Two focused aims hit in the same second

LegacyDM

So. Combat log shows two hits with focused aim in the same second by the same person. What's up? I'm not sure where I got hit from, but I think it was from the wall. Wasn't like the person was 1 meter in from of me.

https://flic.kr/p/2cQDZBa

geonsocal

got caught a couple of times by this today - the lag is real...

Creationofgod

same in bg , and there is noway to counter it !

16k burst damage in a matter of 2 seconds before you can react your dead!

Theignson

I got hit by a NB with 44k damage in 1.1 second: focused aim, incap , light attack, bash and poisoned weapon all at once (26k) then a 14k killers blade plus light attack . All were critical hits (7/7). I had 31k hp, 810 CP, 20k resists, 2800 critical resistance.

Hard to imagine how, on a laggy battlefield, you could cast Focused aim (1.1 sec plus a buggy animation that is hard to cancel), then run to the opponent so that your incap (has to be within 5 meters) lands within 1/10 of a second as the focused aim, plus do your light attack and bash in the same 1/10 of a second. Then since the opponent is stunned and defiled, execute.
But ZOS thinks this is "balanced"
About as balanced as the skinny guy who cold *** you in the bar. If you don't fall down, he runs out the door (cloak)

Xeniph

Theignson wrote: »

I got hit by a NB with 44k damage in 1.1 second: focused aim, incap , light attack, bash and poisoned weapon all at once (26k) then a 14k killers blade plus light attack . All were critical hits (7/7). I had 31k hp, 810 CP, 20k resists, 2800 critical resistance.

Hard to imagine how, on a laggy battlefield, you could cast Focused aim (1.1 sec plus a buggy animation that is hard to cancel), then run to the opponent so that your incap (has to be within 5 meters) lands within 1/10 of a second as the focused aim, plus do your light attack and bash in the same 1/10 of a second. Then since the opponent is stunned and defiled, execute.
But ZOS thinks this is "balanced"
About as balanced as the skinny guy who cold *** you in the bar. If you don't fall down, he runs out the door (cloak)

Uhh...

This was all casted in your face. The attacker didn't have to "run to you" after a snipe. He likely canceled snipe with incap (at the proper time) then canceled incap with the light+bash, of coarse all these have a chance to proc enchants and poisons.

Theignson

[/quote]
Uhh...

This was all casted in your face. The attacker didn't have to "run to you" after a snipe. He likely canceled snipe with incap (at the proper time) then canceled incap with the light+bash, of coarse all these have a chance to proc enchants and poisons.[/quote]

I never saw him and just dropped dead. Presumably he was cloaked/stealthed . Snipe has both a cast time and a flight time. So you are saying he was within 5 meters cloaked/stealthed, was able to cast for 1.1 seconds cloaked/stealthed without becoming uncloaked, then, since there is no flight time, hit me with incap within 0.1 seconds of snipe animation ending? Human reaction time is ~0.2 seconds.
Then, how can you cancel incap with 2 melee skills at once? Are you saying you can ani cancel incap with light attack and bash and have all 3 skills hit within 0.1 seconds? I know you can ani cancel with light attack, but the next melee should have a GCD of 1 sec.
Its a broken mechanic that relies, of course, on stealth/cloak with its crit/weapon damage bonuses, plus concealment, plus escape all rolled up in one.

idk

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Asmael

WTB desync fix for snipe.

Fix incoming somewhere in 2025. Brace yerrselves people.

Theignson wrote: »

I got hit by a NB with 44k damage in 1.1 second: focused aim, incap , light attack, bash and poisoned weapon all at once (26k) then a 14k killers blade plus light attack . All were critical hits (7/7). I had 31k hp, 810 CP, 20k resists, 2800 critical resistance.

Hard to imagine how, on a laggy battlefield, you could cast Focused aim (1.1 sec plus a buggy animation that is hard to cancel), then run to the opponent so that your incap (has to be within 5 meters) lands within 1/10 of a second as the focused aim, plus do your light attack and bash in the same 1/10 of a second. Then since the opponent is stunned and defiled, execute.
But ZOS thinks this is "balanced"
About as balanced as the skinny guy who cold *** you in the bar. If you don't fall down, he runs out the door (cloak)

@Theignson

The NB gets in melee range, no need to run towards you. Abilities have a GCD of slightly less than 1 second, but counts as starting from the moment when you start casting it, hence why the moment a Snipe is fired, another instant ability (Incap in this case) can be landed. Light attacks and bashes are on a separate cooldown.

