Ultimates and wardens

TheGreatBlackBear

[edited title]

You all were upset at the thought of cutting down the power of your class ultimates. And rightfully so. As one user put it "they're called ultimates for a reason". So why oh why oh why is there no big outrage over the gutting of the Warden bear? We don't trouble anyone. And best believe that if it were Ballista, Dawnbreaker, Meteor , or any other signature ultimate being destroyed wardens would stand with you ALL in the united pushback against such foolishness. You don't have to like the bear, but PLEASE say something. Today it's wardens next patch it could and (likely) would be another class. (Remember how Templars were systematically pulled apart?) We are all paying customers and we should stand TOGETHER.

max_only

Thank you! Preach it!

josiahva

I agree....as a stamden, I hate the stupid bear and wish we had a non-pet class ult. I hate pets in general...but its no reason to nerf an already mediocre ultimate.

Mayrael

As a someone who only lvled wardens out of curiosity and plays them only when extremely bored, I support wardens on this. Bear ultimate is already underwhelming. Come on its double slotted ultimate, it needs to be awesome in some way...

MooseKnuckles88

The sad truth is no body but warden players care, and we likely make up less than 10% of the end game, so the other 90% could care less. Watch how many views warden threads get compared say a nightblade or sorc thread will get.

I would like to see some of these changes not go live at all, but talk about screaming with no one listening... I've even started other warden threads and never even got any type of dev response. I don't want to settle, but what else is there to say or do when devs can't even acknowledge your existence and the community rolls their eyes?

ConeOfSilence

I only just started playing a Stamden ( lvl 50 ), still trying to work the class out a bit but to me the bear doesn't seem overpowered so I don't know why they would want to nerf it.

max_only

josiahva wrote: »

I agree....as a stamden, I hate the stupid bear and wish we had a non-pet class ult. I hate pets in general...but its no reason to nerf an already mediocre ultimate.

I use Permafrost to great effect as an ultimate for my Warden tank so there’s that.

I only use the bear when I’m solo because tanks don’t have a lot of damage.

Even if it’s not an ultimate I use, it is still an unnecessary nerf.

I suggested they have it heavy attack less frequently or increase the ultimate cost of the special maul ability if they have to change it. We remain ignored.

Knightpanther

Why is it getting nerfed? did someone get mauled in PvPer (usually the source of all nerfs)

max_only

This is the reason they gave

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We reduced the damage of bear so we could buff the base damage of Wardens; the overall DPS should be within 1-2% of what it was before due to the buff of Advanced Species. This means anyone who doesn't use the bear will see less of a DPS loss.

The only reply to any of the warden bear threads including the official one.

MooseKnuckles88

Knightpanther wrote: »

Why is it getting nerfed? did someone get mauled in PvPer (usually the source of all nerfs)

My guess is they felt they needed to whack a massive chunk off the bears dmg because they added a few minor cost changes and gave us an additional 1% dmg boost to the advanced species passive, and you no longer need to cast Bird of Prey for the minor berserk boost if you have it slotted. Oh, and they added minor toughness to our abilities and they made pets unkillable (which applies to anyone who has a combat pet) in group settings, in which the Feral Guardian morph Eternal Guardian grants your bear to be automagickally resummoned upon death, in other words our current magicka morph Eternal Guardian is useless because it's not providing any additional assistance once morphed. They also added 60%, nope wait...now 40% sustain boost from the netch. They also made some unpopular or sense making changes to Artic Blast.

I ASSUME, Because of those changes, they felt that it was appropriate to eliminate the bears damage by 30%, I'm not certain that is the reason why because I have yet to see a flat out statement from any dev or read it in the meeting notes, so this is only a speculation.

I know stamdens got a buff, shalks and cliff racer costs less, so the bear had to be nerfed to keep stamdens in check, but they completely dropped the ball for magdens. Our cost went up for swarm, they could have simply added more dps to swarm since it's a magicka used skill anyways to compensate for the damage loss from the bear. This would more or less keep magdens from slipping further behind rather falling fast. It's not like magdens were ever even close to be a front runner dps class anyways, so the magden nerfs just make me cringe.

Defilted

Does anyone know why the bear had its damage nerfed by 30%? There was no comments in the patch notes.



#nightmarebear

Royaji

max_only wrote: »

This is the reason they gave

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We reduced the damage of bear so we could buff the base damage of Wardens; the overall DPS should be within 1-2% of what it was before due to the buff of Advanced Species. This means anyone who doesn't use the bear will see less of a DPS loss.

The only reply to any of the warden bear threads including the official one.

Let's be honest it's not like any other class gets better explanations. DKs get nothing, Templars get nothing. Sometimes if the change is really bad you will see a big debaucle and ZOS will actually do something. It's not related to any class.

Nerfing the bear sucks. It's a clunky and mediocre ultimate. But this is just one of those quirks ZOS has. Nerf stuff and ask questions later. Everyone gets nerfs pretty much every patch. And they are usually not reverted.

