Which is better: higher physical/spell resistance & a lower shield or higher health & the opposite?

daemondamian

I've been playing around with shields & resistances with my main magicka pet sorcerer.

With a heavy Maw Helm & Valkyn Skoria Arm Cops my spell resistance is at 18772, my physical resistance is at 13570, my health is at 29290 & I get a hardened ward shield of 14645

With a light Lord Warden head & Mighty Chudan Arm Cops (as I don't have the opposite of either to complete either set) my spell resistance is at 23519, my physical resistance is 17954, my health at 26718 & I get a hardened ward shield of 13359.

According to the patch notes: Your Spell and Physical Resistance now reduces incoming damage before it is applied to your damage shield.

So which is better (as they currently are with the first combo giving more health) in terms of shield strength, durability and potential duration?

Would they be equal if I had the same amount of health for both combos or would the Lord Warden/Mighty Chudan combo be better because
of the extra resistances or only if the Lord Warden was a heavy helm too?

Finally does casting Boundless Storm before casting Hardened Ward also make it better because you get the 5280 resistances of Major Ward & Major Resolve?
I don't think I had it activated when I noted the resistances for either armor combo.

Jurand80

It's a crafter class now. Just drop it.

SirAndy

Depends on your goal, mine is solo PvE going for DPS:

I've been playing with some more aggressive settings for my mag Pet Sorc because i'm trying to retain high spell damage and high(ish) critical.

5 x light armor + 2 x heavy monster

My (buffed) stats:
Magicka: ~40k
Health: ~18k
Stamina: ~10k
Spell damage: ~4k+ (with procs active)
Crit: ~65%

That gives me a hardened ward of around ~9k with base ~14k spell resistance and ~12k physical resistance.
I have Boundless Storm in my rotation so add that to my base resistances.

It seems playable from what i can tell, but i only had time to solo two vet dungeons last night and it was harder than before Nerfmire, but still doable.

Sets are:
5 x Netch's Touch
5 x Spider Cultist
2 x Infernal Guardian

I use heavy attacks for sustain and the Clannfear for a 10k burst heal. I have to recast shields a *lot* which is why i'm running Infernal Guardian for the monster set, it procs on shield casts and does decent damage, i actually like the fact that the mortars target the furthest enemies, makes dealing with Adds a lot easier. (And all 3 mortars will go for the boss if there are no Adds)

My CP is basically all into buffing my AOE, critical, regen and heavy attacks plus some into basic resistances.

Anyways, hope that gives you some more ideas, it's a niche build and as such probably not very useful to many since i came up with it to fit my preferred play-style and most people these days seem to want to adjust their play-style to fit some BiS setup instead.

weg0

It doesn’t matter when you apply the major buffs as long as they are up before the damage hits. You could use Mighty Chudan though, then you can drop boundless altogether.

NyxWrench

I would compare them based on total effective health while the shield is up, vs the raw unmitigated damage of the attack. This is based on my current understanding of the math.

---

Heavy Maw + Valkyn Skoria:

Health: 29290
Shield: 14645

Spell Res: 18772
Physical Res: 13570

Effective health vs spells: 61,398
Effective health vs physical: 55,306
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 20,466
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 18,435


Add 5280 from Boundless:

Spell Res: 24052
Physical Res: 18850

Effective health vs spells: 69,126
Effective health vs physical: 61,499
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 23,042
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 20,499

---

Mighty Chuudan + Lord Warden:

Health: 26718
Shield: 13359

Spell Res: 23519
Physical Res: 17954

Effective health vs spells: 62,265
Effective health vs physical: 55,053
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 20,755
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 18,351

Add 5280 from Boundless:

Spell Res: 28799
Physical Res: 23234

Effective health vs spells: 71,102
Effective health vs physical: 61,850
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 23,700
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 20,616

---

Evaluation:

If you look only at the shields, they're basically identical.

If you factor in base health as well, then on the physical side they're basically identical, but on the spell side the Mighty Chuudan + Lord Warden is a bit better.

If you completed the Mighty Chuudan set, you'd lose some effectiveness compared to Chuudan+Warden, but you'd free up a skill slot and improve magicka efficiency since you wouldn't have to cast Boundless Storm, which means casting the shield is less of a magicka penalty. It's probably worth it.

Overall, I'd probably choose the Chuudan+Warden set, with the plan to eventually make it full Chuudan.

DoobZ69

Jurand80 wrote: »

It's a crafter class now. Just drop it.

Jeremy

daemondamian wrote: »

I've been playing around with shields & resistances with my main magicka pet sorcerer.

With a heavy Maw Helm & Valkyn Skoria Arm Cops my spell resistance is at 18772, my physical resistance is at 13570, my health is at 29290 & I get a hardened ward shield of 14645

With a light Lord Warden head & Mighty Chudan Arm Cops (as I don't have the opposite of either to complete either set) my spell resistance is at 23519, my physical resistance is 17954, my health at 26718 & I get a hardened ward shield of 13359.

