Critical Damage - How much Crit Resist ?

MalagenR

Hey Everyone,

I fully respecced 4 of my pieces to Impen and dropped another 1000 points into crit resist from CP, so I'm sitting around 2k Crit Resist right now - yesterday I got smacked for a 13k scourge from a NB - that's with no major / minor buffs and wearing light armor - but I'm assuming that seeing a 13k tooltip on my death recap that it's really the bursty nature of a crit that is going to wreck me as a Sorc in this new patch.

So - instead of going for higher phys / spell resist

(I will probably need to do this by slotting 2 monster pc's instead of running with Engine Guardian & honestly I'm still struggling to kill people, I'd prefer to use Valkyn, however stam classes heal up to full is absolute *** without constantly running out of stamina)

I'm thinking I need more crit resist - so, what's the % of Crit Damage most of these stam players are running to drop 13k crits on 2k crit resist? Seems totally broken. I can definitely take infused off my big pieces and throw another 900 crit resist on, just not sure if that's better or worse.

Waffennacht

3k minimum in CP,

NB mods in CP can get to +2.0 crit modifier (or dealing +100% more)

With Shields being critable people are speccin more crit too

Even then 3k will still have some hit you hard

Asmael

Extract from @paulsimonps ' thread about damage mitigation:

CRITICAL RESISTANCE:

Now critical resistance works very differently from the other forms of resistance. What it does is it lowers the enemy players critical hit damage modifier. A characters base modifier is 1.5 which means that if you land a critical hit then you deal 50% more damage. There are ways to improve this, such as minor and major force or the Champion point system. What we are gonna be looking at of course is how we can reduce that modifier. This one is very special cause unlike mitigation that is a multiplicative reduction this one is actually a subtractive one. This is the formula:

CRITICAL MODIFIER=1.5+(Critical Damage Buff #1/100)+(Critical Damage Buff #2/100)+(etc etc)-(Critical Resistance/68/100)

DAMAGE TAKEN=Base Damage*(1.5+(Critical Damage Buff #1/100)+(Critical Damage Buff #2/100)+(etc etc)-(Critical Resistance/68/100))

If a player has base critical modifier and they hit an enemy player that has 100 points into Resistant then their modifier will be affected like this:

1.5-(1650/68/100)=1.5-0.24264705882~1.5-0.24=1.26

Finding out what the % per resistance was was not easy but from my testing I have found that it is 68(if someone else has a different number I would love to see it.). This means that 100 points into Resistant gives you ~24% critical hit resistance. The total amount of critical hit resistance possible is 7518 or 110%. I now want to make something perfectly clear, THERE IS NO CRITICAL RESISTANCE HARD CAP! Ok? Ok! There isn't even enough critical resistance available to justify having it. Max resistance is 110% and highest possible critical damage modifier is 115%.

We have now gone through everything you need to know to calculate mitigation on any character you want or any situation you want. But before we get to the list of all the different sources there is one special ability I want to address cause the rules that it uses are not very straight forward, that ability is...

Minno

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

MalagenR

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

Minno

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

geonsocal

my 2 septims - you can't build to fight against maybe 5% of the player base...

which, is that 5% which can hit for that much crit damage...

I'd build towards a bit higher health to absorb the damage, then reset the fight with shields, heals and a cc...

hmmmm, just read what minno and waffenacht wrote...that's some good stuff there...

I'm normally happy at 2k crit resist...

who knows - maybe I need to re-think things...I haven't taken my sorc out for a spin in a while...

MalagenR

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Yes, but Sorc skills don't synergize even remotely close in comparison to Templars, DK's, or NB's. We don't have damage skills that simultaneously do significant amounts of damage and buff our damage and heal us. If you look at individual skill cost for our defense it's even worse.

Stamina classes also have a distinct advantage in that their offensive & defensive stats scale with the best form of active defense, roll dodging.

Mag classes are required to balance Magicka, Stamina, & Health (they linked HP to shields so yes, now it's a balancing act)

Stam classes are required to balance Stamina only

Before this patch, if you were Mag, and you were any good, you were running a Mag Sustain + a Stam Sustain
If you were Stam, you were running a Stam Sustain + Defense set (because you absolutely needed the crit resistance)

The significant difference obviously comes down to two things then:

1. Active defense - roll dodging = the best mitigation in game
2. Self Buffs - Sorc is the absolute worst class with this in mind... absolute worst....our passives don't synergize with our skillsets in a meaningful way, we have no method for getting both Major/Minor Resolve, Major Sorcery, etc. that occurs in a meaningful way, which means you don't see us simultaneously doing damage with a skill and buffing ourselves, it's one or the other, which means we are severely limited in our skill bar choices.

