How do you feel the shield changes have affected pvp?

MalagenR

Tasear,

The shield nerf was also a sustain and damage nerf. There is no other way to look at it. To build enough survivability in now you have to sacrifice sustain, in sacrificing sustain you either end up heavy attacking more often or try getting it back in other ways that result in you lowering your kill power significantly.

The unfair tilt is basically that stam builds can solo open world because they have great self heals, defense mechanisms for resetting fights but Sorc definitely has none of those things in open world pvp.

The HP cap should only apply in PVE.

Mintaka5

I agree with most of what @Biro123 said.

I've taken off both shields (dampen magic and hardened ward), and have sacrificed spell damage perks from gear for gear with more resistances built in. I've really just taken the route of increasing my magsorc's resistances across the board, held on to healing ward for shielding to but time for a heal from degeneration, and utilize more skills that deplete enemy resistances and health recovery. Gameplay feels wonky, and there is something not right. Especially when you consider that the skills on sorcs have changed where they feel clumsy, they tend to fault on activation, and have a lot of unexpected effects on rotation and unmentioned delays in cast time (I filed a support ticket about it).

Here's to another *** year of hunting down a new build. ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐, ZOS

Galarthor

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Lord-Otto

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Same goes for Crippling Grasp, which
- roots
- snares
- deals impact damage
- deals DoT
- grants caster Major Expedition
- grants caster Magicka Flood 8% max mag passive (sorcs need an otherwise useless slot skill for that)

Of course, that's because Nightblades are designed to have the most and best secondary effects on skills. And have the best passives. And highest burst. And highest sustained dps. And unique buffs. And unique debuffs. And unique defense. And good mobility. And good crowd control. And good stealth. And can make bombers. And can make gankers. And can make duelists. And can make off-healers. With a god tier pet to proc Necro. With many great arcane skills to proc Warmaiden. With sustainable dodge spam to use 7th or Fury or whatever, really.

Totally not overloaded, nope.

Emma_Overload

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

...

I haven't been hit by curse or crystal frags since the launch of murkmire. Literally very few sorcs in pvp including myself.... I've moved on to magplar. It is very strong this patch.

All the enemy sorcs on AD and EP that used to fight me regularly are GONE. On those rare occasions I do see a mag sorc, it's an easy-to-kill newbie who hasn't got the memo yet.

When I do get killed by the ubiquitous stam builds, I don't even get t-bagged anymore... they feel SORRY for my pitiful ass!

Galarthor

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Same goes for Crippling Grasp, which
- roots
- snares
- deals impact damage
- deals DoT
- grants caster Major Expedition
- grants caster Magicka Flood 8% max mag passive (sorcs need an otherwise useless slot skill for that)

Of course, that's because Nightblades are designed to have the most and best secondary effects on skills. And have the best passives. And highest burst. And highest sustained dps. And unique buffs. And unique debuffs. And unique defense. And good mobility. And good crowd control. And good stealth. And can make bombers. And can make gankers. And can make duelists. And can make off-healers. With a god tier pet to proc Necro. With many great arcane skills to proc Warmaiden. With sustainable dodge spam to use 7th or Fury or whatever, really.

Totally not overloaded, nope.

Wrobel's logic and reasoning are really solid!

Galarthor

@Tasear, will you bring these pain points to the attention of the Devs? Including those of the other topic that I linked, since they are part of your question as well.

Master_Kas

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Same goes for Crippling Grasp, which
- roots
- snares
- deals impact damage
- deals DoT
- grants caster Major Expedition
- grants caster Magicka Flood 8% max mag passive (sorcs need an otherwise useless slot skill for that)

Of course, that's because Nightblades are designed to have the most and best secondary effects on skills. And have the best passives. And highest burst. And highest sustained dps. And unique buffs. And unique debuffs. And unique defense. And good mobility. And good crowd control. And good stealth. And can make bombers. And can make gankers. And can make duelists. And can make off-healers. With a god tier pet to proc Necro. With many great arcane skills to proc Warmaiden. With sustainable dodge spam to use 7th or Fury or whatever, really.

