About DPS and trial runs (Vet and norm)

furstreak

This is going to be sort of a rant slash informative discussion about trials DPS and play.

First of all I would like to say that I have no problems with dps with my toons because I know how to play them. This is just a generalization so that other will know my previous plight and some of the other lower CP players plights as well.

I see people in many cities asking for PUG group to do various trials. But when it comes to picking up DPS they demand a certain number from those people in order to have them join mainly vet trials. Now, I can understand wanting great DPS so you can get through the trial. But some people will lie and it throws everything into the grinder when they try to do a vet trial. A few groups will ask for DPS tests. This weeds out people who cant cut it. but keeps the group hanging for extended periods of time, which sometimes cause them to leave the group entirely or go afk until they either get bored and leave or disconnect form lack of movement.

What I'm getting at here is that when a person does a DPS test. Nine times outta ten they do it solo. Without outside buffs, with different gear setups, and they NEVER MOVE. Every video I've seen of a dps test shows the person standing still. Now I can understand that if a group has an exceptionally awesome healer or set of healers, they wont need to move. But during a trial, stam toons and sometimes even mag toons will have to move to avoid attacks or roaming enemies that are out for blood, thereby decreasing their dps.

A run through of a 3 million hp dummy on a 45k dps test ranges from 90 to 120 seconds if you don't miss a beat and you know a perfect rotation. Average DPS ranges from 23k plus for most people who don't have a good rotation but has decent gear. good dps will run better with the same gear but having a better rotation.

Pulling over 45k dps is not only very hard, but in a sustainable fight against a massive hp monster or boss fight will wear the person out. Muscle memory sometimes helps play a part in the success of the group in the trial but not always as there are usually some that will slack off in the fight even though they've proven themselves to have adequate dps.

This happened to me the other night in Hel Ra Citidal in a NORMAL trial. The group couldn't even get past the first boss. The tank was great, dont get me wrong, and the healers were superb. But the dps was severely slacking to the point that I stopped entirely just to see how much the group was putting out.

My average time on a 3 mil dummy is just around 2 and a half minutes without pushing myself. 1 min 45 if I get on it hard. This is with a stamblade wearing Vicious ophidian and relequins, with max CP. Maces on front bare and bow on back. DOT build with high weapon dmg and decent sustain. (kahjiit for those asking)

With me and the group hammering the 1st boss it took about 15 seconds to go through almost a million health. 15 seconds....... That's terrible! Now i'm not doing the calculations because it'd take too long but if everyone in the group were pulling a min of 25k dps it wouldn't take more than 5 seconds to run through a million hp. (8 dps for HRC is what we had on norm, don't ask I already know)

Once I stopped..... I wont even say it. I'm not tooting my own horn here, its just that I would like to ask that if you have good dps, please have a video or screen shot and use that gear.

Ono the next part of this topic. This is for those guilds and groups that require dps tests. All I want to say to you is PLEASE remember that when a person does a dps test, they are standing still and not avoiding attacks or rezzing people or various other things while in actual combat. They are also getting group buffs as well, so someone that would normally hit around 23k dps will hit a bit higher if not double that. So when you tell them they cant join because their dps sucks, remember that.

BUT

Remember that it could still remain the same too because of dodging attacks and whatnot. There are quite a few variable that come into play when it comes to actual DPS accuracy.


Please feel free to comment and make constructive criticism and suggestions. If you feel that I am wrong please post your proof so that you aren't called out on it. I do not respond quickly to my posts, if at all due to time limitations and the sever lack of a working or functional computer.

Mister_DMC

While I understand your frustration as a newer player to trials and perhaps DPS testing all great dps players will hit significantly harder than their best solo parse in a trial due to added party buffs. While this may seem impossible to you I'll use the first boss of Hel Ra as an example, Ra Kotu.

It's typical of highly capable DPS players to hit 70-80k+ on this fight as it's basically a glorified target dummy. He has a huge hit box and all the dps has to do is side step out of the wind gusts from time to time.

Keep at it, you'll get there with lots of practice. Thousands of hours (I'm not exaggerating) of practice. I'm sitting at over 4000 hours into this game now.

Rungar

gotta take a test to play the game. ...

nothing wrong here...

Drdeath20

Yeah some people need 1 on 1 help to get better.

adeptusminor

Every experienced guild leader knows that dummy tests doesn't = trial performance. What they are looking for is a baseline. That's why many will require certain mundus stones/foods/etc etc. They also know that you can't compare one class to another, because some classes will parse higher just by the nature of the inbuilt buffs that class has and some will scale and benefit from raid buffs more than others.

Most Craglorn trial bosses are more or less dummy parses. They stand in place, the mechanics can be healed through, and there isn't a lot of movement to worry about.

With a good group, people that parse 20k on a dummy could potentially parse 30-40k once raid buffs are applied. On the other hand if you are in a bad group with bad uptimes and inexperienced healers you could end up parsing lower because you are having to shield/self heal and move around a lot more than you would with a better healer or tank. Trials are a group effort and everyone's ability has the potential have an effect on the rest of the group.

Honestly it sounds like you got into a pug that might not have been the best and you might have been carrying them a little bit on the DPS side. That happens sometimes with pug groups, even ones where the leader has high expectations. I'd recommend joining an active trials guild. A vast majority of them are filled with people willing to help lift others up and don't mind helping people, as long as those people are looking for help and can handle constructive criticism.

FakeFox

I think you are doing something wrong if pressing a sequence of ten buttons for 3 minutes "wears you out."

Mister_DMC

Rungar wrote: »

gotta take a test to play the game. ...

nothing wrong here...

It's an odd concept to come to terms with and it's overstated that's for sure but there is absolutely a minium threshold for success in any vet trial. Typically those unwilling to test are incapable of hitting even the lowest of requirements and more importantly unwilling to improve.

Effort equals return and all that.

Shawn_PT

Parses aside, I think what is wrong with this situation is the absurd fixation people have for parses and XPS in a normal trial. It matters not if you're experienced, if you're pulling your weight, if you know the mechanics like the back of your hand. People asking for a parse for a normal farming run is just absurd. I understand that they don't want to spend half an hour in a trial they could get done in 15 minutes. But if you want a group if 45k+ DDs, perfect tanks and flawless healers, you won't be picking them up from zone chat.

The other day I was kicked out of a group as soon as I was invited because I was on a low level healer. Just looking to get that dremora skull achievement on all my characters. I asked why I was kicked. They asked my level. I said I was 1100+ CP. They said I was lvl 47 or whatever I was. It mattered not that I tried to reason with them saying I was by far the person with the most CP in the half group they had at the time. It mattered not that I have farmed that trial on vet until exhaustion on both my tank and healer. All I was asked over and over again was 'what's your HPS.' For a normal mini trial. This is totally absurd, but it's the mentality that has been spreading through the community. I can only guess this is because the skill gap between the 'casual' and the 'serious' player has grown so large.

In any case I didn't get the achievement on my baby healer. But I got a brand new entry on my block list (because that's the only way we have to keep track of people) under 'Elitist Prick'. They're a bunch right now. Luckily it'll be a few years until I run out of space there.

zaria

Shawn_PT wrote: »

Parses aside, I think what is wrong with this situation is the absurd fixation people have for parses and XPS in a normal trial. It matters not if you're experienced, if you're pulling your weight, if you know the mechanics like the back of your hand. People asking for a parse for a normal farming run is just absurd. I understand that they don't want to spend half an hour in a trial they could get done in 15 minutes. But if you want a group if 45k+ DDs, perfect tanks and flawless healers, you won't be picking them up from zone chat.

The other day I was kicked out of a group as soon as I was invited because I was on a low level healer. Just looking to get that dremora skull achievement on all my characters. I asked why I was kicked. They asked my level. I said I was 1100+ CP. They said I was lvl 47 or whatever I was. It mattered not that I tried to reason with them saying I was by far the person with the most CP in the half group they had at the time. It mattered not that I have farmed that trial on vet until exhaustion on both my tank and healer. All I was asked over and over again was 'what's your HPS.' For a normal mini trial. This is totally absurd, but it's the mentality that has been spreading through the community. I can only guess this is because the skill gap between the 'casual' and the 'serious' player has grown so large.

In any case I didn't get the achievement on my baby healer. But I got a brand new entry on my block list (because that's the only way we have to keep track of people) under 'Elitist Prick'. They're a bunch right now. Luckily it'll be a few years until I run out of space there.

Normal craglorn trials is more like normal dlc in difficulty, wipes are rare, say nHRC is the only who has it and mostly because one side get healers and tank or people mess up on last boss.
nMoL require some knowledge and nHoF is not very pugable, nAsylum tend to be messy, nCloadrest+0 is easy.

Farmed normal craglorn hard during the event as it was so many runs. You would probaly done better queuing as DD as healers and tanks are important in trials, it was no issue with <50 dd in any of our runs but generaly you should be >cp160 so you can swap gear.

idk

The OP lost me as early in the post it is mentioned about doing a vet trial. However, later in the post the example used is normal trials

1st, if a group is looking to Zone to fill a vet trial group they are showing desperation for some reason. Granted the Craglorn trials are pretty easy, but still.

2nd. for normal trials it pretty much does not matter how much DPS a group does. The mechanics and dps needs are pretty low. Going to Zone to fill these is rarely an issue.

Jameliel

Worst raids, worst mechanics, worst combat, worst designers/devs/staff of any major MMO EVER. To fix the problem, start at the root. ZO$ needs new staff from the bottom to the top. The levels of incompetence are constantly on display here as well as throughout the game. A constructively given idea is to have 1 single person who has the power to start replacing staff.