Critical Damage - How much Crit Resist ?

Biro123

Beardimus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

Seriously though, you're only giving up a 2 and 3 armor bonus for transmutation.
And you do have a powerful Magicka dump in extended ritual, not a bad trade off (approximately 231 weapon damage for -.2 crit modifier)

If I had master dw I'd run those instead of bow probably.

Edit: I keep forgetting to add, giving the additional crit resistance to allies via vigor and extended ritual is extremely helpful, it is a BG build

I love your work with this!!

Back to OP, Crit mitigation is often misunderstood, and i think this thread gives you all the intel you need @MalagenR mitigation 50% Crit is the minimum really now as most folks with points in Eflborn (15-20%) and NB (+10%) are going to be hitting you for 70-80% Crit no worries.

This is why sorcs have been kicking off. As now we have to use traits that were helping our other issues to motivate damage. Where ever we get resistances & Crit resist & possibly health from comes at a loss in Sustain and or damage which we can't afford.

Oddly most sorcs will be MORE tanker after this patch, that's the irony. Pre patch i hit hard but if my wards when down pop i was dead, instant. Now when my wards are down ill.be able to take a load more damage. I've just lost sustain, and punch.

Tales of sorcs that can't die are going to get worse. Is all.

Sadly this is true.. Mine feel around the same per cast as they were pre-murkmire (albeit smaller) - but that's with running 2k more crit resists and 11k more resists. Those extra stats don't come from thin air.. but we will still see our usual forum friends calling for shield-nerfs and defending shield-breaker.

montiferus

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

lol not really. i know you only play bgs so builds in general are different for that environment. tbh i dont really do bgs so i have very little experience in that area and if you found something that works thats cool.

for small scale open world that build would be bad...like really bad. but that is what makes this game so interesting what works in one instance may not work at all in another.

Minno

montiferus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

lol not really. i know you only play bgs so builds in general are different for that environment. tbh i dont really do bgs so i have very little experience in that area and if you found something that works thats cool.

for small scale open world that build would be bad...like really bad. but that is what makes this game so interesting what works in one instance may not work at all in another.

the dodgeroll reduction wouldnt be as bad open world. It's the stamina regen.
But you could argue, restoring rune lets you have less regen.

montiferus

Minno wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

lol not really. i know you only play bgs so builds in general are different for that environment. tbh i dont really do bgs so i have very little experience in that area and if you found something that works thats cool.

for small scale open world that build would be bad...like really bad. but that is what makes this game so interesting what works in one instance may not work at all in another.

the dodgeroll reduction wouldnt be as bad open world. It's the stamina regen.
But you could argue, restoring rune lets you have less regen.

You can only dodge roll so much playing small scale. It will get you killed. More importantly that build does 0 damage. You are never killing a competent player with that. In open world burst is king and that build has none of it. With the changes to Stamplar now you only have 1 magicka dump so it is way easier to purify than it used to be so the Magicka recovery while nice is completely not needed. Im running 6 medium right now and my magicka sustain is just fine even with 2 damage sets.

As I said this build could be great for BGs and if it works for him cool. My very extensive experience playing small scale open world says this build would be terrible in that scenario.

Minno

montiferus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

lol not really. i know you only play bgs so builds in general are different for that environment. tbh i dont really do bgs so i have very little experience in that area and if you found something that works thats cool.

for small scale open world that build would be bad...like really bad. but that is what makes this game so interesting what works in one instance may not work at all in another.

the dodgeroll reduction wouldnt be as bad open world. It's the stamina regen.
But you could argue, restoring rune lets you have less regen.

You can only dodge roll so much playing small scale. It will get you killed. More importantly that build does 0 damage. You are never killing a competent player with that. In open world burst is king and that build has none of it. With the changes to Stamplar now you only have 1 magicka dump so it is way easier to purify than it used to be so the Magicka recovery while nice is completely not needed. Im running 6 medium right now and my magicka sustain is just fine even with 2 damage sets.

As I said this build could be great for BGs and if it works for him cool. My very extensive experience playing small scale open world says this build would be terrible in that scenario.

yea BGs you dont need alot of dmg, but you do need crit resists/regen.

Waffennacht

I agree with both of you. I build for pure BGs and I had to put a lot into getting just enough damage.

In BGs you get to face the same players, and always multiple; meaning you can actively target individuals/ignore others. Tanky builds can be focused with allies or left until reinforcements, or just single out the sorc (lol)

2h ult is absolutely critical for the build. It allows for significant burst with light and poison injection and double dmg poison.

It will always get the buff from Balorgh and if crits can single handedly take half of an opponent's health.

Cyrodiil is not for me anymore

Edit: thread jack sneak peak fully self buffed no CP

Galarthor

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Well your analysis is misleading in terms:

First, you neglect the spell / physical resistences. If you have let's say 30% spell & physical resistences your crit damage at 90% additional crit damage will be (1-0.3)*1.9 = 1.33 or 133% of tooltip damage. At 50% it's 105% and at 70% it'S oly 119%. And all of that is prior to crit resist.

Second, shields act as additional health (nowadays quite literally like a short term boost to your HP bar), so even at 90% additional damage from crits you don't necessarily need 24k HP or can allow for lower crit resist.