The ganking went as such, starting in melee range:
0.00: Starting to cast Snipe, the user is still cloaked (Skill GCD starts here)
0.80~ Snipe traveling to you. Bow Light attack + Incap + bash quickly chained.
0.85~ Incap lands first due to being instant, quickly followed by the light attack, snipe and bash, as well as a proc enchant. Skill GCD is reset since 0.8~ seconds have passed.
1.00~ Bow light attack > Killer's blade > Bash again.

Welcome back to respawn area.

Me blowing up a squishy with a poorly optimised bow build, 18.8k damage in 1.2s at 15m or so:


A proper ganking stamblade below (take a look at the first kill and the abilities on the right, slow down if need be):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7DHQ10x9PM

Xeniph

Theignson wrote: »

Uhh...

This was all casted in your face. The attacker didn't have to "run to you" after a snipe. He likely canceled snipe with incap (at the proper time) then canceled incap with the light+bash, of coarse all these have a chance to proc enchants and poisons.[/quote]

I never saw him and just dropped dead. Presumably he was cloaked/stealthed . Snipe has both a cast time and a flight time. So you are saying he was within 5 meters cloaked/stealthed, was able to cast for 1.1 seconds cloaked/stealthed without becoming uncloaked, then, since there is no flight time, hit me with incap within 0.1 seconds of snipe animation ending? Human reaction time is ~0.2 seconds.
Then, how can you cancel incap with 2 melee skills at once? Are you saying you can ani cancel incap with light attack and bash and have all 3 skills hit within 0.1 seconds? I know you can ani cancel with light attack, but the next melee should have a GCD of 1 sec.
Its a broken mechanic that relies, of course, on stealth/cloak with its crit/weapon damage bonuses, plus concealment, plus escape all rolled up in one.[/quote]

That's exactly what I am saying.

You should probably roll a NB and play around with it. That would help you understand what happened.

However, just to give you an example. You can cast snipe 2 times before cloak wears off (as long as neither hit during the wind up)

And you can cloak standing on top of an enemy and not be revealed unless they are actively doing something to reveal you. (ie..AOE's, Magelight or detection pots.)

This is simply a case of not understanding how it all works and disagreeing with the fact it even works like this.

Edit- Oh, btw as a helpful hint. You can mash the canceling ability during any cast time and it will fire as soon as the system registers the required minimum animation to fire it. (does not work with heavy attacks)

Theignson

Asmael wrote: »

WTB desync fix for snipe.

Fix incoming somewhere in 2025. Brace yerrselves people.

Theignson wrote: »

I got hit by a NB with 44k damage in 1.1 second: focused aim, incap , light attack, bash and poisoned weapon all at once (26k) then a 14k killers blade plus light attack . All were critical hits (7/7). I had 31k hp, 810 CP, 20k resists, 2800 critical resistance.

Hard to imagine how, on a laggy battlefield, you could cast Focused aim (1.1 sec plus a buggy animation that is hard to cancel), then run to the opponent so that your incap (has to be within 5 meters) lands within 1/10 of a second as the focused aim, plus do your light attack and bash in the same 1/10 of a second. Then since the opponent is stunned and defiled, execute.
But ZOS thinks this is "balanced"
About as balanced as the skinny guy who cold *** you in the bar. If you don't fall down, he runs out the door (cloak)

@Theignson



The ganking went as such, starting in melee range:
0.00: Starting to cast Snipe, the user is still cloaked (Skill GCD starts here)
0.80~ Snipe traveling to you. Bow Light attack + Incap + bash quickly chained.
0.85~ Incap lands first due to being instant, quickly followed by the light attack, snipe and bash, as well as a proc enchant. Skill GCD is reset since 0.8~ seconds have passed.
1.00~ Bow light attack > Killer's blade > Bash again.

Welcome back to respawn area.

Problem in your timing, snipe has 1.1 sec cast time. You have casting starting at 0 secs and it landing at 0.8 seconds. Maybe this works:

0:00 start casting snipe from within 5 meters range in stealth.
1.1 seconds snipe cast time ends. Ani cancel with incap. Incap and snipe land same time.
1,2 light attack/bash to ani cancle incap, so snipe, incap, light atack/bash all land at same time?