To fix Mag you need to considerably buff some of their active damage skills to provide self buffs -

Curse or Frag should provide sorcery - or power surge should put a lightning DOT on a single enemy that hits for a decent amount of damage to make it worth using over something like Reach.

Defensive Rune should provide Major buffs until consumed by an enemy

We need an effective root to deal with gap closers since our escape is tied to a significant magicka drain - major vitality, seriously, on what self heals?

Don't even get me started on the cast time with Dark Exchange, it should be instant, we are the only class with a heal like this, it's absolutely silly.

Minno

geonsocal wrote: »

my 2 septims - you can't build to fight against maybe 5% of the player base...

which, is that 5% which can hit for that much crit damage...

I'd build towards a bit higher health to absorb the damage, then reset the fight with shields, heals and a cc...

hmmmm, just read what minno and waffenacht wrote...that's some good stuff there...

I'm normally happy at 2k crit resist...

who knows - maybe I need to re-think things...I haven't taken my sorc out for a spin in a while...

do what makes you comfortable, first! If you can rock 2k crit resists, more power to you. Can't go wrong with higher health either.

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Yes, but Sorc skills don't synergize even remotely close in comparison to Templars, DK's, or NB's. We don't have damage skills that simultaneously do significant amounts of damage and buff our damage and heal us. If you look at individual skill cost for our defense it's even worse.

Stamina classes also have a distinct advantage in that their offensive & defensive stats scale with the best form of active defense, roll dodging.

Mag classes are required to balance Magicka, Stamina, & Health (they linked HP to shields so yes, now it's a balancing act)

Stam classes are required to balance Stamina only

Before this patch, if you were Mag, and you were any good, you were running a Mag Sustain + a Stam Sustain
If you were Stam, you were running a Stam Sustain + Defense set (because you absolutely needed the crit resistance)

The significant difference obviously comes down to two things then:

1. Active defense - roll dodging = the best mitigation in game
2. Self Buffs - Sorc is the absolute worst class with this in mind... absolute worst....our passives don't synergize with our skillsets in a meaningful way, we have no method for getting both Major/Minor Resolve, Major Sorcery, etc. that occurs in a meaningful way, which means you don't see us simultaneously doing damage with a skill and buffing ourselves, it's one or the other, which means we are severely limited in our skill bar choices.

To fix Mag you need to considerably buff some of their active damage skills to provide self buffs -

Curse or Frag should provide sorcery - or power surge should put a lightning DOT on a single enemy that hits for a decent amount of damage to make it worth using over something like Reach.

Defensive Rune should provide Major buffs until consumed by an enemy

We need an effective root to deal with gap closers since our escape is tied to a significant magicka drain - major vitality, seriously, on what self heals?

Don't even get me started on the cast time with Dark Exchange, it should be instant, we are the only class with a heal like this, it's absolutely silly.

Alot of templar stuff doesn't work together. Like javelin cc but total dark needing cc immunity, or melee spamable but only an active cast defensive mechanic or bol effectiveness requiring block-casting, our "curse" requires soaking up damage every 6 seconds, etc.

But on topic, till they add other ways to boost crit resists in a 1.8/1.9CHD meta, trans/impreg are almost required for most classes.

montiferus

Perhaps it depends on your play style but 2k crit resist sounds pretty crazy to me. If you fight outnumbered you need to build to mitigate as much burst as possible and 2k doesn't get you there. 3k is the minimum to me.

MalagenR

Minno wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

my 2 septims - you can't build to fight against maybe 5% of the player base...

which, is that 5% which can hit for that much crit damage...

I'd build towards a bit higher health to absorb the damage, then reset the fight with shields, heals and a cc...

hmmmm, just read what minno and waffenacht wrote...that's some good stuff there...

I'm normally happy at 2k crit resist...

who knows - maybe I need to re-think things...I haven't taken my sorc out for a spin in a while...

do what makes you comfortable, first! If you can rock 2k crit resists, more power to you. Can't go wrong with higher health either.

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Yes, but Sorc skills don't synergize even remotely close in comparison to Templars, DK's, or NB's. We don't have damage skills that simultaneously do significant amounts of damage and buff our damage and heal us. If you look at individual skill cost for our defense it's even worse.