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

I agree with both of you. I build for pure BGs and I had to put a lot into getting just enough damage.

In BGs you get to face the same players, and always multiple; meaning you can actively target individuals/ignore others. Tanky builds can be focused with allies or left until reinforcements, or just single out the sorc (lol)

2h ult is absolutely critical for the build. It allows for significant burst with light and poison injection and double dmg poison.

It will always get the buff from Balorgh and if crits can single handedly take half of an opponent's health.

Cyrodiil is not for me anymore

Edit: thread jack sneak peak fully self buffed no CP

Tasty

rabidmyers

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

With the Nerf to impreg I wanted more crit resistance while still being able to roll dodge a massive amount.

The 2 and 3 of transmutation is mag regen, I pair that with mag return rune. I can use extended ritual at will, and my secret weapon is using toppling charge as my hard CC (the guaranteed CC morph) - on my 2h bar, binding javelin on my bow bar

Using toppling to set up my Onslaught to ensure it lands.

Transmutation backbar only and transmuted jewelry means I'm losing very little by running transmutation.

It's an experimental build that I'm really enjoying

You're weird

Got footage? I enjoy hybrid type bg builds

Lol! No footage yet. I've only ran it in about 6 BGs now. It has taken... 200 crystals and I still need 55 more (have 45 ATM) to finish the build. I don't plan on running for Balorgh medium helm or well fitted.

I just remembered my hands aren't the correct trait either...

And to be honest I wasn't even completely sold on the idea myself and that's why I haven't committed the mats to Golding my transmutation 2h

You just need 4 gold well fitted to match CP 20% cost reduction. I wouldn't go past that. Then use 2 divines for extra damage via mundas.

I definitely feel the difference between 5 and 7, I prefer more reduction. The added damage is less noticeable for me.

It's also an Argonian if that means anything.

Anywho, 3k impen is my goal for most builds, how to go about it is where the spice of variety comes from

now do u prefer argonian in general for all stam specs? or just stamplar?

Minno

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Well your analysis is misleading in terms:

First, you neglect the spell / physical resistences. If you have let's say 30% spell & physical resistences your crit damage at 90% additional crit damage will be (1-0.3)*1.9 = 1.33 or 133% of tooltip damage. At 50% it's 105% and at 70% it'S oly 119%. And all of that is prior to crit resist.

Second, shields act as additional health (nowadays quite literally like a short term boost to your HP bar), so even at 90% additional damage from crits you don't necessarily need 24k HP or can allow for lower crit resist.

30% armor is 19k resist? But that assumes no penetration And crit happens before any mitigation. If a target is getting 30% after Penn your defense is over defensive anyway because they will have stacked so much mitigation they gave up dmg.

Or your target has terrible penetration. And bleeds will completely ignore. For high penetration attacks impen is better followed by major protection.

Shields are only as important as the gcd you waste to cast. And active defenses can only be compared to other active defensive (block, dodge roll, etc.) And are a league of thier own.

Waffennacht

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

With the Nerf to impreg I wanted more crit resistance while still being able to roll dodge a massive amount.

The 2 and 3 of transmutation is mag regen, I pair that with mag return rune. I can use extended ritual at will, and my secret weapon is using toppling charge as my hard CC (the guaranteed CC morph) - on my 2h bar, binding javelin on my bow bar

Using toppling to set up my Onslaught to ensure it lands.

Transmutation backbar only and transmuted jewelry means I'm losing very little by running transmutation.

It's an experimental build that I'm really enjoying

You're weird

Got footage? I enjoy hybrid type bg builds

Lol! No footage yet. I've only ran it in about 6 BGs now. It has taken... 200 crystals and I still need 55 more (have 45 ATM) to finish the build. I don't plan on running for Balorgh medium helm or well fitted.

I just remembered my hands aren't the correct trait either...

And to be honest I wasn't even completely sold on the idea myself and that's why I haven't committed the mats to Golding my transmutation 2h

You just need 4 gold well fitted to match CP 20% cost reduction. I wouldn't go past that. Then use 2 divines for extra damage via mundas.

I definitely feel the difference between 5 and 7, I prefer more reduction. The added damage is less noticeable for me.

It's also an Argonian if that means anything.

Anywho, 3k impen is my goal for most builds, how to go about it is where the spice of variety comes from

now do u prefer argonian in general for all stam specs? or just stamplar?

I prefer tankier builds and Argonian is really good. Specifically for stamplar? I wouldn't say specifically.

Argonian is just easier in as much the race can spec into a lot of different styles.

All my characters were made years ago and I don't plan on race changing so I just work with what I got

BlackMadara

Minno wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Well your analysis is misleading in terms:

First, you neglect the spell / physical resistences. If you have let's say 30% spell & physical resistences your crit damage at 90% additional crit damage will be (1-0.3)*1.9 = 1.33 or 133% of tooltip damage. At 50% it's 105% and at 70% it'S oly 119%. And all of that is prior to crit resist.

Second, shields act as additional health (nowadays quite literally like a short term boost to your HP bar), so even at 90% additional damage from crits you don't necessarily need 24k HP or can allow for lower crit resist.

