Sub Assault/ Deep Fissure Adjustment

usmguy1234

ccmedaddy wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ

Good job, you found a parse. Now go google what numbers other classes are getting under the same circumstance, especially melee (stam) DPS.

No I proved your argument is pure conjecture. This is a pvp discussion anyways.

lol no I'm objectively correct here regarding magwarden's place in the PvE meta and I'm just humoring you and your awful suggestions because I'm bored at work atm.

The fact that you think you've "proven" anything with that one parse, which is lower than what other classes get under the same conditions, is just too funny..

Your original statement was that adjusting fissure would break magden in pve. I showed you a parse where a magden does 53k dps without fissure (more than adequate) and then you divert to saying that magden dps is lower than any other class. Maybe you should focus on doing a good job at work because your argument is severely lacking here.

Smh... Go watch the same player's magwarden parse on Murkmire and see how she not only slots Deep Fissure but also pretty much casts it on cool down. It's an essential magwarden DPS skill this patch due to the changes to the passive...

I'm embarrassed for you at this point tbh.

Why are you still talking about pve? I posted this in the pvp section for a reason. If you want to get triggered at me asking for adjustments for a skill in pvp that will adversely charge the way that class performs in pve that's fine. I use to do the same thing but then I realized if Zos had taken the time to seperate the two balance wise maybe this wouldn't have ever been an issue.

_Ahala_

Has this seriously devolved into a nerf Magden thread? Now I’ve seen everything... If Fissure gets a nerf then the Winters Embrace tree is gonna need a dps rework to keep Magden viable in PvP

FrancisCrawford

ccmedaddy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

(unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.

For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

I agree with your general sentiment.

However, Warden is the least annoying stamina class to level precisely because of its stamina heal and stamina ranged attacks.

CatchMeTrolling

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

(unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.

For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

I agree with your general sentiment.

However, Warden is the least annoying stamina class to level precisely because of its stamina heal and stamina ranged attacks.

Stamplar or stam sorc, the warden heal is too expensive for someone to solo level with. And if you’re power leveling it’s much easier on sorc and stamplar.

evoniee

just press any major evasion skill

ATomiX96

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ

siroria, zaan, equilibrium, prebuffing with accelerate changing to trap during fight, bear, while getting orbs from healer, not self applied drain, healer applying 100% minor vulnerability with IA.... every class can do at least that damage on a dummy if not more.
Only cheese this video is missing is:

• max mag / mag recovery food
• lover mundus

53k is pretty disappointing for that much cheese tbh.

ATomiX96

.

usmguy1234

ATomiX96 wrote: »

.

Thank you for the input but for the sake of argument can we keep this focused on pvp? I made the mistake of being baited off topic by the person I replied to. I will be more than willing to discuss the pvp implications with you if you choose too.

wheem_ESO

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

.

Thank you for the input but for the sake of argument can we keep this focused on pvp? I made the mistake of being baited off topic by the person I replied to. I will be more than willing to discuss the pvp implications with you if you choose too.

Then address my PvP oriented post from the first page.

If your suggestion were put in place, especially if the width of the Shalks targeting remained unchanged, no Mag Warden with a brain would run the ability anymore. So what would you suggest we replace it with, should we desire to actually land some kills from time to time? Are we supposed to just throw on Fetcher Infection, then use light attacks + a spammable to take people down?

As I said previously, I'm totally fine with the Shalks being nerfed in some capacity (though I still think your suggestion is absolutely the wrong way to do it), as long as there are other buffs/changes to compensate. Being forced to rely on the Shalks in order to have a chance at landing a kill works OK vs people that are either caught off guard, or aren't very good at the game, but as soon as you're up against someone that knows how to fight you, Magicka Warden becomes a lesson in frustration.

usmguy1234

wheem_ESO wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

.

Thank you for the input but for the sake of argument can we keep this focused on pvp? I made the mistake of being baited off topic by the person I replied to. I will be more than willing to discuss the pvp implications with you if you choose too.

Then address my PvP oriented post from the first page.

