You need to fix kicking people from dungeons

DMuehlhausen

Valrien wrote: »

What's there to fix?

Believe it or not there are still new people playing the game. If they are doing the quests they might want to see the endings. the problem is if everyone leaves the dungeon you can't finish it cause it kicks you. There just isn't any reason to have that happen.

RedRook

Neoealth wrote: »

I've never liked the auto boot thing. It's a pain when you're doing a quest in the dungeon and the npc is going through a long dialog, but the team leave and you get booted before you can even hand it in. Then the quest resets...


So annoying.

They should make it so there is a delay of a minute at least so players can get things done.

Yeah. Or change the quests so they complete when you kill the boss, whether you watch the last cutscene or speak to the NPC or not. Yeah, I know, the story. Resetting it in way we can't control is awful though.

Kikke

Petoften wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

few quick tips and tricks to make your group finder runs abit easier on everyone:

- Keep inventory clean.
- Tell the group if your doing a quest
- Ask questions if there is anything you don't understand
- Reply if someone asks something of you
- remind grp that you still are on a quest
- Tell them if you need to sell anything
- Tell them if you need to bank anything
- Tell them if you need to run on the bathroom
- TELL THE GROUP WHAT GOES ON

Bonus tip: Do you job!

If all these tips and hints are followed, near all pug runs will end good. The main problem comes from people NOT writing ANYTHING in the chat, but expect to be waited on, carried, or just dies by mechanics they have no clue about and they don't read the chat so anyone trying to tell them what to watch out for gets ignored...

That's not bad, but not relevant to the topic. Our group communicated fine, They actually had some right to complain about some delay but no one did and we finished fine. I did tell them I was doing the quest, twice. It 'ended good'.

Then, why the post?

Petoften

kikkehs wrote: »

Then, why the post?

Because as soon as we finished, they disbanded, I deleted items so I could loot the boss and got kicked before I could.

Petoften

"mocap wrote: »

"...those who kicked you...

No one kicked me. The game auto kicked me when the group left the group after we finished.

Petoften

Valrien wrote: »

So...if you weren't kicked what's the point of this thread?

I mean, I totally get that you needed to clear out some space and the group disbanded but the game does give you a ton of time before you're booted out of the instance.

No, the game gave me like 10 seconds before it kicked me from the dungeon, not "a ton" of time.

Valrien

Petoften wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

So...if you weren't kicked what's the point of this thread?

I mean, I totally get that you needed to clear out some space and the group disbanded but the game does give you a ton of time before you're booted out of the instance.

No, the game gave me like 10 seconds before it kicked me from the dungeon, not "a ton" of time.

Enough to grab the loot

Petoften

starkerealm wrote: »

The issue is, your cure is worse than the disease. If the game didn't remove someone from the instance after they left group there would be no way, whatsoever, to deal with an abusive or trolling PUG member.

In fact, back at launch, this is exactly how the game worked. So, when you're like, "no, no, you don't know how it would be," YES I DO, BECAUSE I WAS THERE.

It was a mess. You'd (rarely) get people in group that would actively harass and disrupt the run, "for the lulz." And this was before the groupfinder was a thing, so it would be worse now because you're getting paired with anyone, at random (that's kinda the point.) Best of all, because dungeons are capped at 4 players, you literally cannot replace that group member until they voluntarily leave.

Found a fake tank? Yeah, nope, you're stuck with that guy, your options are to leave and take a 15m penalty, or live with the knowledge that if he gets to a chest or heavy sack first, it's gone, and you can't even bring in a replacement, unless he consents to leave.

Again, this isn't supposition. This is how the game used to work. This is what used to happen.

So, no. Clean your inventory. It's an easy solution to your problem. Don't carry around everything you find. There's no legitimate reason to be carrying more than 100 items into a dungeon with you. If you are, then this problem is, entirely, of your own making.

That's not a very honest post.

1. The suggestions include options that avoid the problem you describe, such as kicking a person from the dungeon *if* they're kicked from the group, instead of just being the least member from the group.

2. You claim I said 'you don't know how it would be', and I never said that.

Behind all that, you made a valid point - that is easily addressed in a solution to this.

swirve

Leaving without penalty should be fixed... kicking without penalty needs to remain.

This would encourage a higher standard of focus in AF as ppl trying to force others to carry them would be less effective.

ghastley

Inventory may not be enough reason for a change, but quest completion is.

I agree that a vote kick needs to remove players, but why that's linked to this is a problem in itself. There's a difference between everyone else leaving the group, and the rest of the group voting to kick, that the game is aware of. When everyone else leaves, you should still be in the group (of one) and able to complete.

