Why does Armor and Weapon not degrade and break in ESO?

Grimm13

Items in ESO have unlimited life for a character. They never need replacing so crafted sets are not in as much demand. This makes a crafter less important in the game than is systems that have or had this. Would like to see this. It would be an increase in the games economy, creating a greater transfer of wealth and use of resources.

Feric51

Items do degrade and break, losing their effective armor rating and do need to be repaired, but you're correct in that they never break beyond repair.

The real demand for crafted sets are for those who wish to not deal with swapping gear between characters and instead have a dedicated set for each character. Also, outside of stalwarts like Julianos and Hunding's Rage, each update tends to favor a select group of crafted sets that weren't utilized that much before. See Torug's Pact and weapon enchantments with the Murkmire patch (before it was "fixed) for a recent example. Night Mother's Gaze was another required crafted set for trials prior to Summerset, then its 5-piece bonus got drastically altered and basically made it worthless in group content, thus changing the dynamic and demand.

Also, add in all the new players who may ask for low-level training gear, and CP160 sets once they reach that level, and you have a fairly steady demand in that regards.

Grimm13

Feric51 wrote: »

Items do degrade and break, losing their effective armor rating and do need to be repaired, but you're correct in that they never break beyond repair.

The real demand for crafted sets are for those who wish to not deal with swapping gear between characters and instead have a dedicated set for each character. Also, outside of stalwarts like Julianos and Hunding's Rage, each update tends to favor a select group of crafted sets that weren't utilized that much before. See Torug's Pact and weapon enchantments with the Murkmire patch (before it was "fixed) for a recent example. Night Mother's Gaze was another required crafted set for trials prior to Summerset, then its 5-piece bonus got drastically altered and basically made it worthless in group content, thus changing the dynamic and demand.

Also, add in all the new players who may ask for low-level training gear, and CP160 sets once they reach that level, and you have a fairly steady demand in that regards.

Breaking beyond repair creates a greater demand on Crafters to build replacement sets, as well on Overland set gatherers and gives greater reason to rerun Dungeon and Trial content. With more replacement pieces built it soaks up more of the resource supplies thus creating a larger market on them.

New players generally sell gathered gear in most games as a means to jump start their income. In ESO they do not have as much of a income boost as they could if the system was changed to BBR.

Royaji

Grimm13 wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Items do degrade and break, losing their effective armor rating and do need to be repaired, but you're correct in that they never break beyond repair.

The real demand for crafted sets are for those who wish to not deal with swapping gear between characters and instead have a dedicated set for each character. Also, outside of stalwarts like Julianos and Hunding's Rage, each update tends to favor a select group of crafted sets that weren't utilized that much before. See Torug's Pact and weapon enchantments with the Murkmire patch (before it was "fixed) for a recent example. Night Mother's Gaze was another required crafted set for trials prior to Summerset, then its 5-piece bonus got drastically altered and basically made it worthless in group content, thus changing the dynamic and demand.

Also, add in all the new players who may ask for low-level training gear, and CP160 sets once they reach that level, and you have a fairly steady demand in that regards.

Breaking beyond repair creates a greater demand on Crafters to build replacement sets, as well on Overland set gatherers and gives greater reason to rerun Dungeon and Trial content. With more replacement pieces built it soaks up more of the resource supplies thus creating a larger market on them.

New players generally sell gathered gear in most games as a means to jump start their income. In ESO they do not have as much of a income boost as they could if the system was changed to BBR.

Because most players will probably strangle you if you propose that they have to re-farm new vMA destors and fresh Relequen every other week just because some crafters feel uneeded. Not even talking about PvP here.

Grimm13

Royaji wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Items do degrade and break, losing their effective armor rating and do need to be repaired, but you're correct in that they never break beyond repair.

The real demand for crafted sets are for those who wish to not deal with swapping gear between characters and instead have a dedicated set for each character. Also, outside of stalwarts like Julianos and Hunding's Rage, each update tends to favor a select group of crafted sets that weren't utilized that much before. See Torug's Pact and weapon enchantments with the Murkmire patch (before it was "fixed) for a recent example. Night Mother's Gaze was another required crafted set for trials prior to Summerset, then its 5-piece bonus got drastically altered and basically made it worthless in group content, thus changing the dynamic and demand.

