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Should Argonians and Khajiit use footwear? (In Lore, not in-game).

Aristocles22
Aristocles22
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Obviously, khajiit and argonian PCs should have the option to equip footwear for game balance purposes. As amazing as Morrowind was, the lack of a choice to use certain piece of equipment comes off as a bit dated (the game is getting close to 20 years old!). But we all know there is a difference between lore and gameplay. For example, there's no way that Skyrim in lore has cities with only a couple hundred people in them at most, and there's no way that the entire land of Skyrim has only a handful of farms and a handful of hunters and fishers to supply food. To add to the confusion, the very shape of those two races changes between games, something which is sort of explained with the many different breeds of khajiit, but even that raises some issues. What are the odds that every single khajiit in a game will be of that same breed? There's no one "right" way to render a cat or lizard-person, so this isn't an attempt at pushing one specific design, although I have to admit that the digitgrade over-sized "clown feet" they had in Morrowind was more than a little odd.

ESO seems to try to have it both ways, with argonians and khajiit having sandals or at least open-toed footwear (to make room for their claws, probably), something they often have for the bosmer, along with sandals as part of the standard gear for some redguard and Imperial sets of clothes. As one might expect, most of those sets apply to light, medium, and heavy armors, which are almost by definition meant for soldiers, guards, and adventurers, not the common populace. If anything, this question is more a matter of what the civilians of the argonian and khajiit populations would use, as adventurers need all the protection they can get. Would those races even develop footwear in the first place? Even if they could do it, would they if it didn't give them any advantages in their native lands?

As one might imagine, the kinds of clothing a certain group would develop by itself would be done to match their environment. This is why nords don't use the same clothes as redguards. Most of the playable races in TES are relatively similar, basically being humans or humans with slender frames and/or pointy ears. The beast races throw a huge wrench into that setup. In their case, biological differences between themselves and the humans/elves (notwithstanding that some Khajiit are elf-like in appearance, at least in lore) would also play a role in their clothing choices. For khajiit, their fur would make it harder to use heavy clothes in an already-warm environment, especially if the khajiit in question has fur like a cat species which comes from a cold environment. I don't know how the thickness of their fur is determined (by breed? By family line? Do the moons affect it?), so if anyone knows, feel free to share. As for argonians, they might get cold easily in a country cooler than Black Marsh, Hammerfell, or Elsweyr, but would they even need sandals in Black Marsh?
  • Froil
    Froil
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    I'm sure that lore-wise, there are specially made footwear for the different breed of Khajiit and Argonians, same with their clothing and other such garments. Gotta make room for them tails ;)

    It would also help out with not stepping on a sharp objects strewn about, whether it's in the city, out in the wilderness or with your terrible friend that decided to throw a mini caltrop right where you're going to place your foot, and not getting a bad wound or infection because these things could have disease or contagions.
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  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
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    Leaving aside the argonians' natural resistance to most disease and poison, there is also the matter of whether such sharp objects would be that much of a consideration for those species. In cities, I can see why they might worry about it, but not so much in smaller, less developed villages with fewer sharp, metal items. Or possibly, almost no metal items at all in argonian villages. It is also possible that the argonians' scales and khajiits' foot pads might be able to take sharp objects better, although this isn't reflected in the game mechanics.
  • Kikke
    Kikke
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    Scuse me, but did you just call elfs for humans with pointy ears? I am offended!
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  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
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    kikkehs wrote: »
    Scuse me, but did you just call elfs for humans with pointy ears? I am offended!

    Well, for the purposes of comparative external anatomy, yes. Including their human-like limbs. Or is it humans who have elf-like limbs?
  • HappyLittleTree
    HappyLittleTree
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    I'd love to have the option to have beast like feet and the footwear should be shinguards instead then :)
    Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!

    XBox-EU
  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
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    But we all know there is a difference between lore and gameplay.
    This, and "(In Lore, not in-game)" reveals that you miss the actual concepts of Lore and Gameplay so to speak, to begin with ^^'

    When you fix this, you get the reply for the question, for sure! It's a widespread misunderstanding (thus the "we all know" (*) I guess) so let's clarify this.

