Why is there a fencing limit?

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

Nuff said.

Fencing 140 items on one char or splitting the thievery between 2 or 3 chars makes little difference.

And why does Pirharri charge a fee while using said limit?

Linaleah · November 2018

why is there a limit? to control inflation. if you can generate unlimited gold, it devalues it too much.
why does Pirharri charge a fee? because of convenience. you can use her anywhere, so if you have a bounty you can get rid of your stolen loot at reduced profit, instead of losing it all to a guard and getting NO profit.

Tryxus · November 2018

Thieves get greedy, and will keep on their criminal activities unless there's a limit

And Pirharri... she's Khajiit. She needs her "Moon Sugar Fee", especially for quickly smuggling stolen goods if you're in a hurry... or when the law is after you

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

lokulin · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nuff said.

Fencing 140 items on one char or splitting the thievery between 2 or 3 chars makes little difference.

And why does Pirharri charge a fee while using said limit?

Totally agree, the 140 item limit seems arbitrary and lame. I'd rather go on a huge stealing spree once in a while and sell everything at once rather than log in every day and only be able to sell 140 items. I'm not sure how people grind out "Black Marker Mogul" in any reasonable time frame with the 140 item limit.

VaranisArano · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

Kalik_Gold · November 2018

The Guards are on to him now... come back tomorrow.

Perwulf · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nuff said.

Fencing 140 items on one char or splitting the thievery between 2 or 3 chars makes little difference.

And why does Pirharri charge a fee while using said limit?

What are you stealing? White grain of rice?!

For a 140 daily limit and around 140-160 safeboxes, you can earn around 33,000-37,000g 24,000-37,000 depending on RNG in an 30 minutes-2 hours span which can still be shortened with the right equipment, force lock passive, or playing as Khajiit and this is just for fencing. The golds you loot from safe boxes can reach up to 16,380 for 140 safeboxes if you have treasure hunter passive.

To give you an accumulated sum, my average golds earns via stealing earns me around 36,000-50,000g per day. Doing this on 2-3 toons earns more profit nevertheless 8 toons! But alas I only have 1 character with max legerdemain because I'm too lazy to grind it. Now a days, I am more focused on crafting because it earns more golds for a guy with only one character with a maxed legerdemain skill line.

Edit:
Once again I wore the mantle of a thief and did it as fast I can in a 30 minutes-ish span hence the strikethrough sum above.

Acrolas · November 2018

It mimics the distribution issues, liability reduction, and restricted cash flow that smugglers would face. In order to buy new stolen goods, the fence needs to be paid for the current shipment. That takes some time to resolve. And you would never want too many items from one source. Makes it easier to track the culprits and the footprint.

Using Pirharri is akin to calling in a personal favor. The cut represents the heightened risk of doing this type of business outside the Refuge.

Everything's working as intended. I'd say it's a fine example of subtle worldbuilding.

Merlin13KAGL · November 2018

Simply put, to keep you from maxing out Legerdemain in one transaction.

You could fence 10,000 apples in a single day, and if you got caught by guards, the loss isn't enough to matter.

Linaleah · November 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

this.

moreover - to OP. imagine for a moment, you have a bounty becasue you got noticed by a few npc's in a corner of a building that has a closed door. you are STILL not noticed by a guard, but there are several of them between you and that door you NEED to go through, to reach the refuge. once they notice you, clicking that door becomes difficult to impossible. that's the kind of situation that Pirharri exists for.

and I'm actualy not thinking in hypothetical, for me this exact situation happened when I was farming for bosmer throne recipe and my option was... log out and wait out the bounty, or fence with Pirharri and then pay the bounty to one of the guards and be able to actualy play my character right away.

she is situational and I'm reasonably sure she is intended to be that way, and the fee is high enough so that people have to keep going to the refuge. (in part I would imagine cause not everyone may have acess to thieves' guild DLC, but EVERYONE can steal and fence and some people but not others would have what can be seen as unfair advantage)

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

I can do my illegal business even with 200k of bounty. (I already did this. No problem.)