Or should instances like these not have quests?

starkerealm

ThumbtackJake wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

I've never liked the auto boot thing. It's a pain when you're doing a quest in the dungeon and the npc is going through a long dialog, but the team leave and you get booted before you can even hand it in. Then the quest resets...


So annoying.

They should make it so there is a delay of a minute at least so players can get things done.

This. I've had this happen several dozen times. For example, the end of Banished Cells 1, when they are doing the binding, it 's a drawn out out scene, and if it disbands as soon as the boss drops, you wont have time to turn it in.

Yeah, that's a legitimate issue, and one that does need to be addressed. The end of Vaults of Madness is another. Actually, Vaults of Madness and Selene's Web could both benefit from a pass, as there's a lot of parts to both those quests that can go seriously screqy if a random is trying to run the quest, and the rest of the party isn't on the same page.

Petoften

ghastley wrote: »

Inventory may not be enough reason for a change, but quest completion is.

I think inventory is, but three needs have been listed - time to loot, time for quests, and time for exploration/chests/etc.

Ackwalan

It would be nice, that once the final boss is dead, the dungeon finder would not kick when the group disbands. There were a few times when the random group I'm with skips some minor boss or didn't find a chest and I would like to go back for them. There is a "progress" tag for dungeon finder that shows "complete" when the final boss is killed, it shouldn't be too difficult to turn off the auto kick when it shows "complete".

geonsocal

the issue here isn't the OP's inventory management issues (which by the way, I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered at some point in the game)...

the issue is getting kicked too quickly after activity completion - the reason it's an issue is because:

a). maybe I want to do a little more exploring on my own

b). maybe we skipped a boss somewhere along the way, and, I'm intent on leaving the dungeon with nothing lurking around in there

c). maybe we din't find all the available dungeon chests (big one for me when I'm there to farm gear)

d). maybe I need to finish the dungeon quest

I'm sure it benefits the game's performance to shut down that "instance" as quickly as possible - but, i don't think an extra 10 minutes after activity completion is that unreasonable amount of time to let us finish doing whatever we want inside the dungeon...

Wildberryjack

It would be nice if we didn't get kicked at all. I want to run back through to loot all the containers and such that we ran past but of course once the last person leaves then it's too bad so sad I'm booted too. Ugh. In other games I play we stay until we leave manually. Why can't it be that way in this game?

RedRook

geonsocal wrote: »

the issue here isn't the OP's inventory management issues (which by the way, I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered at some point in the game)...

the issue is getting kicked too quickly after activity completion - the reason it's an issue is because:

a). maybe I want to do a little more exploring on my own

b). maybe we skipped a boss somewhere along the way, and, I'm intent on leaving the dungeon with nothing lurking around in there

c). maybe we din't find all the available dungeon chests (big one for me when I'm there to farm gear)

d). maybe I need to finish the dungeon quest

I'm sure it benefits the game's performance to shut down that "instance" as quickly as possible - but, i don't think an extra 10 minutes after activity completion is that unreasonable amount of time to let us finish doing whatever we want inside the dungeon...

Careful, man. I'm pretty sure being reasonable like that is against TOS.

That's why most of us don't risk it.

geonsocal

RedRook wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

the issue here isn't the OP's inventory management issues (which by the way, I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered at some point in the game)...

the issue is getting kicked too quickly after activity completion - the reason it's an issue is because:

a). maybe I want to do a little more exploring on my own

b). maybe we skipped a boss somewhere along the way, and, I'm intent on leaving the dungeon with nothing lurking around in there

c). maybe we din't find all the available dungeon chests (big one for me when I'm there to farm gear)

d). maybe I need to finish the dungeon quest

I'm sure it benefits the game's performance to shut down that "instance" as quickly as possible - but, i don't think an extra 10 minutes after activity completion is that unreasonable amount of time to let us finish doing whatever we want inside the dungeon...

Careful, man. I'm pretty sure being reasonable like that is against TOS.

That's why most of us don't risk it.

it's funny, when I'm farming a dungeon as soon as we finish the final boss - if we missed one of the three chests I start racing like crazy through the dungeon to find it before everyone else bugs out...

thankfully there's usually less than a dozen different spawn locations - if you're familiar with dungeon...

farming gear is serious busyness

starkerealm

DjinnRa wrote: »

It would be nice if we didn't get kicked at all. I want to run back through to loot all the containers and such that we ran past but of course once the last person leaves then it's too bad so sad I'm booted too. Ugh. In other games I play we stay until we leave manually. Why can't it be that way in this game?

