Need to be able to interrupt defencive channels..

olsborg

Meditate is an issue imo, Example: youre beating on a tank, you cant burst him cause he keeps block up 98% of the time so whenever you cc him and get some burst into him you can grind his hp down eventually....unless he has meditate skill, because then he can channel it for 5s after he breaks the cc and effectively gain more resources then he spent the last 10s blocking and healing.

This isnt only a problem on tanks either. There is no counterplay to meditate when they already have ccimmunity.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Bash?

Feanor

The opponent is also not doing anything else for 5 seconds. I get that a lot of players want to be able to oneshot everything, but can we stop asking for nerfs to every defensive mechanic?

Xeniph

I see no issue here. Said player is no threat at all.

He can't kill you, siege, rez, drop a camp. Utterly useless besides being a distraction on players that go after them like a dog with a bone.

It's quite simple, keep an aye on them and bash when they try to do something useful. Simple as that.

Derra

you could always just outdmg someone healing with meditate? i mean it´s 1500 heal/s which gets halved in pvp...

Galarthor

He is right about the tanks though.
You are not going to kill a tanky build while he meditates, the 30% damage reduction on top of the already high tankiness ensures that. It's even worse when they got other defensive tools running, especially when they are of the non-depelting time (i.e. no shield). At the same time the regenerate more resources than they used prior. Afterwards they just go back to permablocking and heal up to full in 1 or 2 globals.

It's less viable on light and medium armor builds, b/c the 1500 hps is not off-setting the damage you take - even with major protection active.

olsborg

Meditate = major protection while channeling. If u burst while they are doing that ure wasting ult.

Derra

Galarthor wrote: »

He is right about the tanks though.
You are not going to kill a tanky build while he meditates, the 30% damage reduction on top of the already high tankiness ensures that. It's even worse when they got other defensive tools running, especially when they are of the non-depelting time (i.e. no shield). At the same time the regenerate more resources than they used prior. Afterwards they just go back to permablocking and heal up to full in 1 or 2 globals.

It's less viable on light and medium armor builds, b/c the 1500 hps is not off-setting the damage you take - even with major protection active.

Sure but that´s a general problem with tank builds - however how much of a problem is it really - those builds do nothing but tank. They´re otherwise useless.

Asking for a nerf to meditate bc it overperforms on "useless" builds is somewhat questionable.
I don´t see many light or mediumarmor builds utilize the skill and if they do it´s certainly not op.

Ragnaroek93

I don't know, the skill is cool and makes some fun builds viable. Making it interruptle for the whole time would make the skill complete useless. I see why this skill can be annoying in a 1v1 tho, but 1v1 is cheese anyways.

Koolio

Just set up a cold fire trebuchet.

We did last night. Works like a champ.

Amdar_Godkiller

Derra wrote: »

you could always just outdmg someone healing with meditate? i mean it´s 1500 heal/s which gets halved in pvp...

Smart players will cast all their hots first then meditate with major protection. It's very easy to meditate with 5K hots on top.

This is a legitimate issue. I think CC immunity should not apply to bashing channels. It completely removes the risk/reward nature of them.

Derra

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

you could always just outdmg someone healing with meditate? i mean it´s 1500 heal/s which gets halved in pvp...

Smart players will cast all their hots first then meditate with major protection. It's very easy to meditate with 5K hots on top.

This is a legitimate issue. I think CC immunity should not apply to bashing channels. It completely removes the risk/reward nature of them.

the problem is that this would be nerfing a high risk reward tool for medium and light armor builds -

because of unkillable but useless heavyarmor tanks. not really desireable balancing approach if you ask me.

ccfeeling

You cannot kill a real tank build easily even without Meditate , this is how the game run .

If you cannot beat him , leave him .

Nerfing is meaningless , ZOS can't set everything for you .

Galarthor

Derra wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

He is right about the tanks though.
You are not going to kill a tanky build while he meditates, the 30% damage reduction on top of the already high tankiness ensures that. It's even worse when they got other defensive tools running, especially when they are of the non-depelting time (i.e. no shield). At the same time the regenerate more resources than they used prior. Afterwards they just go back to permablocking and heal up to full in 1 or 2 globals.

It's less viable on light and medium armor builds, b/c the 1500 hps is not off-setting the damage you take - even with major protection active.

Sure but that´s a general problem with tank builds - however how much of a problem is it really - those builds do nothing but tank. They´re otherwise useless.

Asking for a nerf to meditate bc it overperforms on "useless" builds is somewhat questionable.
I don´t see many light or mediumarmor builds utilize the skill and if they do it´s certainly not op.

Yes and no.

I agree, that Meditate should not be nerfed for everybody else just b/c it is problematic on tanks.

However, that those guys can only tank and do nothing else is not correct. I have encountered some that also dealt relatively high single target damage. And that's where it becomes problematic. Because you cannot kill those guys. You literally deal almost no damage while they block, and once you depleted their stamina pool (which takes forever) they just switch to meditate and again you cannot kill them. At the same time when they go on the offensive they can kill you. And you in LA or MA spamming meditate while they are attacking you won't save your life.

I think the solution lies in the armor passives. I know you disagree, but I think heavy armor should have a damage debuff, while LA and MA get a damage bonus for their respective damage types. That would solve the issue. The HA build won't be able to kill you. At the same time, even with the damage bonus, you still won't be able to kill the tanky guy.

I know you want to maintain the "heavy armor brawler" playstyle. But a heavy armor brawler should not be as tanky as a tank and as dangerous as a damage dealer. It has to be somewhere in between, and that's currently just not the case.

Darkenarlol

stop spamming controls?

wait for no cc immune meditate and bash?

in what situation you need to actually kill a tank solo? BG? bring buddy to help you

i can't get this - why you should be able to kill everyone regardless of their build solo in a couple of seconds with brainless

burst rota?

Donnasnowheart_ESO

Could just exclude meditate and morphs from the 30% protection passive lol .

olsborg

Darkenarlol wrote: »

wait for no cc immune meditate and bash?

The issue is, while you "wait" for them to be bashable again they will have gained a tripot worth of resources and then youre back in the same situation ~10 seconds later. Around around it goes. I dunno, but in my mind it should not be this easy to have a near unkillable sustainable tanky build.