Also, add in all the new players who may ask for low-level training gear, and CP160 sets once they reach that level, and you have a fairly steady demand in that regards.

Breaking beyond repair creates a greater demand on Crafters to build replacement sets, as well on Overland set gatherers and gives greater reason to rerun Dungeon and Trial content. With more replacement pieces built it soaks up more of the resource supplies thus creating a larger market on them.

New players generally sell gathered gear in most games as a means to jump start their income. In ESO they do not have as much of a income boost as they could if the system was changed to BBR.

Because most players will probably strangle you if you propose that they have to re-farm new vMA destors and fresh Relequen every other week just because some crafters feel uneeded. Not even talking about PvP here.

Items that are harder to get such as from vMA should have a greater and longer durability than Crafted and Overland sets. It's not that I feel unneeded, it is for a better flowing economy. vMA gear is hard to get and should be near indestructible, notice I said near as there should be a chance that it does need to get replaced.

Hookgrin

ESO is rather grindy as it is, making it far more so could lose existing players and turn away new players, affecting ZOS's income and the game's future, but the crafters, many of whom already have millions in gold, they'd be making a killing.

I started out with the intentions of having the maximum number of characters, all ready to play different content in different ways. But with the constant changes to gear, or to combat in general which then requires gear changes to compensate for, it is far too much work to keep them up and I have gone to just maintaining 2 or 3, which still borders on too much as I often spend most of my account wide resources just on them alone and have nothing left for the others. Sure there are things I can do to gain resources but there we go with that grindy thing again, makes a game seem too much like work.

ZOS has to consider the bigger picture when it come to ideas like this.

Grimm13

I think there is an assumption that I say it's a foregone thing for a breakage. In a simple tier example, I know there are more out there, here is what I have in mind.

All gear starts with 0% change to break when zero durability left. Each break adds a % for the BBR on the next zero durability. Repair the item before zero either at a merchant or repair kit to keep as is.

vMA level items 5% chance add
Dungeon level items 10% add
Craft level items 15% add
Overland Level items 20% add

Have new kit that is craft-able and takes resources to make which can reduce the break 5 on an item. Still have a service from a merchant for this but make the kit possible to be cheaper besides could be done in the field.

So take care and repair you would not have a problem, even if you do there would be a way to recover from it. Adds both a resources and a gold sink which is needed to keep a game healthy

courier

Just no to all of that, is this seriously your Friday afternoon enjoyment?

Dawnblade

Dumb idea is dumb.

VaranisArano

No thank you. Even with transmutation, I have no desire to rerun Darkshade 1 another 20 times just to replace the gear I already ran it 20 times to get.

John_Falstaff

I frankly had to check the date. No, not April 1st.

I'm not even sure what to say in response to the idea of making ESO grindier than Korean MMOs and forcing people to re-run same content over and over again if they simply want to keep playing the game - a hideously ugly idea. It probably was a tiresome day.

But I'll just say I'm not sure where a notion came from that crafted sets aren't needed. Sure, dropped sets are better, and that's next level of grind after the 'crafted gear' stage is over. Sure, I do want to see crafting actually more in demand (but no, forcing people to use crafted gear is like burning a house to get a little warmer). But that said, I regularly craft Julianos and Hundings, MA and NMG, Torug's (and no, not on the wave of meta, but for folks who pick up tanking) and Fortified Brass. Even before jewelry cost reductions, I've crafted full set of purple infused NMG jewelry pieces, for material cost upwards of quarter of a million. Infused Julianos staves sell well from guild traders - not at cosmic profit margin, but still at a profit. And as a crafter, I would want to see professions to be in more demand, but I'm fine without diving in gold unwashed masses throw at me for crafting. I'm okay with just crafting nice things for nice people.

SHADOW2KK

Are you kidding me OP

MehrunesFlagon

Royaji wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Items do degrade and break, losing their effective armor rating and do need to be repaired, but you're correct in that they never break beyond repair.

