Why did Zos make city guards immortal?

Thrain

Reminds me on my try to kill a guard...
We were 6 dps and we were near a way shrine cuz under 90% max health a guard starts to onehit ppl
We were disapointed as we saw that a guard survives with 0% health and we dont even get an achievement for it
So we just reported the guard for cheating

It should be hard to kill a guard but it should be possible in my opinion

albesca

Thrain wrote: »

It should be hard to kill a guard but it should be possible in my opinion

I'd love to agree with you, but I can picture quite vividly the wasteland we'd turn every single city of Tamriel into, with only merchants and quest givers left standing amidst the carnage (shouldn't we be able to kill them too?).

I think that killable guards could only work by making some crimes add up a bounty that doesn't wear off over time and that prevent interactions with merchants and/or wayshrines: something that would make going on killing sprees heavily inconvenient, otherwise a group of bored players could raise such a hell to put daedra to shame.

Maybe guards could be incapacitated for a short time (a couple of minutes at most, I'd say) instead of dieing, but mostly I think that we're better off the way things are now

zaria

geekboy09 wrote: »

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Back when they were preparing the justice system they originally intended a open world pvp element where other players could act as guards or bounty hunters to exact justice against criminal players. But they scrapped that idea for the justice system when worries about player griefing were raised. Thus, guards are immortal to keep entire city populations from being massacred. There have been videos where a huge group of people tried killing s guard and got them to 0 hp but it didn't die. Wound up using a one hit kill move against everyone aggroed against it called Riot Control.

All that aside, it's fairly easy to avoid and/or escape the guards. Especially at higher levels.

My complaints is that they kill you way too fast

Has rarely not been able to get away from them outdoor even on magplars and similar builds.
Got killed a couple of times if teleport to places with lots of guards while having an high bounty.

menathradiel

geekboy09 wrote: »

It’s really not fair. Why can’t we kill them?

To avoid having this as the "situation normal" in every town throughout Tamriel, I imagine...

prof-dracko

Keep the obscene health bar, keep the op skills, but at least make them mortal. Make it so, that if a player is cornered and really desperate not to lose their stolen gear, they can have an honest attempt at fighting back. They'd have to avoid the other guards still, so it wouldn't be a get-out-of-arrest-free option.

StamWhipCultist

geekboy09 wrote: »

It’s really not fair. Why can’t we kill them?

I wish there were much more of these, just to make life of mass murdering NPC lazy players miserable.

Shadow_Akula

menathradiel wrote: »

geekboy09 wrote: »

It’s really not fair. Why can’t we kill them?

To avoid having this as the "situation normal" in every town throughout Tamriel, I imagine...

That’s not “situation normal” in all Tamriel????
*says as he stabs another guard*

(Btw like how that one guy is positioned in front of the meat stand, almost looks like someone took a break from fighting to conduct a professional execution)

menathradiel

Shadow_Akula wrote: »

menathradiel wrote: »

geekboy09 wrote: »

It’s really not fair. Why can’t we kill them?

To avoid having this as the "situation normal" in every town throughout Tamriel, I imagine...

That’s not “situation normal” in all Tamriel????
*says as he stabs another guard*

(Btw like how that one guy is positioned in front of the meat stand, almost looks like someone took a break from fighting to conduct a professional execution)

Well, after the quest involving Namira you never really look at the meat vendor with his "bloodiest beef in the Reach" the same way again. Some might conclude that his murderer did Markarth a public service by offing him.

primethief147

I remember about a couple months ago some guy was complaining about people killing priests in vulken guard ruining their "immersion". Turns out all those priests were daedra worshippers and i was doing their city a favor in removing those "priests" (and their valuables). As for the op if you want to go on a murder spree there are places for that, if not guards are pretty easy to avoide with practice while doing "illegal" activities.

Armatesz

It has been a bit since I seen a town guard being infinite cc'd. Ever since they nerfed the timing for the sorc rune cage I haven't seen anyone try it anymore.

Leocaran

logarifmik wrote: »

Looking at the piles of corpses on the streets of Vivec, I wish devs made all non-essential NPCs immortal.