    For what peculiar reason would you like that the in-game foot shape of the Argonians to be a gameplay feature? Does it change the DPS cycle, does it impact the current meta, is it relevant for the tactics in front of bosses or in PvP? Obviously not.
    Argonians would have racial bonuses and would have a foot armor slot, regardless of whether they are plantigrade or digitigrade. This has nothing to do with the rules of the game and how the players deal with them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameplay

    I guess the word you're looking for is "the gamedesign". This encompasses genre, aesthetics and artwork, UI, story and wider lore, worldbuilding, and of course gameplay itself.

    Indeed the game is designed with a standard pattern for each race: same humanoid skeleton for standardized animations + same number of stuff items for standardized statistics - even for the beastfolks...
    But this is the result of a design choice. If they'd like digitigrade Argonians and Khajiit, the devs would have simply renamed the "foot" armor slot into a "tail" armor slot or into a "claws" armor slot... Just like most of the cosmetic adornments and hairdresses have specific versions for these two races.
    But they did not! It means something.

    Here we go, what is the meaning of "lore"?
    If we follow your statements, then the lore is a pure idealist and poetic thing, that should not be "soiled" by the (virtual) reality of the actual game... It looks like Manichaeism
    Yet, by thinking that way, you doom yourself to perpetual disappointment... It'll result in a pessimistic game experience.

    Lore should not be that superior and purist thing that is never experienced by the player.

    One should not forget that the lore is that illusory "wider world" and its fictionnal cultures, that emerge from the real/actual/concrete game, in the first place.

    Thus - if we witness actual Khajiit and Argonians who actually wear foot-stuff, like shoes, or bandages, then here are the facts. ^^

    Only in a second stage, I can ask myself where are the limits and perhaps criticize the design choices eventually. I agree with you that sometimes the technical limitations can weaken the immersion.

    For instance one should not forget that the game graphics themselves are an aesthetic representation for us to be able to imagine its wider-world. The devs suggest the regions of Tamriel more than they could actually "map" them precisely.
    So one can admit that there are more farms and more small towns than the ones mapped in the game. It doesn't hurt immersion, since when you're somewhere in the map, the place that you witness does exist!
    But how could this work for the character models?? What kind of sorcery would it be??

    The leeway of the "representation" works solely when the game relies on your imagination to fill in the gaps. So here you go off the facts and you reach the field of "interpretation", of headcanon and fanon - all of this being fed by El Famoso Unreliable Narrator.

    One can not pretend the Argonian feet are not as we see them (in actual game models). It is not a matter of filling gaps with imagination - we are shown them ! :)
    Otherwise it would be admitting that we are in front of placeholders!? Yet - being displayed placeholders? this is far more uncomfortable for the immersion and for the consistency of the lore than anything else!! So I can not follow your reasoning there.
    The Argonians use footwear because they really can, to begin with.
    Let's imagine it is "claws-wear" if you are more comfortable with it. ;)

    (* I guess you got the "obviousness" that you speak of, from such articles like "Gameplay versus Story" https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation but if you consider this Argonian Foot thing, you'll realize this is not a matter of story telling nor proper gameplay, it's merely your own headcanon being harmed by the actual lore in the real game. And I sympathize, as such.)

    Edited by Ajaxandriel on October 29, 2018 2:30PM
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  • Pheefs
    Pheefs
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    But we all know there is a difference between lore and gameplay.
    This, and "(In Lore, not in-game)" reveals that you miss the actual concepts of Lore and Gameplay so to speak, to begin with ^^'
    I think the Lore vs Gameplay the OP is referring to is the fact that even if Kajiit/Argonian/Bosmer don't usually wear shoes at all, most PLAYERS aren't going to give up an armor slot/set bonus to be Lore accurate.
    adventurers need all the protection they can get.
    this! :)
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  • Ajaxandriel
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    Pheefs wrote: »
    But we all know there is a difference between lore and gameplay.
    This, and "(In Lore, not in-game)" reveals that you miss the actual concepts of Lore and Gameplay so to speak, to begin with ^^'
    I think the Lore vs Gameplay the OP is referring to is the fact that even if Kajiit/Argonian/Bosmer don't usually wear shoes at all, most PLAYERS aren't going to give up an armor slot/set bonus to be Lore accurate.
    adventurers need all the protection they can get.
    this! :)
    since they DO wear shoes, there's no issue for the players' consistency X)

