Armor Penetration and how it works?

Rteqh

Hey im Tank and heading to the high end game content
and what I see is that it is better to go supportiv as Tanky to some point
and I do not dislike that but I wonder how the formula to spell and armor pen works whats about the caps of enemies and how much percentage those are
what I saw now is a mop usually gets like 16k Armor and spell resi
player cap is roundabout 3.3-3.5k im not sure anymore can any1 help me out?
ty
sry for the bad English isn't my mother language.

SaintSubwayy

Armorcap for most PVE monsters is at 18200 Spell and Physical Resistance.
Some monsters have less Resistance (vMA for example, there some have lower resistances)

The cap for players isnt at 3.3-3.5k , It depends on which Sets you're wearing, mundus you use, CP distribution, and acces to Penetration you have.

So as a Tank you can contribiute your fare share in Penetration aswell, sets like Roar of Alkosh, Infused torugs Crusher enchant, Major Breach and Fracture.
Other Forms of DPS increase are also possible, Engulfing Flames as a DK (if no mag DK arround) increases all Firedmg the boss takes by 10% (before resistance is calculated in).

I unfortunately dont have the formla, so cant help you out there, but im sure someone can.

Nerftheforums

662 resistances equal to 1% mitigation. If I remeber correctly the values is different in pve (pvper here, zorry). I suggest to take a look at old Gilliam the Rogue's video or the ones from Theasiangod. They explain the whole issue very well.
Mobs have 18.2k resistances.
Players cap resistances at 33.1k.

If you are interested in crit: crit resistance is useless in pve, while the max amount you would aim for in pvp is 4.7k, which will mitigate up to 70% of the taken crit damage if I remeber correctly.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@SaintSubwayy the armor cap for players is 33,000, which is 50% reduction, beyond that you get no more reduction in damage, unless the player that is attacking you has pen, then they have to go though the armor you have above 33k to increase the damage they do to you, otherwise you will always take 50% less damage, no matter if you have 34k armor or 60k.

Overland mobs have 9100 armor. All dungeon/trial/areana mobs have 18200 as you said, except for vma. There it varies between 9100, 12500 and 18200.

The "formula" is that in pve, every 500 armor you penetrate, you get 1% damage back. So the max is 36.4%, if the mob has 18200 and you fully penetrate the mobs resistance.

dpencil1

There are three levels of resistances that mobs can have:
9100 - overland, including delves and public dungeons
12100 - most of the mobs in vet Maelstrom
18200 - mobs in dungeons and trials, and world bosses

As a tank, the last number is most important, as you will usually be doing group content where the mobs have 18200 resistence.

There is no cap on how much penetration a player can stack, but there are diminishing returns (the first 1000 penetration accomplishes a lot more than the last 1000 penetration on the way to 18200). Even so, most end game players will try to get as close to 18200 as they can without going over, as any more would be a waste. There is a general expectation that someone in the group (usually a tank or healer) will use a skill that applies Major Fracture/Breach to the target. That's 5280 penetration the group members don't have to worry about getting for themselves. Many tanks also use a Crushed enchantment on their weapon, which reduces the mob resistance further. Using an Infused weapon will increase the enchant's potency, as will wearing the Toruge's Pact armor set.

When group members know how much additional penetration is being provided for them, they can adjust their Champion Points accordingly, which increases the overall strength of the group.

SaintSubwayy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SaintSubwayy the armor cap for players is 33,000, which is 50% reduction, beyond that you get no more reduction in damage, unless the player that is attacking you has pen, then they have to go though the armor you have above 33k to increase the damage they do to you, otherwise you will always take 50% less damage, no matter if you have 34k armor or 60k.

Overland mobs have 9100 armor. All dungeon/trial/areana mobs have 18200 as you said, except for vma. There it varies between 9100, 12500 and 18200.

The "formula" is that in pve, every 500 armor you penetrate, you get 1% damage back. So the max is 36.4%, if the mob has 18200 and you fully penetrate the mobs resistance.

Well he didnt ask for player armor cap, or did I miss that?
But thx for the update anyways ^^

Ah didnt know that there is a difference between overland and Instanced Areas (Trial, dungeons ect) so learned something there

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SaintSubwayy the armor cap for players is 33,000, which is 50% reduction, beyond that you get no more reduction in damage, unless the player that is attacking you has pen, then they have to go though the armor you have above 33k to increase the damage they do to you, otherwise you will always take 50% less damage, no matter if you have 34k armor or 60k.

Overland mobs have 9100 armor. All dungeon/trial/areana mobs have 18200 as you said, except for vma. There it varies between 9100, 12500 and 18200.

The "formula" is that in pve, every 500 armor you penetrate, you get 1% damage back. So the max is 36.4%, if the mob has 18200 and you fully penetrate the mobs resistance.

Well he didnt ask for player armor cap, or did I miss that?
But thx for the update anyways ^^

Ah didnt know that there is a difference between overland and Instanced Areas (Trial, dungeons ect) so learned something there

The op did not ask, this is true, but when you say-

. The cap for players isnt at 3.3-3.5k , It depends on which Sets you're wearing, mundus you use, CP distribution, and acces to Penetration you have.

You are implying that the armor cap is different for all players, as your first paragraph about armor resistance, not penetration. Player resistance is caped. At 33k, players penetration is not capped. You can stack as much as the game allows and if the target has that much armor, you will penetrate.