But I assume to ani cancel incap and get both light attack /bash to land, you go: light att/incap/bash. But how do you time this with the snipe cast ending?
Why doesn't standing up and casting snipe for 1.1 seconds bring you out of cloak when you are within 5 meters?

I think best explanation is that on client side I had lag and it all hit at once

LegacyDM

idk wrote: »

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Yet its got a 1.1 sec cast time and as you can see my ping is not bad enough to warrant that kind of delay. I might agree with you if my ping was registering above 300+ I've been playing this game since launch and never had a skill land twice in the same second except for snipe. This skill is so buggy and BS. ZoS really needs to take a look at this mechanic.

I've gone up against good players who were able to chain attacks (e.g., beetles, HA, WB, DBoS), but never hit two of the same skill at the same time let alone one with a 1.1 sec cast time in the same second. I've got all kind of screen shots and videos from strange things but never anything in the same second.

If lag is the case, why is Focused Aim the only skill that is affected by lag allowing two hits in the same second?

Marcus684

#balanced

LegacyDM

Theignson wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

WTB desync fix for snipe.

Fix incoming somewhere in 2025. Brace yerrselves people.

Theignson wrote: »

I got hit by a NB with 44k damage in 1.1 second: focused aim, incap , light attack, bash and poisoned weapon all at once (26k) then a 14k killers blade plus light attack . All were critical hits (7/7). I had 31k hp, 810 CP, 20k resists, 2800 critical resistance.

Hard to imagine how, on a laggy battlefield, you could cast Focused aim (1.1 sec plus a buggy animation that is hard to cancel), then run to the opponent so that your incap (has to be within 5 meters) lands within 1/10 of a second as the focused aim, plus do your light attack and bash in the same 1/10 of a second. Then since the opponent is stunned and defiled, execute.
But ZOS thinks this is "balanced"
About as balanced as the skinny guy who cold *** you in the bar. If you don't fall down, he runs out the door (cloak)

@Theignson



The ganking went as such, starting in melee range:
0.00: Starting to cast Snipe, the user is still cloaked (Skill GCD starts here)
0.80~ Snipe traveling to you. Bow Light attack + Incap + bash quickly chained.
0.85~ Incap lands first due to being instant, quickly followed by the light attack, snipe and bash, as well as a proc enchant. Skill GCD is reset since 0.8~ seconds have passed.
1.00~ Bow light attack > Killer's blade > Bash again.

Welcome back to respawn area.

Problem in your timing, snipe has 1.1 sec cast time. You have casting starting at 0 secs and it landing at 0.8 seconds. Maybe this works:

0:00 start casting snipe from within 5 meters range in stealth.
1.1 seconds snipe cast time ends. Ani cancel with incap. Incap and snipe land same time.
1,2 light attack/bash to ani cancle incap, so snipe, incap, light atack/bash all land at same time?

But I assume to ani cancel incap and get both light attack /bash to land, you go: light att/incap/bash. But how do you time this with the snipe cast ending?
Why doesn't standing up and casting snipe for 1.1 seconds bring you out of cloak when you are within 5 meters?

I think best explanation is that on client side I had lag and it all hit at once

Maybe @Theignson instance but not mine. Never got hit with an incap or a bash, and I'm pretty sure the guy up on the upper left on the wall is the guy that focused aimed me. There was no one on the ground except for the templar I was fighting. I mean, a ping of 190 is not good for FPS and wouldn't want to play overwatch, but in this environment, it is more than playable. Certainly, not enough to warrant freezes and dsynchs that you would see at 999+.

Royaji

Theignson wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

WTB desync fix for snipe.

Fix incoming somewhere in 2025. Brace yerrselves people.

Theignson wrote: »

I got hit by a NB with 44k damage in 1.1 second: focused aim, incap , light attack, bash and poisoned weapon all at once (26k) then a 14k killers blade plus light attack . All were critical hits (7/7). I had 31k hp, 810 CP, 20k resists, 2800 critical resistance.