    468px-Argonian.jpg

    Are we looking for a roleplay interpretation for the Player-Characters' shoes? The PCs are warriors and adventurers rather than civilians. And if one want to roleplay as a civilian there are quite some costumes that removes the shoes from the avatar ^^

    So indeed, let's say the civilians don't wear anything but the warriors and adventurers do, for obvious reasons.

    2l862e.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator



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    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50

  • Robo_Hobo
    Robo_Hobo
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    The digitigrade bipedal forms of Khajiit would probably have specialized footwear, but I'm not sure about the quadruped forms. They might have some that could be used in specific situations like going into battle, but for every-day purposes, it might be too cumbersome to put it on, they might need assistance from a bipedal form to do so, and it just might not be worth the hassle - they might just grow accustomed to not wearing it for the convenience, and build up a better durability so as to not need them except for battle anyway.

    Just my thoughts though.
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  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
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    Before I begin here, I will remind you that the title is "Should Argonians and Khajiit use footwear?" not "Do Argonians and Khajiit use footwear?" In-game, some obviously do, some obviously don't. This isn't about whether or not they do so much as it is about should they or not from a lore perspective. In-game, they obviously should unless players are okay with losing an equipment slot for them, and few players are in this day and age.

    Regardless of the rather odd claim that I somehow don't get the difference between gameplay and lore, there IS a difference. Leaving aside TV Tropes (which I did not consult or reference in this), there are differences between what a game's history, logic, and background states versus what is actually shown in the game. There are many differences between the two, and there are many reasons for this gap: time, budget, shifting ideas of what the game should be on the part of the devs, and what would be considered acceptable and commercially viable by the devs and the producers above them (the business team, or the "suits", as they are sometimes called.)

    This helps to explain why there was so much lore about a Venice-like Imperial City, a high-tech Summerset, and a network of underground worms throughout Black Marsh which aid in travel (among other things), but why none of them appear in-game. Clearly, there is a gap between the lore and the gameplay. I don't rely on head canon for any of my conclusions here, nor do I reference OOG sources, fan art, wishful thinking, or anything of the sort. I rely on the in-game lore across all games in the series. I might also reference the novels had I read them, but I didn't. I don't rely on youtube videos (not even Shoddycast), and I don't rely on fan theories.

    As we all know, the appearance of the characters, their species, and their clothing differs drastically between games. Part of this is for technical reasons: the graphics of Morrowind and Oblivion aren't up to modern standards, and even the original Skyrim is starting to show its age a bit. All three might have been cutting-edge when they came out, but that was a while back. This means that the appearance of the characters as shown in-game isn't a perfect representation in lore, and that's perfectly fine.

    Some difference between games is inevitable for technical and artistic reasons, even if there was a concerted effort to get them as consistent as possible over the course of years, with different devs, different game engines, and different graphical standards. This is why simply showing someone an in-game representation isn't enough, especially if it conflicts with the lore around it. Some depictions of in-game locations may match the lore more closely than others, or the lore itself may be retconned or dismissed, hence the "transcription errors" and the like. This is also perfectly fine.

    As for the later point, yes, I agree that adventurers need all the protection they can get, even if they wouldn't normally use certain articles of clothing.
    Edited by Aristocles22 on October 30, 2018 12:48AM
  • Bruccius
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    The answer is , at least for Khajiits, yes. Some Khajiit cannot wear boots (witness the Suthay-Raht in Morrowind), but others can. Most appear to be using boots though; I think the non-boot thing is something unique to Suthay-Raht, considering the weird shapes of their feet. Though I suppose other Khajiit could choose to not use boots, if their feet are anything like what real life cats have.