30% armor is 19k resist? But that assumes no penetration And crit happens before any mitigation. If a target is getting 30% after Penn your defense is over defensive anyway because they will have stacked so much mitigation they gave up dmg.

Or your target has terrible penetration. And bleeds will completely ignore. For high penetration attacks impen is better followed by major protection.

Shields are only as important as the gcd you waste to cast. And active defenses can only be compared to other active defensive (block, dodge roll, etc.) And are a league of thier own.

When crit damage or any defensive modifier is applied doesnt matter. It's all multiplicative. They all hold a certain weight based on diminishing returns.

Most physical damage dealers in pvp won't have high pen and spell resistance is easier to get than physical. You can still sit around an effective 30% mitigation and have decent damage.

Bleeds honestly don't do that much damage, other than master axes, compared to, say, DK DoTs. Even with mitigation factored, my burning embers, engulfing flames, and burning proc tick as hard or harder, not counting master axe buff to rending. The main problem for bleeds are the ease of getting the passive procs.

Impen and major/minor protection are the only defense against attacks that ignore armor. High armor is still effective against high penetration because their is only so much pen you can get. I still find that you need a balance of defensive mechanics.

Example from myself. High resists from pariah, med-high crit resists with all impen and cp, and cauterize HoT and offensive healing from DK class. All of these add to my effective hp.

PS. I decided to change out a set on my stam DK that I just leveled to Impreg. Its feeling spicy. All the ways to build in this game is part of the fun. Great input.

Minno

BlackMadara wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Well your analysis is misleading in terms:

First, you neglect the spell / physical resistences. If you have let's say 30% spell & physical resistences your crit damage at 90% additional crit damage will be (1-0.3)*1.9 = 1.33 or 133% of tooltip damage. At 50% it's 105% and at 70% it'S oly 119%. And all of that is prior to crit resist.

Second, shields act as additional health (nowadays quite literally like a short term boost to your HP bar), so even at 90% additional damage from crits you don't necessarily need 24k HP or can allow for lower crit resist.

30% armor is 19k resist? But that assumes no penetration And crit happens before any mitigation. If a target is getting 30% after Penn your defense is over defensive anyway because they will have stacked so much mitigation they gave up dmg.

Or your target has terrible penetration. And bleeds will completely ignore. For high penetration attacks impen is better followed by major protection.

Shields are only as important as the gcd you waste to cast. And active defenses can only be compared to other active defensive (block, dodge roll, etc.) And are a league of thier own.

When crit damage or any defensive modifier is applied doesnt matter. It's all multiplicative. They all hold a certain weight based on diminishing returns.

Most physical damage dealers in pvp won't have high pen and spell resistance is easier to get than physical. You can still sit around an effective 30% mitigation and have decent damage.

Bleeds honestly don't do that much damage, other than master axes, compared to, say, DK DoTs. Even with mitigation factored, my burning embers, engulfing flames, and burning proc tick as hard or harder, not counting master axe buff to rending. The main problem for bleeds are the ease of getting the passive procs.

Impen and major/minor protection are the only defense against attacks that ignore armor. High armor is still effective against high penetration because their is only so much pen you can get. I still find that you need a balance of defensive mechanics.

Example from myself. High resists from pariah, med-high crit resists with all impen and cp, and cauterize HoT and offensive healing from DK class. All of these add to my effective hp.

PS. I decided to change out a set on my stam DK that I just leveled to Impreg. Its feeling spicy. All the ways to build in this game is part of the fun. Great input.

Not crit resists. CP sources are subject to their own diminishing returns (as is the wayof the CP stars). But the actual calculation of crits in PvP is turning resist into percentage and then that percentage is subtracted from your enemy's CHD. And that happens before mitigation is taken into effect.

"This one is very special cause unlike mitigation that is a multiplicative reduction this one is actually a subtractive one. This is the formula:

CRITICAL MODIFIER=1.5+(Critical Damage Buff #1/100)+(Critical Damage Buff #2/100)+(etc etc)-(Critical Resistance/68/100)

DAMAGE TAKEN=Base Damage*(1.5+(Critical Damage Buff #1/100)+(Critical Damage Buff #2/100)+(etc etc)-(Critical Resistance/68/100))"

After that all other mitigation is multiplicative because and there you are right about multiplicative mitigation. Crits and crit resistance just impact the modifier to your base damage and happen before minor maim which happens before armor because maim impacts your target damage/% based mitigation which happens before the shield, which happens before block.

Galarthor

Minno wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Well your analysis is misleading in terms:

First, you neglect the spell / physical resistences. If you have let's say 30% spell & physical resistences your crit damage at 90% additional crit damage will be (1-0.3)*1.9 = 1.33 or 133% of tooltip damage. At 50% it's 105% and at 70% it'S oly 119%. And all of that is prior to crit resist.

Second, shields act as additional health (nowadays quite literally like a short term boost to your HP bar), so even at 90% additional damage from crits you don't necessarily need 24k HP or can allow for lower crit resist.

30% armor is 19k resist? But that assumes no penetration And crit happens before any mitigation. If a target is getting 30% after Penn your defense is over defensive anyway because they will have stacked so much mitigation they gave up dmg.