Because it would, can, and has been abused.

geonsocal wrote: »

the issue here isn't the OP's inventory management issues (which by the way, I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered at some point in the game)...

the issue is getting kicked too quickly after activity completion - the reason it's an issue is because:

a). maybe I want to do a little more exploring on my own

b). maybe we skipped a boss somewhere along the way, and, I'm intent on leaving the dungeon with nothing lurking around in there

c). maybe we din't find all the available dungeon chests (big one for me when I'm there to farm gear)

d). maybe I need to finish the dungeon quest

I'm sure it benefits the game's performance to shut down that "instance" as quickly as possible - but, i don't think an extra 10 minutes after activity completion is that unreasonable amount of time to let us finish doing whatever we want inside the dungeon...

The problem here is, you're thinking about this as, "I want." You have a problem, and you want a solution. That's fine. Really, that's fine.

What you're not doing is then asking, "how could someone abuse my solution?"

Simply removing the eject function isn't the answer, and I'm inclined to say, flat changes to that in general are a bad idea, simply because it could disrupt the normal kick mechanics, which would make dungeon running miserable.

General life advice here: when you're trying to solve an immediate problem, always take a moment to consider what the potential secondary consequences will be, when evaluating your options.

Wildberryjack

starkerealm wrote: »

DjinnRa wrote: »

It would be nice if we didn't get kicked at all. I want to run back through to loot all the containers and such that we ran past but of course once the last person leaves then it's too bad so sad I'm booted too. Ugh. In other games I play we stay until we leave manually. Why can't it be that way in this game?

Because it would, can, and has been abused.

How so? I can't see any way to "abuse" this. What can you possibly do in there by yourself other than run around looting crates and whanot? There is nothing else in there and no one else.

Teeba_Shei

You can't disband the entire group when you use dungeon finder. The only thing you can do is leave the group. Also you have about 30 seconds once everyone leaves before you get booted.

Psyonico

Synapsis123 wrote: »

You can't disband the entire group when you use dungeon finder. The only thing you can do is leave the group. Also you have about 30 seconds once everyone leaves before you get booted.

The crown can disband, I've seen it happen

SirAndy

For what it's worth, if you solo the dungeon you have all the time in the world to explore after killing the last boss.

No kick timer what-so-ever ...

Minyassa

Totally agree. I have had the quest issue in past despite telling group I was doing the quest. People just don't give a damn. I really wish they'd just let us be when we finish a dungeon. There are dungeons I never even *saw* while completing them until I finally found a guild with some members that like to take things slow. All the Rushy McRushertons are the majority and if you like to actually look at things that were put into dungeons to be interesting-looking, you have no chance with a PUG, that's just the way it is. If they'd let us stay in after the dungeon is finished, the Rushies could run off to do their next thing and the sight-seers could go back and look at stuff, and oh, I don't know, actually loot the lootables and read the lorebooks too. I feel bad for any of the devs who put work into dungeon decoration, there are so few of us who take the time to appreciate it, but we have little choice if we are with people who are in a hurry.

geonsocal

starkerealm wrote: »

DjinnRa wrote: »

It would be nice if we didn't get kicked at all. I want to run back through to loot all the containers and such that we ran past but of course once the last person leaves then it's too bad so sad I'm booted too. Ugh. In other games I play we stay until we leave manually. Why can't it be that way in this game?

Because it would, can, and has been abused.

geonsocal wrote: »

the issue here isn't the OP's inventory management issues (which by the way, I'm pretty sure most of us have encountered at some point in the game)...

the issue is getting kicked too quickly after activity completion - the reason it's an issue is because:

a). maybe I want to do a little more exploring on my own

b). maybe we skipped a boss somewhere along the way, and, I'm intent on leaving the dungeon with nothing lurking around in there

c). maybe we din't find all the available dungeon chests (big one for me when I'm there to farm gear)

d). maybe I need to finish the dungeon quest

I'm sure it benefits the game's performance to shut down that "instance" as quickly as possible - but, i don't think an extra 10 minutes after activity completion is that unreasonable amount of time to let us finish doing whatever we want inside the dungeon...

The problem here is, you're thinking about this as, "I want." You have a problem, and you want a solution. That's fine. Really, that's fine.

What you're not doing is then asking, "how could someone abuse my solution?"

Simply removing the eject function isn't the answer, and I'm inclined to say, flat changes to that in general are a bad idea, simply because it could disrupt the normal kick mechanics, which would make dungeon running miserable.

General life advice here: when you're trying to solve an immediate problem, always take a moment to consider what the potential secondary consequences will be, when evaluating your options.

i'm not sure i'm following you on this one...abuse the system - how?

you mean like having some homeless eso player living in a cardboard crate inside direfrost keep peeing, pooping and leaving sweetroll wrappers everywhere...

