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Sub Assault/ Deep Fissure Adjustment

usmguy1234
usmguy1234
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These skills need to be adjusted from 20 meters to melee range. I don't mind the skills doing a lot of damage or applying status effects but the hardest thing to counter is the range especially seeing that they follow the character around.
Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • ccmedaddy
    ccmedaddy
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    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)
    Edited by ccmedaddy on November 16, 2018 9:02PM
  • Metafae
    Metafae
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    The amount of times I have been knocked back right as the skill is about to go off, and instead all the shalks appear behind me instead of in front of me.
  • nsmurfer
    nsmurfer
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    One of the hardest hitting skills in the game, AoE, undodgeable, not an ultimate, Major Breach/Fracture. "Balanced"
    Edited by nsmurfer on November 16, 2018 9:03PM
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

    Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

    It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    Metafae wrote: »
    The amount of times I have been knocked back right as the skill is about to go off, and instead all the shalks appear behind me instead of in front of me.

    Problem becomes doing enough damage to them while avoiding ridiculously strong burst damage that costs next to nothing.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • ccmedaddy
    ccmedaddy
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

    Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

    It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.
    For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

    I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

    Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

    It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.
    For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

    I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

    That may be true in pve but in pvp most magwardens are playing in melee range unless they are spamming birds from a zerg. The storm ultimate only has a 10 meter range and also follows your character. For deep fissure to have melee range would not be game breaking.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

    Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

    It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.
    For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

    I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

    I don’t agree with nerfing range, I enjoy my magwarden because I can play melee and ranged at the same time.

    If anything the stam version should be less range but wouldn’t really make a difference.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

    Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

    It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.
    For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

    I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

    I don’t agree with nerfing range, I enjoy my magwarden because I can play melee and ranged at the same time.

    If anything the stam version should be less range but wouldn’t really make a difference.

    It's no different than a magplar having to utilize jabs when people get within melee range.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • ccmedaddy
    ccmedaddy
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    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

    Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

    It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.
    For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

    I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

    I don’t agree with nerfing range, I enjoy my magwarden because I can play melee and ranged at the same time.

    If anything the stam version should be less range but wouldn’t really make a difference.

    It's no different than a magplar having to utilize jabs when people get within melee range.

    Jabs is a melee skill that’s easier to spam. Fissure is delayed and easier to dodge. The only thing in common is the fact they both can hit in melee range.

  • ccmedaddy
    ccmedaddy
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ
    Good job, you found a parse. Now go google what numbers other classes are getting under the same circumstance, especially melee (stam) DPS.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    It's literally the easiest skill in the game to avoid. It's countered by using your brain. Come on.

    (unless this is a meme thread. in which case, yeah nerf magwardens)

    Yes and no. While it’s very easy to avoid in a 1v1 it because more problematic in bigger fights which is more common. If you catch people off guard with this skill you can pretty much wipe multiple people.

    It’s not as bad on a magwarden but on stam it’s easier to pull off.
    For the record, I don't think nerfing the range on sub assault would be that unreasonable.

    I'm mostly triggered by the ill-thought-out suggestion that Deep Fissure, the only class DPS skill worth using on the magwarden, should be made melee alongside sub assault when magwardens are designed to be ranged.

    I don’t agree with nerfing range, I enjoy my magwarden because I can play melee and ranged at the same time.

    If anything the stam version should be less range but wouldn’t really make a difference.

    It's no different than a magplar having to utilize jabs when people get within melee range.

    Jabs is a melee skill that’s easier to spam. Fissure is delayed and easier to dodge. The only thing in common is the fact they both can hit in melee range.

    What I was saying is they're both skills utilized for melee range fighting wasn't really trying to compare the two besides that point. (Also spamming jabs only successfully locks all of your skills due to a bug ;) )
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • booksmcread
    booksmcread
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    :D

  • _Ahala_
    _Ahala_
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    Making it melee range would hurt Magden way more than Stamden... ask yourself which one is top tier in PvP and which one is bottom tier in PvP... now ask yourself which one has a spamable that increases in damage with range... now ask yourself which one has access to a full melee toolkit available through weapons... by the way what’s with the whole nerf Magden cause they are spamming birds from a Zerg argument... is this a necro thread from Morrowind?
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ
    Good job, you found a parse. Now go google what numbers other classes are getting under the same circumstance, especially melee (stam) DPS.

    No I proved your argument is pure conjecture. This is a pvp discussion anyways.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • ccmedaddy
    ccmedaddy
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ
    Good job, you found a parse. Now go google what numbers other classes are getting under the same circumstance, especially melee (stam) DPS.

    No I proved your argument is pure conjecture. This is a pvp discussion anyways.
    lol no I'm objectively correct here regarding magwarden's place in the PvE meta and I'm just humoring you and your awful suggestions because I'm bored at work atm.

    The fact that you think you've "proven" anything with that one parse, which is lower than what other classes get under the same conditions, is just too funny..
  • frostz417
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    Since zos lacks any knowledge and competence to even nerf stam without shafting magden, id rather them just leave them alone as it is. Zos as proven multiple times they lack any knowledge to balance the game. This is the best it’ll be with major evasion reducing the entire stamdens damage by 25%
  • Brutusmax1mus
    Brutusmax1mus
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    Damage layering in general on warden is broken.
    Edited by Brutusmax1mus on November 17, 2018 12:51AM
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    Metafae wrote: »
    The amount of times I have been knocked back right as the skill is about to go off, and instead all the shalks appear behind me instead of in front of me.
    Yea, or using Flame Clench for the stun and having it bounce the target sideways and out of the path of your shalks.