Stamina classes also have a distinct advantage in that their offensive & defensive stats scale with the best form of active defense, roll dodging.

Mag classes are required to balance Magicka, Stamina, & Health (they linked HP to shields so yes, now it's a balancing act)

Stam classes are required to balance Stamina only

Before this patch, if you were Mag, and you were any good, you were running a Mag Sustain + a Stam Sustain
If you were Stam, you were running a Stam Sustain + Defense set (because you absolutely needed the crit resistance)

The significant difference obviously comes down to two things then:

1. Active defense - roll dodging = the best mitigation in game
2. Self Buffs - Sorc is the absolute worst class with this in mind... absolute worst....our passives don't synergize with our skillsets in a meaningful way, we have no method for getting both Major/Minor Resolve, Major Sorcery, etc. that occurs in a meaningful way, which means you don't see us simultaneously doing damage with a skill and buffing ourselves, it's one or the other, which means we are severely limited in our skill bar choices.

To fix Mag you need to considerably buff some of their active damage skills to provide self buffs -

Curse or Frag should provide sorcery - or power surge should put a lightning DOT on a single enemy that hits for a decent amount of damage to make it worth using over something like Reach.

Defensive Rune should provide Major buffs until consumed by an enemy

We need an effective root to deal with gap closers since our escape is tied to a significant magicka drain - major vitality, seriously, on what self heals?

Don't even get me started on the cast time with Dark Exchange, it should be instant, we are the only class with a heal like this, it's absolutely silly.

Alot of templar stuff doesn't work together. Like javelin cc but total dark needing cc immunity, or melee spamable but only an active cast defensive mechanic or bol effectiveness requiring block-casting, our "curse" requires soaking up damage every 6 seconds, etc.

But on topic, till they add other ways to boost crit resists in a 1.8/1.9CHD meta, trans/impreg are almost required for most classes.

Yeah I wasn't sure about Templar but I watched a video for a MagDK today and was just floored by the amount of synergy they have at the class level for their skills.

Sorc is a legitimate one trick pony. You're 100% correct, I don't even see Transmutation as viable because you need the crit resist to exist 100% of the time.

You pretty much have to run Shackle Breaker + Impregnable to solo.

geonsocal

man, good thing I still got that set of light impregnable sitting in the bank

hmmmm, this is making me interested in getting my mag sorc out in cyro to see what the new patch feels like...

I like a challenge...kind of annoying and frustrating having to re-tool, but, still an interesting problem to solve...

I've always really liked wearing at least 2 offensive sets on my mag sorc...that may just not be possible anymore...

BlackMadara

@Minno Should we put mitigating all crit damage as such a high priority? I have been running Pariah (bias because i love this set) with 3200 (47% crit resist), and decided to run a quick calc comparing my build to impreg with 4080 crit resist.

Some background. I run a light armor (5-1-1) mDK bruiser style build utilizing Pariah as my source of mitigation. Using Build Editor and equalizing (as much as possible) stats to place the Impreg's physical resist at the same number as Pariah (31% mitigation), here are some numbers.

Taking an incap from a stam NB using Spiggans and Bonepirate, debuffed with SA, tooltip 17378

50% hp (Pariah providing +4255 physical resist)

Pariah - noncrit 7088 crit 9423
Impreg - noncrit 7650 crit 9171

Now Full hp paints a different story

Pariah - noncrit 7646 crit 10165
Impreg - noncrit 7650 crit 9171

Impreg is an impressive defensive set, but how much weight are you applying those defensive capabilities vs other defensive sets, jewelry traits, etc? And what situations are you applying your analysis? For myself, so far, Pariah allows me to place more damage and pseudo-sustain (with max stats) into my build, and allows a more risky play-style, allowing myself to to get low hp in fights to secure a kill and then healing with Coag. On the other hand, Impreg would stop more of the spike damage in the first place, at the cost of damage and being restricted to crits.

Impreg obviously mitigates a huge amount of crit damage, but adding other sources of mitigation can out perform pure crit resist and comes at the benefit of mitigating noncrits as well. Do you still find Impreg to be the best defensive option when taking into account all options for mitigation? (I admittedly did not use defensive CP other than crit resist in my calcs.)

Minno

BlackMadara wrote: »

@Minno Should we put mitigating all crit damage as such a high priority? I have been running Pariah (bias because i love this set) with 3200 (47% crit resist), and decided to run a quick calc comparing my build to impreg with 4080 crit resist.

