Can We Bring Back Softcaps?

Valrien

And while we're at it, remove CP and get rid of these stamina morphs on class skills so people have more choices (since there are soft caps) again?

Valrien

Please

TheGreatBlackBear

Explain to me what a soft cap is @Valrien

Fishoscandi

Valrien wrote: »

And while we're at it, remove CP and get rid of these stamina morphs on class skills so people have more choices (since there are soft caps) again?

Wouldn't getting rid of stamina morphs on class skills mean less choices?

Valrien

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Explain to me what a soft cap is @Valrien

Basically, back in the glory days of ESO, after a certain point stats had diminishing returns.

E.g.,. You could stack 4k magicka, but after 4k your bonuses increases your Max magicka pool by less.

Essentially this capped your magicka because it was more profitable to stack other things after that point.

It basically balanced out stats more so you don't have the 7k weapon damage meme builds we have today

Valrien

Fishoscandi wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

And while we're at it, remove CP and get rid of these stamina morphs on class skills so people have more choices (since there are soft caps) again?

Wouldn't getting rid of stamina morphs on class skills mean less choices?

Not when we have soft caps and no CP since everyone can make use of the morphs without needing to dip too hard into your stamina pool (since you still need that for weapon skills and dodging)

eso_nya

first iteration of the game. all stats were capped and could be maxed out, so everyone had the same pools (2k mag, 2k stam, 2,3k health iirr, all 3 regens maxed; all numbers were 10 times lower than now)
back than the game was called "elder staves online" and "meta" was permablocking (stam regen while blocking \o/) impulsespam. stamina morphs did not exist.

Valrien

Valrien wrote: »

Fishoscandi wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

And while we're at it, remove CP and get rid of these stamina morphs on class skills so people have more choices (since there are soft caps) again?

Wouldn't getting rid of stamina morphs on class skills mean less choices?

Not when we have soft caps and no CP since everyone can make use of the morphs without needing to dip too hard into your stamina pool (since you still need that for weapon skills and dodging)

To elaborate on this, the game used to be set up that all class skills were magicka skills and all weapon skills (barring staves) and fighters guild skills were stamina skills. Weapon damage used to be different too iirc (I believe it affected all weapon skills, light heavy and medium attacks, etc etc).

In essence, because of the soft caps and lack of damage-type-enhancing CP that were in place, builds were a bit more flexible and no one could just mindlessly stack massive amounts of damage stat and expect to face roll everything

eso_nya

ya, resto staff skills scaled with weapon damage.

Valrien

eso_nya wrote: »

ya, resto staff skills scaled with weapon damage.

I'm having a hard time remembering. Didn't Destro too or am I stupid?

OGLezard

Valrien wrote: »

eso_nya wrote: »

ya, resto staff skills scaled with weapon damage.

I'm having a hard time remembering. Didn't Destro too or am I stupid?

It did because, according to them, it is technically a weapon so it made sense to do it that way

WuffyCerulei

I think the game relies to heavily on CP now for that to ever come back. Pve is mainly reliant on it. Vet trials would be near impossible with softcaps.

Valrien

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I think the game relies to heavily on CP now for that to ever come back. Pve is mainly reliant on it. Vet trials would be near impossible with softcaps.

I'm not saying the game wouldn't need rebalancing, but there wouldn't be near as many variables so it would overall be better for the game.

They can and should, in essence, revert back to 1.0-1.5

Facefister

Valrien wrote: »

Basically, back in the glory days of ESO[...]

ESO was one of the worst MMOs before TamOne.

frostz417

Lol
Just
Lol

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

id kill squirrels for this...yes I regret ever being in favor for them...it just didn't worked the way I hoped...just like CP...

Valrien

Facefister wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Basically, back in the glory days of ESO[...]

ESO was one of the worst MMOs before TamOne.

Not really. One Tamriel also kinda messed up a fair amount of story continuity.

frostz417

One Tamriel is what made the game better, why take steps back to make the game worse.

Glurin

It sound's like you're wanting to just rewind time, which is a bit much and in all honesty not a very good idea.