Hard to imagine how, on a laggy battlefield, you could cast Focused aim (1.1 sec plus a buggy animation that is hard to cancel), then run to the opponent so that your incap (has to be within 5 meters) lands within 1/10 of a second as the focused aim, plus do your light attack and bash in the same 1/10 of a second. Then since the opponent is stunned and defiled, execute.
But ZOS thinks this is "balanced"
About as balanced as the skinny guy who cold *** you in the bar. If you don't fall down, he runs out the door (cloak)

@Theignson



The ganking went as such, starting in melee range:
0.00: Starting to cast Snipe, the user is still cloaked (Skill GCD starts here)
0.80~ Snipe traveling to you. Bow Light attack + Incap + bash quickly chained.
0.85~ Incap lands first due to being instant, quickly followed by the light attack, snipe and bash, as well as a proc enchant. Skill GCD is reset since 0.8~ seconds have passed.
1.00~ Bow light attack > Killer's blade > Bash again.

Welcome back to respawn area.

Problem in your timing, snipe has 1.1 sec cast time. You have casting starting at 0 secs and it landing at 0.8 seconds. Maybe this works:

0:00 start casting snipe from within 5 meters range in stealth.
1.1 seconds snipe cast time ends. Ani cancel with incap. Incap and snipe land same time.
1,2 light attack/bash to ani cancle incap, so snipe, incap, light atack/bash all land at same time?

But I assume to ani cancel incap and get both light attack /bash to land, you go: light att/incap/bash. But how do you time this with the snipe cast ending?
Why doesn't standing up and casting snipe for 1.1 seconds bring you out of cloak when you are within 5 meters?

I think best explanation is that on client side I had lag and it all hit at once

Casting snipe does not bring you out of cloak. Only the actual act of dealing damage will break cloak. And snipe has a flight time, even from point blank. This is a very basic gank combo. Cloak, Snipe , LA, Incap, Bash. If done correctly Incap lands a bit before snipe and buffs it's damage.

idk

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Yet its got a 1.1 sec cast time and as you can see my ping is not bad enough to warrant that kind of delay. I might agree with you if my ping was registering above 300+ I've been playing this game since launch and never had a skill land twice in the same second except for snipe. This skill is so buggy and BS. ZoS really needs to take a look at this mechanic.

I've gone up against good players who were able to chain attacks (e.g., beetles, HA, WB, DBoS), but never hit two of the same skill at the same time let alone one with a 1.1 sec cast time in the same second. I've got all kind of screen shots and videos from strange things but never anything in the same second.

If lag is the case, why is Focused Aim the only skill that is affected by lag allowing two hits in the same second?

Ping is far from the defining aspect of lag. It in no way measures server lag.

So everything you said here is irrelevant to what you replied to.

LegacyDM

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Yet its got a 1.1 sec cast time and as you can see my ping is not bad enough to warrant that kind of delay. I might agree with you if my ping was registering above 300+ I've been playing this game since launch and never had a skill land twice in the same second except for snipe. This skill is so buggy and BS. ZoS really needs to take a look at this mechanic.

I've gone up against good players who were able to chain attacks (e.g., beetles, HA, WB, DBoS), but never hit two of the same skill at the same time let alone one with a 1.1 sec cast time in the same second. I've got all kind of screen shots and videos from strange things but never anything in the same second.

If lag is the case, why is Focused Aim the only skill that is affected by lag allowing two hits in the same second?

Ping is far from the defining aspect of lag. It in no way measures server lag.

So everything you said here is irrelevant to what you replied to.

I disagree. Ping is an indication of lag. Higher the ping the worse the lag. Lower the ping the smoother the game. As the game servers are delayed in responding to the client it is reflected in your in game ping value. When its primetime and the masses of people are all stacked up defending or attacking a keep the ping goes up. The servers can't handle the density within that quadrant and are delayed in responding to your client. That is why everyone gets lag and people see red pings. When its 2am in the morning on a weekday and no one is around ping is way down. There is absolutely a tie between server performance and ping rate. But regardless, at this particular time I was not lagging. I was fighting a templar and it was smooth.

Ping is also an indication of Internet congestion and the time it takes for your connection to reach its destination. Which is why people in Australia get a ping of 300+ and the game is sluggish for them. But I assure you I have good Internet and there was no congestion because my ping was 190 which is well within acceptable levels.

Waffennacht

Gonna guess some sort of bug with Snipe, cuz it is the buggiest ability in game

Theignson

There are actually a lot of different opinions stated in this thread.

