Magplar build brainstorming PvP

Brutusmax1mus

Reefo wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Btb : 150 x 30 = 4500
Lich: 1032 x 10 = 10320
Over the course of a minute.

I know this ignores % modifiers. But if you can reach levels of sustain where you don't need a large influx (1800+ for me ) why over sustain with lich? To me, if you're in an outnumbered situation forcing heavy usage of high cost skills, continuous sustain is a better way to plan a build. 40 seconds of mediocre sustain after the end of the proc means death. Id rather get to comfortable levels i know i can constantly sustain with.

Is 6k magicka over the course of 1min (1.5 to 2 spells) better than the permanent (double barred) increase in damage and healing to you? Not to me. Plan for constant sustain and get damage then, imo.

Front barring willpower is still very possible with btb.

Btb lets you tristat all gear, which unless youre running a pure dmg build, is the most effective way to get stats through enchants. If you put any points in health or stamina on your character sheet, just tristat everything and take them out for mag. Prismatic glyphs on body have you give up 2002 max main stat for 2203 hp and 2002 off stat. Great trade off for all magicka classes imo.

I do like lich a lot though.

Lich has 2 lines of regen.

If Lich is oversustain then use mage Mundus and boom, better than bright throat.

You lose 1 back barring it though. So along those same lines, of u go atro with btb it's

150+258 = 408 x 30 = 12240. Boom better than lich.

Lich, mage, trifood = 7.5k mag
Btb atro spring loaded = 7.5k mag

Im not saying lich isn't a great sustain set, but you get more reliable regen which i find more valuable. But lich itself with trifood and mage isn't enough to sustain someone for an extended fight, at all, especially if you back bar a staff and lose the 2nd regen line.

Koolio

Some other that I run to consider.

Desert Rose
Magicka Furnace
Sellixstrix (for stun off GCD)

Brutusmax1mus

Koolio wrote: »

Some other that I run to consider.

Desert Rose
Magicka Furnace
Sellixstrix (for stun off GCD)

You have to have 40k magicka for magicka furnace to be worthwhile don't you? And isn't it only melee attacks? I bg thought it eas useless vs ranged users. I rarely have 40k mag on my templar personally though.

Koolio

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Some other that I run to consider.

Desert Rose
Magicka Furnace
Sellixstrix (for stun off GCD)

You have to have 40k magicka for magicka furnace to be worthwhile don't you? And isn't it only melee attacks? I bg thought it eas useless vs ranged users. I rarely have 40k mag on my templar personally though.

It is only melee attack’s. It’s 16k magic per minute. But it’s also 100% on Melee. I love it in open world and both of these proc in most form.

I don’t know where the 40k magic ordeal is coming from. It price when below 80% so maybe that’s why.

It does have good 2-4 stats. Especially when paired with desert.

I use the same set up on my MDK as well. Then build everything else into damage.

I love it. To me it’s a great way to have both sets provide great sustain and some defense.

Just a personal preference

Joy_Division

I have 38K magicka as a Nord with Bright Throat without using any mage guild passives. I'm sold.

Brutusmax1mus

Koolio wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Some other that I run to consider.

Desert Rose
Magicka Furnace
Sellixstrix (for stun off GCD)

You have to have 40k magicka for magicka furnace to be worthwhile don't you? And isn't it only melee attacks? I bg thought it eas useless vs ranged users. I rarely have 40k mag on my templar personally though.

It is only melee attack’s. It’s 16k magic per minute. But it’s also 100% on Melee. I love it in open world and both of these proc in most form.

I don’t know where the 40k magic ordeal is coming from. It price when below 80% so maybe that’s why.

It does have good 2-4 stats. Especially when paired with desert.

I use the same set up on my MDK as well. Then build everything else into damage.

I love it. To me it’s a great way to have both sets provide great sustain and some defense.

Just a personal preference

Well anything less than 40k mag and it has a chance to proc and not give the full 8k.

Kartalin

I think if you look at recovery for lich and mag furnace over a minute, lich comes out on top because of the two other recovery bonuses in the 2-4 pieces.

Assuming they both proc on cool down during a one minute period:

Magicka Furnace: 8000 magicka twice, 16000 total magicka returned.

Shroud of the Lich: two 129 recovery buffs every two seconds over a minute (30 ticks * 258 = 7740 magicka) plus an extra 1032 recovery for twenty seconds (10 ticks *1032 = 10320 magicka) gives a grand total of 18060 total magicka returned.

Vestments of the Warlock: two 129 recovery buffs (7740 magicka) and 9000 once a minute for a total of 16740 magicka returned.

There’s other factors in considering which set to run, this just compares recovery.