    As for Argonians, maybe something similar? I believe we now have confirmation that there are more breeds of Argonian, with Murkmire? If so, perhaps there is, again, one kind of Argonian which doesn't have the kind of feet for which boots are made.
    Edited by Bruccius on October 30, 2018 10:24PM
  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
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    Again I fail to see the point of the question...
    Should the players put footwear on the foot-slot of their Argonian of Khajiit characters? Of course yes, if they can.
    Of course not if they assume to be weaker, like in any logical...world.
    Should the players hide it instead, with a costume? Of course yes if they want to roleplay as a civilian.
    Regardless of the rather odd claim that I somehow don't get the difference between gameplay and lore, there IS a difference. Leaving aside TV Tropes (which I did not consult or reference in this), there are differences between what a game's history, logic, and background states versus what is actually shown in the game.
    You should read my reply again. Maybe you'll understand the issue eventually.

    If not, then okay, keep these misconceptions and keep that moot and purely speculative vision of "lore" of yours, but nobody will be able to help you because you'll lose yourself in your own fanon. Don't look down on other fanons, they rely on the lore as much as you do, they pretend to know the lore as much as you do, and that's still fanon.

    "so much lore about a Venice-like Imperial City, a high-tech Summerset" ... kidding, aren't you? :p A paragraph here and 3 lines of text there, well, a whole in-universe secondhand knowledge - that is quite not a common definition of "so much lore" dude.

    I can see that you're sensitive to textual lore, and you may have a strong imagination, but one should not forget what is actually shown and what is not.
    The medium of The Elder Scrolls is a video game, not a novel-based fiction.
    It is a visual art, with visual facts.
    The whole textual lore in it is fine, but it's not some kind of "Truth", you know. I mean, you've...played the game, right? then understood the meanings of the events? seen the difference between in-game facts and in-universe folklore? the myths, all that? All the in-universe characters are speculating about their world - yeah, even Vivec (Vivec more than any other one) - This is not a "Bible of written facts" for bigots.

    So maybe, when something isn't shown, it's because it does not exist in the actual universe to begin with. Don't put the car before the horse.

    And also - there is no proof for such a thing like "quadrupedal khajiit" in the current lore :/
    There are senche tigers, that is all we can testify. Everything else in the previous stuff is moot and in-universe folklore.

    I know these things can make the fans like you unhappy, because fans tend to believe strongly things that seems cool when told, but things that are not verifiable in the fictional world... And each time the worldbuilding and the wider gamedesign take an new direction, when the lore development contradict their beliefs, then they get mad, they blame the medium, blame the material, blame the technical limitations...

    Again I'm okay with the concept of placeholder, but you are not allowed to tell what is placeholder and what is not in the concrete graphics of the game, at this point. You are not allowed to explain that something factual is "irrelevant" in the actual lore.
    One will be allowed to say so -only- after the placeholder is converted in a finer representation. So back in the context of TES3 the representation was accurate and fine for the lore, we all agree with that. Now we're in 2018 in the context of ESO, and these TES3 graphics were kind of placeholders, in retrospect.
    Now, the representations in ESO are the finest ones for what is the concrete lore, until further notice.
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  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
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    [Before anyone replies to the below, please note that we're getting off-topic here. This is about the beast races, not about "fanon" or "what is canon" or something of that nature. Please try to stay on-topic. I replied below to address some points made, but I do not wish to continue that line of discussion further in this thread.]

    You are the only one who seems not to understand. More to the point, you are making a number of unfounded assumptions about me, for reasons I will not speculate on here. You also seem fixated on the notion that I think I'm "allowed" to make things up. I have never made such a claim. I don't have my own "fanon", nor do I pretend to. You also seem to have a grudge against me for some strange reason. I'm detecting a lot of hostility here. Calm down, please.

    The mention about a Venice-like Imperial City comes from an in-game source, as do a number of other things which don't appear in-game. Both the source and the appearance of the Imperial City (to give an example), are, taken by themselves, both equally valid, as they appear in-game, sometimes in the same game. This is why the devs have to come up with excuses as to why there isn't a match, such as "transcription error" or "the warp in the west." As I have said previously, there are valid technical, creative, and budgetary reasons in real life which explain the discrepancy. It costs money and takes time to develop assets to be shown in-game, time and money which might be better spent in other areas. I'm not blaming them, just pointing it out. I understand why there are such discrepancies. These games are commercial products made on a deadline with a budget, and the current devs might not think the older ideas are good/feasible/implementable given technical/monetary/time restraints.