If your suggestion were put in place, especially if the width of the Shalks targeting remained unchanged, no Mag Warden with a brain would run the ability anymore. So what would you suggest we replace it with, should we desire to actually land some kills from time to time? Are we supposed to just throw on Fetcher Infection, then use light attacks + a spammable to take people down?

As I said previously, I'm totally fine with the Shalks being nerfed in some capacity (though I still think your suggestion is absolutely the wrong way to do it), as long as there are other buffs/changes to compensate. Being forced to rely on the Shalks in order to have a chance at landing a kill works OK vs people that are either caught off guard, or aren't very good at the game, but as soon as you're up against someone that knows how to fight you, Magicka Warden becomes a lesson in frustration.

It seems like you are looking at this from a solo/small group mentality and I really pity you for that as I am a solo player as well. I can see where magdens would struggle in these situations but honestly most all mag specs do too. In group play wardens are some of the most formidable opponents you will face. I know that adjusting these skills will hurt solo players more than zerglings but I've had to change my mindset to believe that Zos never intended cyrodiil pvp for solo/small scale play; so, in that vein, I absolutely believe that assault and fissure are overperforming when taking in to account the rest of the wardens toolkit.

_Ahala_

Deep Fissure is overperforming considering the rest of the wardens toolkit? Cliff racer takes 1.6s to hit its mark which is too slow to reliably land against dodge rollers and too fast to combo with Fissure, Fletcher infection is too slow to reliably apply, bear just got a 30% nerf, and winters revenge is a ground based aoe with no unique secondary effect... I could understand if you think permafrost is op but that is a 200 cost ult that can be countered by stunning the caster and running away for 8s with snare immunity... Why as a solo player do you want to nerf Magden (worst solo class) while keeping Stamden (top tier solo class) relatively unchanged by making Scorch and morphs melee? Their are like a dozen Magden mains left on PC NA because it has already been nerfed into near nothing over the last few patches and yet you want Deep Fissure to be gutted... Has Magden seriously not been nerfed enough with the cliff racer dodgeable nerf, the cliff racer projectile speed no longer synergizing with fissure nerf, the fletcher infection reflectable nerf, the deep fissure stun loss nerf, the 60% bird of prey expedition buff uptime nerf, and the bear 30% damage nerf? If Magden gets some serious buffs to its damage capabilities through animal companion ability reworks and some new magicka scaling ice damage options in the winters embrace tree then I could get behind a nerf to Deep Fissure... but in its current state, Magden actually needs buffs instead of nerfs to bring it in line with other classes

CatchMeTrolling

I can agree magden gets better in groups, although that’s pretty much a Magicka thing. The thing about magden (outside of a healer and even still) is the fact if you get grouped with people who don’t know how to play or a premade you might be in for an annoying game.

My last 3 games on magden 9-0-26, 9-0-20 and 12-3-24. I’m sure there’s players that’ll see the score and think magdens are beast (9-0-20 game: 400k damage and 300k heals and the one with 26 assists had 900k damage and 300k heals) but they really just excel at aoe damage and off heals which is beneficial to group play but again it’s not exclusive to magden. Plus, nerfing fissure would ruin the group dps aspect. You don’t always want to be in melee range. You go melee range when it’s time to ult but your best range is the range of wall of elements. That’s dps magdens strength, melting players from a distance then closing in when everyone stacks.

usmguy1234

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Deep Fissure is overperforming considering the rest of the wardens toolkit? Cliff racer takes 1.6s to hit its mark which is too slow to reliably land against dodge rollers and too fast to combo with Fissure, Fletcher infection is too slow to reliably apply, bear just got a 30% nerf, and winters revenge is a ground based aoe with no unique secondary effect... I could understand if you think permafrost is op but that is a 200 cost ult that can be countered by stunning the caster and running away for 8s with snare immunity... Why as a solo player do you want to nerf Magden (worst solo class) while keeping Stamden (top tier solo class) relatively unchanged by making Scorch and morphs melee? Their are like a dozen Magden mains left on PC NA because it has already been nerfed into near nothing over the last few patches and yet you want Deep Fissure to be gutted... Has Magden seriously not been nerfed enough with the cliff racer dodgeable nerf, the cliff racer projectile speed no longer synergizing with fissure nerf, the fletcher infection reflectable nerf, the deep fissure stun loss nerf, the 60% bird of prey expedition buff uptime nerf, and the bear 30% damage nerf? If Magden gets some serious buffs to its damage capabilities through animal companion ability reworks and some new magicka scaling ice damage options in the winters embrace tree then I could get behind a nerf to Deep Fissure... but in its current state, Magden actually needs buffs instead of nerfs to bring it in line with other classes