There are 4 components to snipe:
1) 1.1 second cast time. This cannot be animation cancelled!
2) clunky animation that can last 3 seconds or longer (I have been stuck in snipe animation for up to 10 seconds in lag). This can be cancelled.
3) flight time of the arrow after snipe is cast.
4) Global cooldown-- same as any ability-- 1 second after casting.

Some people are saying you can cast incap during the cast time of snipe and they will land at the same time. This would mean snipe has no global cooldown--that effectively the 1.1 second cast was the global cooldown. If this is true is there any other ability like this that can have the global cooldown bypassed?

Another possibility is you can cancel the animation with a light attack-- which is on a separate cooldown-- this would result in both light attack and snipe hitting about the same time.

With an ability like subterranean assault, two abilities can hit at the same time, because it is instant cast but has a 3 second delay. So you cast it, then run up to someone and hit them with eg reverse slice, and both hit at once.

The same could happen with snipe due to the flight time. You cast (1.1 sec) and it is in flight. You run up to someone and cast a second spell that is instant cast. The two would hit at the same time.

But people are saying that snipe is not like subterranean assault and you can make two major spells hit at the same time.

I'm going to have to go back to the target dummy and test some of this.

Thanks for the interesting discussion

Beardimus

Snipes bust. Has been for an age, but nothing gets done about it.

Fear is bust. Has been for an age but nothing gets done about it.

Cage was bust, got 5 nerfs. Now a useless skill no one.uses, no need to fix it.

But i digress, snipe is bust. Needs looking at.

JobooAGS

Best way to fix snipe. Make it a cheap ult and turn the skill to something akin to rapid fire/flurry effectively swapping snipe and rapid fire

idk

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Yet its got a 1.1 sec cast time and as you can see my ping is not bad enough to warrant that kind of delay. I might agree with you if my ping was registering above 300+ I've been playing this game since launch and never had a skill land twice in the same second except for snipe. This skill is so buggy and BS. ZoS really needs to take a look at this mechanic.

I've gone up against good players who were able to chain attacks (e.g., beetles, HA, WB, DBoS), but never hit two of the same skill at the same time let alone one with a 1.1 sec cast time in the same second. I've got all kind of screen shots and videos from strange things but never anything in the same second.

If lag is the case, why is Focused Aim the only skill that is affected by lag allowing two hits in the same second?

Ping is far from the defining aspect of lag. It in no way measures server lag.

So everything you said here is irrelevant to what you replied to.

I disagree. Ping is an indication of lag. Higher the ping the worse the lag. Lower the ping the smoother the game. As the game servers are delayed in responding to the client it is reflected in your in game ping value. When its primetime and the masses of people are all stacked up defending or attacking a keep the ping goes up. The servers can't handle the density within that quadrant and are delayed in responding to your client. That is why everyone gets lag and people see red pings. When its 2am in the morning on a weekday and no one is around ping is way down. There is absolutely a tie between server performance and ping rate. But regardless, at this particular time I was not lagging. I was fighting a templar and it was smooth.

Ping is also an indication of Internet congestion and the time it takes for your connection to reach its destination. Which is why people in Australia get a ping of 300+ and the game is sluggish for them. But I assure you I have good Internet and there was no congestion because my ping was 190 which is well within acceptable levels.

You can disagree all you wish but you are wrong.

The measurement of ping you are looking at only measures travel time to and from the server, but does not even attempt to include the actual server time to compute and return information. It includes a bottleneck of data to the server itself, which is why it increases during peak times, but nothing beyond that.

Beyond that I do not have time to explain further, but you are basically leaving so much out.

Royaji

Theignson wrote: »

Some people are saying you can cast incap during the cast time of snipe and they will land at the same time. This would mean snipe has no global cooldown--that effectively the 1.1 second cast was the global cooldown. If this is true is there any other ability like this that can have the global cooldown bypassed?

You cast incap after snipe (technically with a LA inbetween but let's keep it simple). The GCD is counted between "button presses" not between skills firing. So when you cast snipe two things happen: a 1,1 second cast time starts and 0,9 second GCD starts. Since GCD is shorter than cast time you can use your next skill immediately after cast time is finished. It does not go: 1,1 second cast time + 0,9 second GCD = 2 seconds before your next skill. This is true for any skill with a cast time longer than 0,9 seconds. It is not some form of bypassing GCD.