    The Elder Scrolls is actually an entire franchise, which is primarily based around video games. It also includes novels, in-game sources, explanations by the current devs on official websites, and probably many other valid, canon, official sources that I am missing here. If you go by "whatever appears visually in a video game is the only valid source", you'd have to count the visual assets and maps from Arena and Daggerfall as still being equally valid today. I look at the totality of canon, valid sources, not just the most recent games, and I consider the age of the first two games as well as the "warp in the west" as a way of explaining why those two games have a limited impact on how the games work today. This is why Riften isn't Rifton, and why the "Imperial Province" is now called Cyrodiil. You can't just hand wave away everything else.

    As for the "lack" of quadrupedal khajiit, there actually is a talking senche-tiger in the AD questline, in "Raise the Curtain". I can double-check the exact quest if you don't believe me. Also, the assertion that the representations in ESO are the "finest" ones is just your opinion. You are entitled to it, but the term "finest" is a subjective. Many people would disagree. The previous three games have their defenders as the "finest" as well, especially Morrowind and Skyrim. Please don't claim that your opinion is a fact.

    Edited by Aristocles22 on October 31, 2018 4:33AM
  • ArchMikem
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    Khajiit Light feet rank 1 and 2 are what I would consider the basic footwear they have. Cloth wrappings. You see quite a few Khajiit wearing them around town in Rawl'kha. For Argonians, I'd think Lore wise, they'd have uncovered feet entirely.

    Think about it, as Humans, what purpose does our clothing serve? It's not to hide our naughty bits, that's just a bonus. The main practical use behind clothing is to protect our bodies from the elements. Our skin isn't very durable, it breaks and tears easily causing injury, infection, death. So we put cotton and leather around it to protect it against the rough terrain we live on. We don't go outside into the woods and rocky hills bare foot because our feet aren't durable enough to handle it. Khajiit however have a layer of fur as well as pads. It may not be the best protection but it's better than what "the shaveskins" have, so the necessity for coverings isn't as dire. As for Argonians? Scales. It's like natural armor. For them clothing is more a cultural thing than a natural necessity.
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  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
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    I will say that there's almost no evidence in-game or in lore that Argonians' scales protect them from much, apart from what the nagas mentioned once in passing, and that could just be something specific to the nagas. They have never had any bonuses based on "natural armor", IIRC. I could also point out that clothing would probably be more important to Argonians in cold regions, although they rarely travel to those... except for Windhelm... which seems to be in a state of perpetual snow coverage... and the Argonians there dress in sandals...

    But oddities like the large Argonian population in Windhelm in ESO aside, it would probably be best for them to cover up more in cold weather. As for other climates, Argonians (at least the civilians, not counting soldiers or most adventurers) might want to go without footwear in order to make full use of their claws for traction if not combat. Not that we have a martial-arts system in ESO, but it isn't unprecedented in TES games.

    As for Khajiit, the cloth wrappings seem to actually be a good move on ZoS' part. A sock or other cloth pulled up would go against the grain of the fur.
  • CyberSkooma
    CyberSkooma
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    First of all, I love this post.

    I think that ZOS's decision of going with the open-toed shoe or wrappings around the feet are probably the best idea, mainly because of claws. However I believe this would probably just be the preference of the individual khajiit, as I don't see the issue with them being able to wear boots(besides the Suthay-Raht). Going barefoot is probably fine for the most part, but the moment you run into battle, do you really want your feet exposed? Probably not. The last thing you want is to step on a sharp object and slice or pierce your foot.
    Edited by CyberSkooma on November 14, 2018 3:55PM
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  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
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    [getting off-topic? this is in-topic since this demonstrates why the topic itself is biased / far-fetched]
    More to the point, you are making a number of unfounded assumptions about me, for reasons I will not speculate on here. You also seem fixated on the notion that I think I'm "allowed" to make things up. I have never made such a claim. I don't have my own "fanon", nor do I pretend to. You also seem to have a grudge against me for some strange reason. I'm detecting a lot of hostility here. Calm down, please.
    Wow you seem to take it a bit too much personal ... It's not against you. Just against some same twisted logic regarding lore, or let's say...a certain purism or idealism regarding lore. Not my fault if you are advocating what I consider such a "twisted logic" then, please don't feel hurt by such a debate about ideas and understandings.

