[VID] Scrubs Anon - Mag Small Scale

Thogard

More of a proof of concept vid than an epic PvP montage, but it’s a fresh take on a classic playstyle from other MMOs that was finally made possible in ESO in the Murkmire patch.

With full comms / audio because we care

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stDMD--5wM

Lord-Otto

Hm. Interesting watch. But what exactly is the concept you point out? Is it coordinating position and focus fire? That's what I notice.

Regarding the current sorc debate, I don't see anything special about the class itself. It's more the teamwork that makes you so successful. Although you're using sorc's range well, but I also miss the gapclose spam you usually see from zergs.

There was a situation, right at the beginning, where you got pinned down by a DK's roots. You asked for a resto ult from an ally to survive. Imagine there wouldn't have been one around. That's the reality many of us face regularly.

Hm, closing words. I definitely enjoyed watching this. But I'm quite sure a squad of magblades with Double Take slotted for positioning could do this even better. That's not to discredit you, but rather how I see the classes at the moment.

Thogard

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hm. Interesting watch. But what exactly is the concept you point out? Is it coordinating position and focus fire? That's what I notice.

Regarding the current sorc debate, I don't see anything special about the class itself. It's more the teamwork that makes you so successful. Although you're using sorc's range well, but I also miss the gapclose spam you usually see from zergs.

There was a situation, right at the beginning, where you got pinned down by a DK's roots. You asked for a resto ult from an ally to survive. Imagine there wouldn't have been one around. That's the reality many of us face regularly.

Hm, closing words. I definitely enjoyed watching this. But I'm quite sure a squad of magblades with Double Take slotted for positioning could do this even better. That's not to discredit you, but rather how I see the classes at the moment.

Double take does not clear snares or roots or teleport the user in any way.

We’ve tried running mag blades in the setup. They can’t keep up with the sorcs, they get left behind and they die.

TheYKcid

@Lord-Otto I'd say it's more to do with leveraging on Sorcs' presently unmatched open-field mobility. While this aspect of the class wasn't buffed per se, it did get relatively stronger in Murkmire due to the slowing-down of everyone across the board.

Being able to constantly peel back helps to string-out enemy zergs, leaving a handful of exposed targets that can be readily picked-off. Magden support is the natural complement to this as vines help them keep up with the Sorcs (though the skill frequently bugs-out, rubberbanding/LOS-cancelling and getting the user killed lol).

I agree it doesn't translate to solo play, and it's definitely a niche tactic (we have to avoid tower & keep fights like the plague), but it's one I don't think any other class can bring to the table quite as effectively right now, and I'm actually really pleased that my Sorc still excels at something.

Thog is the brains behind the operation though; he can probably elaborate better than I have.

Lord-Otto

Oh, I noticed what you mean and agree, you positioned yourselves quite well. I am not sure if Major Expedition would have been enough, there was a lot of running involved.
And with magblades, you can synchronize burst better. I saw many of Thog's Curses effectively wasted, as not everyone used them simultaneously. Combined bow shots should be easier to pull of and more deadly.
But yeah, teamwork was on point. For your purposes, you made it work.
d(^_^)

Ah! In fact, this reminds me of StarCraft's "Dragoon Dance", it's basically the same thing!

Thogard

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, I noticed what you mean and agree, you positioned yourselves quite well. I am not sure if Major Expedition would have been enough, there was a lot of running involved.
And with magblades, you can synchronize burst better. I saw many of Thog's Curses effectively wasted, as not everyone used them simultaneously. Combined bow shots should be easier to pull of and more deadly.
But yeah, teamwork was on point. For your purposes, you made it work.
d(^_^)

Ah! In fact, this reminds me of StarCraft's "Dragoon Dance", it's basically the same thing!

Yes the dragon dance repositioning is derived from the same strategy.

We’ve tried synchronizing curses but since at any given point in time half of the group is kiting, we gave up the idea.

CyrusArya

Nice video Thoggy Boy Jr, the mag sorc main. I like the comms it’s a nice touch. Glad you’re enjoying a different playstyle and out here demonstrating magicka isn’t as weak as some people like to claim.

Thogard

CyrusArya wrote: »

Nice video Thoggy Boy Jr, the mag sorc main. I like the comms it’s a nice touch. Glad you’re enjoying a different playstyle and out here demonstrating magicka isn’t as weak as some people like to claim.

Thanks man. Being a mag sorc is a lot of fun this patch. Have you ever played mag sorc before? I bet you’d like it.

MalagenR

If you put Rune Cage instead of Mines you’ll kill way more of those stragglers.