According to the patch notes: Your Spell and Physical Resistance now reduces incoming damage before it is applied to your damage shield.

So which is better (as they currently are with the first combo giving more health) in terms of shield strength, durability and potential duration?

Would they be equal if I had the same amount of health for both combos or would the Lord Warden/Mighty Chudan combo be better because
of the extra resistances or only if the Lord Warden was a heavy helm too?

Finally does casting Boundless Storm before casting Hardened Ward also make it better because you get the 5280 resistances of Major Ward & Major Resolve?
I don't think I had it activated when I noted the resistances for either armor combo.

I personally prefer higher resistances to health for PvE (the opposite for PvP) though ideally a healthy combination of both is probably best.

If you are having trouble staying alive with your mage, you might want to consider earth gore. I know that may sound counter intuitive for a non-healer, but it's very handy for saving your ass.

daemondamian

SirAndy wrote: »

Depends on your goal, mine is solo PvE going for DPS:

I've been playing with some more aggressive settings for my mag Pet Sorc because i'm trying to retain high spell damage and high(ish) critical.

5 x light armor + 2 x heavy monster

My (buffed) stats:
Magicka: ~40k
Health: ~18k
Stamina: ~10k
Spell damage: ~4k+ (with procs active)
Crit: ~65%

That gives me a hardened ward of around ~9k with base ~14k spell resistance and ~12k physical resistance.
I have Boundless Storm in my rotation so add that to my base resistances.

It seems playable from what i can tell, but i only had time to solo two vet dungeons last night and it was harder than before Nerfmire, but still doable.

Sets are:
5 x Netch's Touch
5 x Spider Cultist
2 x Infernal Guardian

I use heavy attacks for sustain and the Clannfear for a 10k burst heal. I have to recast shields a *lot* which is why i'm running Infernal Guardian for the monster set, it procs on shield casts and does decent damage, i actually like the fact that the mortars target the furthest enemies, makes dealing with Adds a lot easier. (And all 3 mortars will go for the boss if there are no Adds)

My CP is basically all into buffing my AOE, critical, regen and heavy attacks plus some into basic resistances.

Anyways, hope that gives you some more ideas, it's a niche build and as such probably not very useful to many since i came up with it to fit my preferred play-style and most people these days seem to want to adjust their play-style to fit some BiS setup instead.

SirAndy
thank you for your suggestions

I'm not really interested in trials (aside from the Sanctum Ophidia only because I did that Craglorn pve quest line and it feels incomplete) or doing difficult vet dungeons or pvp (except I want AP to unlock Legate Black, buy monster set pieces I want from the Golden Vendor & style motifs I need for writs from the war researcher).

Before Nerfmire my Pet Sorc was able to solo normal V1 FG, DSC, WS, CoH, CoA, VF, and normal MSA as well as dolmens, geysers and public dungeons and I did group vet dungeons.

Afterwards I tried doing WS again (because I'm farming Toothrow for my stamward alt char) and couldn't get past the second boss (with ghost adds).

I did a reskill and barely managed to get through but it was hard.

After reading your post I did another reskill including swapping my volatile familiar for the Clannfear so now I have

Inferno staff bar: Empowered Ward, Shattering Prison, Degeneration, Daedric Prey, Clannfear
and
Lightening staff bar: Boundless Storm, Critical Surge, Elemental Blockade, Liquid Lightning, Clannfear

My buffed stats are with a Magicka enchant monster set like Grothdarr

Magicka: 51070

Health: 18430

Stamina: 10696

Spell Damage: 2005

Crit: 61.4%

My EW is only now 7372 40%, 15832 spell resistance and 12435 physical resistance.

I switched to Mother's Sorrow (other set being Necropotence) and adjusted my CP to have more critical damage and critical healing too (currently 21%) . Blood Magic from Dark Magic adds in some heals and the Minor Prophecy from the passive Exploitation helps also. The Clannfear is great too for the occasional emergency heal and taking some aggro.

I'd like more spell damage, maybe Netches touch & Spider cultist would help with that though I guess currently the extra 10k magicka does compensate with increased damage from my Clannfear maybe?

If I were in a group with a decent healer I could use a Weakness to Element morph instead of Degeneration which might increase my spell damage.

I tried out Infernal Guardian (it's proc is awesome though I have to be careful as it can use up a lot of magicka) and it's great for all but the WS boss with the ghost ads where I swap to the Mighty Chudan & Lord Warden and WS rat boss & trash mobs where I use Grothdarr or Iceheart. I sometimes use Maw or Valkyn in other dungeons too or MC/LW for the higher resistances.