    "The mention about a Venice-like Imperial City comes from an in-game source, as do a number of other things which don't appear in-game."
    - this statement would definitely miss the point of the "levels" or "layers" into the fiction. Some narratology concepts would definitely help you here :)

    I see. You have decided that the whole "expanded universe", the whole "franchise", and the whole in-universe folklore, contain the Truth about the said universe.
    I decided otherwise. That's it.

    "Also, the assertion that the representations in ESO are the "finest" ones is just your opinion. You are entitled to it, but the term "finest" is a subjective. Many people would disagree. The previous three games have their defenders as the "finest" as well, especially Morrowind and Skyrim. Please don't claim that your opinion is a fact."
    - Allright; many fans are wanting to stick to TES3 or 4, it's all OK, but since we are here "assumed" fans of ESO, on ESO forum, then ...sorry, when I state "ESO is the finest-latest lore and visual source" that is a fact, like an axiom, not some subjective stuff I decided because I find ESO funnier or else. I can prefer some forgotten lore from Arena and still admit this fact.
    - Otherwise if one desagrees with this - I don't mind at all - but then he should find another forum to discuss (some reddit stuff and so on, you see).

    "As for the "lack" of quadrupedal khajiit, there actually is a talking senche-tiger in the AD questline, in "Raise the Curtain". I can double-check the exact quest if you don't believe me."
    - You got it: this is what I would definitely consider as a fact to take into account in the debate :)
    - Sadly I did the whole AD questline and I never noticed such a speaking senche-tiger, so on this precise point I'll gladly see your double-check :)
    TESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophone
    Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50
    Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50
    Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50
    Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50
    Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50
    Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50

  • Alkapton
    Alkapton
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    This one only wears lizard skin boots or shoes.
    This one doubts the free range lizard frickasee's in Muckmire would want to wear such excellent footwear.
  • Claudman
    Claudman
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    They were able to (and did) wear footwear in Arena, Daggerfall, Oblivion, Online (Since ESO is canon and thus is able to be mentioned) and Skyrim so...I'd say, yeah. Even in lore.

    Morrowind was literally the only game where the Betmer were designed as digitigrade and wore no shoes (unless you count Redguard and Shadowkey, then those would also be a games where Betmer didn't wear shoes/were digitigrade...But, Dreekius spent most of his time behind a bar). The canonicity around it (especially for Khajiit) is debatable. Also surely the Betmeri races would have alternatives if they hadn't worn shoes...Be it wraps, strapped on plating, et cetera.
    Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.

    I play healers or DPS often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP810+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
    I primarily play Damage-Based stuff in PvP, but occasionally I'll play something tanky or got the heals.
    I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.

    I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.
  • Brittany_Joy
    Brittany_Joy
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    Khajiit specifically have no use for footwear besides a barrier from diseases/parasites and style. An animal's pads are quite durable, surprisingly sturdy, enough to handle objects that would normally puncture human feet. Diseases and parasites are commonly spread through direct skin contact with contaminated soil or material. A khajiit's pads are sturdy enough to get by without them and can even use their free claws to disembowel enemies in combat, lions use their hind paws to claw out their enemy's innards. Lions are also surprisingly sturdy and survive a lot worse than just a scrap or small puncture wound on the paw. So using lions as a reference, khajiit only need shoes to prevent them from contracting diseases/parasites and only rarely need shoes in certain conditions like lava-walking...
  • ghastley
    ghastley
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    I'd imagine any race would use extra layers of protection whenever conditions exceed their normal range of tolerance. While Khajiit and Argonians may have wider ranges before they need supplemental covering, they'll still be needed sometimes. Put a desert creature in the snow, or vice-versa, and it will need help to adapt. Same for wet versus dry. A Khajiit may need waders in the swamps, and an Argonian may want damp socks in the desert.
  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
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    I know this has been a while, but my point about quadrupedal Khajiit being able to speak has been 100% completely proven and redeemed by the Elsweyr expansion.
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    Khajiit specifically have no use for footwear besides a barrier from diseases/parasites and style. An animal's pads are quite durable, surprisingly sturdy, enough to handle objects that would normally puncture human feet. <etcetera>