Totally not overloaded, nope.

The sorc version of the forumblades here. The sky is not falling, good sorcs still kick a**. Noob ones cry in the forums Nerfing cripple? LOL

Lord-Otto

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Same goes for Crippling Grasp, which
- roots
- snares
- deals impact damage
- deals DoT
- grants caster Major Expedition
- grants caster Magicka Flood 8% max mag passive (sorcs need an otherwise useless slot skill for that)

Of course, that's because Nightblades are designed to have the most and best secondary effects on skills. And have the best passives. And highest burst. And highest sustained dps. And unique buffs. And unique debuffs. And unique defense. And good mobility. And good crowd control. And good stealth. And can make bombers. And can make gankers. And can make duelists. And can make off-healers. With a god tier pet to proc Necro. With many great arcane skills to proc Warmaiden. With sustainable dodge spam to use 7th or Fury or whatever, really.

Totally not overloaded, nope.

The sorc version of the forumblades here. The sky is not falling, good sorcs still kick a**. Noob ones cry in the forums Nerfing cripple? LOL

What a dumb argument. Good sorcs still beat bad players? Shocking. But ask those sorcs (which you're obviously not one of) how they fare against good players. Most will tell you that they have to work much harder for way less payoff.
Also, reading comprehension? Where did I say I wanted Cripple nerfed? I said that NBs are overloaded with effects, something ZOS have been taking away from sorcs for no good reason.
Please don't waste our time and let the real minds think.

Brutusmax1mus

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Runecage

Is ranged
Is a target (fear is only 2 ppl, what if there's more and it impacts 2 that aren't the ones you wanted)
Deals timed damage
Is a delayed stun
Heals the user for 4% hp
Can proc instant frags
Gives 2% spel dmg increase
Grants minor prophecy

Every skill looks good when you put it out like that. That makes runecage look op.

Galarthor

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Runecage

Is ranged
Is a target (fear is only 2 ppl, what if there's more and it impacts 2 that aren't the ones you wanted)
Deals timed damage
Is a delayed stun
Heals the user for 4% hp
Can proc instant frags
Gives 2% spel dmg increase
Grants minor prophecy

Every skill looks good when you put it out like that. That makes runecage look op.

Oh boy. Here let me help you understand:

1) Fights including a melee build are close quarter battles since gap closer > Gap opener, so range isn't really an arguement

2) When there are mutliple opponents around you you got a better chance at stunning your target using fear, which hits 2 targets, than using a targeted ability due to the size of the hit boxes (or whatever you want to call it) in this game. Hell fear gives you 2 stuns at the price of 1. Only in very few situations that is not extremely advantageous!

3) It only deals damage when you don't break the stun. And even then it is miniscule. Besides, if you don't break the stun you have other issues than a few hundred damage taken from the stun.

4) The usefulness of this attribute is very situational. In most situations you'd prefer an immediate stun. And the fact that this delayed stun is "announced" / telegraphed beforehand is completely f***ed up since it makes it the stun easiest to counter in the game. Fear is not telegraphed.

5) Heal is not bad, but NB off heal is cosiderably better.

6) It has CHANCE to proc it. NBs can get a GUARANTEED proc, so they don't need their other abilities to have such a proc chance. Really great deal ...

7) 2% more spell damage VS 10% damage reduction from passives... I wonder which is more valuable. Especially since the latter frees up a bar slot or monster set .... . Totally the same thing.

8) True. And Sorcs still got way fewer buffs and debuffs than NBs.


You are trying to make a bad deal look great. But the main difference is, my points regarding fear are universally true and it effects far more potent than what you listed.

1) Fear always stuns the target (if it is not stunimmune ofc, but that applies to all stuns)

2) Fear always slows the target (if it is not snare immune ofc, but that applies to all snares)

3) Fear always applies Minor Maim (15% damage reduction, which far outperforms the 2% spell damage + maybe 1k direct damage from rune cage) and that's on top of the 10% damage taken reduction from Major Ward and Major Resolve you get passively

4) There is no counter and you are not being warned in advance.