No I definitely believe stamdens are much stronger than their magicka counterparts. It's just the magicka mains flooded the thread and the conversation has been about them. Trust me I'd rather be talking about stamdens. I really only added fissure because I didn't want to seem biased only against stam.

wheem_ESO

usmguy1234 wrote: »

It seems like you are looking at this from a solo/small group mentality and I really pity you for that as I am a solo player as well. I can see where magdens would struggle in these situations but honestly most all mag specs do too. In group play wardens are some of the most formidable opponents you will face. I know that adjusting these skills will hurt solo players more than zerglings but I've had to change my mindset to believe that Zos never intended cyrodiil pvp for solo/small scale play; so, in that vein, I absolutely believe that assault and fissure are overperforming when taking in to account the rest of the wardens toolkit.

If we ignore trips just for the golden vendor, I can count the number of times I've been to Cyrodiil over the last ~1.5 years on one hand. Virtually all of those trips have happened with a group of 4-7 players (including myself) during the past 2 weeks, and with that group the Shalks don't actually get used that much (hard to aim an ability like that when you're being zerged by like 19 people).

My main concern is Battlegrounds, where I do essentially all of my PvP. If Mag Warden's already not-so-good killing power was nerfed further, I'd either respec to dedicated healer or just quit playing again. There have been repeated nerfs to the Magicka Warden since Morrowind's release, even though all of the complaints about the class being overpowered really deal more with Stam builds instead.

For what it's worth, I think the main issue with Shalks potentially being overpowered at the moment comes from coordinated groups timing them to land with a Dawnbreaker Ult dump. That said, I think that Dawnbreaker Ult dumps in and of themselves are probably a bit too strong at the moment. I'd be fine with a redesign that would eliminate this stacking of AOE burst, but it also needs to help Mag Wardens out in some other way(s): reliable single target burst, single target pressure damage, having survivability and mobility that don't rely on a teammate positioning properly for me to Vine heal/pull to (ie, cross your fingers if solo queueing), and maybe some ability to actually chase down people that are trying to run away from me.

thoughtseize

I use zaans on my magden so i always want to be in melee range with everything anyway in BGs so it's whatever.

usmguy1234

wheem_ESO wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

It seems like you are looking at this from a solo/small group mentality and I really pity you for that as I am a solo player as well. I can see where magdens would struggle in these situations but honestly most all mag specs do too. In group play wardens are some of the most formidable opponents you will face. I know that adjusting these skills will hurt solo players more than zerglings but I've had to change my mindset to believe that Zos never intended cyrodiil pvp for solo/small scale play; so, in that vein, I absolutely believe that assault and fissure are overperforming when taking in to account the rest of the wardens toolkit.

If we ignore trips just for the golden vendor, I can count the number of times I've been to Cyrodiil over the last ~1.5 years on one hand. Virtually all of those trips have happened with a group of 4-7 players (including myself) during the past 2 weeks, and with that group the Shalks don't actually get used that much (hard to aim an ability like that when you're being zerged by like 19 people).

My main concern is Battlegrounds, where I do essentially all of my PvP. If Mag Warden's already not-so-good killing power was nerfed further, I'd either respec to dedicated healer or just quit playing again. There have been repeated nerfs to the Magicka Warden since Morrowind's release, even though all of the complaints about the class being overpowered really deal more with Stam builds instead.