Therefore, I don't need to switch chars for the cooldown, although it's a nice 'feature'. It's just about the limit.

Which is a bad joke, the limit goes 50/110/120/130/140. Totally random nonsense.

Edaphon · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

Players can't but bots can. Removing the limit would only help gold sellers.

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

Edaphon wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

Players can't but bots can. Removing the limit would only help gold sellers.

There are pickpocket bots?

Jaraal · November 2018

I have five max passive (Ledger/TG/DB) thieves who can earn me 100k a day in a few hours of playing time, by selling 140 green, blue, and purple treasures each to a fence. And that doesn't count any launderable motifs, furnishing plans, mats, decon armors, etc.

I'd be all for raising the fenceable item cap, it would just mean more gold for me. But for that very reason, I understand better than most why it's in place.

Edaphon · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

Players can't but bots can. Removing the limit would only help gold sellers.

There are pickpocket bots?

Thieving isn't limited to pickpocketing and one of the reasons there aren't any bots yet ist the fencing limit.

Fur_like_snow · November 2018

I was under the impression that the fencing limit like crafting dailies was given the same treatment in order to control the amount of resources generated per day per character giving players incentive to log in during the week.

Daily BG reward, daily dungeon, region specific dailies trial weeklies etc all have a resource cap per/day/week. Thievery is a set number(140) per day per character so the dedicated thief can make a decent living within the limit with the appropriate setup.

How about this idea instead of a sell limit make it unlimited selling but only one transaction per day per character.

Banana · November 2018

To prolong the grind

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

I was under the impression that the fencing limit like crafting dailies was given the same treatment in order to control the amount of resources generated per day per character giving players incentive to log in during the week.

Daily BG reward, daily dungeon, region specific dailies trial weeklies etc all have a resource cap per/day/week. Thievery is a set number(140) per day per character so the dedicated thief can make a decent living within the limit with the appropriate setup.

How about this idea instead of a sell limit make it unlimited selling but only one transaction per day per character.

Bad idea. Since the code is that crappy, the transaction could easily get interrupted by a CtD. You know, repeatedly pressing E would trigger the Wrobel among the anti-bot mechanics.

firedrgn · November 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

Yep i stack only blue and purple throw the rest out
Still not very much gold even if i tuen in all blue.

Jaraal · November 2018

firedrgn wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

Yep i stack only blue and purple throw the rest out
Still not very much gold even if i tuen in all blue.

Let's do the math on this.

If you sell 140 blue treasures to a fence for 275 gold (max Haggling passive) each, that's 38,500 gold per day. Multiply that by the max number of characters you can have (14), and that's well over half a million gold per day. Granted, that would take you all day playing to achieve, but that doesn't even count the purple treasures (1,650 gold ea. with max Haggling) you should be getting in the time it takes to get 140 blues. Plus, if you're stealing in some DLC zones you have a chance to steal blueprints/praxis/furnishings etc that will sell to players for half a mil on their own. So, there's certainly a lot of gold potentially available in the Justice system to the dedicated player, should they choose to pursue it.

firedrgn · November 2018

Jaraal wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

Yep i stack only blue and purple throw the rest out
Still not very much gold even if i tuen in all blue.

Let's do the math on this.

If you sell 140 blue treasures to a fence for 275 gold (max Haggling passive) each, that's 38,500 gold per day. Multiply that by the max number of characters you can have (14), and that's well over half a million gold per day. Granted, that would take you all day playing to achieve, but that doesn't even count the purple treasures (1,650 gold ea. with max Haggling) you should be getting in the time it takes to get 140 blues. Plus, if you're stealing in some DLC zones you have a chance to steal blueprints/praxis/furnishings etc that will sell to players for half a mil on their own. So, there's certainly a lot of gold potentially available in the Justice system to the dedicated player, should they choose to pursue it.