So no, some slight "buffs" and advantages that you get maybe are not equivalent to some of the most powerful buffs and advantages that you get definitely.

Lord-Otto

Oh, boy, do we have to bring up the classes' buffs and debuffs charts to clarify who's overloaded?

Beardimus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, I need yet another defensive set to compensate crit. It's doable, but this means even less sustain on a class people have already been struggling with sustain. And it means less damage, on the class that was supposed to be a glassy high-damage nuker.
Sorc/mage design in this game is just awful.

Spot on how i feel. Overall I'm harder to kill now, before if wards down pop i was dead. No resists, no impen.

But the trade off is sustain or damage or less mitigation (i.e. Well fitted gone) and I'm just unsure on that

I'll caveat I've only played a couple sessions

Lord-Otto

Beardimus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, I need yet another defensive set to compensate crit. It's doable, but this means even less sustain on a class people have already been struggling with sustain. And it means less damage, on the class that was supposed to be a glassy high-damage nuker.
Sorc/mage design in this game is just awful.

Spot on how i feel. Overall I'm harder to kill now, before if wards down pop i was dead. No resists, no impen.

But the trade off is sustain or damage or less mitigation (i.e. Well fitted gone) and I'm just unsure on that

I'll caveat I've only played a couple sessions

Basically, sorcs are being pushed to becoming tank builds. Every good sorc I've listened to has put more defense into his/her build. On a large scope, that might appear balanced, but it is so very far from what every RPGler is looking for in a mage class.

MalagenR

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Runecage

Is ranged
Is a target (fear is only 2 ppl, what if there's more and it impacts 2 that aren't the ones you wanted)
Deals timed damage
Is a delayed stun
Heals the user for 4% hp
Can proc instant frags
Gives 2% spel dmg increase
Grants minor prophecy

Every skill looks good when you put it out like that. That makes runecage look op.

Runecage doesn't deal damage unless it lasts the full duration... absolutely stupid.

MalagenR

Beardimus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, I need yet another defensive set to compensate crit. It's doable, but this means even less sustain on a class people have already been struggling with sustain. And it means less damage, on the class that was supposed to be a glassy high-damage nuker.
Sorc/mage design in this game is just awful.

Spot on how i feel. Overall I'm harder to kill now, before if wards down pop i was dead. No resists, no impen.

But the trade off is sustain or damage or less mitigation (i.e. Well fitted gone) and I'm just unsure on that

I'll caveat I've only played a couple sessions

You're not killing anyone good if you're building a tank, unless they are playing glass cannon blade builds and you get lucky and they don't just reset the fight every 20 seconds with cloaking.

It just isn't possible to hit 3k+ spell damage, 35% crit - and still build for sustain & tank. Mines + Streak is the only thing that we have as defense now that damage shields have been so ridiculously nerfed. Hardened Ward needs to be buffed. Maybe it should give Minor Intellect to help with Sustain on Sorc's? Or they should make our root actually worth slotting - not sure why the hell they chose major vitality, but the damage version should be buffed significantly to compete with frost staff root, if it gave Major Maim for 3 seconds or something everyone would use it, and it wouldn't be to ridiculously OP because we have very limited bar space for something like this.

This is the complete opposite of what Templars and DK's can do - their self heals are absolutely ridiculous - their durability when coupled with their sustain and ability to self heal + spam shock clench or whip is just insane.

Let's not talk about NB's. Everyone knows NB's are over performing, *** 20k Incap tool tips on 20k hp 36k stam and 2.2k stam regen builds, it's not even fair, especially because it's disease damage.

kaithuzar

IMO there are way less sorcs in Cyrodiil PC NA vivec.

BUT

The 3 or so running around that I run into are mostly god mode stronger than before.