The one extremely easy thing they really should do - is to make corpse despawn time less then NPC respawn time. Looking at one alive copy of NPC and sometimes 2 dead ones is a little... surrealistic.

Hoolielulu

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

geekboy09 wrote: »

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Back when they were preparing the justice system they originally intended a open world pvp element where other players could act as guards or bounty hunters to exact justice against criminal players. But they scrapped that idea for the justice system when worries about player griefing were raised. Thus, guards are immortal to keep entire city populations from being massacred. There have been videos where a huge group of people tried killing s guard and got them to 0 hp but it didn't die. Wound up using a one hit kill move against everyone aggroed against it called Riot Control.

All that aside, it's fairly easy to avoid and/or escape the guards. Especially at higher levels.

My complaints is that they kill you way too fast

Might be too low leveled or not geared properly. It's pretty easy to lose them if you can break line of sight by running up a platform and jumping down. Hiding under bridges like the ones in Riften are good too. At least, that's worked for me. Just a matter of practice.

Or jumping in water and swimming away.

Hoolielulu

logarifmik wrote: »

Looking at the piles of corpses on the streets of Vivec, I wish devs made all non-essential NPCs immortal.

That's my favorite hunting ground. You're welcome.

Leocaran

menathradiel wrote: »

Well, after the quest involving Namira you never really look at the meat vendor with his "bloodiest beef in the Reach" the same way again. Some might conclude that his murderer did Markarth a public service by offing him.

It's always a bit funny that most places which have some questionable meat (like various maneaters' lairs or flesh heaps in Coldharbour) also have common meat resources in there like pork or red meat or white meat.
I collect all of that when I have time.

Bruccius

I'd be fine with their immortality if you could just leave buildings while they're after you.

SaxonCrusader

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Would being able to rob and kill an entire city without any consequence be fair?

It all respawns anyway and the NPCs are none the wiser about it so that argument is mute.

Sparr0w

swippy wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

I think they’re morals are quite upstanding myself. Sure you have your corrupt few but they’re few and far between.

EDIT: OP fixed his typo. It was originally ‘immoral’.

You used "they're" in place of "their" while trying to call someone else out on a typo. That's funny. Extra edits incoming...

Wouldn't it be "They are few and far between" meaning "They're" is the correct word?

therift

1) Keep guards immortal

2) Add more guards

3) Make guards react to duels

ANGEL_BtVS

Ah, this reminds me - just the other day I was in one of the mages guild halls. I was crouched waiting for an npc to leave the area so I could loot a lockbox. As I'm sitting there another player comes running up. They clearly saw me crouched there waiting but decided to loot it anyway. The npc noticed them and they got a bounty, but I'm sure that person thought they could just leave and head to the local outlaws refuge. Turns out a guard wandered by and caught them. They tried to escape, at first making an attempt to sprint to the front door. Denied. Said guard stopped them in their tracks. I then followed that person for 2-3 minutes as they kept trying to sprint back and forth between the front door and the doors to go up the stairs. No dice, they finally tried standing their ground and attacking the guard. They ran out of stamina and the guard finished them off. I stood next to their corpse and laughed to myself. Justice was served by the immortal guard on this fine day...

Starlock

Bruccius wrote: »

I'd be fine with their immortality if you could just leave buildings while they're after you.

You can - you just have to be disengaged for a few seconds. It used to be straight up impossible, but it isn’t now.

geekboy09

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Ah, this reminds me - just the other day I was in one of the mages guild halls. I was crouched waiting for an npc to leave the area so I could loot a lockbox. As I'm sitting there another player comes running up. They clearly saw me crouched there waiting but decided to loot it anyway. The npc noticed them and they got a bounty, but I'm sure that person thought they could just leave and head to the local outlaws refuge. Turns out a guard wandered by and caught them. They tried to escape, at first making an attempt to sprint to the front door. Denied. Said guard stopped them in their tracks. I then followed that person for 2-3 minutes as they kept trying to sprint back and forth between the front door and the doors to go up the stairs. No dice, they finally tried standing their ground and attacking the guard. They ran out of stamina and the guard finished them off. I stood next to their corpse and laughed to myself. Justice was served by the immortal guard on this fine day...

lol, funny

MehrunesFlagon

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Would being able to rob and kill an entire city without any consequence be fair?