Edit: i do though agree with the premise that should zos try implementing any changes to the current system - there's a very good chance they'll *** something else up...

Swifigames

It doesn't only screw people out of loot. It screws a lot of players over who are questing and waiting for their skill point. Dungeon's are in need of some type of safe mechanic that would prevent that from happening, allow players to get all their loot, finish their quest and get their skill point.
I've been in a hurry before running through a dungeon for my random normal, I'm sure I've been guilty of leaving group too quickly myself. How can we still allow the dungeon to be quick for those who want quick and safe for those who are doing the quest?

bottleofsyrup

Learn to manage your inventory?

geonsocal

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Learn to manage your inventory?

we've already established the OP's inventory management is not the central issue here...

this issue isn't just solely about the OP and their story - however, early in the game I myself most definitely had some issues with running out of space while running dungeons...

we'd like/prefer/want the opportunity for some extra time within the dungeon - for a variety of reasons...

as an occasional gear farmer, I don't want to miss any bosses or chests...

others may want additional time for questing and exploring...

currently once the rest of your group leaves for further tamriel adventures you have about 20 seconds or so before you're removed from the area...

the two primary questions are:
a. how difficult would it be to code in an extra 10 minute stay for each player...

b. what possible less than favorable outcome (player abuse, game performance) could arise as a result of allowing each player an extra segment of time...

johnbonne

I think what's meant by exploiting the non-removal of players is that someone pulls a load of trash packs to the party if they're kicked from the group (but not out of the dungeon itself), which WoW has solved where - if you're not automatically removed due to a glitch - it removes you because you're not part of that group anymore within 60 seconds. Sure, they can still pull mobs and cause a wipe during the run, but once they die (and they will), that player will respawn but not see the other players. It's a very short term convenience from a bitter player, so removing them was worth it in the first place.

However, I don't see how this can be exploited at the end of a dungeon at all. If seeing the story and reading quest text is exploiting, limit the story only to Delves and Public Dungeons. I say the same of WoW's Looking for Raid (LFR) mode; if people want to see the raid I believe they should be skilled enough to do so, and if they're only there for the story stop raids being the homes of central antagonists like vanilla (there was technically no "main" villain of classic WoW, only the "current" one).

I'm open to being told the faults of my ideas and how this can be abused, but I believe any long term suggestions made here have very short term negative consequences.

starkerealm

geonsocal wrote: »

i'm not sure i'm following you on this one...abuse the system - how?

you mean like having some homeless eso player living in a cardboard crate inside direfrost keep peeing, pooping and leaving sweetroll wrappers everywhere...

Edit: i do though agree with the premise that should zos try implementing any changes to the current system - there's a very good chance they'll *** something else up...

There's a couple ways, some I'm slightly more hesitant to detail on the boards, because they can be abused regardless.

The short version is, I can think of a few situations where a player with a taunt, OR with chains, can forcibly reset certain encounters. Preventing progress for the group. There's also a few situations like, Vet Direfrost (since you brought it up), where a player can actively sabotage the group, regardless of if they're a member or not.

I'm also aware of cases back before the kick from instance was implemented where, yes, a group would kick someone from their group, but the offending player wouldn't leave the instance, and would gobble up chests, skipping around past the enemies through various means. There's even a YouTube video complaining about it from back in 2014.

So, the very short version of this is that, yes, there is a reason for this system to exist. It was added specifically to address abuse by members of the player base.

Now, I'd like it if the system was changed so that the last player in an instance wasn't kicked when the group fully disbanded. With priority going to whoever didn't leave group, but, like I said, I'd be a little worried that system would break.

The best solution is to talk in group chat, or find guildies to run your content with. I know that's not a perfect solution, but, the latter is far more enjoyable than randos in the groupfinder. Of course, that does require socializing with other humans, but, at the same time, this is a social activity.

starkerealm

Swifigames wrote: »

It doesn't only screw people out of loot. It screws a lot of players over who are questing and waiting for their skill point. Dungeon's are in need of some type of safe mechanic that would prevent that from happening, allow players to get all their loot, finish their quest and get their skill point.
I've been in a hurry before running through a dungeon for my random normal, I'm sure I've been guilty of leaving group too quickly myself. How can we still allow the dungeon to be quick for those who want quick and safe for those who are doing the quest?

I make a point of not abandoning group if the theater scenes are playing, or people are behaving like they're in the quest, but, I'm also pretty good about talking to my groupmates, when they'll talk. So... *shrugs*