Theignson wrote: »

Another possibility is you can cancel the animation with a light attack-- which is on a separate cooldown-- this would result in both light attack and snipe hitting about the same time.

You cancel LA animation with skills, not the other way around. LA is at the bottom of animation priorities. It is also not subject to the GCD that affects skills.

Theignson wrote: »

With an ability like subterranean assault, two abilities can hit at the same time, because it is instant cast but has a 3 second delay. So you cast it, then run up to someone and hit them with eg reverse slice, and both hit at once.

Technically the same happens with snipe. Cast time is not relevant here. The flight time is. It acts like the 3 second delay on sub assault and allows you to land an instant cast skill before the snipe lands.

Theignson

Ok I tested this on the target dummy with Combat metrics and you guys are completely right. Its easy to land 4 attacks (eg snipe, poison arrow, light attack, bash) all within 0.1 seconds using snipe. There is no global cooldown of snipe after the cast time is done. So its true that the Snipe global cooldown starts immediately as you cast and has expired before Snipe is done casting!
This also seems to be true with Dizzying swing.
I thought the point of the global cooldown was to prevent all attacks hitting at once but this apparently is not the case.
Still lots to learn about game mechanics!
Clearly this explains ganking

idk

Theignson wrote: »

Ok I tested this on the target dummy with Combat metrics and you guys are completely right. Its easy to land 4 attacks (eg snipe, poison arrow, light attack, bash) all within 0.1 seconds using snipe. There is no global cooldown of snipe after the cast time is done. So its true that the Snipe global cooldown starts immediately as you cast and has expired before Snipe is done casting!
This also seems to be true with Dizzying swing.
I thought the point of the global cooldown was to prevent all attacks hitting at once but this apparently is not the case.
Still lots to learn about game mechanics!
Clearly this explains ganking

Yes, skills with an activation time such as snipe do not have an extended cooldown past the skill. After all they have already gone the full GCD and often more.

However, the statement is that the person was hit by 2 snipes at the same time from the same player and that is server lag, not ping but actual lag server side.

LegacyDM

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Yet its got a 1.1 sec cast time and as you can see my ping is not bad enough to warrant that kind of delay. I might agree with you if my ping was registering above 300+ I've been playing this game since launch and never had a skill land twice in the same second except for snipe. This skill is so buggy and BS. ZoS really needs to take a look at this mechanic.

I've gone up against good players who were able to chain attacks (e.g., beetles, HA, WB, DBoS), but never hit two of the same skill at the same time let alone one with a 1.1 sec cast time in the same second. I've got all kind of screen shots and videos from strange things but never anything in the same second.

If lag is the case, why is Focused Aim the only skill that is affected by lag allowing two hits in the same second?

Ping is far from the defining aspect of lag. It in no way measures server lag.

So everything you said here is irrelevant to what you replied to.

I disagree. Ping is an indication of lag. Higher the ping the worse the lag. Lower the ping the smoother the game. As the game servers are delayed in responding to the client it is reflected in your in game ping value. When its primetime and the masses of people are all stacked up defending or attacking a keep the ping goes up. The servers can't handle the density within that quadrant and are delayed in responding to your client. That is why everyone gets lag and people see red pings. When its 2am in the morning on a weekday and no one is around ping is way down. There is absolutely a tie between server performance and ping rate. But regardless, at this particular time I was not lagging. I was fighting a templar and it was smooth.

Ping is also an indication of Internet congestion and the time it takes for your connection to reach its destination. Which is why people in Australia get a ping of 300+ and the game is sluggish for them. But I assure you I have good Internet and there was no congestion because my ping was 190 which is well within acceptable levels.

You can disagree all you wish but you are wrong.

The measurement of ping you are looking at only measures travel time to and from the server, but does not even attempt to include the actual server time to compute and return information. It includes a bottleneck of data to the server itself, which is why it increases during peak times, but nothing beyond that.

Beyond that I do not have time to explain further, but you are basically leaving so much out.

I think we are saying the same thing but I'm not wrong. I know how this stuff works. I work in IT. It's pretty simple. The session connection is delayed on server side resulting in a slower response time back to the client. Ping goes up. communication with the destination is slowed because the client has to wait for a server response resulting in a higher ping/latency. It's analogous to the last mile. I think Your only looking at the physical, and network layers and forgetting about the transport, session and application layers. Those contribute to the time it takes for communication to happen as well. There is more to it than just routing hops and layer 1 cable mediums.