    It's a strong ability, especially when layered with other big AOE damage, but I'd be just fine with nerfs + buffs to other things happening at the same time. It'd be great to have my Magicka Warden's offense decoupled from Deep Fissure, since it's such a huge pain to try and fight someone that actually knows how to counter you. Proper timing of stuns, knockbacks, Fears, roots, or just plain character movement (including standing right on top of you as much as possible) can all cause them to fail to land. I've also had to make my own shalks miss in order to change my facing to heal teammates, which is always fun.

    Making the abilities only hit in melee range would cause some negative effect on Stam Wardens, but would be a significant nerf to Magicka Wardens, especially if they weren't converted to being a full 180 degree frontal attack. It'd be that much easier for Stam builds to escape from me, and I'd also be at a significant disadvantage vs anything ranged. Would you expect me to cast Bird of Prey (for 4 seconds of Major Expedition) each time I wanted to actually have a chance at landing my Shalks against another Magicka class?
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ

    Can you please provide Magwarden open world videos without using Deep Fissure rather than target dunmy parses? That would bolster your implication that Magwardens are so strong, they'd do just fine with a nerf to this skill.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ

    Can you please provide Magwarden open world videos without using Deep Fissure rather than target dunmy parses? That would bolster your implication that Magwardens are so strong, they'd do just fine with a nerf to this skill.

    I will keep the subject on topic and focus on pvp. If you want to see how strong magden can be I suggest you look up a player named helium balloon. I don't think we need to discuss that stamden's layered damage is one of the most broken things second only to stamblades.
    Edited by usmguy1234 on November 17, 2018 2:06AM
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • WaltherCarraway
    WaltherCarraway
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ

    op but most of the time people don't dps parse target in PvP.
    Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ
    Good job, you found a parse. Now go google what numbers other classes are getting under the same circumstance, especially melee (stam) DPS.

    No I proved your argument is pure conjecture. This is a pvp discussion anyways.
    lol no I'm objectively correct here regarding magwarden's place in the PvE meta and I'm just humoring you and your awful suggestions because I'm bored at work atm.

    The fact that you think you've "proven" anything with that one parse, which is lower than what other classes get under the same conditions, is just too funny..

    Your original statement was that adjusting fissure would break magden in pve. I showed you a parse where a magden does 53k dps without fissure (more than adequate) and then you divert to saying that magden dps is lower than any other class. Maybe you should focus on doing a good job at work because your argument is severely lacking here.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ

    op but most of the time people don't dps parse target in PvP.

    True but people in the forum can't stay on topic either. I was trying to humor the guy saying that a fissure adjustment would break magdens in pve and I provided a more than adequate magden parse of 53k without using fissure.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    I’m not sure why either Mag or Stam Warden is being categorized as melee. All of their damage dealing skills are usable at long range (racer, shalks, bear). It’s the closest thing we have to a true ranged stamina build (just bow is a little weak compared to melee weapons). I disagree with the idea to take this away.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    I’m not sure why either Mag or Stam Warden is being categorized as melee. All of their damage dealing skills are usable at long range (racer, shalks, bear). It’s the closest thing we have to a true ranged stamina build (just bow is a little weak compared to melee weapons). I disagree with the idea to take this away.

    I respect your opinion but that is far from the truth in pvp.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    Wait, is this another Nerf thread? Mmmm....
    Edited by Trinity_Is_My_Name on November 17, 2018 4:26AM
  • ccmedaddy
    ccmedaddy
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    lol when 'magwardens need to be nerfed' is the hill you want to die on...

    Let me just say one more thing--nerfing the range on Deep Fissure would completely obliterate magwardens in PvE. It can't even compete with other ranged specs in terms of DPS--It won't stand a chance for melee spots in vet trials.

    Well here's a casual 53k parse on a 6mil dummy without fissure.

    https://youtu.be/z9fRHQjOvJQ
    Good job, you found a parse. Now go google what numbers other classes are getting under the same circumstance, especially melee (stam) DPS.

    No I proved your argument is pure conjecture. This is a pvp discussion anyways.
    lol no I'm objectively correct here regarding magwarden's place in the PvE meta and I'm just humoring you and your awful suggestions because I'm bored at work atm.

    The fact that you think you've "proven" anything with that one parse, which is lower than what other classes get under the same conditions, is just too funny..

    Your original statement was that adjusting fissure would break magden in pve. I showed you a parse where a magden does 53k dps without fissure (more than adequate) and then you divert to saying that magden dps is lower than any other class. Maybe you should focus on doing a good job at work because your argument is severely lacking here.
    Smh... Go watch the same player's magwarden parse on Murkmire and see how she not only slots Deep Fissure but also pretty much casts it on cool down. It's an essential magwarden DPS skill this patch due to the changes to the passive...

    I'm embarrassed for you at this point tbh.
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