For what it's worth, I think the main issue with Shalks potentially being overpowered at the moment comes from coordinated groups timing them to land with a Dawnbreaker Ult dump. That said, I think that Dawnbreaker Ult dumps in and of themselves are probably a bit too strong at the moment. I'd be fine with a redesign that would eliminate this stacking of AOE burst, but it also needs to help Mag Wardens out in some other way(s): reliable single target burst, single target pressure damage, having survivability and mobility that don't rely on a teammate positioning properly for me to Vine heal/pull to (ie, cross your fingers if solo queueing), and maybe some ability to actually chase down people that are trying to run away from me.

Think I need to go back to bgs. Cyrodiil is a laggy mess of endless stuns, roots and snares. I think you have some good points in your third paragraph. As I've been playing more of my Magplar, I can understand the frustration from lack of mobility. The sacrifice for mobility means I take a lot of damage from the combo you mentioned.

Witar

wheem_ESO wrote: »

with a group of 4-7 players (including myself) during the past 2 weeks, and with that group the Shalks don't actually get used that much (hard to aim an ability like that when you're being zerged by like 19 people).

Let me get this straight. You are not using ability with high level aoe potential in group play? What?
Also, leave my bugs alone they are fine as is.

LeHarrt91

Now i ask this with all seriousness, have you played a warden?

The shalk deal there damage in which ever direction your character is facing. In many cases you can immobilise and walk out of range. Deep Fissure should not be made melee, as it will make the recent change to Screaming Cliff Racer redundant. and if Subterranean Assault was made melee players can still gap close.
Maybe if the burst was reduced slightly and a 3 second dot was added to make up the missing damage, it may alleviate some of their PVP prowess.

_Ahala_

usmguy1234 wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Deep Fissure is overperforming considering the rest of the wardens toolkit? Cliff racer takes 1.6s to hit its mark which is too slow to reliably land against dodge rollers and too fast to combo with Fissure, Fletcher infection is too slow to reliably apply, bear just got a 30% nerf, and winters revenge is a ground based aoe with no unique secondary effect... I could understand if you think permafrost is op but that is a 200 cost ult that can be countered by stunning the caster and running away for 8s with snare immunity... Why as a solo player do you want to nerf Magden (worst solo class) while keeping Stamden (top tier solo class) relatively unchanged by making Scorch and morphs melee? Their are like a dozen Magden mains left on PC NA because it has already been nerfed into near nothing over the last few patches and yet you want Deep Fissure to be gutted... Has Magden seriously not been nerfed enough with the cliff racer dodgeable nerf, the cliff racer projectile speed no longer synergizing with fissure nerf, the fletcher infection reflectable nerf, the deep fissure stun loss nerf, the 60% bird of prey expedition buff uptime nerf, and the bear 30% damage nerf? If Magden gets some serious buffs to its damage capabilities through animal companion ability reworks and some new magicka scaling ice damage options in the winters embrace tree then I could get behind a nerf to Deep Fissure... but in its current state, Magden actually needs buffs instead of nerfs to bring it in line with other classes

No I definitely believe stamdens are much stronger than their magicka counterparts. It's just the magicka mains flooded the thread and the conversation has been about them. Trust me I'd rather be talking about stamdens. I really only added fissure because I didn't want to seem biased only against stam.

Ah, I see... thank you for explaining that

SodanTok

Nah, the last thing we need is to make one of two hard hitting stamina ranged abilities melee only. Everyone is running around with bleeds, tornado and dbos... but yes lets nerf range on sub assault so everyone running sub assault without bleeds, steel tornado and/or dbos cant do that anymore.

Balancing everything around top meta so only way to play anymore is to stay on the meta. The ESO Forum way

usmguy1234

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Now i ask this with all seriousness, have you played a warden?

The shalk deal there damage in which ever direction your character is facing. In many cases you can immobilise and walk out of range. Deep Fissure should not be made melee, as it will make the recent change to Screaming Cliff Racer redundant. and if Subterranean Assault was made melee players can still gap close.
Maybe if the burst was reduced slightly and a 3 second dot was added to make up the missing damage, it may alleviate some of their PVP prowess.