Bottom line, I wasn't lagging as evident in my ping. The fight was fluid. Now maybe the mysterious sniper used a lag switch or the server or skill is bugged to hell. I'm posting this because regardless of the reason this shouldn't happen and Zos needs to fix it. This is the only skill in the game that I'm aware of that can do this and has been doing it since launch. With so many bow spammers this is only going to get worse.

LegacyDM

Theignson wrote: »

Ok I tested this on the target dummy with Combat metrics and you guys are completely right. Its easy to land 4 attacks (eg snipe, poison arrow, light attack, bash) all within 0.1 seconds using snipe. There is no global cooldown of snipe after the cast time is done. So its true that the Snipe global cooldown starts immediately as you cast and has expired before Snipe is done casting!
This also seems to be true with Dizzying swing.
I thought the point of the global cooldown was to prevent all attacks hitting at once but this apparently is not the case.
Still lots to learn about game mechanics!
Clearly this explains ganking

Light attack and bash. Yes. They can be chained in the same second as a skill. However, I've never seen a dizzy swing hit twice in the same second in real pvp play. I think @thogard was able to bug it out with some major experimenting and testing but it's extremely hard to do and requires flat terrain. Not something that can be repeated in pvp conditions as easily as a snipe spammer.

idk

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Yet its got a 1.1 sec cast time and as you can see my ping is not bad enough to warrant that kind of delay. I might agree with you if my ping was registering above 300+ I've been playing this game since launch and never had a skill land twice in the same second except for snipe. This skill is so buggy and BS. ZoS really needs to take a look at this mechanic.

I've gone up against good players who were able to chain attacks (e.g., beetles, HA, WB, DBoS), but never hit two of the same skill at the same time let alone one with a 1.1 sec cast time in the same second. I've got all kind of screen shots and videos from strange things but never anything in the same second.

If lag is the case, why is Focused Aim the only skill that is affected by lag allowing two hits in the same second?

Ping is far from the defining aspect of lag. It in no way measures server lag.

So everything you said here is irrelevant to what you replied to.

I disagree. Ping is an indication of lag. Higher the ping the worse the lag. Lower the ping the smoother the game. As the game servers are delayed in responding to the client it is reflected in your in game ping value. When its primetime and the masses of people are all stacked up defending or attacking a keep the ping goes up. The servers can't handle the density within that quadrant and are delayed in responding to your client. That is why everyone gets lag and people see red pings. When its 2am in the morning on a weekday and no one is around ping is way down. There is absolutely a tie between server performance and ping rate. But regardless, at this particular time I was not lagging. I was fighting a templar and it was smooth.

Ping is also an indication of Internet congestion and the time it takes for your connection to reach its destination. Which is why people in Australia get a ping of 300+ and the game is sluggish for them. But I assure you I have good Internet and there was no congestion because my ping was 190 which is well within acceptable levels.

You can disagree all you wish but you are wrong.

The measurement of ping you are looking at only measures travel time to and from the server, but does not even attempt to include the actual server time to compute and return information. It includes a bottleneck of data to the server itself, which is why it increases during peak times, but nothing beyond that.

Beyond that I do not have time to explain further, but you are basically leaving so much out.

I think we are saying the same thing but I'm not wrong. I know how this stuff works. I work in IT. It's pretty simple. The session connection is delayed on server side resulting in a slower response time back to the client. Ping goes up. communication with the destination is slowed because the client has to wait for a server response resulting in a higher ping/latency. It's analogous to the last mile. I think Your only looking at the physical, and network layers and forgetting about the transport, session and application layers. Those contribute to the time it takes for communication to happen as well. There is more to it than just routing hops and layer 1 cable mediums.

Bottom line, I wasn't lagging as evident in my ping. The fight was fluid. Now maybe the mysterious sniper used a lag switch or the server or skill is bugged to hell. I'm posting this because regardless of the reason this shouldn't happen and Zos needs to fix it. This is the only skill in the game that I'm aware of that can do this and has been doing it since launch. With so many bow spammers this is only going to get worse.

You are incorrect that ping shows everything covering lag on server side. Yes it is pretty simple, but there is an aspect you are simply missing.


Just because you work in IT does not mean much. IT covers a large area and even if you happen to work with backbone infrastructure that is not the same as understanding servers and IT goes way beyond that.