Or your target has terrible penetration. And bleeds will completely ignore. For high penetration attacks impen is better followed by major protection.

Shields are only as important as the gcd you waste to cast. And active defenses can only be compared to other active defensive (block, dodge roll, etc.) And are a league of thier own.

You are right, but penetration usually does not exceed the resistences, so the 4k crit resistence still seems a bit excessive.

As for the shields. Ofc, every ability is only as important as the GCD you waste to cast it. But given the lack of decent healing available to magSorcs, there is little alternative to the shields. Which in turn means you got an extended HP pool and are not as susceptible to 1 shots - if the mitigation works properly. But given how unreliably shields work (especially in the recent DLC) you could make a strong arguement for having to be tanky enough to survive such a NB crit unshielded.

Minno

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Well your analysis is misleading in terms:

First, you neglect the spell / physical resistences. If you have let's say 30% spell & physical resistences your crit damage at 90% additional crit damage will be (1-0.3)*1.9 = 1.33 or 133% of tooltip damage. At 50% it's 105% and at 70% it'S oly 119%. And all of that is prior to crit resist.

Second, shields act as additional health (nowadays quite literally like a short term boost to your HP bar), so even at 90% additional damage from crits you don't necessarily need 24k HP or can allow for lower crit resist.

30% armor is 19k resist? But that assumes no penetration And crit happens before any mitigation. If a target is getting 30% after Penn your defense is over defensive anyway because they will have stacked so much mitigation they gave up dmg.

Or your target has terrible penetration. And bleeds will completely ignore. For high penetration attacks impen is better followed by major protection.

Shields are only as important as the gcd you waste to cast. And active defenses can only be compared to other active defensive (block, dodge roll, etc.) And are a league of thier own.

You are right, but penetration usually does not exceed the resistences, so the 4k crit resistence still seems a bit excessive.

As for the shields. Ofc, every ability is only as important as the GCD you waste to cast it. But given the lack of decent healing available to magSorcs, there is little alternative to the shields. Which in turn means you got an extended HP pool and are not as susceptible to 1 shots - if the mitigation works properly. But given how unreliably shields work (especially in the recent DLC) you could make a strong arguement for having to be tanky enough to survive such a NB crit unshielded.

Guess that would depend on the build. Transmutation let's my magplar get decent Regen and 4k CR, but let's me run 2 offensive sets (3 if you count will power staff front bar). while hitting enough resists to mitigate the same damageas wasting a 5pc on his armor resists. And those crit resists will mitigate bleeds whereas armor does not.

You can say 5k can be useless, but honestly I don't think it is in CP where you'll hit some crazy CHD modifier that makes your armor deal double duty.

DTStormfox

I personally decided to not go above 1000 critical resistance in no-cp pvp and focus more on physical and spell resistance (let's call them normal resistance levels).
The reasoning behind this is that most of the damage you receive is not critical damage. Yes, you will run into people that one-shot you, but the majority of players do not run such builds. By running a lot of critical damage you have a build that incorporates the probability of getting critically hit. Remember that critical resistance ONLY mitigates critical damage. Physical and Spell resistance levels mitigate both!

Let's say you run 3.5k crit resistance, which totally negates the critical modifier of 1.5, you have 0 physical resistance* and the base damage dealt was 5k. You will receive 5k multiplied by 1.0 = 5000 damage received and 2500 damage mitigated.

If you run 0 critical resistance and have 33100 physical resistance, which is the hard cap (approx) and the base damage dealt was 5k. You will receive 50% of 5k multiplied by 1.5 = 3750 damage and 1250 damage mitigated.

However, putting things in perspective:
A potential critical attack is 7500 damage with these numbers. With full impenetrable, you mitigated 2500 damage. But with full normal resistance levels, you mitigate the potential 7500 damage with 3750 damage!
Conclusion: You can mitigate more damage when at full resistance levels at all times, than running an impenetrable build. The downside is that normal resistance levels can be debuffed, critical resistance cannot be reduced, and bleeds ignore armour.


*for the sake of argument

(correct me if my calculations are wrong)

usmguy1234

My templar has 30k resists and almost 4.5 crit resist and got hit by a 13k killers blade so just take that in to account.

DTStormfox

usmguy1234 wrote: »

My templar has 30k resists and almost 4.5 crit resist and got hit by a 13k killers blade so just take that in to account.

That's the very reason why I play no-cp pvp only ;-)

Lord-Otto

I put on Impreg. 4k crit resists. Sure, I could use Trans instead, but why would I? I need no requirements for Impreg, it's always there. 4k crit resist might seems excessive, but if you can, no, HAVE to afford it, why not? Also allows me to not waste a skillslot on Boundless Storm. Win in my CP book.

jaws343

Beardimus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

Seriously though, you're only giving up a 2 and 3 armor bonus for transmutation.
And you do have a powerful Magicka dump in extended ritual, not a bad trade off (approximately 231 weapon damage for -.2 crit modifier)

If I had master dw I'd run those instead of bow probably.

Edit: I keep forgetting to add, giving the additional crit resistance to allies via vigor and extended ritual is extremely helpful, it is a BG build

I love your work with this!!