Making some of the damage a dot was also another idea that I entertained before making this thread. To be honest I'm fine with the damage because if you get caught with a sub/dawn combo as a dps you're pretty much dead. My problem is that the range is very deceptive imo. I'll think I'm at a safe range and it will go off and take off a nice chunk of health. 7-10k damage on a max resist build with 4.5k crit resist is pretty strong. And i realize that this is a mixture of l2p and being on console and not having nice shiny addons to give me a heads up. Like i said this really only an issue in large group fights. I've learned to try to stun and if i can't mist form away and reset the fight trying to line up burst with a successful cc. Tbh I wish there was a way to diminish strong skills such as these in a group setting but keep them strong in solo/ small scale scenarios.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

(unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.

For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

That may be true in pve but in pvp most magwardens are playing in melee range unless they are spamming birds from a zerg. The storm ultimate only has a 10 meter range and also follows your character. For deep fissure to have melee range would not be game breaking.

Permafrost has 10 meter radius????

... and they nerfed Destro Ultimate down to 8 meters, from 10 or 12 meters (I forget the exact radius it used to have... it was glorius though for PVE)... and it cost 250 ultimate... man, that makes me sad, since they mentioned they nerfed Destro Ultimate to be in tune with other aoe abilities of 8 meters... but Permafrost is 10 meters

usmguy1234

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

(unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.

For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

That may be true in pve but in pvp most magwardens are playing in melee range unless they are spamming birds from a zerg. The storm ultimate only has a 10 meter range and also follows your character. For deep fissure to have melee range would not be game breaking.

Permafrost has 10 meter radius????

... and they nerfed Destro Ultimate down to 8 meters, from 10 or 12 meters (I forget the exact radius it used to have... it was glorius though for PVE)... and it cost 250 ultimate... man, that makes me sad, since they mentioned they nerfed Destro Ultimate to be in tune with other aoe abilities of 8 meters... but Permafrost is 10 meters

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Permafrost

Unless this is wrong...

LeHarrt91

usmguy1234 wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Now i ask this with all seriousness, have you played a warden?

The shalk deal there damage in which ever direction your character is facing. In many cases you can immobilise and walk out of range. Deep Fissure should not be made melee, as it will make the recent change to Screaming Cliff Racer redundant. and if Subterranean Assault was made melee players can still gap close.
Maybe if the burst was reduced slightly and a 3 second dot was added to make up the missing damage, it may alleviate some of their PVP prowess.

Making some of the damage a dot was also another idea that I entertained before making this thread. To be honest I'm fine with the damage because if you get caught with a sub/dawn combo as a dps you're pretty much dead. My problem is that the range is very deceptive imo. I'll think I'm at a safe range and it will go off and take off a nice chunk of health. 7-10k damage on a max resist build with 4.5k crit resist is pretty strong. And i realize that this is a mixture of l2p and being on console and not having nice shiny addons to give me a heads up. Like i said this really only an issue in large group fights. I've learned to try to stun and if i can't mist form away and reset the fight trying to line up burst with a successful cc. Tbh I wish there was a way to diminish strong skills such as these in a group setting but keep them strong in solo/ small scale scenarios.

Ok i see what your meaning. If they were to ever adjust the range, it cannot be less than 15m due to other class skills that synergise with it and bow on a stamden.

LeHarrt91

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

(unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.

For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

That may be true in pve but in pvp most magwardens are playing in melee range unless they are spamming birds from a zerg. The storm ultimate only has a 10 meter range and also follows your character. For deep fissure to have melee range would not be game breaking.

Permafrost has 10 meter radius????

... and they nerfed Destro Ultimate down to 8 meters, from 10 or 12 meters (I forget the exact radius it used to have... it was glorius though for PVE)... and it cost 250 ultimate... man, that makes me sad, since they mentioned they nerfed Destro Ultimate to be in tune with other aoe abilities of 8 meters... but Permafrost is 10 meters

Yes Permafrost is 10m, and Eye of the Storm morph was reduced to 8m as it deals a lot more damage than permafrost. The other morph of the destro skill, Elemental Rage is still 10m.

LeHarrt91

Oh and the new Major Evasion does help a lot, by reducing AoE damage by 25% which is all most Wardens are atm.
Magicka can get this via, Spectre's Eye and Gossamer or the NB skill Blur.