The real demand for crafted sets are for those who wish to not deal with swapping gear between characters and instead have a dedicated set for each character. Also, outside of stalwarts like Julianos and Hunding's Rage, each update tends to favor a select group of crafted sets that weren't utilized that much before. See Torug's Pact and weapon enchantments with the Murkmire patch (before it was "fixed) for a recent example. Night Mother's Gaze was another required crafted set for trials prior to Summerset, then its 5-piece bonus got drastically altered and basically made it worthless in group content, thus changing the dynamic and demand.

Also, add in all the new players who may ask for low-level training gear, and CP160 sets once they reach that level, and you have a fairly steady demand in that regards.

Breaking beyond repair creates a greater demand on Crafters to build replacement sets, as well on Overland set gatherers and gives greater reason to rerun Dungeon and Trial content. With more replacement pieces built it soaks up more of the resource supplies thus creating a larger market on them.

New players generally sell gathered gear in most games as a means to jump start their income. In ESO they do not have as much of a income boost as they could if the system was changed to BBR.

Because most players will probably strangle you if you propose that they have to re-farm new vMA destors and fresh Relequen every other week just because some crafters feel uneeded. Not even talking about PvP here.

Yes they would.

FilteredRiddle

Heck. No.

Lumenn

This has got to be a troll right? I might can see this and even where you're coming from in another game but with the way the rng is in ESO, the obviously stacked odds against you, the ratio of ancestor silk vs other materials, the motifs split into a million pieces(all rng) the grind that jewelry crafting is, the rng and competition on dropped sets(thank goodness we can change traits now, if you grind the geodes....) And you want to have all that time/effort.....break? Nope nope nope. Crafters would quit(constantly farming), then the buyers would quit when all that's left are the bot vendors and price gouging "crafting" guilds. This benefits no one but the bots

MattT1988

No thanks. The game is grindy enough. The system we have now is fine.

Greysson

Hell yeah!
"So, my BSW staff will break soon, got to go CoA!"
A little bit later: "Got it! Now go for the mothers sorrow chest and skoria helmet that broke meanwhile."
A little bit later: "Where is my mf BSW staff!?"

thorwyn

It is quite ironical... when I read this thread, my knee jerk reaction was: you got to be kidding me!
Then I remembered that I also used to play DAoC for many many years and "back in the days", degrading armor and replacing your Sword of Eternal Uberness on a regular basis was normal. I still wouldn't want it back though.

Sparr0w

Imagine that vMA bow you farmed a year for broke

Nestor

Should armor degrade from use (exp point gain in this game) and then need to be repaired? Yes. Even more so, we should have partial degradation in performance and stats after a certain threshold.

Armor degrades to the point that it breaks and needs to be replaced? No !@$&$!@ Way.

Weapon Damage is handled by Enchant Charge Depletion.

John_Falstaff

@Nestor , I feel though, if stats degradation was to be introduced, the overall durability will have to be raised somewhat, because some content already degrades equipment very fast, and having to repair even more often - not from close to zero, but earlier - just to keep stats would be altogether too much. (I'm looking at you, Blackrose Prison.)

Nestor

@John_Falstaff

Armor degrades in this game for one reason only. Experience gained. Well, character death causes it too, but exp is by far the largest factor.

Now I have not done the dungeon you mentioned, so I dont know how the exp is handed out or how many mobs there are, but if your eq is getting wrecked on there, that place must be the next skyreach.

Most games handle degradation that affects stats by setting a threshold of say 80% before any stat changes occur. Not sure where the threshold in this game should be. Also, not sure what the degradation rate should be either.

However it is weird that armor that is at 1% condition performs the same as fully repaired armor. It would only make sense to have some reduction in stats as armor gets degraded.

Azurya

Grimm13 wrote: »

Items in ESO have unlimited life for a character. They never need replacing so crafted sets are not in as much demand. This makes a crafter less important in the game than is systems that have or had this. Would like to see this. It would be an increase in the games economy, creating a greater transfer of wealth and use of resources.

of course and ppl like me playing 15 or more chars are forced to financial harikiri............
no thx, brilliant idea, but not for me

CrisXD

Royaji wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Items do degrade and break, losing their effective armor rating and do need to be repaired, but you're correct in that they never break beyond repair.