Not only can I get through WS but it's much quicker and combat elsewhere is quicker too.

I never used to always stand in the red but HW used to allow me to take a beating from many boss attacks and from mobs - cast aoes, buffs and reapply HW etc.

It doesn't now, I have to move around a lot more & don't use can't spam element pulse/ring which gave me higher dps.

I actually use EW less unless I'm using Infernal Guardian.

I'm not game to try soling any vet dungeons yet - I think I might be able to but aside from getting better quality items/rewards I'm not sure that I want or need to push myself that hard lol.

I hated the day Nerfmire dropped and thought I wouldn't enjoy playing my Pet Sorc (or ESO) again but now I am and I'd dare to say my build is more fun now.

daemondamian

weg0 wrote: »

It doesn’t matter when you apply the major buffs as long as they are up before the damage hits. You could use Mighty Chudan though, then you can drop boundless altogether.

MC cancels out the resistances from BS as Major Resolve/ward doesn't stack right? I actually thought of getting MC a long time ago to drop BS from my bar but Mazzatun is supposedly one of the hardest dungeons and now my dps isn't as high either so I'm not sure if I can get it unless I get a really good strong group that doesn't mind my dps is not being super high.

daemondamian

NyxWrench wrote: »

I would compare them based on total effective health while the shield is up, vs the raw unmitigated damage of the attack. This is based on my current understanding of the math.

---

Heavy Maw + Valkyn Skoria:

Health: 29290
Shield: 14645

Spell Res: 18772
Physical Res: 13570

Effective health vs spells: 61,398
Effective health vs physical: 55,306
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 20,466
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 18,435


Add 5280 from Boundless:

Spell Res: 24052
Physical Res: 18850

Effective health vs spells: 69,126
Effective health vs physical: 61,499
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 23,042
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 20,499

---

Mighty Chuudan + Lord Warden:

Health: 26718
Shield: 13359

Spell Res: 23519
Physical Res: 17954

Effective health vs spells: 62,265
Effective health vs physical: 55,053
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 20,755
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 18,351

Add 5280 from Boundless:

Spell Res: 28799
Physical Res: 23234

Effective health vs spells: 71,102
Effective health vs physical: 61,850
Effective health vs spells (shield only): 23,700
Effective health vs physical (shield only): 20,616

---

Evaluation:

If you look only at the shields, they're basically identical.

If you factor in base health as well, then on the physical side they're basically identical, but on the spell side the Mighty Chuudan + Lord Warden is a bit better.

If you completed the Mighty Chuudan set, you'd lose some effectiveness compared to Chuudan+Warden, but you'd free up a skill slot and improve magicka efficiency since you wouldn't have to cast Boundless Storm, which means casting the shield is less of a magicka penalty. It's probably worth it.

Overall, I'd probably choose the Chuudan+Warden set, with the plan to eventually make it full Chuudan.

With my swap to mother's sorrow (I was trying out rattlecage) and lesser health enchants and switch to EW for the extra magicka regen my shield alone is now only 7372 40% and my resistances from the MC/LW combo are spell 20579 and physical 16819

In some instances I might even be better off using Elusive Mist though then I can't heal or use abilities and my pet loses shielding though maybe that doesn't matter as much now.

Swapping to the MC/LW combo has helped for some bosses (when soloing) that I can't avoid taking a beating from (Ilambris twin) or their special attacks - like the WS boss with the ghost adds.

Wouldn't I have more resistance/protection keeping that combo along with BS (or going all Lord Warden) rather than going all MC and dropping BS? The softcap is 33K each isn't?

daemondamian

Jeremy wrote: »

I personally prefer higher resistances to health for PvE (the opposite for PvP) though ideally a healthy combination of both is probably best.

If you are having trouble staying alive with your mage, you might want to consider earth gore. I know that may sound counter intuitive for a non-healer, but it's very handy for saving your ass.

Now that my EW is really low the higher resistances from the MC/LW combo definitely makes a difference in some (solo) boss fights.

I would have given Earthgore a try if I had it (I did try the Bogdan Nightflame set but it didn't proc hardly at all) but my reskill is helping out with healing more now.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Why anyone would use the clanfear over the scamp as a DPS is beyond me. You will die less using the scamp because things will be dead faster. Simple. Using power surge, again, I am not sure why you need a ward at all in pve. It is really crazy seeing a dps care at all about resistance.

daemondamian

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

It's a crafter class now. Just drop it.

I can still do the content I did beforehand & also did normal SC too, plus I usually always use magic in a game if I can, started ESO and have done most quests, exploration and achievements with my pet sorc.