Back to OP, Crit mitigation is often misunderstood, and i think this thread gives you all the intel you need @MalagenR mitigation 50% Crit is the minimum really now as most folks with points in Eflborn (15-20%) and NB (+10%) are going to be hitting you for 70-80% Crit no worries.

This is why sorcs have been kicking off. As now we have to use traits that were helping our other issues to motivate damage. Where ever we get resistances & Crit resist & possibly health from comes at a loss in Sustain and or damage which we can't afford.

Oddly most sorcs will be MORE tanker after this patch, that's the irony. Pre patch i hit hard but if my wards when down pop i was dead, instant. Now when my wards are down ill.be able to take a load more damage. I've just lost sustain, and punch.

Tales of sorcs that can't die are going to get worse. Is all.

It's interesting in my Sorc's case. Pre-Murkmire I was running 2 sustain sets (Shackle+alteration) and mix-matched monster sets for stats. But zero impen. So i hit moderately hard and was able to sustain a fight.

Post Murkmire, I am running Pariah and Bright Throat with Bloodspawn. And it is insane. I still hit moderately hard because I was already not running a damage set. So my power hasn't changed. And with the new Overload, I feel like I have gotten stronger. But with Pariah and Bloodspawn i have crazy mitigation. Unbuffed, I am sitting at 20K resistances in light armor. Fully buffed with Pariah, Bloodspawn and Boundless storm, I am just under 40K.

With only 1500 crit resist coming from gear traits. Not even worrying about it too much since my base resistance is so high. The tankiness is next level.

MalagenR

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

Seriously though, you're only giving up a 2 and 3 armor bonus for transmutation.
And you do have a powerful Magicka dump in extended ritual, not a bad trade off (approximately 231 weapon damage for -.2 crit modifier)

If I had master dw I'd run those instead of bow probably.

Edit: I keep forgetting to add, giving the additional crit resistance to allies via vigor and extended ritual is extremely helpful, it is a BG build

I love your work with this!!

Back to OP, Crit mitigation is often misunderstood, and i think this thread gives you all the intel you need @MalagenR mitigation 50% Crit is the minimum really now as most folks with points in Eflborn (15-20%) and NB (+10%) are going to be hitting you for 70-80% Crit no worries.

This is why sorcs have been kicking off. As now we have to use traits that were helping our other issues to motivate damage. Where ever we get resistances & Crit resist & possibly health from comes at a loss in Sustain and or damage which we can't afford.

Oddly most sorcs will be MORE tanker after this patch, that's the irony. Pre patch i hit hard but if my wards when down pop i was dead, instant. Now when my wards are down ill.be able to take a load more damage. I've just lost sustain, and punch.

Tales of sorcs that can't die are going to get worse. Is all.

It's interesting in my Sorc's case. Pre-Murkmire I was running 2 sustain sets (Shackle+alteration) and mix-matched monster sets for stats. But zero impen. So i hit moderately hard and was able to sustain a fight.

Post Murkmire, I am running Pariah and Bright Throat with Bloodspawn. And it is insane. I still hit moderately hard because I was already not running a damage set. So my power hasn't changed. And with the new Overload, I feel like I have gotten stronger. But with Pariah and Bloodspawn i have crazy mitigation. Unbuffed, I am sitting at 20K resistances in light armor. Fully buffed with Pariah, Bloodspawn and Boundless storm, I am just under 40K.

With only 1500 crit resist coming from gear traits. Not even worrying about it too much since my base resistance is so high. The tankiness is next level.

But how do you sustain?

jaws343

MalagenR wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

Seriously though, you're only giving up a 2 and 3 armor bonus for transmutation.
And you do have a powerful Magicka dump in extended ritual, not a bad trade off (approximately 231 weapon damage for -.2 crit modifier)

If I had master dw I'd run those instead of bow probably.

Edit: I keep forgetting to add, giving the additional crit resistance to allies via vigor and extended ritual is extremely helpful, it is a BG build

I love your work with this!!

Back to OP, Crit mitigation is often misunderstood, and i think this thread gives you all the intel you need @MalagenR mitigation 50% Crit is the minimum really now as most folks with points in Eflborn (15-20%) and NB (+10%) are going to be hitting you for 70-80% Crit no worries.

This is why sorcs have been kicking off. As now we have to use traits that were helping our other issues to motivate damage. Where ever we get resistances & Crit resist & possibly health from comes at a loss in Sustain and or damage which we can't afford.

Oddly most sorcs will be MORE tanker after this patch, that's the irony. Pre patch i hit hard but if my wards when down pop i was dead, instant. Now when my wards are down ill.be able to take a load more damage. I've just lost sustain, and punch.

Tales of sorcs that can't die are going to get worse. Is all.

It's interesting in my Sorc's case. Pre-Murkmire I was running 2 sustain sets (Shackle+alteration) and mix-matched monster sets for stats. But zero impen. So i hit moderately hard and was able to sustain a fight.