The options I see here are:
1) they’re cheating; possibly but no proof
2) they’ve found a build that’s made them stronger than before; good on them although it’s probably cheese & needs tuned
3) the vast majority of pre-Murkmire sorcs were crutching on game-breakingly easy playstyle since launch; imagine if we had viper + velidreth since launch & it was never toned down; now their toys been taken away & they’re outraged at being told to git gud because they’ve never had to.

It could even be all 3 or any combination; fact is players gravitate to what’s easy b/c they just want to win, they don’t want to “try”.

kaithuzar

MalagenR wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, I need yet another defensive set to compensate crit. It's doable, but this means even less sustain on a class people have already been struggling with sustain. And it means less damage, on the class that was supposed to be a glassy high-damage nuker.
Sorc/mage design in this game is just awful.

Spot on how i feel. Overall I'm harder to kill now, before if wards down pop i was dead. No resists, no impen.

But the trade off is sustain or damage or less mitigation (i.e. Well fitted gone) and I'm just unsure on that

I'll caveat I've only played a couple sessions

You're not killing anyone good if you're building a tank, unless they are playing glass cannon blade builds and you get lucky and they don't just reset the fight every 20 seconds with cloaking.

It just isn't possible to hit 3k+ spell damage, 35% crit - and still build for sustain & tank. Mines + Streak is the only thing that we have as defense now that damage shields have been so ridiculously nerfed. Hardened Ward needs to be buffed. Maybe it should give Minor Intellect to help with Sustain on Sorc's? Or they should make our root actually worth slotting - not sure why the hell they chose major vitality, but the damage version should be buffed significantly to compete with frost staff root, if it gave Major Maim for 3 seconds or something everyone would use it, and it wouldn't be to ridiculously OP because we have very limited bar space for something like this.

This is the complete opposite of what Templars and DK's can do - their self heals are absolutely ridiculous - their durability when coupled with their sustain and ability to self heal + spam shock clench or whip is just insane.

Let's not talk about NB's. Everyone knows NB's are over performing, *** 20k Incap tool tips on 20k hp 36k stam and 2.2k stam regen builds, it's not even fair, especially because it's disease damage.

Actually those stats are highly possible considering you mean “fully buffed”, have you tried either molag kena or clever alchemist?

Have you tried infused or protective on jewelry?

Master_Kas

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Same goes for Crippling Grasp, which
- roots
- snares
- deals impact damage
- deals DoT
- grants caster Major Expedition
- grants caster Magicka Flood 8% max mag passive (sorcs need an otherwise useless slot skill for that)

Of course, that's because Nightblades are designed to have the most and best secondary effects on skills. And have the best passives. And highest burst. And highest sustained dps. And unique buffs. And unique debuffs. And unique defense. And good mobility. And good crowd control. And good stealth. And can make bombers. And can make gankers. And can make duelists. And can make off-healers. With a god tier pet to proc Necro. With many great arcane skills to proc Warmaiden. With sustainable dodge spam to use 7th or Fury or whatever, really.

Totally not overloaded, nope.

The sorc version of the forumblades here. The sky is not falling, good sorcs still kick a**. Noob ones cry in the forums Nerfing cripple? LOL

What a dumb argument. Good sorcs still beat bad players? Shocking. But ask those sorcs (which you're obviously not one of) how they fare against good players. Most will tell you that they have to work much harder for way less payoff.
Also, reading comprehension? Where did I say I wanted Cripple nerfed? I said that NBs are overloaded with effects, something ZOS have been taking away from sorcs for no good reason.
Please don't waste our time and let the real minds think.

I'm all for tuning down NBs but when you mentioned cripple is made me lol.

Don't put words in my mouth bru.

"Real minds" ? You're the loudest crying sorc on these forums. Which makes me believe you're not a very good one.

Minno

kaithuzar wrote: »

IMO there are way less sorcs in Cyrodiil PC NA vivec.

BUT

The 3 or so running around that I run into are mostly god mode stronger than before.