Synozeer

With Lich, you also need to consider any increases to regen that you have, i.e. cp bonus up to 15%, class passives, etc. The 1032 recovery actually becomes more like 1300+ recovery on most characters, while Magicka Furnace and Warlock's 5 piece aren't affected by anything.

Kartalin wrote: »

I think if you look at recovery for lich and mag furnace over a minute, lich comes out on top because of the two other recovery bonuses in the 2-4 pieces.

Assuming they both proc on cool down during a one minute period:

Magicka Furnace: 8000 magicka twice, 16000 total magicka returned.

Shroud of the Lich: two 129 recovery buffs every two seconds over a minute (30 ticks * 258 = 7740 magicka) plus an extra 1032 recovery for twenty seconds (10 ticks *1032 = 10320 magicka) gives a grand total of 18060 total magicka returned.

Vestments of the Warlock: two 129 recovery buffs (7740 magicka) and 9000 once a minute for a total of 16740 magicka returned.

There’s other factors in considering which set to run, this just compares recovery.

Koolio

Kartalin wrote: »

I think if you look at recovery for lich and mag furnace over a minute, lich comes out on top because of the two other recovery bonuses in the 2-4 pieces.

Assuming they both proc on cool down during a one minute period:

Magicka Furnace: 8000 magicka twice, 16000 total magicka returned.

Shroud of the Lich: two 129 recovery buffs every two seconds over a minute (30 ticks * 258 = 7740 magicka) plus an extra 1032 recovery for twenty seconds (10 ticks *1032 = 10320 magicka) gives a grand total of 18060 total magicka returned.

Vestments of the Warlock: two 129 recovery buffs (7740 magicka) and 9000 once a minute for a total of 16740 magicka returned.

There’s other factors in considering which set to run, this just compares recovery.

This absolutely. I just also like the spell damage bonus from Magicka furnace but this becomes personal preference.

I really like it for when stamblades are extremely aggressive and don’t realize that they are just feeding me.

Desert rose however is around 36k mag per minute if procced on cooldown. Obviously vs 1-3 people it will just barely be better than the others. That also depends on how many dots they run.

At 3 people though with 100% uptime through mist form I find it to be my favorite.

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Some other that I run to consider.

Desert Rose
Magicka Furnace
Sellixstrix (for stun off GCD)

You have to have 40k magicka for magicka furnace to be worthwhile don't you? And isn't it only melee attacks? I bg thought it eas useless vs ranged users. I rarely have 40k mag on my templar personally though.

It is only melee attack’s. It’s 16k magic per minute. But it’s also 100% on Melee. I love it in open world and both of these proc in most form.

I don’t know where the 40k magic ordeal is coming from. It price when below 80% so maybe that’s why.

It does have good 2-4 stats. Especially when paired with desert.

I use the same set up on my MDK as well. Then build everything else into damage.

I love it. To me it’s a great way to have both sets provide great sustain and some defense.

Just a personal preference

Well anything less than 40k mag and it has a chance to proc and not give the full 8k.

Yea but most the time in heavy combat you’ll be low enough.

I also only use it back bar for a little more control.

Sometimes I run 4 Desert 4 Magicka Furn 2 willpower and monster just to have all the damage bonuses on front bar. And both 5pc active back bar but this is mainly when I want to do lots of kiting.

Koolio

Just out of curiosity how do some of you all like the CC changes with Toal Dark?

Reefo

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Btb : 150 x 30 = 4500
Lich: 1032 x 10 = 10320
Over the course of a minute.

I know this ignores % modifiers. But if you can reach levels of sustain where you don't need a large influx (1800+ for me ) why over sustain with lich? To me, if you're in an outnumbered situation forcing heavy usage of high cost skills, continuous sustain is a better way to plan a build. 40 seconds of mediocre sustain after the end of the proc means death. Id rather get to comfortable levels i know i can constantly sustain with.

Is 6k magicka over the course of 1min (1.5 to 2 spells) better than the permanent (double barred) increase in damage and healing to you? Not to me. Plan for constant sustain and get damage then, imo.

Front barring willpower is still very possible with btb.

Btb lets you tristat all gear, which unless youre running a pure dmg build, is the most effective way to get stats through enchants. If you put any points in health or stamina on your character sheet, just tristat everything and take them out for mag. Prismatic glyphs on body have you give up 2002 max main stat for 2203 hp and 2002 off stat. Great trade off for all magicka classes imo.

I do like lich a lot though.

Lich has 2 lines of regen.

If Lich is oversustain then use mage Mundus and boom, better than bright throat.