Post Murkmire, I am running Pariah and Bright Throat with Bloodspawn. And it is insane. I still hit moderately hard because I was already not running a damage set. So my power hasn't changed. And with the new Overload, I feel like I have gotten stronger. But with Pariah and Bloodspawn i have crazy mitigation. Unbuffed, I am sitting at 20K resistances in light armor. Fully buffed with Pariah, Bloodspawn and Boundless storm, I am just under 40K.

With only 1500 crit resist coming from gear traits. Not even worrying about it too much since my base resistance is so high. The tankiness is next level.

But how do you sustain?

Sustain with Bright Throat, Witchmothers, and light attacks with Energy Overload. Plus Dark Conversion.

Biro123

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I put on Impreg. 4k crit resists. Sure, I could use Trans instead, but why would I? I need no requirements for Impreg, it's always there. 4k crit resist might seems excessive, but if you can, no, HAVE to afford it, why not? Also allows me to not waste a skillslot on Boundless Storm. Win in my CP book.

I tried impreg first, then switched to transmutation - as it doubles up as my sustain set too!

Pro tip, use rapid regen and have degeneration on you back bar (or at least the morph that gives extra health - whatever its called) - then every time you swap to your back-bar, your max health increases - but as your current health doesn't (immediately), you can be healed with a rapid regen tick - triggering the transmutation proc.
You're also buffing your overload attacks with it too..

MalagenR

Biro123 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I put on Impreg. 4k crit resists. Sure, I could use Trans instead, but why would I? I need no requirements for Impreg, it's always there. 4k crit resist might seems excessive, but if you can, no, HAVE to afford it, why not? Also allows me to not waste a skillslot on Boundless Storm. Win in my CP book.

I tried impreg first, then switched to transmutation - as it doubles up as my sustain set too!

Pro tip, use rapid regen and have degeneration on you back bar (or at least the morph that gives extra health - whatever its called) - then every time you swap to your back-bar, your max health increases - but as your current health doesn't (immediately), you can be healed with a rapid regen tick - triggering the transmutation proc.
You're also buffing your overload attacks with it too..

That is nifty on the transmutation trick.

Minno

DTStormfox wrote: »

I personally decided to not go above 1000 critical resistance in no-cp pvp and focus more on physical and spell resistance (let's call them normal resistance levels).
The reasoning behind this is that most of the damage you receive is not critical damage. Yes, you will run into people that one-shot you, but the majority of players do not run such builds. By running a lot of critical damage you have a build that incorporates the probability of getting critically hit. Remember that critical resistance ONLY mitigates critical damage. Physical and Spell resistance levels mitigate both!

Let's say you run 3.5k crit resistance, which totally negates the critical modifier of 1.5, you have 0 physical resistance* and the base damage dealt was 5k. You will receive 5k multiplied by 1.0 = 5000 damage received and 2500 damage mitigated.

If you run 0 critical resistance and have 33100 physical resistance, which is the hard cap (approx) and the base damage dealt was 5k. You will receive 50% of 5k multiplied by 1.5 = 3750 damage and 1250 damage mitigated.

However, putting things in perspective:
A potential critical attack is 7500 damage with these numbers. With full impenetrable, you mitigated 2500 damage. But with full normal resistance levels, you mitigate the potential 7500 damage with 3750 damage!
Conclusion: You can mitigate more damage when at full resistance levels at all times, than running an impenetrable build. The downside is that normal resistance levels can be debuffed, critical resistance cannot be reduced, and bleeds ignore armour.


*for the sake of argument

(correct me if my calculations are wrong)

Crit resists happen first. If you have 1k crit resists, but your target has 1.5-1.6 (1.353/1.453), a 15k attack will be 20295\21795). Attacks will crit, ignoring them is what creates those threads like "omg bleedz OP" or "Sorc OP".

You won't have zero resists in full impen, except maybe light armor unless you start adding outside sources, but you need defense in light armor like heavy armor needs offense.

You also will have penetration coming in. Light armor will have typically around 7k with sharp+passives and another 10% on their destro attacks, medium alot lower (2752) unless they go 20% mace. Both can get major resist debuffs. That puts a LA player fighting a 33100 target, Major breach will reduce 5280 (27820), destro passive will reduce that down by 10% for destro attacks (25038), LA passive +sharp will reduce by 7k (18038).

So back to the 15k dmg that crits, on your 33100 build in nCP, assuming you have no minor maim, your armor will be taking a 21795 against a nightblade. Your armor, if it was a magblade, will be 18038. Then you find out the percentage of what that armor is (18038/662/100 = 0.2724%. 100%-0.2724% = 0.7576%. 16511.892 final dmg hitting you.

Same attacker but build running 3000k resists (44%):
You will be lower resists, if at light armor yourself, but you can run 2-3 protective and get 18-20k resists but still hit 30k max mag because max stats is gutted in nCP anyway. 18k resists on the same penetration would be, after breach (12720), after destro (11448), LA+sharp (4448). 4448 armor becomes 6.7%, subtracted from 100% it is 0.933%.
1.5/1.6 modifer becomes 1.06\1.16. that 15k attack becomes 15900\17400. Same nightblade, but 17400 times 0.933% = 16234 final damage.

Therefore 3k CR on a lower resist build is the same as trying to stack high resists but giving up damage. That also assumes the attack crits. If the attack doesnt crit, then its 11,364 final damage on the 33k resist build and 13995 final damage on the 3k CR build.