Some background. I run a light armor (5-1-1) mDK bruiser style build utilizing Pariah as my source of mitigation. Using Build Editor and equalizing (as much as possible) stats to place the Impreg's physical resist at the same number as Pariah (31% mitigation), here are some numbers.

Taking an incap from a stam NB using Spiggans and Bonepirate, debuffed with SA, tooltip 17378

50% hp (Pariah providing +4255 physical resist)

Pariah - noncrit 7088 crit 9423
Impreg - noncrit 7650 crit 9171

Now Full hp paints a different story

Pariah - noncrit 7646 crit 10165
Impreg - noncrit 7650 crit 9171

Impreg is an impressive defensive set, but how much weight are you applying those defensive capabilities vs other defensive sets, jewelry traits, etc? And what situations are you applying your analysis? For myself, so far, Pariah allows me to place more damage and pseudo-sustain (with max stats) into my build, and allows a more risky play-style, allowing myself to to get low hp in fights to secure a kill and then healing with Coag. On the other hand, Impreg would stop more of the spike damage in the first place, at the cost of damage and being restricted to crits.

Impreg obviously mitigates a huge amount of crit damage, but adding other sources of mitigation can out perform pure crit resist and comes at the benefit of mitigating noncrits as well. Do you still find Impreg to be the best defensive option when taking into account all options for mitigation? (I admittedly did not use defensive CP other than crit resist in my calcs.)

Crit resists need resists and vice versa. They go hand in hand, that is why pariah works for you here with your 3k CR.

Thing to note, crits happen before mitigation, so to compare you have to buff up the crit attack then apply the armor mitigation after penetration.

We will need to run a full damage calc in order to see how effective both sets are. What is your total armor raiting at 44% health with pariah?

BlackMadara

Indeed.

My physical resists should sit at 25400 at 44%. (Not at my pc, but calculated based on build editor and the fact that pariah scales linearly, I believe).

Minno

BlackMadara wrote: »

Indeed.

My physical resists should sit at 25400 at 44%. (Not at my pc, but calculated based on build editor and the fact that pariah scales linearly, I believe).

12% mitigation left via armor with pariah.
versus, if you can get 20k with impreg, 3.9%.

Pariah:
15000 tolltip attack, with 3200 (47% crit resist) and target is using 1.8 modifer, 1.33 CHD. so 15k becomes 19950.

19950 tooltip crit times 0.88% = 17556 which becomes 8778 after battlespirit.

Impreg:
15000 tolltip attack, with 4080 (60% crit resist) and target is using 1.8 modifer, 1.20 CHD. so 15k becomes 18000.

18000 tooltip crit times 0.961% = 17298 which becomes 8649 after battlespirit.

Impreg comes out on top but a small sliver.

edit:
added values after battlespirit too.

Waffennacht

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

DKsUnite

3k at a minimum

barshemm

3k minimum in heavy seemed fine. Boosting up to 4.2k in medium made medium work for me.

Vapirko

3k for heavy, and also light if you’re comfortable with shield use and don’t experience much lag. More for medium and also light if you’re not very experienced or play with a high ping.

Vapirko

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

Waffennacht

Vapirko wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

With the Nerf to impreg I wanted more crit resistance while still being able to roll dodge a massive amount.

The 2 and 3 of transmutation is mag regen, I pair that with mag return rune. I can use extended ritual at will, and my secret weapon is using toppling charge as my hard CC (the guaranteed CC morph) - on my 2h bar, binding javelin on my bow bar

Using toppling to set up my Onslaught to ensure it lands.

Transmutation backbar only and transmuted jewelry means I'm losing very little by running transmutation.

It's an experimental build that I'm really enjoying

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

With the Nerf to impreg I wanted more crit resistance while still being able to roll dodge a massive amount.

The 2 and 3 of transmutation is mag regen, I pair that with mag return rune. I can use extended ritual at will, and my secret weapon is using toppling charge as my hard CC (the guaranteed CC morph) - on my 2h bar, binding javelin on my bow bar

Using toppling to set up my Onslaught to ensure it lands.

Transmutation backbar only and transmuted jewelry means I'm losing very little by running transmutation.

It's an experimental build that I'm really enjoying

You're weird

Got footage? I enjoy hybrid type bg builds

Waffennacht

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

With the Nerf to impreg I wanted more crit resistance while still being able to roll dodge a massive amount.