EDIT: if the group focus fire with the visual cue vs being told to do it.

Thogard

MalagenR wrote: »

If you put Rune Cage instead of Mines you’ll kill way more of those stragglers.

EDIT: if the group focus fire with the visual cue vs being told to do it.

We have someone running rune cage

MalagenR

Tell them to stop using it without a call out!

DisgracefulMind

Very nice. I've really been enjoying magicka builds this patch as well! Extremely fun. Keep up the good fights (:

Grimlok_S

Dig it!

Did you guys try vining the magdens into melee range off a sorc's streak/stun for coordinated fissure bombs?

Solariken

This is super refreshing actually. None of that tired Dawnbreaker spintarding, just a whole lotta pew pew!

@TheYKcid for sexiest sorc PC/NA

Thogard

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Dig it!

Did you guys try vining the magdens into melee range off a sorc's streak/stun for coordinated fissure bombs?

Yes but we found that without earthgores and /or Templars that we’d die.

Usually in the process of streaking away, we’re spreading out the opponents. In order for proxy to work, they’d need to be on top of each other, but in order for that to be the case we wouldn’t be able to kite (which is our only form of defense)

We’ve had a few good bombs where we use it but we usually wiped right after taking out half of a zerg with it because the other half kills us lol.

We wanted to avoid the mag ball group playstyle of stacking proxies and earthgores as well as the Stam ball group play style of stacking spin2win, beetles, earthgores, and remembrances.. so at this time I don’t see us going in that direction.


We DID have a ton of fun with everyone in the group equipping infernal guardian though. So many mortars on the people chasing us lol.

EDIT: Here’s a video of a full AD raid going into hiding just to try to catch us (and failing). It’s the only uploaded footage I have of the infernal guardian stacking but you can hear me talking about it lol

https://youtube.com/watch?v=kgXxOyqXUR4

Thogard

MalagenR wrote: »

Tell them to stop using it without a call out!

We primarily use it on permablock DKs / wardens. We run frozen retreat to pull enemies into us (and away from their healers / earthgores) and that usually gives our targets CC immunity. Rune cage is reserved for the permablockers that we’re having trouble dropping quickly.

Grimlok_S

Thogard wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Dig it!

Did you guys try vining the magdens into melee range off a sorc's streak/stun for coordinated fissure bombs?

Yes but we found that without earthgores and /or Templars that we’d die.

Usually in the process of streaking away, we’re spreading out the opponents. In order for proxy to work, they’d need to be on top of each other, but in order for that to be the case we wouldn’t be able to kite (which is our only form of defense)

We’ve had a few good bombs where we use it but we usually wiped right after taking out half of a zerg with it because the other half kills us lol.

We wanted to avoid the mag ball group playstyle of stacking proxies and earthgores as well as the Stam ball group play style of stacking spin2win, beetles, earthgores, and remembrances.. so at this time I don’t see us going in that direction.


We DID have a ton of fun with everyone in the group equipping infernal guardian though. So many mortars on the people chasing us lol.

EDIT: Here’s a video of a full AD raid going into hiding just to try to catch us (and failing). It’s the only uploaded footage I have of the infernal guardian stacking but you can hear me talking about it lol

https://youtube.com/watch?v=kgXxOyqXUR4

Lol that mortar fire is hilarious

I don't know why I didn't think that would devolve into proxy stacking.. Fair enough.

the ranged kite is impressive, keep it up!

barshemm

This patch I don't even bother chasing a sorc much anymore. If I do catch them I'll be out resources, albeit I'm running a build with a lot less sustain now as well. Just basically setting myself up to die tired.

Honestly I feel mag sorc got buffed this patch. They all have higher resists than I do now, at least the ones I talk to. Not complaining I honestly feel they are in a good spot now.

I main stam sorc.

TheYKcid

Solariken wrote: »

This is super refreshing actually. None of that tired Dawnbreaker spintarding, just a whole lotta pew pew!

@TheYKcid for sexiest sorc PC/NA

I am pretty fetching

Zer0oo

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

Thogard

Zer0oo wrote: »

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

We did try it. Downside is the darn channel time. We can’t have all of us stuck in the channel at the same time - at any given time at least half of us are taking dmg and kiting.

We might work a sniper nightblade into the mix but the speed is a concern - they would have trouble keeping up, even with concealed weapon and vamp form.

AyelineESO

Thogard wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

We did try it. Downside is the darn channel time. We can’t have all of us stuck in the channel at the same time - at any given time at least half of us are taking dmg and kiting.