Yes my dps isn't as high as it was, I'm not top tier BiS and maybe I can't do trials but I disagree that the class is only useful now for crafting and I'm not dropping it.

ccfeeling

Jurand80 wrote: »

It's a crafter class now. Just drop it.

daemondamian

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why anyone would use the clanfear over the scamp as a DPS is beyond me. You will die less using the scamp because things will be dead faster. Simple. Using power surge, again, I am not sure why you need a ward at all in pve. It is really crazy seeing a dps care at all about resistance.

Well I was using the scamp but I get a heal out of the clannfear. Maybe you personally don't need a ward or high resistance for any pve but for soloing *some* (group not public) dungeon bosses I find it essential as a pet sorc in light armor.

If I'm in a group in a dungeon with a proper healer then I will use a more dps oriented monster set like grothdarr, valykn or ilambris.

ccfeeling - it ain't going to happen. I'm not going to drop my pet sorc for some other best class dps meta just so I can be top tier BiS dps for trials, vet dungeons and pvp.

Illuvatarr

Had 29k resists in a duel yesterday with a stamplar. He cut through my health like butter.....

phileunderx2

I primarily use my pet sorcs to solo normal dungeons. I have made a few changes and since Murkmire I am still able to solo the same content as before.
I fully leveled the psjic Skil line and have time stop ulti on one bar and the skill race against time on the other so I get the shield on block passive. I use bound armor on one bar and boundless storm on the other to boost resistance.

My sets are Thunderbug jewelry and weapons Mothers Sorrow body and 2 heavy grothdar. Apprentice mundus. My character is a Dunmer vampire. My pet will be either the scamp or the twilight. Depending on which dungeon. Im doing.
I have about 2500 spell damage and 44% crit. It's a weird build but it's working.
Soloed Salenes and FG today no problem.

Alpheu5

daemondamian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why anyone would use the clanfear over the scamp as a DPS is beyond me. You will die less using the scamp because things will be dead faster. Simple. Using power surge, again, I am not sure why you need a ward at all in pve. It is really crazy seeing a dps care at all about resistance.

Well I was using the scamp but I get a heal out of the clannfear. Maybe you personally don't need a ward or high resistance for any pve but for soloing *some* (group not public) dungeon bosses I find it essential as a pet sorc in light armor.

If I'm in a group in a dungeon with a proper healer then I will use a more dps oriented monster set like grothdarr, valykn or ilambris.

ccfeeling - it ain't going to happen. I'm not going to drop my pet sorc for some other best class dps meta just so I can be top tier BiS dps for trials, vet dungeons and pvp.

In PvE, DPS health pools are too low for the Clannfear heal to be superior to the Twilight assuming you have ~40k mag and ~2.5k spell power. Depending on your CP, the turning point where the Clannfear starts to come out ahead is somewhere around 24k HP if I remember correctly.

If you're talking strictly PvE, I recommend slotting the Scamp for most group PvE content (assuming your healer isn't trash), and using the Twilight if you want to trust yourself to do your own healing. Plus it benefits the group and costs less to cast.

NyxWrench

daemondamian wrote: »

With my swap to mother's sorrow (I was trying out rattlecage) and lesser health enchants and switch to EW for the extra magicka regen my shield alone is now only 7372 40% and my resistances from the MC/LW combo are spell 20579 and physical 16819

Yeah, I tried out Rattlecage for a bit as well, but it ended up being useless. Since I need Power Surge for healing, the Major Sorcery the armor provides ends up just being redundant.

Like you, I do a lot of the dungeon runs solo, but since I don't use pets I have to adjust how I answer stuff. Notably, I've long since given up on using shields (even before Murkmire), instead focusing more heavily on defense and health and healing.

daemondamian wrote: »

Swapping to the MC/LW combo has helped for some bosses (when soloing) that I can't avoid taking a beating from (Ilambris twin) or their special attacks - like the WS boss with the ghost adds.

Wouldn't I have more resistance/protection keeping that combo along with BS (or going all Lord Warden) rather than going all MC and dropping BS? The softcap is 33K each isn't?

The cap for resistance is indeed 33k (or maybe 33.6k). Should be a hard cap, rather than a soft cap.

MC+LW = 5,950 (using gold numbers since they're easily accessible)
LW+LW = 2,975 base, 6,845 with latent
MC+MC = 8,255, freed up skill slot
MC+LW+BS = 11,230
LW+LW+BS = 8,255 base, 12,125 with latent

So MC+LW+BS takes 4.5% less damage and does maybe 5% more damage to the enemies than MC+MC, in exchange for whatever else you could put in that skill slot.

I've been doing my own rethinking of using Boundless Storm, and finding there really aren't many good alternatives for it. It's a buff/AOE DOT that lasts 20 seconds, so has a relatively low magicka cost per unit time for the benefits it provides.

Unless you desperately need to fit in an offense skill (eg: Endless Fury) or a recovery skill (eg: Dark Conversion, Meditation), there's no solid motivation to remove it. Certainly not for a solo player; group players have more options available. I've tried doing without, and it just hasn't worked for me.