Ramber

Macros?

LegacyDM

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

iirc that combat log is what registers client side, not server side. Lag can alter the timing of the client side events we receive.

Yet its got a 1.1 sec cast time and as you can see my ping is not bad enough to warrant that kind of delay. I might agree with you if my ping was registering above 300+ I've been playing this game since launch and never had a skill land twice in the same second except for snipe. This skill is so buggy and BS. ZoS really needs to take a look at this mechanic.

I've gone up against good players who were able to chain attacks (e.g., beetles, HA, WB, DBoS), but never hit two of the same skill at the same time let alone one with a 1.1 sec cast time in the same second. I've got all kind of screen shots and videos from strange things but never anything in the same second.

If lag is the case, why is Focused Aim the only skill that is affected by lag allowing two hits in the same second?

Ping is far from the defining aspect of lag. It in no way measures server lag.

So everything you said here is irrelevant to what you replied to.

I disagree. Ping is an indication of lag. Higher the ping the worse the lag. Lower the ping the smoother the game. As the game servers are delayed in responding to the client it is reflected in your in game ping value. When its primetime and the masses of people are all stacked up defending or attacking a keep the ping goes up. The servers can't handle the density within that quadrant and are delayed in responding to your client. That is why everyone gets lag and people see red pings. When its 2am in the morning on a weekday and no one is around ping is way down. There is absolutely a tie between server performance and ping rate. But regardless, at this particular time I was not lagging. I was fighting a templar and it was smooth.

Ping is also an indication of Internet congestion and the time it takes for your connection to reach its destination. Which is why people in Australia get a ping of 300+ and the game is sluggish for them. But I assure you I have good Internet and there was no congestion because my ping was 190 which is well within acceptable levels.

You can disagree all you wish but you are wrong.

The measurement of ping you are looking at only measures travel time to and from the server, but does not even attempt to include the actual server time to compute and return information. It includes a bottleneck of data to the server itself, which is why it increases during peak times, but nothing beyond that.

Beyond that I do not have time to explain further, but you are basically leaving so much out.

I think we are saying the same thing but I'm not wrong. I know how this stuff works. I work in IT. It's pretty simple. The session connection is delayed on server side resulting in a slower response time back to the client. Ping goes up. communication with the destination is slowed because the client has to wait for a server response resulting in a higher ping/latency. It's analogous to the last mile. I think Your only looking at the physical, and network layers and forgetting about the transport, session and application layers. Those contribute to the time it takes for communication to happen as well. There is more to it than just routing hops and layer 1 cable mediums.

Bottom line, I wasn't lagging as evident in my ping. The fight was fluid. Now maybe the mysterious sniper used a lag switch or the server or skill is bugged to hell. I'm posting this because regardless of the reason this shouldn't happen and Zos needs to fix it. This is the only skill in the game that I'm aware of that can do this and has been doing it since launch. With so many bow spammers this is only going to get worse.

You are incorrect that ping shows everything covering lag on server side. Yes it is pretty simple, but there is an aspect you are simply missing.


Just because you work in IT does not mean much. IT covers a large area and even if you happen to work with backbone infrastructure that is not the same as understanding servers and IT goes way beyond that.

Ok man whatever you say.

Now back to the topic.

LegacyDM

Ramber wrote: »

Macros?

Macros don't bypass global cool downs especially on a skill that has 1.1 cast time. People can Macro animation cancels but there is still a global cool down and travel time on an arrow flying through the air. The guy wasn't even close to me. One of 4 things. the combat log is incorrect. the skill is bugged either through an exploit or bad programming. The server lagged (but it didn't on my end). Or the guy used a lag switch. I doubt he used a lag switch. I doubt the combat log is wrong. Server didn't delay on my end. That leaves an exploitable bug either intentional or non intentional. Zos needs to fix.

evoniee

anyone who get stunned from stealthed player and not breakfree dodge is their fault.

firstly, you cannot cancel skill animation with other skill or light attack. incap animation is considered slow and easy to predict with loud sound.
the proper weaving is LA -> skill -> bash.

secondly, it is your own if you are not tanky enough, as medium sNB i run 23k health, 2800crit resist, 20k reisistance buffed in cyrodiil without emperor alliance buff or scroll in my current 650 cp no gold gear.