The real demand for crafted sets are for those who wish to not deal with swapping gear between characters and instead have a dedicated set for each character. Also, outside of stalwarts like Julianos and Hunding's Rage, each update tends to favor a select group of crafted sets that weren't utilized that much before. See Torug's Pact and weapon enchantments with the Murkmire patch (before it was "fixed) for a recent example. Night Mother's Gaze was another required crafted set for trials prior to Summerset, then its 5-piece bonus got drastically altered and basically made it worthless in group content, thus changing the dynamic and demand.

Also, add in all the new players who may ask for low-level training gear, and CP160 sets once they reach that level, and you have a fairly steady demand in that regards.

Breaking beyond repair creates a greater demand on Crafters to build replacement sets, as well on Overland set gatherers and gives greater reason to rerun Dungeon and Trial content. With more replacement pieces built it soaks up more of the resource supplies thus creating a larger market on them.

New players generally sell gathered gear in most games as a means to jump start their income. In ESO they do not have as much of a income boost as they could if the system was changed to BBR.

Because most players will probably strangle you if you propose that they have to re-farm new vMA destors and fresh Relequen every other week just because some crafters feel uneeded. Not even talking about PvP here.

Strangle?! Thats too kind...

John_Falstaff

@Nestor , probably won't become the next Skyreach, normal is a rollover and vet is too difficult to grind XP. I never actually paid attention to how much experience it gives on kills, but when we ran, I wasn't the only one in the group to notice that wipes degrade equipment much faster than other content, and in addition Blackrose doesn't have traders between stages unlike DSA. There's actually a forum topic in trials/arenas section, so rapid degradation might be a bug for all I know.

Point in case is, can't just say that below 80% armor starts degrading without seeing how fast armor degrades compared to other games that have such feature and how much does it cost to repair it. Weird or not, can't just slap degradation on the armor without other durability-related adjustments. I can imagine progression guilds being so-o happy that now, while practicing some trial mechanics, they have to use repair kits thrice as often because they're already wiping to the fact they're in the process of learning and they really don't need yet another source of wipes in the form of degraded armor.

Sevn

Spoken like someone who hasn't had to run the same freaking dungeon every day with over 20 runs before they got the drop they needed. And you want to worsen this? Because you're selling the wrong unwanted items? Just no.

Better idea, craft and sell more desirable gear rather than trying to get rich off of another players frustration. I also don't think it would impact the economy as much as you'd like. No, I think you'd just have more crafters. Hell it's what got me into crafting, totally self sufficient.

Xerikten

well when you run certain content for months to get that special weapon. now it breaks or degrades you will soon realize that only a FOOL would implement such a mechanic. sir I am being very polite in using the word fool.

MasterSpatula

Star Wars: Galaxies figured out over a decade ago how to make much of the best rewards drop as schematics, making the best gear obtainable by your efforts but also keeping crafting viable and necessary.

It astonishes me that other companies completely hose their crafters when SOE, not exactly the best devs in the business, figured out how to do crafting right so long ago.

idk

It is a poor design to have armor and weapons with a limited life and have so much RNG in getting the gear to begin with.

With the RNG in the game OP would have us wear out our vMA weapons while farming for the new ones. That would essentially add to the RNG.

Bad idea all around.

Grimm13

In a game there needs to be a balance with a gain of materials and a loss of them. This goes both for gold and resources. ZOS obviously believes there is a problem and is why we see a high gold cost on the outfitter system and the jewelry resources having you farm grains to get whole ore before you get to processing.

Nearly every response has ignored where I same that there should be a repair mechanic to keep items from being destroyed. Which the mechanic needs to include a sink in materials.

I make plenty from the current system and it's not anything to do about feeling under appreciated as it's been said. In the long run I think we are going to see more things come out like the outfitter and jewelry systems. Sorry if I am thinking as the game for a whole instead of, well I might lose my favorite item so I don't want this. I know hard concept to think critically instead of emotionally.

John_Falstaff

@Grimm13 , I don't think you should attribute your own thoughts and ideas to ZOS. Apparently, ZOS doesn't see a whole lot of things, considering how they change things twice in a week after PTS period. The current market price of materials reflects their demand and offer, and if ancestor silk or rubedite don't cost zero gold, that means someone's crafting gear from that, and someone's having profit farming that. There's no need to invent a problem where there's none, or try to hide desire for profit behind a guise of 'critical thinking'.