1. You would have to lvl all those characters . To be efficient you need to fully lvl lederdemain and thieves guild for the passives.
2. I timed how long my average was to steal and pick blues. I can tell you it takes imo too long to steal and pick that many blues on one toon let alone 14 toons.
3. Im guessing you have not timed how long it takes to steal 140 blues with a max lvl toon.
4. So the math looks sexy, but its just not doable even in a "day"

5. There are more efficent ways of making gold.
6. Is it fun ? Ya for a while but you will get burned out imo.

Jaraal · November 2018

firedrgn wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

Yep i stack only blue and purple throw the rest out
Still not very much gold even if i tuen in all blue.

Let's do the math on this.

If you sell 140 blue treasures to a fence for 275 gold (max Haggling passive) each, that's 38,500 gold per day. Multiply that by the max number of characters you can have (14), and that's well over half a million gold per day. Granted, that would take you all day playing to achieve, but that doesn't even count the purple treasures (1,650 gold ea. with max Haggling) you should be getting in the time it takes to get 140 blues. Plus, if you're stealing in some DLC zones you have a chance to steal blueprints/praxis/furnishings etc that will sell to players for half a mil on their own. So, there's certainly a lot of gold potentially available in the Justice system to the dedicated player, should they choose to pursue it.

1. You would have to lvl all those characters . To be efficient you need to fully lvl lederdemain and thieves guild for the passives.
2. I timed how long my average was to steal and pick blues. I can tell you it takes imo too long to steal and pick that many blues on one toon let alone 14 toons.
3. Im guessing you have not timed how long it takes to steal 140 blues with a max lvl toon.
4. So the math looks sexy, but its just not doable even in a "day"

5. There are more efficent ways of making gold.
6. Is it fun ? Ya for a while but you will get burned out imo.

I've already spent the time leveling my characters, max Ledger/TG/DB. And of course, "too long" is a relative term. I don't play nearly as much as others do. And sure, it can take some a long time to get that many blue treasures. But there are ways and means that aren't always obvious to those who haven't invested the time to be proficient in any gaming endeavor.

Here's a tip: There are areas where you can round up 20+ citizens, snare them all, and then aoe them all to death within seconds. When you loot the pile, you get 20+ treasures at once (and lots of gold and XP for the kills). Go grab another 20 citizens nearby, and by the time you are done with them, the others have respawned. I know players who have multiple mass murdering toons that don't care about bounties and are for the sole purpose of making gold from fences.

Where there's a will, there's a way. And just because something looks difficult to the untrained eye, it doesn't always mean that it is.

Reverb · November 2018

Do you have any idea how many millions and millions of gold everyone would have if there were no limit?

idk · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

You are a very slow pick pocket then.

VaranisArano · November 2018

firedrgn wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

Yep i stack only blue and purple throw the rest out
Still not very much gold even if i tuen in all blue.

ZOS doesnt care about how much or how little gold you as an individual generate. They care about how much gold thieves across the entire server generate.

Most thieves can easily generate somewhere between 1-14k a day without spending a lot of time farming stolen goods. Add it up across the entire server's population of thieves, and thats quite a bit of gold generated.

The easiest way for ZOS to raise the transaction limit AND limit gold inflation would be to increase the amount of white 40g stolen items and vendor junk in the loot tables, and I doubt anyone wants that.

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

I can generate about 18 or 19k on one tour on one char.

The question is: Why a limit? After 19k I can simply continue with #2. And so on. Since the limit is just annoying, not preventing, it's quite pointless.

As well as the progression of the limit. As I said: 50/110/120/130/140? These numbers are so arbitrary and odd. Why not 50/130/170/190/200 or 50/110/140/170/180? Why not a continously diminishing amount of additional actions per skill point? Now the step from 50 to 110 looks like a bug.

firedrgn · November 2018

Jaraal wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

It is already impossible to generate unlimited gold.

If you extend your thievery to the 8 free slots and use special gear, you can basically pickpocket all the time. Add the crown slots and you can pickpocket 24/7 in theory.