This confusion, on my part I admit, probably stems from the ops non native English

SaintSubwayy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SaintSubwayy the armor cap for players is 33,000, which is 50% reduction, beyond that you get no more reduction in damage, unless the player that is attacking you has pen, then they have to go though the armor you have above 33k to increase the damage they do to you, otherwise you will always take 50% less damage, no matter if you have 34k armor or 60k.

Overland mobs have 9100 armor. All dungeon/trial/areana mobs have 18200 as you said, except for vma. There it varies between 9100, 12500 and 18200.

The "formula" is that in pve, every 500 armor you penetrate, you get 1% damage back. So the max is 36.4%, if the mob has 18200 and you fully penetrate the mobs resistance.

Well he didnt ask for player armor cap, or did I miss that?
But thx for the update anyways ^^

Ah didnt know that there is a difference between overland and Instanced Areas (Trial, dungeons ect) so learned something there

The op did not ask, this is true, but when you say-

. The cap for players isnt at 3.3-3.5k , It depends on which Sets you're wearing, mundus you use, CP distribution, and acces to Penetration you have.

You are implying that the armor cap is different for all players, as your first paragraph about armor resistance, not penetration. Player resistance is caped. At 33k, players penetration is not capped. You can stack as much as the game allows and if the target has that much armor, you will penetrate.

This confusion, on my part I admit, probably stems from the ops non native English

ah i was srefering to the penetration cap

should have made that clearer ^^

well bmaybe next time xD

Rteqh

ty for this feedback helped me out very well

malicia

@Rteqh
Look at this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1

It is very useful to determine what further damage mitigation will be sensible or useful for you as tank. It also explains the principles of how penetration works in ESO pretty well. The same principles applying to players generally applies to mobs as well.

Rteqh

thats great thank you very mutch

Minno

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SaintSubwayy the armor cap for players is 33,000, which is 50% reduction, beyond that you get no more reduction in damage, unless the player that is attacking you has pen, then they have to go though the armor you have above 33k to increase the damage they do to you, otherwise you will always take 50% less damage, no matter if you have 34k armor or 60k.

Overland mobs have 9100 armor. All dungeon/trial/areana mobs have 18200 as you said, except for vma. There it varies between 9100, 12500 and 18200.

The "formula" is that in pve, every 500 armor you penetrate, you get 1% damage back. So the max is 36.4%, if the mob has 18200 and you fully penetrate the mobs resistance.

Well he didnt ask for player armor cap, or did I miss that?
But thx for the update anyways ^^

Ah didnt know that there is a difference between overland and Instanced Areas (Trial, dungeons ect) so learned something there

The op did not ask, this is true, but when you say-

. The cap for players isnt at 3.3-3.5k , It depends on which Sets you're wearing, mundus you use, CP distribution, and acces to Penetration you have.

You are implying that the armor cap is different for all players, as your first paragraph about armor resistance, not penetration. Player resistance is caped. At 33k, players penetration is not capped. You can stack as much as the game allows and if the target has that much armor, you will penetrate.

This confusion, on my part I admit, probably stems from the ops non native English

Yea, armor in pvp has a cap at 50% or 33k. But in PVP, you frequently run into penetration builds so its highly unlikely you'll be at armor cap (unless you give up dmg or sustain to reach it.)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Minno wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SaintSubwayy the armor cap for players is 33,000, which is 50% reduction, beyond that you get no more reduction in damage, unless the player that is attacking you has pen, then they have to go though the armor you have above 33k to increase the damage they do to you, otherwise you will always take 50% less damage, no matter if you have 34k armor or 60k.

Overland mobs have 9100 armor. All dungeon/trial/areana mobs have 18200 as you said, except for vma. There it varies between 9100, 12500 and 18200.

The "formula" is that in pve, every 500 armor you penetrate, you get 1% damage back. So the max is 36.4%, if the mob has 18200 and you fully penetrate the mobs resistance.

Well he didnt ask for player armor cap, or did I miss that?
But thx for the update anyways ^^

Ah didnt know that there is a difference between overland and Instanced Areas (Trial, dungeons ect) so learned something there

The op did not ask, this is true, but when you say-

. The cap for players isnt at 3.3-3.5k , It depends on which Sets you're wearing, mundus you use, CP distribution, and acces to Penetration you have.

You are implying that the armor cap is different for all players, as your first paragraph about armor resistance, not penetration. Player resistance is caped. At 33k, players penetration is not capped. You can stack as much as the game allows and if the target has that much armor, you will penetrate.

This confusion, on my part I admit, probably stems from the ops non native English

Yea, armor in pvp has a cap at 50% or 33k. But in PVP, you frequently run into penetration builds so its highly unlikely you'll be at armor cap (unless you give up dmg or sustain to reach it.)

100% agree, that is why i stated this in one of my previous posts-

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@SaintSubwayy the armor cap for players is 33,000, which is 50% reduction, beyond that you get no more reduction in damage, unless the player that is attacking you has pen, then they have to go through the armor you have above 33k to increase the damage they do to you, otherwise you will always take 50% less damage, no matter if you have 34k armor or 60k.

paulsimonps

malicia wrote: »

@Rteqh
Look at this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1

It is very useful to determine what further damage mitigation will be sensible or useful for you as tank. It also explains the principles of how penetration works in ESO pretty well. The same principles applying to players generally applies to mobs as well.

@malicia
Damn you beat me to linking my own thread

starkerealm

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

ah i was srefering to the penetration cap

The short version is, that there's no such thing as a penetration cap. However, there's also no overpenetration effect. So, once you reduce the target's resistances to zero, there's no benefit to additional pen beyond that. Also remember some debuffs like breach and fracture also reduce a target's resistances, so anyone damaging the target benefits from those.