As such, I'll backtrack on the earlier suggestion. Keep the MC+LW+BS setup. Full LW is a small bit better when the latent is active, but not enough that I think it's worth the hassle, and the extra skill slot probably isn't going to gain enough value to be worth dropping the extra 3k resistance.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Alpheu5 wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why anyone would use the clanfear over the scamp as a DPS is beyond me. You will die less using the scamp because things will be dead faster. Simple. Using power surge, again, I am not sure why you need a ward at all in pve. It is really crazy seeing a dps care at all about resistance.

Well I was using the scamp but I get a heal out of the clannfear. Maybe you personally don't need a ward or high resistance for any pve but for soloing *some* (group not public) dungeon bosses I find it essential as a pet sorc in light armor.

If I'm in a group in a dungeon with a proper healer then I will use a more dps oriented monster set like grothdarr, valykn or ilambris.

ccfeeling - it ain't going to happen. I'm not going to drop my pet sorc for some other best class dps meta just so I can be top tier BiS dps for trials, vet dungeons and pvp.

In PvE, DPS health pools are too low for the Clannfear heal to be superior to the Twilight assuming you have ~40k mag and ~2.5k spell power. Depending on your CP, the turning point where the Clannfear starts to come out ahead is somewhere around 24k HP if I remember correctly.

If you're talking strictly PvE, I recommend slotting the Scamp for most group PvE content (assuming your healer isn't trash), and using the Twilight if you want to trust yourself to do your own healing. Plus it benefits the group and costs less to cast.

It is crazy to think that the op doesn't see this. My magsorc is easy mode and I have never looked at resistance on him at all.

I run both pets with maw/necro/mad tinkerer, MT gets me like 4% of my DPS, hit for like 20k with deadric prey and a free AOE stun. May bars look like this-

Front bar infused lightning staff if mad tinkerer, fire enchantment

Inner light- scamp- matriarch- deadric prey- crystal frags- ulti destro ulti

Back bar infused lightning vma staff, lightning enchant.

Power surge- scamp- matriarch- lightning flood- unstable blockade, ulti atro


If I think I need more survivability, I slot empowered Ward in deadric preys slot. This has been my farming toon for vma and I can complete all content I have tried, though I don't care to try to solo 4 man dungeons, I don't see the point, if you are farming the dungeon, it is always better to have a full team and finding people to run any dungeon is easy, even with my odd hours, mostly early morning.

The best way to survive in this game is to kill things before they can hurt you. Looking for resistance on a dps will lower your DPS, this will lead to longer fights and more opportunities to die. Use the scamp.

Lord_Wrath

I have to agree with @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO, but never using a ward? Ive never used a pet build but im genuinely curious because there are lots of mechanics in the game where you just will take heavy damage. You say you slot ward if you think you need more survivability. Do you always rely on healers and self heals or do you have specific stops where you slot ward before the next battle? Ive always ran ward since launch I guess so I never considered going without.


I do believe these health/resistance factors are better for pvp builds.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

I have to agree with @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO, but never using a ward? Ive never used a pet build but im genuinely curious because there are lots of mechanics in the game where you just will take heavy damage. You say you slot ward if you think you need more survivability. Do you always rely on healers and self heals or do you have specific stops where you slot ward before the next battle? Ive always ran ward since launch I guess so I never considered going without.


I do believe these health/resistance factors are better for pvp builds.

Yes, I never really slot a ward in four man stuff, only in vMA, never really sloted any ward on any of of mag toons, rely on healers is a bit strong though, I have power surge going, that is like 3k hps and then if I need a burst, the matriarch is there and doing 3k DPS as well. Even before pets were invulnerable in dungeons, my pets hardly ever died, if you read the forums though, you would get the impression that they were made of paper. Only things I really need a healer for are orbs/shards, major courage and combat prayer.

daemondamian

phileunderx2 wrote: »

I primarily use my pet sorcs to solo normal dungeons. I have made a few changes and since Murkmire I am still able to solo the same content as before.
I fully leveled the psjic Skil line and have time stop ulti on one bar and the skill race against time on the other so I get the shield on block passive. I use bound armor on one bar and boundless storm on the other to boost resistance.

My sets are Thunderbug jewelry and weapons Mothers Sorrow body and 2 heavy grothdar. Apprentice mundus. My character is a Dunmer vampire. My pet will be either the scamp or the twilight. Depending on which dungeon. Im doing.
I have about 2500 spell damage and 44% crit. It's a weird build but it's working.
Soloed Salenes and FG today no problem.

I have tried Selenes before but got stuck on the last boss with the adds. I think there is a difference in terms of what people are saying has made a pet sorc no longer a valid possible class to play- it may not be able to be top tier dps for hard vet dungeons (mazzatun, imperial city prison), pvp or trials but it's still possible to play it for the rest of the content which for some people like me is enough.