    Except that those might no longer be the main concern anymore. Animals don't pad around in battlefields or other man-made hazards. By living in "civilization", Khajiit and Argonians are now exposed to a lot more than "natural" hazards.

    For example, there is a (real, IRL) subculture of barefoot walkers. https://www.healthline.com/health/walking-barefoot
    I know a friend who actually does that. He walks around almost everywhere barefoot and for the most part he feels safe. But it can be hazardous in places where there is garbage or other hazards, mostly man-made. Smashed glass, junkie needles, mysterious chemicals...
    Workboots are required in a construction site for good reason.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 20, 2019 5:24PM
  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
    ✭✭
    It might be that Khajiit's and Argonians' feet would still need to toughen up, even with pads and scales. If I had to guess, this would be when they're still young. Not that we've ever seen a young Khajiit or Argonian, unless Argonian eggs count.
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    It might be that Khajiit's and Argonians' feet would still need to toughen up, even with pads and scales. If I had to guess, this would be when they're still young. Not that we've ever seen a young Khajiit or Argonian, unless Argonian eggs count.

    We've never seen a young anything. Offhand I can't remember underaged characters in the game of any race. Unless you count Netches.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 21, 2019 5:57AM
  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
    ✭✭
    Well, I don't think underaged adventurers or soldiers is a good idea. Unless parts of Black Marsh are like The Congo or something, and even then, it would be too controversial. It doesn't help that all of the children in Skyrim had two basic models (one for boys, one for girls) with simple recoloring to tell them apart.

    I seem to recall one "mostly grown" Argonian from Murkmire and some creatures with a mother and her children as the enemies in some boss fights.
    Edited by Aristocles22 on August 21, 2019 6:00AM
  • Cygemai_Hlervu
    Cygemai_Hlervu
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    Has anyone mentioned a Charles Perrault's Khajiit ;)?
    hf2unwpsodbg.jpg
  • DrowElfMorwen
    DrowElfMorwen
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    Khajiit shouldn't need footwear at all, lore wise, as the pads on their feet make shoes negligible.

    And Argonians do indeed wear footwear--at least when wearing armor. Not when going about daily village business. Their feet, too, should render the need to footwear moot. Warriors understandably wear them for better protection.

    Someone brought up tails, and I have to say, the clothing for both races is unimaginative regarding tails--someone should have given serious thought to the question, "How would this race make clothing that would need to accomidate a tail?"

    I love the clothing in ESO for both races... but someone on the lore/design team should have pointed this out.
    3d Artist: https://deviantart.com/drowelfmorwen
    Wheel of Time Fan :: James Cameron's Avatar Fan
  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
    ✭✭
    There are some terrains which would be hard on a cat's paws or a lizard's feet. We don't really have any stats which suggest that Argonians are any harder to injure than the other playable races, but one can see that they might not use footwear when walking on soft dirt, mud, or wading through water. Of course, those last three terrains are basically most of what makes up Black Marsh.

    I can see why Argonian warriors in heavy armor might use footwear, but not so much the mages, and not the thieves. In fact, IIRC, the Argonian member of the thieves guild in Oblivion starts out with shoes, but loses them when he switches into thief gear. And many (most?) of the Argonian mages in Oblivion are also barefoot, as is the priest of Akatosh you can rescue from the Mythic Dawn cult, even after he puts his robes back on and can be found in the Imperial City later.
  • Aristocles22
    Aristocles22
    ✭✭
    On a minor note, would it be odd if there was a part of Elseweyr or Black Marsh where each race has legs and feet like they were depicted as having in TES III: Morrowind? Maybe the Argonians in Thornmarsh are the digitgrade shoeless types.
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