One thing I would pick up from that whole thing is that ZOS is content with warden's DPS and does not plan to increase it.

weedgenius

I'm very upset about this change and I feel for my fellow wardens. I'm very upset about the nerf to wings, as well. Needs to be double barred and the duration is decimated. Unacceptable. I don't even know why we bother playing this class because ZOS does not care about our experience.

sola281

Pets and pet builds are bad in ESO, so nerfing them makes no sense.

weedgenius

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

I would like to see some of these changes not go live at all, but talk about screaming with no one listening... I've even started other warden threads and never even got any type of dev response. I don't want to settle, but what else is there to say or do when devs can't even acknowledge your existence and the community rolls their eyes?

Preach!!!

MooseKnuckles88

In short, i

weedgenius wrote: »

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

I would like to see some of these changes not go live at all, but talk about screaming with no one listening... I've even started other warden threads and never even got any type of dev response. I don't want to settle, but what else is there to say or do when devs can't even acknowledge your existence and the community rolls their eyes?

Preach!!!

If you want the views it's gonna have to be from baiting, but any thread with "warden" in the title is only gonna get us last remaining wardens attention.

TheGreatBlackBear

Lol. The title of this thread was edited by a mod. So yea we're not gonna be heard.

RedRook

Well, I only have so much outrage in me, and they gave me so many things to choose from with this patch.

But really, I just hate the bear. That's why I'm not complaining. The pet AI in this game is terrible, which is why my magsorc only uses them when absolutely necessary. The magicka morph of Bear makes him resummon himself ffs as if that's some kind of bonus, and he's clunky and dumb fighting anything but a target skelly.

I'm sorry if they jacked up your build, those of you who like Bear, but I'm just not upset about it. The change to Bird of Prey is much worse, for me. I doubt I'll play my magden in Murkmire.

max_only

RedRook wrote: »

Well, I only have so much outrage in me, and they gave me so many things to choose from with this patch.

But really, I just hate the bear. That's why I'm not complaining. The pet AI in this game is terrible, which is why my magsorc only uses them when absolutely necessary. The magicka morph of Bear makes him resummon himself ffs as if that's some kind of bonus, and he's clunky and dumb fighting anything but a target skelly.

I'm sorry if they jacked up your build, those of you who like Bear, but I'm just not upset about it. The change to Bird of Prey is much worse, for me. I doubt I'll play my magden in Murkmire.

The change to Artic Blast is worse for my personal build, I’m a health tank. Like I said, I only use him when I’m solo.

This is a matter of principle. Also if we only care about ourselves there will be no one to care about us. I supported the shield nerf backlash. I support other classes I no longer play when the proposed change is BLATANTLY unnecessary.

They advertise the class as a pet class. They make us use BOTH ultimate slots if we want to get what we (some of us at least) paid for. It’s not overpowered as it is. It’s not even desirable as it is. It misses frequently. It doesn’t even make it to the fight sometimes. And yet, a 30% decrease is the solution?

You don’t care, fine. I wish you happy trails.

MooseKnuckles88

Truth is like I said in other threads, I don't like having to crutch on the bear for dps, but the devs made wardens go this route from the beginning, I never really liked it, but I dealt with it since the alternative was less dps on a magden.

I'm not even completely opposed to them nerfing the bear; HOWEVER, do add in something to make up for the dps loss or lets go with incremental dps reductions say 10 to 15% less, not something extreme like a 30% hammer. The bear should offer buffs that help aid a warden in a fight, not go to that target and just deal damage. This would help a lot since the beard AI isn't the best, but would still be beneficial to have slotted to help buff the warden or the group depending on the buff. The bear is iconic to the warden's image, so I can't say I never wanna see him out running around or crowding everyones crafting table but seriously the bear should not be just dps yes it should deal damage, I mean it is a freaking bear, but also add with a useful group buff and it's got a whole new image and purpose at a trial. At least in my opinion.

geonsocal

Knightpanther wrote: »

Why is it getting nerfed? did someone get mauled in PvPer (usually the source of all nerfs)

unfortunately the bear doesn't really work in cyrodiil...

I tried and tried...even using tab targeting, just really hard to control the bear...

the damage/utility was never that great...

for rp purposes it would be awesome if it did...the bear looks cool...

for a while I had my stamden using unfathomable darkness (crow proc), maw of the infernal (deadroth proc) and the bear...

zaria

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

The sad truth is no body but warden players care, and we likely make up less than 10% of the end game, so the other 90% could care less. Watch how many views warden threads get compared say a nightblade or sorc thread will get.

I would like to see some of these changes not go live at all, but talk about screaming with no one listening... I've even started other warden threads and never even got any type of dev response. I don't want to settle, but what else is there to say or do when devs can't even acknowledge your existence and the community rolls their eyes?