We might work a sniper nightblade into the mix but the speed is a concern - they would have trouble keeping up, even with concealed weapon and vamp form.

Why a sniper NB when you can have a NB with a more well rounded build for open world PvP? Brings so much more to the group than some useless sniper (imo)

Also NB can easily keep up with sorc (If NB is using bow). Dodgeroll + sprint is more than enough to keep up

Thogard

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

We did try it. Downside is the darn channel time. We can’t have all of us stuck in the channel at the same time - at any given time at least half of us are taking dmg and kiting.

We might work a sniper nightblade into the mix but the speed is a concern - they would have trouble keeping up, even with concealed weapon and vamp form.

Why a sniper NB when you can have a NB with a more well rounded build for open world PvP? Brings so much more to the group than some useless sniper (imo)

Also NB can easily keep up with sorc (If NB is using bow). Dodgeroll + sprint is more than enough to keep up

1: because we’re a ranged group and having to get into melee range to do dmg would get that player immediately killed based on the size of the groups were fighting.

2. No, it’s not. Which is a good thing because if that was enough to keep up then we wouldn’t be able to streak away from the Zergs.

AyelineESO

Thogard wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

We did try it. Downside is the darn channel time. We can’t have all of us stuck in the channel at the same time - at any given time at least half of us are taking dmg and kiting.

We might work a sniper nightblade into the mix but the speed is a concern - they would have trouble keeping up, even with concealed weapon and vamp form.

Why a sniper NB when you can have a NB with a more well rounded build for open world PvP? Brings so much more to the group than some useless sniper (imo)

Also NB can easily keep up with sorc (If NB is using bow). Dodgeroll + sprint is more than enough to keep up

1: because we’re a ranged group and having to get into melee range to do dmg would get that player immediately killed based on the size of the groups were fighting.

2. No, it’s not. Which is a good thing because if that was enough to keep up then we wouldn’t be able to streak away from the Zergs.

1. Regarding that. I assume you arent fighting around obstacles like rock formations, palisades etc but rather open field then, right?
2. Speaking from my own experience, I have yet to meet a sorc that can escape from me with streak when I chase him with dodgeroll and sprint ( If the sorc isnt rather far away from me at the beginning of the chase already)

Metemsycosis

Wrt mageblade not able to keep up -- why are the mbs bee lining instead of arcing? Stoopid. Play to the strengths They're the second fastest class in the game, I never get run down unless it's by a stamsorc.

Also, agreed: Sprint+teleport strike counters streak in so many cases, but perhaps not as many as I would have figured.

Even my mageblade in well fitted can run down, then gapclose a streaking sorc, but it would seem not a lot of people build into the speed necessary. That's good for the op.

Proof of concept would be the power of mobility. I actually watched a bit of Thogards group live and remember thinking that the coordinated streaks is what kept the entire group going. I was impressed. Wish y'all ganked the scroll, lol.....

Thogard

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

We did try it. Downside is the darn channel time. We can’t have all of us stuck in the channel at the same time - at any given time at least half of us are taking dmg and kiting.

We might work a sniper nightblade into the mix but the speed is a concern - they would have trouble keeping up, even with concealed weapon and vamp form.

Why a sniper NB when you can have a NB with a more well rounded build for open world PvP? Brings so much more to the group than some useless sniper (imo)

Also NB can easily keep up with sorc (If NB is using bow). Dodgeroll + sprint is more than enough to keep up

1: because we’re a ranged group and having to get into melee range to do dmg would get that player immediately killed based on the size of the groups were fighting.

2. No, it’s not. Which is a good thing because if that was enough to keep up then we wouldn’t be able to streak away from the Zergs.

1. Regarding that. I assume you arent fighting around obstacles like rock formations, palisades etc but rather open field then, right?
2. Speaking from my own experience, I have yet to meet a sorc that can escape from me with streak when I chase him with dodgeroll and sprint ( If the sorc isnt rather far away from me at the beginning of the chase already)

1. Yes
2. We don’t need to escape from you. We just need you to chase us far enough so that you’re out of range of your groups healer. You can catch us then but you’d be dead.

Thogard

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Wrt mageblade not able to keep up -- why are the mbs bee lining instead of arcing? Stoopid. Play to the strengths They're the second fastest class in the game, I never get run down unless it's by a stamsorc.

Also, agreed: Sprint+teleport strike counters streak in so many cases, but perhaps not as many as I would have figured.

Even my mageblade in well fitted can run down, then gapclose a streaking sorc, but it would seem not a lot of people build into the speed necessary. That's good for the op.