The options I see here are:
1) they’re cheating; possibly but no proof
2) they’ve found a build that’s made them stronger than before; good on them although it’s probably cheese & needs tuned
3) the vast majority of pre-Murkmire sorcs were crutching on game-breakingly easy playstyle since launch; imagine if we had viper + velidreth since launch & it was never toned down; now their toys been taken away & they’re outraged at being told to git gud because they’ve never had to.

It could even be all 3 or any combination; fact is players gravitate to what’s easy b/c they just want to win, they don’t want to “try”.

shields are stronger because they gave armor access to redcuing dmg first with impen dropping the modifer on the begining tooltip, instead of the old equation that made the damage hit your shield without crits but also without armor so you needed things like major protection which was harder to receive outside a few niche sets on a sorc.

Those changes alone made for some tanky shields.

kaithuzar

@Minno
I agree but don’t forget didn’t they also buff damage?

Minno

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Minno
I agree but don’t forget didn’t they also buff damage?

yea but this is a shield thread not a sorc thread.

visionality

Let's put this very simple: Due to the shield changes, "kill 20 sorcerers" has become a surprisingly time-consuming quest in Cyrodiil. Not because sorcs are so hard to kill but because living sorcs are so hard to find.

Gilvoth

it made the shields stronger for sorcs in PvP.
just being honest to the question this thread asks.

Lord-Otto

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Same goes for Crippling Grasp, which
- roots
- snares
- deals impact damage
- deals DoT
- grants caster Major Expedition
- grants caster Magicka Flood 8% max mag passive (sorcs need an otherwise useless slot skill for that)

Of course, that's because Nightblades are designed to have the most and best secondary effects on skills. And have the best passives. And highest burst. And highest sustained dps. And unique buffs. And unique debuffs. And unique defense. And good mobility. And good crowd control. And good stealth. And can make bombers. And can make gankers. And can make duelists. And can make off-healers. With a god tier pet to proc Necro. With many great arcane skills to proc Warmaiden. With sustainable dodge spam to use 7th or Fury or whatever, really.

Totally not overloaded, nope.

The sorc version of the forumblades here. The sky is not falling, good sorcs still kick a**. Noob ones cry in the forums Nerfing cripple? LOL

What a dumb argument. Good sorcs still beat bad players? Shocking. But ask those sorcs (which you're obviously not one of) how they fare against good players. Most will tell you that they have to work much harder for way less payoff.
Also, reading comprehension? Where did I say I wanted Cripple nerfed? I said that NBs are overloaded with effects, something ZOS have been taking away from sorcs for no good reason.
Please don't waste our time and let the real minds think.

I'm all for tuning down NBs but when you mentioned cripple is made me lol.

Don't put words in my mouth bru.

"Real minds" ? You're the loudest crying sorc on these forums. Which makes me believe you're not a very good one.

1. I am for tuning other classes UP, to match NBs. As is any sane player, really.
2. Ask DKs without wings how they feel about Cripple. You've obviously never dueled a good NB.
3. Or maybe I'm someone with knowledge, who doesn't hold back. Instead of insulting others without actually giving any insightful feedback, like you.
4. Yeah, that emoticon suits you.

Vapirko

ZOS definitely needs to roll back some of the shield changes. Hopefully they can start with the critable change. I think the caps are okay, because some people had absolutely way too many shields. Shield spam pet builds were a nightmare.

NupidStoob

Anyone who was crying because they couldn't kill me pre Murkmire will not even tickle me now. I lost damage to keep up sustain and bring up tankiness. As a result my playstyle has certainly changed. As I mostly play BGs I am more of a resto ult bot that secures kills with execute for the team.

I like being supportive so I don't really mind, but having to rely on a team of randoms to kill someone can be very frustrating.

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What I'm saying is that Wroebel STILL looks at the game on his blackboard only. He sees skills that fall out of his vision of order (Healing Ward and Frags being "overloaded" or whatever)...

Meanwhile Fear
1) Stuns you,
2) Slows you,
3) Applies Minor Main on you,
4) Has no counter (goes through dodge and block) and is not telegraphed prior (unlike Rune Cage).