The 2 and 3 of transmutation is mag regen, I pair that with mag return rune. I can use extended ritual at will, and my secret weapon is using toppling charge as my hard CC (the guaranteed CC morph) - on my 2h bar, binding javelin on my bow bar

Using toppling to set up my Onslaught to ensure it lands.

Transmutation backbar only and transmuted jewelry means I'm losing very little by running transmutation.

It's an experimental build that I'm really enjoying

You're weird

Got footage? I enjoy hybrid type bg builds

Lol! No footage yet. I've only ran it in about 6 BGs now. It has taken... 200 crystals and I still need 55 more (have 45 ATM) to finish the build. I don't plan on running for Balorgh medium helm or well fitted.

I just remembered my hands aren't the correct trait either...

And to be honest I wasn't even completely sold on the idea myself and that's why I haven't committed the mats to Golding my transmutation 2h

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

With the Nerf to impreg I wanted more crit resistance while still being able to roll dodge a massive amount.

The 2 and 3 of transmutation is mag regen, I pair that with mag return rune. I can use extended ritual at will, and my secret weapon is using toppling charge as my hard CC (the guaranteed CC morph) - on my 2h bar, binding javelin on my bow bar

Using toppling to set up my Onslaught to ensure it lands.

Transmutation backbar only and transmuted jewelry means I'm losing very little by running transmutation.

It's an experimental build that I'm really enjoying

You're weird

Got footage? I enjoy hybrid type bg builds

Lol! No footage yet. I've only ran it in about 6 BGs now. It has taken... 200 crystals and I still need 55 more (have 45 ATM) to finish the build. I don't plan on running for Balorgh medium helm or well fitted.

I just remembered my hands aren't the correct trait either...

And to be honest I wasn't even completely sold on the idea myself and that's why I haven't committed the mats to Golding my transmutation 2h

You just need 4 gold well fitted to match CP 20% cost reduction. I wouldn't go past that. Then use 2 divines for extra damage via mundas.

Waffennacht

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'll come clean;

I'm running impreg and transmutation on my stamplar

All jewelry transmuted to x2 infused, robust
x3 jewelry, 2H transmutation

Impreg all body
Shackle breaker bow (weapon damage and craftable, after modifiers out performs agility)

This let's me run full well-fitted x7 medium while still having 3250 crit resistance in BGs (well ideally my helm is heavy boo)

x2 Balorgh to compensate for weapon dmg loss and is absolutely bananas combined with Onslaught.

The build is extremely tanky and extremely difficult to pin down. That's how good crit resistance is

Transmutation on a stamplar? Why?

With the Nerf to impreg I wanted more crit resistance while still being able to roll dodge a massive amount.

The 2 and 3 of transmutation is mag regen, I pair that with mag return rune. I can use extended ritual at will, and my secret weapon is using toppling charge as my hard CC (the guaranteed CC morph) - on my 2h bar, binding javelin on my bow bar

Using toppling to set up my Onslaught to ensure it lands.

Transmutation backbar only and transmuted jewelry means I'm losing very little by running transmutation.

It's an experimental build that I'm really enjoying

You're weird

Got footage? I enjoy hybrid type bg builds

Lol! No footage yet. I've only ran it in about 6 BGs now. It has taken... 200 crystals and I still need 55 more (have 45 ATM) to finish the build. I don't plan on running for Balorgh medium helm or well fitted.

I just remembered my hands aren't the correct trait either...

And to be honest I wasn't even completely sold on the idea myself and that's why I haven't committed the mats to Golding my transmutation 2h

You just need 4 gold well fitted to match CP 20% cost reduction. I wouldn't go past that. Then use 2 divines for extra damage via mundas.

I definitely feel the difference between 5 and 7, I prefer more reduction. The added damage is less noticeable for me.

It's also an Argonian if that means anything.

Anywho, 3k impen is my goal for most builds, how to go about it is where the spice of variety comes from

montiferus

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

Waffennacht

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

Seriously though, you're only giving up a 2 and 3 armor bonus for transmutation.
And you do have a powerful Magicka dump in extended ritual, not a bad trade off (approximately 231 weapon damage for -.2 crit modifier)

If I had master dw I'd run those instead of bow probably.

Edit: I keep forgetting to add, giving the additional crit resistance to allies via vigor and extended ritual is extremely helpful, it is a BG build

NinchiTV

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

2k crit resists = 29% modifer defense. Against:
- 50% base CHD, you are taking a 21% extra damage on crits (15k tooltip dmg before mitigation, is now 18150 that now must be reduced by your normal mitigation)
- 60% becomes 31% = 19650 (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 41% = 21150 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 51% = 22650 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 61% = 24151 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

three of these will instagib anyone not running more than 23k health or not dodging/blocking.

