to magblade because it's my highest ranked toon and want to unlock some outfit colors eventually.)

NyassaV

In PvP it went from my favorite class to donkey doo doo ever since summerset and went from a little annoying to "wow this is terrible"


I really don't care about PvE all that much but I seem to remember saying they weren't going to touch magblades anyone and just buff everyone else but they nerfed magblades anyways to the point that in PvP they are just... Literally the only way I can describe it is: they do damage. That's it. mDK has better self healing than a MagBlade

dagonbeer

NyassaV wrote: »

In PvP it went from my favorite class to donkey doo doo ever since summerset and went from a little annoying to "wow this is terrible"


I really don't care about PvE all that much but I seem to remember saying they weren't going to touch magblades anyone and just buff everyone else but they nerfed magblades anyways to the point that in PvP they are just... Literally the only way I can describe it is: they do damage. That's it. mDK has better self healing than a MagBlade

It was still very good in Summerset (I think the major magblade nerf there was cost increase to funnel/siphon?) The murkmire cost nerf to merciless sucks, but on the "bright" side, thanks to the travel time change I'm firing merciless less since I keep holding it reserve for the "right" moment. The real kicker is the healing ward nerf.