I'm with you on diminishing returns and probably stamina morphs after that, but not getting rid of CP. CP could use some tweaking for sure, but I don't think dumping it is the right way to go. Diminishing returns might need a little rethinking as well rather than just bringing back the old system as it was. Getting rid of stamina morphs would only be good after diminishing returns were put back in. Without them, stamina morphs are a requirement because you pretty much have to just put everything into one stat right now, which would leave stamina DPS with nothing but weapon skills.

Strider__Roshin

Facefister wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Basically, back in the glory days of ESO[...]

ESO was one of the worst MMOs before TamOne.

This. Do you not realize how terrible this game was in the beginning?

ESO has come a long way since its inception. Reverting to how it was in the beginning would be financial suicide.

Jhalin

is this what it looks like when old people talk about 'the good ol days'?

Anrose

The old days:
Garbage game = lots of fun

These days:
Garbage game = no fun

srfrogg23

Yes. Let's trade the new meta for the old meta...

Shadow_Viper_vX

There is literally no valid reason to do this.

frostz417

This thread idea is almost as bad as the “jumping should cost stamina” idea. Lol

Valrien

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

There is literally no valid reason to do this.

Well, CP and lack of soft caps rekt balance so that could be a valid reason lol

idk

Valrien wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Explain to me what a soft cap is @Valrien

Basically, back in the glory days of ESO

OP is interested in going back to when stamina builds were restricted to only weapon skills and we had to level up every character twice to be at the end game. The second leveling process (vet ranks) was twice as much effort as the first. Really poor design.

Balance was also just as bad as it is today. Some seem to forget this or look at things with rose colored glasses.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

Just curious why the OP likes the idea of soft caps? Is it for a specific play imbalance issue?

Red_Feather

I made a suggestion that for CP once you raised a perk high enough it starts negatively affecting an opposing stat each increase.

Like how in guild wars a +3 attribute rune would subtract health.
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rune_of_Air_Magic

RedRook

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I think the game relies to heavily on CP now for that to ever come back. Pve is mainly reliant on it. Vet trials would be near impossible with softcaps.

Same with removing CP. Too much of our power has been taken and transferred into CP, that ship has sailed I think.

Besides, do we trust the current dev team to implement such a big change in a way that would actually feel like an improvement? I do not.

Nebthet78

idk wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Explain to me what a soft cap is @Valrien

Basically, back in the glory days of ESO

OP is interested in going back to when stamina builds were restricted to only weapon skills and we had to level up every character twice to be at the end game. The second leveling process (vet ranks) was twice as much effort as the first. Really poor design.

Balance was also just as bad as it is today. Some seem to forget this or look at things with rose colored glasses.

I think a lot of people assume that the OP wants a full reversal to prior to One Tam, but I don't think that is really what they are saying at all.

People *** and whine about getting too strong in this game and then whine more when ZOS nerfs everyone. People are whining that CP is the root cause. There is only one way to fix this and it is bringing back soft and hard caps.

It means there is an actual end point to how far you can go with damage, and other stats before they become useless to spend points in any longer. It would force people to spend more CP points in other areas, sooner than they already do.
It would mean that ZOS can state, no matter what you do with your character the max damage you can do is say 45k. Which means end game elitist meta build players can't blow through content like they used too, or at least not as fast as they used too. 50k,60k, 70k parses will no longer exist.

If done correctly, it could mean viable hybrid builds may be able to make a return. It means that for some players, they can have fun with different armour sets that aren't meta, and may be able to still complete end game content. It means the return of diversity to this game.

If ZOS keeps the caps within reasonable levels within damage ranges that we see today, then things are not going to be any worse than they are now for the average player. Heck, lower than average players may even get a hand up.

The unfortunate thing about One Tamriel, is the fact that any new overworld content comes out at the same level as the base game content and therefore doesn't add any additional challenge, which makes the Power Creep from CP more noticeable and much less enjoyable. Hence the complaining about it and then the constant rebalancing. New Trials and Dungeons tend to be where the challenge is taken, however, many players are locked out of that content by other players because they don't meet the other's standards.

At least when we had the soft and hard caps, we had much greater diversity in this game that actually allowed us to build our characters the way we wanted to, using armor or skills that weren't meta while still being able to do the content.