Somebody got killed in PvP by an warden with an bear.
Or they was AFK to get an beer but beer and bears is easy to confuse, anyway its unfair and nerf.

I want to increase the cost of nerf requests to 200 CP from my old 100 CP demand, you can also pile up negative CP.
On the downside Kyne will be constant pop locked and extremely toxic.

MLGProPlayer

Defilted wrote: »

Does anyone know why the bear had its damage nerfed by 30%? There was no comments in the patch notes.



#nightmarebear

ZOS hates warden players. They derive some kind of sick pleasure from watching us struggle through and get kicked from endgame content.

MagicalLija

I'm pretty upset about the bear nerfs. It's like, The one thing cool about wardens, BEARS AND FROST MAGIC! Frost magic was already pretty underwhelming and now they're nerfing the bears.

TheGreatBlackBear

My magden is my main DPS toon. I primarily heal. Let me just say that magden's toolkit is poor.(Yes we see you Mag dks) So when the bear crits 100k on a heavy attack in a raid during execute it doesn't even begin to make up for the rest of the fight. The entire class seems haphazardly put together. I have to go 25 metres back to get max dam from cliff racer which already is hard to aim , use and weave and but doing so puts me out of range for the shalks and group heals and buffs. I'm left with an increased cost fetcher infection for my only useful reliable source of damage from the animal companions tree. Slotting other skills removes the supposed class saving increase damage passive from advanced species. The bird of prey change just means that I lost another slot on my front bar. (yay) Literally every damage dealing skill in animal companions is poor. So yea don't get why they felt the need to gut the bear. Winter's revenge is good but it's not enough. I might as well go on my stamblade slot three bloodthirsty and killer blade my way to victory.

RedRook

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Does anyone know why the bear had its damage nerfed by 30%? There was no comments in the patch notes.



#nightmarebear

ZOS hates warden players. They derive some kind of sick pleasure from watching us struggle through and get kicked from endgame content.

I'm starting to think they just hate magicka builds. Greatswords and vigor for everyone!

MLGProPlayer

RedRook wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Does anyone know why the bear had its damage nerfed by 30%? There was no comments in the patch notes.



#nightmarebear

ZOS hates warden players. They derive some kind of sick pleasure from watching us struggle through and get kicked from endgame content.

I'm starting to think they just hate magicka builds. Greatswords and vigor for everyone!

Nah, magicka classes dominated endgame for a long time. It's just magicka wardens they hate. All other magicka classes go through cycles of nerfs/buffs. Magicka wardens only receive nerfs. They've been the worst DPS class in the game since the class was released, and they're still there (possibly at their lowest point yet).

max_only

I’ve been told that the bear doesn’t miss and it’s pathing is good enough where it counts. You dps Wardens will have to refute that. When I use him when solo questing he does miss but maybe my experience isn’t enough of an indication.

MLGProPlayer

max_only wrote: »

I’ve been told that the bear doesn’t miss and it’s pathing is good enough where it counts. You dps Wardens will have to refute that. When I use him when solo questing he does miss but maybe my experience isn’t enough of an indication.

It would seem overland content is where ZOS does their testing. They must have noticed that the bear ultimate cast kills wolves in 1 hit, so a nerf was in order.

max_only

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I’ve been told that the bear doesn’t miss and it’s pathing is good enough where it counts. You dps Wardens will have to refute that. When I use him when solo questing he does miss but maybe my experience isn’t enough of an indication.

It would seem overland content is where ZOS does their testing. They must have noticed that the bear ultimate cast kills wolves in 1 hit, so a nerf was in order.

Well I wouldn’t know. Maybe issues with the bear is partially a L2P thing, as has been suggested to me.



Personally, if you want to sell a product you don’t decrease its effectiveness. We’re the only class that costs extra to play. I’m not asking for pay 2 win, I’m asking for the main feature to be legit. People who don’t want to play warden with the bear -in any circumstance- could make the case for their own Cyromancer class instead of being happy that those of us who were waiting for a Druid/hunter are getting neutered.

mague

geonsocal wrote: »

I tried and tried...even using tab targeting, just really hard to control the bear...

I guess that.

The bear needs developers to work on. Seems they dont have the time and moving damage to other skills is less time consuming. The fun thing is that some kept the bear for Flourish and Advanced Species without wasting a slot. Most here know that it doesnt matter what a build does on a dummy. But they need to track their stuff on a matrix or spread sheet.

On the Gamepad its even worse. There is only one command: Heavy attack = assist me. On all platforms he doesnt even show a health bar.

If the bear was a bear, as in Orc on steroids, and had a few own (command) skills to slot, then i d be willing to use those slots. I d probably only keep Shrooms and Frost Cloak. But only if the bears was a real mean Grizzly with something like an attack/retreat toggle command, taunt/block toggle command, heal/defend command.

I was not on PTS and i ll wait how the bear really is after the patch.