Oh and it passively basically gives them Major Ward and Resolve ... you know the thing sorcs have to sacrifice a monster set (Chudan) or a bar slot (boundless)for.

But hey, it's a NB skill so we can't nerf that. Afterall, they are governed by a different standard!
If you look up double standards you'll find a picture of Wrobel!

Same goes for Crippling Grasp, which
- roots
- snares
- deals impact damage
- deals DoT
- grants caster Major Expedition
- grants caster Magicka Flood 8% max mag passive (sorcs need an otherwise useless slot skill for that)

Of course, that's because Nightblades are designed to have the most and best secondary effects on skills. And have the best passives. And highest burst. And highest sustained dps. And unique buffs. And unique debuffs. And unique defense. And good mobility. And good crowd control. And good stealth. And can make bombers. And can make gankers. And can make duelists. And can make off-healers. With a god tier pet to proc Necro. With many great arcane skills to proc Warmaiden. With sustainable dodge spam to use 7th or Fury or whatever, really.

Totally not overloaded, nope.

The sorc version of the forumblades here. The sky is not falling, good sorcs still kick a**. Noob ones cry in the forums Nerfing cripple? LOL

What a dumb argument. Good sorcs still beat bad players? Shocking. But ask those sorcs (which you're obviously not one of) how they fare against good players. Most will tell you that they have to work much harder for way less payoff.
Also, reading comprehension? Where did I say I wanted Cripple nerfed? I said that NBs are overloaded with effects, something ZOS have been taking away from sorcs for no good reason.
Please don't waste our time and let the real minds think.

I'm all for tuning down NBs but when you mentioned cripple is made me lol.

Don't put words in my mouth bru.

"Real minds" ? You're the loudest crying sorc on these forums. Which makes me believe you're not a very good one.

1. I am for tuning other classes UP, to match NBs. As is any sane player, really.
2. Ask DKs without wings how they feel about Cripple. You've obviously never dueled a good NB.
3. Or maybe I'm someone with knowledge, who doesn't hold back. Instead of insulting others without actually giving any insightful feedback, like you.
4. Yeah, that emoticon suits you.

1 isn't really a thing because while you can't make an argument of stamblade being the best class, (I think it's number 2) you can also make an argument for magblade being the worse class. So it's clearly not the nightblade class that's overperforming and it's something that stamblade has access to that magblade doesn't that's overperforming.

Your number 2 is like saying ask how a magblade without shade feels against talons. (Or even just how a magblade feels going against wings at all)

The thing is even with all the buffs and debuffs that magblades have access to the class is weak right now compared to other classes. That's because they lack key defensive abilities like a burst heal or class damage shields to either absorb damage or get you back to full after you take burst damage. magblades are lacking in both departments right now. Before the shield nerf they had that in annulment because one damage shield was strong enough to protect your health but that's no longer the case. Cloak can't function as a way to absorb damage and it's not really great for repositioning without snare removal. The only way I found it possible to play magblade is with heavy armor and switch the invisibility morph of Cloak to the healing morph

Lord-Otto

I will disagree. Magblade has most tools a sorc has and then some additional ones. All (shield) mag builds took a hit to burst defense, but magsorcs rely solely on that, whereas magblades don't.

Wings, Talons and Shade are all as (over)powered as Cripple. While Wings and Talons aren't overloaded with effects, they control the field extremely well and have to be considered in your enemy's build. Something you pointed out yourself. Cripple would control the field just fine as a ranged root, and bring a DoT. The addition of snare and Expedition makes it overloaded compared to... Hm, how about compared to Encase!

Anyways. My point was that Wrobel keeps nerfing skills with the justification that he doesn't want "overloaded" skills. Balance, IMO, really takes a secondary place within that mentality. So Frags lost their stun. But he is very hesitant to apply the same principle to NBs, and that is frustrating. If it were for me, ZOS could drop their weird mantras and look at how the classes actually perform and what the original design behind them means.

TheRealSniker

Good Magsorcs feel alot tankier, bad magsorcs feel like paper compared to previous patch