NyxWrench wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

With my swap to mother's sorrow (I was trying out rattlecage) and lesser health enchants and switch to EW for the extra magicka regen my shield alone is now only 7372 40% and my resistances from the MC/LW combo are spell 20579 and physical 16819

Yeah, I tried out Rattlecage for a bit as well, but it ended up being useless. Since I need Power Surge for healing, the Major Sorcery the armor provides ends up just being redundant.

Like you, I do a lot of the dungeon runs solo, but since I don't use pets I have to adjust how I answer stuff. Notably, I've long since given up on using shields (even before Murkmire), instead focusing more heavily on defense and health and healing.

daemondamian wrote: »

Swapping to the MC/LW combo has helped for some bosses (when soloing) that I can't avoid taking a beating from (Ilambris twin) or their special attacks - like the WS boss with the ghost adds.

Wouldn't I have more resistance/protection keeping that combo along with BS (or going all Lord Warden) rather than going all MC and dropping BS? The softcap is 33K each isn't?

The cap for resistance is indeed 33k (or maybe 33.6k). Should be a hard cap, rather than a soft cap.

MC+LW = 5,950 (using gold numbers since they're easily accessible)
LW+LW = 2,975 base, 6,845 with latent
MC+MC = 8,255, freed up skill slot
MC+LW+BS = 11,230
LW+LW+BS = 8,255 base, 12,125 with latent

So MC+LW+BS takes 4.5% less damage and does maybe 5% more damage to the enemies than MC+MC, in exchange for whatever else you could put in that skill slot.

I've been doing my own rethinking of using Boundless Storm, and finding there really aren't many good alternatives for it. It's a buff/AOE DOT that lasts 20 seconds, so has a relatively low magicka cost per unit time for the benefits it provides.

Unless you desperately need to fit in an offense skill (eg: Endless Fury) or a recovery skill (eg: Dark Conversion, Meditation), there's no solid motivation to remove it. Certainly not for a solo player; group players have more options available. I've tried doing without, and it just hasn't worked for me.

As such, I'll backtrack on the earlier suggestion. Keep the MC+LW+BS setup. Full LW is a small bit better when the latent is active, but not enough that I think it's worth the hassle, and the extra skill slot probably isn't going to gain enough value to be worth dropping the extra 3k resistance.

Aside from triggering Infernal Guardian and a one second buffer to cast another skill or to get out of the way the HW or EW doesn't seem to be anywhere as nearly useful or relevant as it did before which is why I turned to Dark Magic and Degeneration for healing - I'm not sure I could get rid of Boundless Storm because it works with Critical/Power Surge so well for additional healing.

If I'm not using IG I don't even use Empowered Ward much at all. I'm tempted to replace it with Elusive Mist - I'm a dunmer vampire too lol.

Alpheu5 wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why anyone would use the clanfear over the scamp as a DPS is beyond me. You will die less using the scamp because things will be dead faster. Simple. Using power surge, again, I am not sure why you need a ward at all in pve. It is really crazy seeing a dps care at all about resistance.

Well I was using the scamp but I get a heal out of the clannfear. Maybe you personally don't need a ward or high resistance for any pve but for soloing *some* (group not public) dungeon bosses I find it essential as a pet sorc in light armor.

If I'm in a group in a dungeon with a proper healer then I will use a more dps oriented monster set like grothdarr, valykn or ilambris.

ccfeeling - it ain't going to happen. I'm not going to drop my pet sorc for some other best class dps meta just so I can be top tier BiS dps for trials, vet dungeons and pvp.

In PvE, DPS health pools are too low for the Clannfear heal to be superior to the Twilight assuming you have ~40k mag and ~2.5k spell power. Depending on your CP, the turning point where the Clannfear starts to come out ahead is somewhere around 24k HP if I remember correctly.

If you're talking strictly PvE, I recommend slotting the Scamp for most group PvE content (assuming your healer isn't trash), and using the Twilight if you want to trust yourself to do your own healing. Plus it benefits the group and costs less to cast.

Okay thanks I did not know or remember that about the Twilight - I think I tried a Twilight early on and got rid of it because it didn't seem to do much, died too easily or got stuck. I also tried briefly the 2 pet sorc build and cut back to the VF when they both kept dying and I couldn't even solo a dolmen that I had done before then.

I suppose I definitely could have both Twilight and Scamp 'learned' and swap between them as needed between soling group content and doing group content in a group.

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

I have to agree with @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO, but never using a ward? Ive never used a pet build but im genuinely curious because there are lots of mechanics in the game where you just will take heavy damage. You say you slot ward if you think you need more survivability. Do you always rely on healers and self heals or do you have specific stops where you slot ward before the next battle? Ive always ran ward since launch I guess so I never considered going without.