It comes down to if you are giving up offense stats or not, and what crit percentage your attacker has. 9/10 builds in nCP will still have 40-50% crit percentage, so every other attack WILL be a crit. With how easy it is to get resists without giving up offense after tacking on a CR set, it makes no sense to stack such high resist sets anymore.

Lord-Otto

Biro123 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I put on Impreg. 4k crit resists. Sure, I could use Trans instead, but why would I? I need no requirements for Impreg, it's always there. 4k crit resist might seems excessive, but if you can, no, HAVE to afford it, why not? Also allows me to not waste a skillslot on Boundless Storm. Win in my CP book.

I tried impreg first, then switched to transmutation - as it doubles up as my sustain set too!

Pro tip, use rapid regen and have degeneration on you back bar (or at least the morph that gives extra health - whatever its called) - then every time you swap to your back-bar, your max health increases - but as your current health doesn't (immediately), you can be healed with a rapid regen tick - triggering the transmutation proc.
You're also buffing your overload attacks with it too..

I weighed Trans against Impreg. Could pair Trans with blue food, Impreg with CwC food.
Eh, I found it better to have the additional crit resist to save me from Boundless. Trans gave me like 4% more damage, which is really negligible. With Impreg I got more than 10% crit mitigation and can still run Lich, with minimal losses to stam sustain. Trans cries for stamina, so Shackle or Bright-Throat+glyphs. I really wanna hold onto Lich, it is defacto the strongest magicka set.

BlackMadara

MalagenR wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

Seriously though, you're only giving up a 2 and 3 armor bonus for transmutation.
And you do have a powerful Magicka dump in extended ritual, not a bad trade off (approximately 231 weapon damage for -.2 crit modifier)

If I had master dw I'd run those instead of bow probably.

Edit: I keep forgetting to add, giving the additional crit resistance to allies via vigor and extended ritual is extremely helpful, it is a BG build

I love your work with this!!

Back to OP, Crit mitigation is often misunderstood, and i think this thread gives you all the intel you need @MalagenR mitigation 50% Crit is the minimum really now as most folks with points in Eflborn (15-20%) and NB (+10%) are going to be hitting you for 70-80% Crit no worries.

This is why sorcs have been kicking off. As now we have to use traits that were helping our other issues to motivate damage. Where ever we get resistances & Crit resist & possibly health from comes at a loss in Sustain and or damage which we can't afford.

Oddly most sorcs will be MORE tanker after this patch, that's the irony. Pre patch i hit hard but if my wards when down pop i was dead, instant. Now when my wards are down ill.be able to take a load more damage. I've just lost sustain, and punch.

Tales of sorcs that can't die are going to get worse. Is all.

It's interesting in my Sorc's case. Pre-Murkmire I was running 2 sustain sets (Shackle+alteration) and mix-matched monster sets for stats. But zero impen. So i hit moderately hard and was able to sustain a fight.

Post Murkmire, I am running Pariah and Bright Throat with Bloodspawn. And it is insane. I still hit moderately hard because I was already not running a damage set. So my power hasn't changed. And with the new Overload, I feel like I have gotten stronger. But with Pariah and Bloodspawn i have crazy mitigation. Unbuffed, I am sitting at 20K resistances in light armor. Fully buffed with Pariah, Bloodspawn and Boundless storm, I am just under 40K.

With only 1500 crit resist coming from gear traits. Not even worrying about it too much since my base resistance is so high. The tankiness is next level.

But how do you sustain?

Assuming bright throat, witch mothers,sorc passives, and high elf, that is 2200 regen without enchants or atro.

Minno

usmguy1234 wrote: »

My templar has 30k resists and almost 4.5 crit resist and got hit by a 13k killers blade so just take that in to account.

That is because you can't completely negate damage. Otherwise it will be Elder Slap Boxing Online lol.

After armor/CR, major protection, shields, and block will grant you the best possible ways to drop dmg hard with block being the easiest and cheapest to get (right mouse button on 50% mit base)

MalagenR

I have a feeling that -

Bright Throat + Shackle Breaker + Bloodspawn is probably the best you can run for solo open world. I don't know that crit resist beats out dodge roll in a 1vX fight.

In non-cp - I ran Sload + Overwhelming + Troll King and I pretty much took 1st place every single game I played, 4 in a row for the 1st time I ever played, it's stupid easy to kill people in non-CP BG's after you've been 1vX'ing in Cyro for a couple of months.

In CP small group or zerg surfing - Crit Resist wins hands down to avoid being bursted.

I think if you want to build for solo open world you need to have 2k crit resist 1200 stam regen - 4 pieces impen - 3 pieces well fitted. Enough CP's into Resistant to break 2k at the very least.

I still don't get why people run the stamina version of dark deal. The stam regen from dark deal is really strong now. My typical escape is - Streak through them, Healing Ward (ani cancel bar swap) - Hardened Ward (dodge roll ani cancel bar swap) into Dark Deal on the Healing Ward bar.

You need to stack the Hardened on top of the Healing ward on the off chance that they can burst the healing ward down.