They can still kill you,and some people are just plain bad.You would see plenty losing stuff.

Reivax

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Back when they were preparing the justice system they originally intended a open world pvp element where other players could act as guards or bounty hunters to exact justice against criminal players. But they scrapped that idea for the justice system when worries about player griefing were raised. Thus, guards are immortal to keep entire city populations from being massacred. There have been videos where a huge group of people tried killing a guard and got them to 0 hp but it didn't die. Wound up using a one hit kill move against everyone aggroed against it called Riot Control.

All that aside, it's fairly easy to avoid and/or escape the guards. Especially at higher levels.

Outdoors, Guards have killed me exactly once. And I had the freshly stolen coffin lid plan on me at the time
Indoors, you're screwed because the doors all magically lock.

But yes, it's very easy to escape guards, just know the town well, and head towards water or cliffs if you can.

ProfessorKittyhawk

Reivax wrote: »

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Back when they were preparing the justice system they originally intended a open world pvp element where other players could act as guards or bounty hunters to exact justice against criminal players. But they scrapped that idea for the justice system when worries about player griefing were raised. Thus, guards are immortal to keep entire city populations from being massacred. There have been videos where a huge group of people tried killing a guard and got them to 0 hp but it didn't die. Wound up using a one hit kill move against everyone aggroed against it called Riot Control.

All that aside, it's fairly easy to avoid and/or escape the guards. Especially at higher levels.

Outdoors, Guards have killed me exactly once. And I had the freshly stolen coffin lid plan on me at the time
Indoors, you're screwed because the doors all magically lock.

But yes, it's very easy to escape guards, just know the town well, and head towards water or cliffs if you can.

If you're in a place with 2 floors it's not so much a problem. If you're up stairs simply jump down or run down and should have enough time without getting hit to be able to escape. But yeah, generally getting caught indoors is not ideal.

Sevn

TheShadowScout wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Looking at the piles of corpses on the streets of Vivec, I wish devs made all non-essential NPCs immortal.

I would more wish for the originally-planned-but-then-sadly-scrapped PvP part of the justice system, so anyone who was annoyed at that sort of thing could just PvP the criminal scum themselves, but... alas... paths not taken.

I see this notion tossed around a lot but I don't think it would be as easy as some of the "bounty hunters" think it would be to get some free easy kills. If pvp was enabled in open world you would not see the enemy players at all unless you walked around spamming some detect ability/pot, which seeing all the complaints cloak gets many don't want to slot.

Not to mention the BoW should be available against these players, they'd just be another dead corpse laying in the streets. Especially for NB's, which every thief would run if the system ever had come out.

MehrunesFlagon

prof-dracko wrote: »

Keep the obscene health bar, keep the op skills, but at least make them mortal. Make it so, that if a player is cornered and really desperate not to lose their stolen gear, they can have an honest attempt at fighting back. They'd have to avoid the other guards still, so it wouldn't be a get-out-of-arrest-free option.

If a single person can take down 10 million health while enduring the guards attacks.They deserve to get away.

swippy

Sparr0w wrote: »

swippy wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

I think they’re morals are quite upstanding myself. Sure you have your corrupt few but they’re few and far between.

EDIT: OP fixed his typo. It was originally ‘immoral’.

You used "they're" in place of "their" while trying to call someone else out on a typo. That's funny. Extra edits incoming...

Wouldn't it be "They are few and far between" meaning "They're" is the correct word?

@Sparr0w I was talking about the first use of it. It was a possessive:

"I think they're morals are quite upstanding" doesn't make sense as a contraction.

When it was used the second time around, then the contraction was appropriate.

Again, I'd never bring attention to it here if Matt wasn't having his own fun about a typo. As many know, I generally forgo capitalizing anything besides non-personal proper nouns, but in order to call out erroneous Grammar Police one might step up one's game. Forgive me, kind citizens, and carry on.

Jeremy

geekboy09 wrote: »

It’s really not fair. Why can’t we kill them?

This comes up from time to time.

Guards have to be immortal - otherwise players would just kill them and there would be no risk to getting caught while skulking around time thieving and murdering.