If you had 4080k crit resists it's a different story:
- 60% becomes 0% = 15000 base tooltip or doesn't crit (most of cyro with 10% CP, or nightblade/templar with only their CHD passive)
- 70% becomes 10% = 16500 (most of cyro with 20% CP or nigthblade/templar with 10% CP and their CHD passive
- 80% becomes 20% = 18000 (classes with minor force+20% CP or nightblade/templar with their passives and 20% CP)
- 90% becomes 30% = 19500 (only CP nightblades/templars with 20% CP, CHD passive, and minor force)

Now you know why I say 4k is the new minimum in PVP. Don't give players free damage; slot more crit resists.

This is literally why I came asking this question, it seemed ridiculous but it is what it is, this is the new *** Sorc's have to deal with now that shields can be crit.

They drastically nerfed our defense which in turn drastically nerfs our sustain and damage. So crazy.

It's always been that way, just now hitting sorcs/shield users.

They need to add crit resists to jewel traits so you can nulify all crit damage at expense of your max stats or run 3pc jewels to deslot trans/impreg to run other sets.

Yes, but Sorc skills don't synergize even remotely close in comparison to Templars, DK's, or NB's. We don't have damage skills that simultaneously do significant amounts of damage and buff our damage and heal us. If you look at individual skill cost for our defense it's even worse.

Stamina classes also have a distinct advantage in that their offensive & defensive stats scale with the best form of active defense, roll dodging.

Mag classes are required to balance Magicka, Stamina, & Health (they linked HP to shields so yes, now it's a balancing act)

Stam classes are required to balance Stamina only

Before this patch, if you were Mag, and you were any good, you were running a Mag Sustain + a Stam Sustain
If you were Stam, you were running a Stam Sustain + Defense set (because you absolutely needed the crit resistance)

The significant difference obviously comes down to two things then:

1. Active defense - roll dodging = the best mitigation in game
2. Self Buffs - Sorc is the absolute worst class with this in mind... absolute worst....our passives don't synergize with our skillsets in a meaningful way, we have no method for getting both Major/Minor Resolve, Major Sorcery, etc. that occurs in a meaningful way, which means you don't see us simultaneously doing damage with a skill and buffing ourselves, it's one or the other, which means we are severely limited in our skill bar choices.

To fix Mag you need to considerably buff some of their active damage skills to provide self buffs -

Curse or Frag should provide sorcery - or power surge should put a lightning DOT on a single enemy that hits for a decent amount of damage to make it worth using over something like Reach.

Defensive Rune should provide Major buffs until consumed by an enemy

We need an effective root to deal with gap closers since our escape is tied to a significant magicka drain - major vitality, seriously, on what self heals?

Don't even get me started on the cast time with Dark Exchange, it should be instant, we are the only class with a heal like this, it's absolutely silly.

Bingo.

Beardimus

Waffennacht wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Lol transmutation on a stamplar.

You're intrigued, I know you are

Seriously though, you're only giving up a 2 and 3 armor bonus for transmutation.
And you do have a powerful Magicka dump in extended ritual, not a bad trade off (approximately 231 weapon damage for -.2 crit modifier)

If I had master dw I'd run those instead of bow probably.

Edit: I keep forgetting to add, giving the additional crit resistance to allies via vigor and extended ritual is extremely helpful, it is a BG build

I love your work with this!!

Back to OP, Crit mitigation is often misunderstood, and i think this thread gives you all the intel you need @MalagenR mitigation 50% Crit is the minimum really now as most folks with points in Eflborn (15-20%) and NB (+10%) are going to be hitting you for 70-80% Crit no worries.

This is why sorcs have been kicking off. As now we have to use traits that were helping our other issues to motivate damage. Where ever we get resistances & Crit resist & possibly health from comes at a loss in Sustain and or damage which we can't afford.

Oddly most sorcs will be MORE tanker after this patch, that's the irony. Pre patch i hit hard but if my wards when down pop i was dead, instant. Now when my wards are down ill.be able to take a load more damage. I've just lost sustain, and punch.

Tales of sorcs that can't die are going to get worse. Is all.

ATomiX96

bit off topic, but has anyone tried some divine impreg + crit resist cp + steed mundus shenanigans? does it boost the 10% speed from mundus or only the health regen part ?

edit: nvm a quick google search crushed my idea