I do believe these health/resistance factors are better for pvp builds.

I've always ran heavy ward, and even stacked HW and annulment until I realised HW byitself was enough, but then Nerfmire happened and the HW or CW no longer serves the same function as it once did unless of course you have the stats to get it to what is used to be but then you don't have the stats for functional let alone magicka dps.

Being able to slot in a different ability or even monster set between different battles is great and I do it when I'm soloing but it's not always possible in a pubg.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why anyone would use the clanfear over the scamp as a DPS is beyond me. You will die less using the scamp because things will be dead faster. Simple. Using power surge, again, I am not sure why you need a ward at all in pve. It is really crazy seeing a dps care at all about resistance.

Well I was using the scamp but I get a heal out of the clannfear. Maybe you personally don't need a ward or high resistance for any pve but for soloing *some* (group not public) dungeon bosses I find it essential as a pet sorc in light armor.

If I'm in a group in a dungeon with a proper healer then I will use a more dps oriented monster set like grothdarr, valykn or ilambris.

ccfeeling - it ain't going to happen. I'm not going to drop my pet sorc for some other best class dps meta just so I can be top tier BiS dps for trials, vet dungeons and pvp.

In PvE, DPS health pools are too low for the Clannfear heal to be superior to the Twilight assuming you have ~40k mag and ~2.5k spell power. Depending on your CP, the turning point where the Clannfear starts to come out ahead is somewhere around 24k HP if I remember correctly.

If you're talking strictly PvE, I recommend slotting the Scamp for most group PvE content (assuming your healer isn't trash), and using the Twilight if you want to trust yourself to do your own healing. Plus it benefits the group and costs less to cast.

It is crazy to think that the op doesn't see this. My magsorc is easy mode and I have never looked at resistance on him at all.

I run both pets with maw/necro/mad tinkerer, MT gets me like 4% of my DPS, hit for like 20k with deadric prey and a free AOE stun. May bars look like this-

Front bar infused lightning staff if mad tinkerer, fire enchantment

Inner light- scamp- matriarch- deadric prey- crystal frags- ulti destro ulti

Back bar infused lightning vma staff, lightning enchant.

Power surge- scamp- matriarch- lightning flood- unstable blockade, ulti atro


If I think I need more survivability, I slot empowered Ward in deadric preys slot. This has been my farming toon for vma and I can complete all content I have tried, though I don't care to try to solo 4 man dungeons, I don't see the point, if you are farming the dungeon, it is always better to have a full team and finding people to run any dungeon is easy, even with my odd hours, mostly early morning.

The best way to survive in this game is to kill things before they can hurt you. Looking for resistance on a dps will lower your DPS, this will lead to longer fights and more opportunities to die. Use the scamp.

I understand that having higher dps means something dies quicker and therefore can't kill you but if you can't execute the dps because attacks prevent or interrupt casting abilities and your rotation and your health gets cut down quickly before you can cast anything then being able to do high dps becomes irrelevant if you can't actually do the dps.

Of course though I'm referring to soloing group dungeons - in public dungeons or group dungeons in a group then you don't have the problem as you can usually output your full dps and or get extra/external support/healing.

As to why I choose to solo 4 man dungeons?

A: because it's a personal challenge just to see if I can do it and/or

B: you have to wait a long time for a pubg especially if it's not one of the daily undaunted pledges and

C: even you do it vet level there's no guarantee that other players will be the same lvl and

D : have a decent healer and/or

E: get the thing you want and even if they do

F: they won't always give it to you or offer to give to you even if you state from the outset that you were looking for something in particular despite the fact that they may even well have just what you're looking for (which I know from past experience and having the loot addon that tells you what everyone's loot in your group is)

G: and even if you're in a guild you can't really expect or ask other members to run the same dungeon multiple times until you get what you want.

H: I can run through a dungeon for a pledge to get transmute gems when I want rather than waiting for a pubg.

I: finally if I can solo a dungeon then I do choose to do the easy route of a pubg because it's just for a pledge and I don't mind being queued while I'm farming or doing a survey or treasure map, then I know I'm capable of doing it, what the mechanics are and that if I end up in a group that gets wiped on it and I get blamed for not being a high enough dps that it's not my problem, fault or responsibility.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@daemondamian I am not going to reply to your ABC one by one. All I can tell you, as a dps, my queue times are maybe 5-10 minutes for random dungeons. Most of the time less. And I would never queue for a dungeon that was not the daily pledge. All the stuff you have listed literally does nothing for me. I have gave you my best advice. You do you and best of luck trying to do the things you are trying to.

ihazzit

daemondamian wrote: »

Well I was using the scamp but I get a heal out of the clannfear. Maybe you personally don't need a ward or high resistance for any pve but for soloing *some* (group not public) dungeon bosses I find it essential as a pet sorc in light armor.