The variable in this calculation that already renders this impossible is the player who can't play 24/7.

So the question that remains: Did they do it this way because forcing thieves to extend their inventory for gold or crowns was their intention?

Concerning Pirharri, you are right in terms of convenience. I disagree to the rest, since you actually can't fence while you have the guard's attention.

I can't farm gold through stealing 24/7, but I can definitely farm more than 140 green+ quality items in the time I can play when I desire. Multiply that by however many players are thieving and killing, and who can also farm more than 140 items of any quality and we begin to see why ZOS set a limit.

I typically steal on a thief with maxed inventory, staying in the same area so duplicate items stack, and Im willing to make trips to the fence, so inventory size isn't a problem. Its about the gold generated.

Yep i stack only blue and purple throw the rest out
Still not very much gold even if i tuen in all blue.

Let's do the math on this.

If you sell 140 blue treasures to a fence for 275 gold (max Haggling passive) each, that's 38,500 gold per day. Multiply that by the max number of characters you can have (14), and that's well over half a million gold per day. Granted, that would take you all day playing to achieve, but that doesn't even count the purple treasures (1,650 gold ea. with max Haggling) you should be getting in the time it takes to get 140 blues. Plus, if you're stealing in some DLC zones you have a chance to steal blueprints/praxis/furnishings etc that will sell to players for half a mil on their own. So, there's certainly a lot of gold potentially available in the Justice system to the dedicated player, should they choose to pursue it.

1. You would have to lvl all those characters . To be efficient you need to fully lvl lederdemain and thieves guild for the passives.
2. I timed how long my average was to steal and pick blues. I can tell you it takes imo too long to steal and pick that many blues on one toon let alone 14 toons.
3. Im guessing you have not timed how long it takes to steal 140 blues with a max lvl toon.
4. So the math looks sexy, but its just not doable even in a "day"

5. There are more efficent ways of making gold.
6. Is it fun ? Ya for a while but you will get burned out imo.

I've already spent the time leveling my characters, max Ledger/TG/DB. And of course, "too long" is a relative term. I don't play nearly as much as others do. And sure, it can take some a long time to get that many blue treasures. But there are ways and means that aren't always obvious to those who haven't invested the time to be proficient in any gaming endeavor.

Here's a tip: There are areas where you can round up 20+ citizens, snare them all, and then aoe them all to death within seconds. When you loot the pile, you get 20+ treasures at once (and lots of gold and XP for the kills). Go grab another 20 citizens nearby, and by the time you are done with them, the others have respawned. I know players who have multiple mass murdering toons that don't care about bounties and are for the sole purpose of making gold from fences.

Where there's a will, there's a way. And just because something looks difficult to the untrained eye, it doesn't always mean that it is.

So your toons are usless for anyother content including what we where talking about before. Xp is worthless.

You keep moving goal post just to make the math look sexy.

Its not practical in terms of time invested.

Ive seen the videos of the high bounty npc killing trick. I never saw any decent drops. Link a video if u have one of farming blues. Now if u could farm purples u might have something.

Also your talking gold per hour dropped.. gold post moved again.hehehe But I would be interested in actual numbers on that.

I might even be persuaded to use one toon for such activity.

Also, you are talking coherency i am talking correspondence. There is a big differance between the two.

Aurielle · November 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

I can generate about 18 or 19k on one tour on one char.

The question is: Why a limit? After 19k I can simply continue with #2. And so on. Since the limit is just annoying, not preventing, it's quite pointless.

As well as the progression of the limit. As I said: 50/110/120/130/140? These numbers are so arbitrary and odd. Why not 50/130/170/190/200 or 50/110/140/170/180? Why not a continously diminishing amount of additional actions per skill point? Now the step from 50 to 110 looks like a bug.

The limit exists to deter gold sellers, as has already been explained to you. If there was no limit, gold sellers could farm and fence 24/7, generating far more profit during that time than they do by farming crafting materials.