This is my end goal build for my open world build - built on a couple of foundational things -

You need to have mines & atronach for 1vX - period.
You need to have streak
Radiant is a god send vs. NB's, and everyone is running a blade, on your frag bar it's nice cause you can pull them out into a frag proc + Reach
Reach is a requirement, you need a spammable and a CC, plus you need a strong DOT to proc Skoria - Skoria takes the place of Curse for an RNG burst

This has 3k crit resist - Minor Maim - high Magicka regen, strong self heals, high HP, 38k Magicka, 45% crit on burst bar, 25% AOE damage reduction from Spectre's eye (as a vampire this is amazing for Dawnbreaker defense) - you could do Riposte front bar, spectre back bar to make it a little less RNG, but this works fine imo.

I've been using a water down version of this in purple and have been having a lot of success. You could probably swap out some of the Regen enchants for Spell damage if you prefer a bit more damage.

Combo is the same - Reach - Wrath - Frag - Streak + Soul Assault, if you can drag them into mines before you Reach KB you can skip the streak and Reach + Wrath + Frag + Soul Assault.

I've been using Dawnbreaker lately, it's strong, but I find that not having a ranged ultimate can be painful, so I'll be swapping for Soul Assault.

Thank me later -

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=80337

DTStormfox

Minno wrote: »

DTStormfox wrote: »

I personally decided to not go above 1000 critical resistance in no-cp pvp and focus more on physical and spell resistance (let's call them normal resistance levels).
The reasoning behind this is that most of the damage you receive is not critical damage. Yes, you will run into people that one-shot you, but the majority of players do not run such builds. By running a lot of critical damage you have a build that incorporates the probability of getting critically hit. Remember that critical resistance ONLY mitigates critical damage. Physical and Spell resistance levels mitigate both!

Let's say you run 3.5k crit resistance, which totally negates the critical modifier of 1.5, you have 0 physical resistance* and the base damage dealt was 5k. You will receive 5k multiplied by 1.0 = 5000 damage received and 2500 damage mitigated.

If you run 0 critical resistance and have 33100 physical resistance, which is the hard cap (approx) and the base damage dealt was 5k. You will receive 50% of 5k multiplied by 1.5 = 3750 damage and 1250 damage mitigated.

However, putting things in perspective:
A potential critical attack is 7500 damage with these numbers. With full impenetrable, you mitigated 2500 damage. But with full normal resistance levels, you mitigate the potential 7500 damage with 3750 damage!
Conclusion: You can mitigate more damage when at full resistance levels at all times, than running an impenetrable build. The downside is that normal resistance levels can be debuffed, critical resistance cannot be reduced, and bleeds ignore armour.


*for the sake of argument

(correct me if my calculations are wrong)

Crit resists happen first. If you have 1k crit resists, but your target has 1.5-1.6 (1.353/1.453), a 15k attack will be 20295\21795). Attacks will crit, ignoring them is what creates those threads like "omg bleedz OP" or "Sorc OP".

You won't have zero resists in full impen, except maybe light armor unless you start adding outside sources, but you need defense in light armor like heavy armor needs offense.

You also will have penetration coming in. Light armor will have typically around 7k with sharp+passives and another 10% on their destro attacks, medium alot lower (2752) unless they go 20% mace. Both can get major resist debuffs. That puts a LA player fighting a 33100 target, Major breach will reduce 5280 (27820), destro passive will reduce that down by 10% for destro attacks (25038), LA passive +sharp will reduce by 7k (18038).

So back to the 15k dmg that crits, on your 33100 build in nCP, assuming you have no minor maim, your armor will be taking a 21795 against a nightblade. Your armor, if it was a magblade, will be 18038. Then you find out the percentage of what that armor is (18038/662/100 = 0.2724%. 100%-0.2724% = 0.7576%. 16511.892 final dmg hitting you.

Same attacker but build running 3000k resists (44%):
You will be lower resists, if at light armor yourself, but you can run 2-3 protective and get 18-20k resists but still hit 30k max mag because max stats is gutted in nCP anyway. 18k resists on the same penetration would be, after breach (12720), after destro (11448), LA+sharp (4448). 4448 armor becomes 6.7%, subtracted from 100% it is 0.933%.
1.5/1.6 modifer becomes 1.06\1.16. that 15k attack becomes 15900\17400. Same nightblade, but 17400 times 0.933% = 16234 final damage.

Therefore 3k CR on a lower resist build is the same as trying to stack high resists but giving up damage. That also assumes the attack crits. If the attack doesnt crit, then its 11,364 final damage on the 33k resist build and 13995 final damage on the 3k CR build.

It comes down to if you are giving up offense stats or not, and what crit percentage your attacker has. 9/10 builds in nCP will still have 40-50% crit percentage, so every other attack WILL be a crit. With how easy it is to get resists without giving up offense after tacking on a CR set, it makes no sense to stack such high resist sets anymore.

You added a lot of info that alters the amount of damage dealt by the attacker and mitigated by the defender. I was oversimplifying the way mitigation works in extreme (unrealistic) circumstances. And you dont have to give up stats, you can simply replace Impregnable trait with Reinforced or Nirn.