You lose 1 back barring it though. So along those same lines, of u go atro with btb it's

150+258 = 408 x 30 = 12240. Boom better than lich.

Lich, mage, trifood = 7.5k mag
Btb atro spring loaded = 7.5k mag

Im not saying lich isn't a great sustain set, but you get more reliable regen which i find more valuable. But lich itself with trifood and mage isn't enough to sustain someone for an extended fight, at all, especially if you back bar a staff and lose the 2nd regen line.

you lose 1 line with back bar but you spend alot of time there as a magplar anyway, so even taking 50% into account + all the passives which boost mag regen, it will never be less, even if its equal. spring loaded is less stats than tri food.

Reefo

Minno wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

Not sure why everyone loves bright throat, 1. Lich far out sustains it and can be back barred
2. Given that you have to have 5piece always active the 3k extra mag you get means you lose willpower on the front bar because Lich can be back barred
3. You have to run witchmothers which means you have less you lose magicka coz purple food is more magicka so it isn’t overall that much more different than willpower on your damage bar
4. You lose health and most importantly stamina to block with which is very much needed on a magplar, magdk etc

If there was a stamina version Lich I would Decon every single piece of bone pirate

One MAJOR reason for no Lich on MagPlar is this classes pretty high use of Mist Form. Those two do not work well together.

If you can run MagPlar without Mist (using 2H and forward momentum I guess?) then Lich would be decent.

And he's wrong about will power being lost on front bar if you go BTB. It's definitely possible you just have to 5pc the body pieces and go defense backbar.

wizards being the best defensive set on a magplar which isn't advisable to be back barred with 5sec duration. haven't tried it.

Reefo

sorry double post

Reefo

https://imgur.com/j1oBDTf

this is from wolfhunter with 780CP, without 5% spell damage buff from minor sorcery and without 3% crit loss from CP

pirate skeleton
wizards
lich
willpower

Brutusmax1mus

Koolio wrote: »

Just out of curiosity how do some of you all like the CC changes with Toal Dark?

Made this skill awful for small group. It shouldn't make them cc immune till after.

Brutusmax1mus

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

Minno

Reefo wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

Not sure why everyone loves bright throat, 1. Lich far out sustains it and can be back barred
2. Given that you have to have 5piece always active the 3k extra mag you get means you lose willpower on the front bar because Lich can be back barred
3. You have to run witchmothers which means you have less you lose magicka coz purple food is more magicka so it isn’t overall that much more different than willpower on your damage bar
4. You lose health and most importantly stamina to block with which is very much needed on a magplar, magdk etc

If there was a stamina version Lich I would Decon every single piece of bone pirate

One MAJOR reason for no Lich on MagPlar is this classes pretty high use of Mist Form. Those two do not work well together.

If you can run MagPlar without Mist (using 2H and forward momentum I guess?) then Lich would be decent.

And he's wrong about will power being lost on front bar if you go BTB. It's definitely possible you just have to 5pc the body pieces and go defense backbar.

wizards being the best defensive set on a magplar which isn't advisable to be back barred with 5sec duration. haven't tried it.

trans is backbarred and equally if not the better than wizard. Pariah can be backbarred too, but not benefit on your front bar (though lately templar mains have been embracing the offense/defense nature of templar so we shouldnt discount this philosphy just yet).

Lots of options this patch.

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

UppGRAYxDD

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

Yea, not too happy about this one...probably gonna have to run an ice staff on the back bar just for frost clench/total dark combo...

Brutusmax1mus

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

I know, question is why the change. If someone chooses to just go defensive it does nothing, at least make them able to be stunned by a teammate if they go full defense or kite around.

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

I know, question is why the change. If someone chooses to just go defensive it does nothing, at least make them able to be stunned by a teammate if they go full defense or kite around.

It should not be broken free/purged in this case since we can't cc anyway

Soris

It just *** everyone else's rotation in your group too. Goodbye coordinated ulti dump w/stun. Silly change imo.

Brutusmax1mus

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

I know, question is why the change. If someone chooses to just go defensive it does nothing, at least make them able to be stunned by a teammate if they go full defense or kite around.

It should not be broken free/purged in this case since we can't cc anyway

Exactly, or something. Right now im granting 13 of immunity to someone if they decide to disengage and run/ kite/ just go defensive. Love some feedback on this class reps.

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

I know, question is why the change. If someone chooses to just go defensive it does nothing, at least make them able to be stunned by a teammate if they go full defense or kite around.

It should not be broken free/purged in this case since we can't cc anyway

Exactly, or something. Right now im granting 13 of immunity to someone if they decide to disengage and run/ kite/ just go defensive. Love some feedback on this class reps.