Proof of concept would be the power of mobility. I actually watched a bit of Thogards group live and remember thinking that the coordinated streaks is what kept the entire group going. I was impressed. Wish y'all ganked the scroll, lol.....

We always try to gank the scroll. But it’s hard because these days it seems the scroll carrier always has a ton of speed. We’re getting stuck in combat and can’t mount, which means we can usually only catch the scroll carrier once.

Remember that we kite away, we don’t push. if the people were fighting are running away from us then it’s trouble. Furthermore, our back is always vulnerable... and we have a pattern of getting hit from behind by the third alliance whenever we try to hit a scroll running group.

Magblades are fast until they get snared.

Sorcs can streak while they’re snared or rooted and still go the full distance. Wardens can vine while snared or rooted and still go full distance.

Mag blades not so much.

Trust me when I say we’ve tried. If you think it’s possible tho then feel free to put together your own group and show me some good ideas

AyelineESO

Thogard wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

We did try it. Downside is the darn channel time. We can’t have all of us stuck in the channel at the same time - at any given time at least half of us are taking dmg and kiting.

We might work a sniper nightblade into the mix but the speed is a concern - they would have trouble keeping up, even with concealed weapon and vamp form.

Why a sniper NB when you can have a NB with a more well rounded build for open world PvP? Brings so much more to the group than some useless sniper (imo)

Also NB can easily keep up with sorc (If NB is using bow). Dodgeroll + sprint is more than enough to keep up

1: because we’re a ranged group and having to get into melee range to do dmg would get that player immediately killed based on the size of the groups were fighting.

2. No, it’s not. Which is a good thing because if that was enough to keep up then we wouldn’t be able to streak away from the Zergs.

1. Regarding that. I assume you arent fighting around obstacles like rock formations, palisades etc but rather open field then, right?
2. Speaking from my own experience, I have yet to meet a sorc that can escape from me with streak when I chase him with dodgeroll and sprint ( If the sorc isnt rather far away from me at the beginning of the chase already)

1. Yes
2. We don’t need to escape from you. We just need you to chase us far enough so that you’re out of range of your groups healer. You can catch us then but you’d be dead.

1. Alright. I can see why a sniper NB is better for the playstyle then.
2. I know but I said what I said just to highlight that it would be possible for your group to utilize a NB as it could keep up with the rest of the group which was a concern of yours.

Thogard

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Did you try if the range proxi det would fit in? It would give an extreme aoe burst.

(Little disappointed that this is not a sniper squad)

We did try it. Downside is the darn channel time. We can’t have all of us stuck in the channel at the same time - at any given time at least half of us are taking dmg and kiting.

We might work a sniper nightblade into the mix but the speed is a concern - they would have trouble keeping up, even with concealed weapon and vamp form.

Why a sniper NB when you can have a NB with a more well rounded build for open world PvP? Brings so much more to the group than some useless sniper (imo)

Also NB can easily keep up with sorc (If NB is using bow). Dodgeroll + sprint is more than enough to keep up

1: because we’re a ranged group and having to get into melee range to do dmg would get that player immediately killed based on the size of the groups were fighting.

2. No, it’s not. Which is a good thing because if that was enough to keep up then we wouldn’t be able to streak away from the Zergs.

1. Regarding that. I assume you arent fighting around obstacles like rock formations, palisades etc but rather open field then, right?
2. Speaking from my own experience, I have yet to meet a sorc that can escape from me with streak when I chase him with dodgeroll and sprint ( If the sorc isnt rather far away from me at the beginning of the chase already)

1. Yes
2. We don’t need to escape from you. We just need you to chase us far enough so that you’re out of range of your groups healer. You can catch us then but you’d be dead.

1. Alright. I can see why a sniper NB is better for the playstyle then.
2. I know but I said what I said just to highlight that it would be possible for your group to utilize a NB as it could keep up with the rest of the group which was a concern of yours.

Ah yeah but the nb would only move fast in cloak, and were getting hit by a ton of AOE which would pop them out. Only streak and warden Spider-Man vine work through snares.

WuffyCerulei

This is pretty pleasant to watch. You have nice relaxed comms and the music is chill as well, not loud af rap with a swear every second word.

Thogard

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

This is pretty pleasant to watch. You have nice relaxed comms and the music is chill as well, not loud af rap with a swear every second word.

Thanks! I let out all my rage on my toxic Tuesday streams. It lets me be chill and composed for the remainder of the week.

This is me last night when Monday became Tuesday: