What? Jabs is perfect for LA weaving. Read my post again.You mean, that is why people hate using jabs...?
It is clunky, because its duration is longer than 1 GCD, and therefore weaving even makes it feel clunkier.
Channeled or cast time?.Channeled abilities are just the same plus the cast time before the skill fires.
Kinda. But there are skills with 1 sec cast time, should be perfect to weaving. Did you even read my post, dude?The clunkiness from cast time abilities does not come from the additional time the animation consumes, rather from the exceeding of the GCD.
Incorrect. You have to leave some time for skill animation (grounded need it for sure).Normal skills end their animation within 1 GCD, so you have plenty of time to use a light attack before you can cast again a skill.
[snip] You can never cast two abilities faster than 1 sec, with LA in between or not. And 1s casting time just add 100ms, you'll unlikely notice it.So with an instant cast ability, you could have casted 2 abilities and a light attack while others just finished their 1 sec cast time.
I'm not against casting time at all, just make sure you inform people truthfully. Btw there is no much difference between 1 sec and 1,4 sec in PvP.I think on some skills cast times are very well needed, because they are strong and make their use situational. An example is dark deal, which in PvP is normally casted, when you get the time to do so via LOSing or taking some distance. Without the channel, this skill would be far too strong and could bee used without any drawbacks in any situations.
OP, the cast time for skills such as frags, dark deal, blood altar, etc. is the time necessary to elapse before the skill takes full effect, the proc stage as you refer to it. For skills without this cast time you can fit both the proc stage and a LA in a single GCD. For skills with a cast time of 1 second or more, 1 second, i.e., one GCD, has to pass before the proc stage. You’re right in suggesting that you can LA weave with such skills, but the weave takes two GCDs instead of one because you spent one of those in the cast stage of the ability prior to its proc stage. So take LA weaving with frags, which has a cast time that takes a full GCD, for example:
1 GCD: cast stage
2 GCD: proc stage + LA
3 GCD: cast stage
4 GCD: proc stage + LA
etc.
And compare this to LA weaving with force pulse, which doesn’t have a cast time:
1 GCD: proc stage + LA
2 GCD: proc stage + LA
3 GCD: proc stage + LA
4 GCD: proc stage + LA
(The technical details might be a bit more convoluted, such as force pulse having a cast stage as well, but even if it does the cast stage and proc stage fit into a single GCD with time to spare for a LA.)
Jabs and flurry are skills that have effects occur during their cast stage, but by design have the big damage tick occur during their proc stage so that if you do cancel them early you won’t get the full effect. Despite the earlier effects, though, jabs, which iirc has a cast time of 1.1 seconds, would fall into the frags GCD paradigm, and flurry, which iirc has a cast time of .6 seconds, would fall into the force pulse GCD paradigm.
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
being a *** isn't going to make anyone respect or listen to you.
being a *** isn't going to make anyone respect or listen to you.
I'd like to see everyone focused on topic. Without misleading information.
@jypcy
I described two different cases with frag (normal and procc'd). Basic model - start new weave combo as soon as possible but after all minimum timers are done. Usually I wait 900ms after pressing skill and block for 50ms, it allows me to start new weaving every 1s no matter how long skill animation is (900ms is enough even for registering LL).
What? Jabs is perfect for LA weaving. Read my post again.You mean, that is why people hate using jabs...?
It is clunky, because its duration is longer than 1 GCD, and therefore weaving even makes it feel clunkier.Channeled or cast time?.Channeled abilities are just the same plus the cast time before the skill fires.Kinda. But there are skills with 1 sec cast time, should be perfect to weaving. Did you even read my post, dude?The clunkiness from cast time abilities does not come from the additional time the animation consumes, rather from the exceeding of the GCD.Incorrect. You have to leave some time for skill animation (grounded need it for sure).Normal skills end their animation within 1 GCD, so you have plenty of time to use a light attack before you can cast again a skill.Bulls**t! You can never cast two abilities faster than 1 sec, with LA in between or not. And 1s casting time just add 100ms, you'll unlikely notice it.So with an instant cast ability, you could have casted 2 abilities and a light attack while others just finished their 1 sec cast time.I'm not against casting time at all, just make sure you inform people truthfully. Btw there is no much difference between 1 sec and 1,4 sec in PvP.I think on some skills cast times are very well needed, because they are strong and make their use situational. An example is dark deal, which in PvP is normally casted, when you get the time to do so via LOSing or taking some distance. Without the channel, this skill would be far too strong and could bee used without any drawbacks in any situations.
From all your statements I foresee that your main is stamplar. Nerf sorcs, buff jabs!
You will need to provide data. A class rep and another posted confirmed differently.
So are you suggesting that “able to LA again” is actually “choose to LA again” for convenience, although in actuality you could LA or cast another skill sooner than that? As @Minno stated, showing data would likely help clear this up.
First off jabs are not easy to weave, when you are accostumated to the GCD and instant cast abilities. But this is a matter of training (if you look at a magplar, you know why most of them prefer elemental weapons over jabs).
True but as I wrote in my very first post, the only actual reason to cancel animation is to queue next skill and do something else (usually run). Anyways next skill fires off after 1 sec.back again to instant cast abilities, which pretty much fire immediately. As you said yourself, you can blockcancel them and actually reduce their animation to a minimum leaving a lot of time to weave until you can cast the next ability.
If cast time represented real delay between input and ability firing off, I wouldn't started this thread. Cast time 1s just means that your input (except block and roll) will be locked in 1 sec.Back to cast times: If you have a cast time of exactly 1 second, you still lose time compared with an instant cast ability, so it is not perfect to weave.
i will even record a video for you to prove different behavior.Lets take jabs again for the example of being able to cast two times for example force pulse meanwhile only one jab.
So you just confirmed, that jabs are clunky to use and that instant cast abilities can be casted, so that you get two abilities out in the same time you are casting one dark flare or jab?
You stated, that dark flare weaving in total needs 1.35 seconds from initiating the following up dark flare to the previous one. In the meantime you could have already casted a second force pulse.
So basically:
0.0s : casting 1. force pulse / Casting 1. dark flare
1.0s : able to cast force pulse again / Still casting dark flare
1.1s : casting 2. froce pulse (delay from weaving and not being perfect in the GCD) / 1. dark flare fires
approx. 1.2s : Animation of force pulse / able to weave or cast again dark flare (GCD already run off the same time as force pulse GCD ran off)
You just provided proof yourself, that in the meantime of a cast time ability it is possible to cast two instant cast skills. The delay through cast time results in less skills casted in the end and less weaving, that is why cast time abilities are not used in PvE for dps. Even tough you can weave them perefectly for sure with training, you lose time compared to instant cast abilities.
Just tested dark flare, jabs and combo crushing shock+So you just confirmed, that jabs are clunky to use and that instant cast abilities can be casted, so that you get two abilities out in the same time you are casting one dark flare or jab?
You stated, that dark flare weaving in total needs 1.35 seconds from initiating the following up dark flare to the previous one. In the meantime you could have already casted a second force pulse.
So basically:
0.0s : casting 1. force pulse / Casting 1. dark flare
1.0s : able to cast force pulse again / Still casting dark flare
1.1s : casting 2. froce pulse (delay from weaving and not being perfect in the GCD) / 1. dark flare fires
approx. 1.2s : Animation of force pulse / able to weave or cast again dark flare (GCD already run off the same time as force pulse GCD ran off)
You just provided proof yourself, that in the meantime of a cast time ability it is possible to cast two instant cast skills. The delay through cast time results in less skills casted in the end and less weaving, that is why cast time abilities are not used in PvE for dps. Even tough you can weave them perefectly for sure with training, you lose time compared to instant cast abilities.
We are getting nowhere, mate. Try to check your statements before posting, please. It doesn't work like this.
0.0s: instant skill
1.0s: instant skill
2.0s: instant skill
....
in the opposite:
0.0s: cast cast time/channeling skill with 1s tooltip. this is where GCD started
1.0s: casting time is over, your input is unblocked
1.1s: skill actually finished and animation can be canceled without problem
1.2s: cast whatever you want again
0.2s more weaving 20k damage skill instead of 10k damage? If you are right and nobody uses cast time abilities in pve, this post should be the proof to reconsider their rotation.
which I think is a fair question and one that Checkmath took the time to answer, I recommend calling that out from the start.0.2s more weaving 20k damage skill instead of 10k damage? If you are right and nobody uses cast time abilities in pve, this post should be the proof to reconsider their rotation.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »I'm noob of course, but it's clear that different abilities (both instant cast and casting time, damaging and buffs, etc) have additional animation time, which can't be cancelled and which is different for each skill and not showed in tooltip. Obviously, all abilities that can be cancelled fast are swarming all builds, and those which can't be reliably cancelled in real time conditions (not dummy) in same "1-sec round", those are considered useless.
It will be fine if something like "speed factor" was showed.. i mean if anyone remember AD&D there was such parameter, which shows how fast skill can be used, though another cast may repeat only after the end of the round, but still allowed weapon attacks in same round if speed factor was small (fast).
NiclasFridholm wrote: »What, Jabs clunky!? Its the easiest channel to LA weave. Damage wise on the other hand...