Joy has stated in the bug thread that "this niche ability just got even nicher".

I believe we mentioned ideas on the rep discord, and had a very long discussion about the future of eclipse. Basically, the reps don't feel ZOS will even change it again, since it would be the 10th time adjusting this ability. Check I believe might mention something to the devs, but ultimately general consensus is that templar is in a decent/balanced spot and the direction of templar changes seems to be that we want polished changes/passive rework, especially with regards to stamplar.

Best morph now for eclipse is going to be Unstable Core with enduring rays passive unslotted. Because youll get the AOE burst after 4 seconds instead of 6, and if the target decides to roll away you shorten the cc immunity in bubble to 4 seconds. And the AOE burst happens outside of immunity so you can target cc pot users, and time UC offensively instead of entirely defensive.

In fact, don't use enduring rays at all, unless your main spamable is reflective light and are using an outside cc/AOE pressure via solar barrage.

Brutusmax1mus

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

I know, question is why the change. If someone chooses to just go defensive it does nothing, at least make them able to be stunned by a teammate if they go full defense or kite around.

It should not be broken free/purged in this case since we can't cc anyway

Exactly, or something. Right now im granting 13 of immunity to someone if they decide to disengage and run/ kite/ just go defensive. Love some feedback on this class reps.

Joy has stated in the bug thread that "this niche ability just got even nicher".

I believe we mentioned ideas on the rep discord, and had a very long discussion about the future of eclipse. Basically, the reps don't feel ZOS will even change it again, since it would be the 10th time adjusting this ability. Check I believe might mention something to the devs, but ultimately general consensus is that templar is in a decent/balanced spot and the direction of templar changes seems to be that we want polished changes/passive rework, especially with regards to stamplar.

Best morph now for eclipse is going to be Unstable Core with enduring rays passive unslotted. Because youll get the AOE burst after 4 seconds instead of 6, and if the target decides to roll away you shorten the cc immunity in bubble to 4 seconds. And the AOE burst happens outside of immunity so you can target cc pot users, and time UC offensively instead of entirely defensive.

In fact, don't use enduring rays at all, unless your main spamable is reflective light and are using an outside cc/AOE pressure via solar barrage.

Im wondering why it was changed. Didn't work like this until murk. No notes about it from what i saw.

Brutusmax1mus

It's not like they can't attack. Ive killed people while eclipsed before. 2 small heals don't break a shalk breaker combo from 70% hp. No reason eclipse needs to provide more cc immunity until broken or completed.

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

What's the deal with the eclipse change @Joy_Division @Checkmath

If you have the bubble on you, you cannot be cc'd by an outside cc ability.

This means templars MUST only use total dark/unstable core as their ONLY CC.

I know, question is why the change. If someone chooses to just go defensive it does nothing, at least make them able to be stunned by a teammate if they go full defense or kite around.

It should not be broken free/purged in this case since we can't cc anyway

Exactly, or something. Right now im granting 13 of immunity to someone if they decide to disengage and run/ kite/ just go defensive. Love some feedback on this class reps.

Joy has stated in the bug thread that "this niche ability just got even nicher".

I believe we mentioned ideas on the rep discord, and had a very long discussion about the future of eclipse. Basically, the reps don't feel ZOS will even change it again, since it would be the 10th time adjusting this ability. Check I believe might mention something to the devs, but ultimately general consensus is that templar is in a decent/balanced spot and the direction of templar changes seems to be that we want polished changes/passive rework, especially with regards to stamplar.

Best morph now for eclipse is going to be Unstable Core with enduring rays passive unslotted. Because youll get the AOE burst after 4 seconds instead of 6, and if the target decides to roll away you shorten the cc immunity in bubble to 4 seconds. And the AOE burst happens outside of immunity so you can target cc pot users, and time UC offensively instead of entirely defensive.

In fact, don't use enduring rays at all, unless your main spamable is reflective light and are using an outside cc/AOE pressure via solar barrage.

Im wondering why it was changed. Didn't work like this until murk. No notes about it from what i saw.

Gina said because it wasnt working as intended. It's highly possible that change was done to stop the recasting of the bubble, but at unintended immunity of all other CC's.

I hope zos can comment.

Reefo

double bloody mara works with bright throat, now this is interesting

Minno

Reefo wrote: »

double bloody mara works with bright throat, now this is interesting

Yup. It says it's a drink in the tooltip so its working as intended.

Duukar

For PvP

5 heavy 1-1
2 Blood Spawn impen
5 impreg all sturdy
5 Bright throat - 3 jewelry whatever additional sustain you need.
Resto
1h and shield sturdy

Time stop spam..