@daemondamian I run magsorc mostly solo to this day too including those dungeons you mentioned and VMA and the clannfear is my favorite pet that I use it sometimes just because I like it, but the other posters are right in saying it's not the best option. It only does physical damage too now which isn't too helpful for a magsorc. The healing matriarch (Twilight Matriarch) is a better option if you are able to use it.

An option to consider is using a resto staff on your 2nd bar for heavy attacks and heals. You can slot surge on your resto bar with your shield and heals and your execute and have boundless and your dots along with force pulse on your destro bar. So a typical rotation is surge - bar swap - boundless - liquid lightning - wall of elements - force pulse or swap back to resto for shield/healing/heavy - then repeat dots and add some force pulse before swapping back to the resto. It's a little more bar swapping than other setups but it's very effective for healing while attacking in solo mode. That way you can use Necro with another set geared for more dps such as Mad Tinkerer or Julianos, etc. and even slot Daedric Prey perhaps instead of a shield.

If you utilize heavy attacks enough then another option to consider is using Bahraha's Curse with Necro and your pet and destro staves. It's not a full magicka utilitarian set but it makes up for it with the heals. The extra health and stamina it adds does give you a little more on the top end for health and an extra roll dodge or couple of blocks during combat. I use this setup for everything and rarely use shields anymore. The bar setup for that is typical, buffs and dots then bar swap.

daemondamian

ihazzit wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

Well I was using the scamp but I get a heal out of the clannfear. Maybe you personally don't need a ward or high resistance for any pve but for soloing *some* (group not public) dungeon bosses I find it essential as a pet sorc in light armor.

@daemondamian I run magsorc mostly solo to this day too including those dungeons you mentioned and VMA and the clannfear is my favorite pet that I use it sometimes just because I like it, but the other posters are right in saying it's not the best option. It only does physical damage too now which isn't too helpful for a magsorc. The healing matriarch (Twilight Matriarch) is a better option if you are able to use it.

An option to consider is using a resto staff on your 2nd bar for heavy attacks and heals. You can slot surge on your resto bar with your shield and heals and your execute and have boundless and your dots along with force pulse on your destro bar. So a typical rotation is surge - bar swap - boundless - liquid lightning - wall of elements - force pulse or swap back to resto for shield/healing/heavy - then repeat dots and add some force pulse before swapping back to the resto. It's a little more bar swapping than other setups but it's very effective for healing while attacking in solo mode. That way you can use Necro with another set geared for more dps such as Mad Tinkerer or Julianos, etc. and even slot Daedric Prey perhaps instead of a shield.

If you utilize heavy attacks enough then another option to consider is using Bahraha's Curse with Necro and your pet and destro staves. It's not a full magicka utilitarian set but it makes up for it with the heals. The extra health and stamina it adds does give you a little more on the top end for health and an extra roll dodge or couple of blocks during combat. I use this setup for everything and rarely use shields anymore. The bar setup for that is typical, buffs and dots then bar swap.

Thanks for your suggestions. I tried going back to the VF in solo Wayrest1 but switched over to the Twilight Matriarch instead which was/is great for the occasional emergency heals and that bit of extra magic damage.

I did have Daedric Prey slotted but I've actually got rid of my EW shield (still learned just in case I do a vet dungeon or arena where I might need it) and found I don't need it for Wayrest1 and slotted in Destructive Clench on my inferno staff instead.

The animation is a little silly casting shattering prison on a target and then destr. clench though it pushes the enemy even further away and causes some burning.

I used to use (spam) force pulse heaps (and then switched to elemental ring for positioning/max damage use on bosses immune to minor mangle) which seemed to account for lots of dps according to combat metrics. I got rid of it to use the dark magic skills but I really should compare it to destructive clench.

After shattering prison, elemental blockade and liquid lightning on a mob elemental ring could be a good finisher with only 1 or 2 uses needed.

firedrgn

This does not answer your question. And will lower your dps a little but im running a pet build so ya.

I am running 5 heavy brass fortress and one medium one light monster.
Necro on weapon and jewelry.
Still at over 50k max magica and 2 k sd.

I dropped the shields i dont even slot one. Shields would be around 11k and have huge resistif u did slot one. I have not run any dlc yet but vet hm some others and have only died once.
I can also run tri stat food so i can roll dodge more. Over witch mothers. The resource return is obviously huge with hvy armor passives.



I am going to try 5 light necro and move brass to the weapons and jewelry and see if i can still survive with out shield. For more pen and the other light armor passives.

Still more options to try but i can run hm pledges so i am happy. I am doing anywhere from 42 to 53 % of group dps so i feel like i am not beeing carried.


I have some other ideas also but i can at least que for vet 4 mans for now.