Templar ability: Unstable core on CC timer

Minno

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It's quite strong as is already. I crit'd someone for nearly 10k with it hah. Dunno what the person was wearing but 5k~10k per tick is strong. It maybe a feast or famine but it is strong. If you can spam this the entire time without CC immunity preventing, it will be just be flat out OP.

You made a pug eat his own light attack with his pve build lol.

Basically. Lol. It was fun and satisfying for me. Probably the receiving end was 'wtf'. I wonder what I can do with Eclipse morphs with proper damage build though.

10k DMG on the burst, 12-13k on the redirected. It won't go higher than that, if you value Regen or tankiness.

UppGRAYxDD

Total dark is fine as is, unstable core needs a hard cc attached to it when the ability ends. This would give Templars the undodgeable cc that the class needs. Plus, the animations and skill are already in the game! Just ask anyone who has ever tried to solo assault a resource in Cyrodil...

IZZEFlameLash

Minno wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It's quite strong as is already. I crit'd someone for nearly 10k with it hah. Dunno what the person was wearing but 5k~10k per tick is strong. It maybe a feast or famine but it is strong. If you can spam this the entire time without CC immunity preventing, it will be just be flat out OP.

You made a pug eat his own light attack with his pve build lol.

Basically. Lol. It was fun and satisfying for me. Probably the receiving end was 'wtf'. I wonder what I can do with Eclipse morphs with proper damage build though.

10k DMG on the burst, 12-13k on the redirected. It won't go higher than that, if you value Regen or tankiness.

When I do dmg build I am mostly YOLO. I guess I have to live to my potential then lol.

Soris

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

I have mixed feelings for this. Its live damage and heal is very handy imo. You can get nice timed burst with it even vs opponents who is breaking instantly, you usualy still get the first tick which is around 4k dmg to non tanky buids. If they really have to gut its dmg, then they should make it unbreakable for the full duration and reduce the cost. Something around 2k dmg per tick is acceptable (after battle spirit).

Flame_of_Hades

Soris wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

I have mixed feelings for this. Its live damage and heal is very handy imo. You can get nice timed burst with it even vs opponents who is breaking instantly, you usualy still get the first tick which is around 4k dmg to non tanky buids. If they really have to gut its dmg, then they should make it unbreakable for the full duration and reduce the cost. Something around 2k dmg per tick is acceptable (after battle spirit).

no... because everything in the game that stops attacking (effectively) is able to be broken.... (pvp, i hate unbreakable cc in pve -_-).. so if it cant be broken, then templars have an ability that renders a person useless, period, cause when it goes down, you are just going to re-apply it.

DeadlyRecluse

If an ability is considered OP because your options are "break free or die," literally every CC with a duration longer than second is pretty dang OP.

The_Brosteen

Arthalion1 wrote: »

@Solariken I'm moving to stamplar, so I can look at myself in the mirror. I think magplars will be everywhere when this patch goes live and will be nerfed again in three months when zos realise the error in their ways.

I was winning 1v3, sometimes 1v4, before the last two patches, which both buffed magplars. I'm really confused by people who think magplar is weak. I do have clips on my Xbox feed, not just talking the talk.

Well you see, the people who dont think magplars are good are on PC where hardly anyone who plays a magplar is actually good. So really it makes alot of sense.

Sharee

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

I have mixed feelings for this. Its live damage and heal is very handy imo. You can get nice timed burst with it even vs opponents who is breaking instantly, you usualy still get the first tick which is around 4k dmg to non tanky buids. If they really have to gut its dmg, then they should make it unbreakable for the full duration and reduce the cost. Something around 2k dmg per tick is acceptable (after battle spirit).

no... because everything in the game that stops attacking (effectively) is able to be broken.... (pvp, i hate unbreakable cc in pve -_-).. so if it cant be broken, then templars have an ability that renders a person useless, period, cause when it goes down, you are just going to re-apply it.

It does not stop attacking tho. It just causes damage to you and heal the enemy when you do attack them.

That is basically the same thing that burning embers do. They damage you, and heal the DK.

Now imagine for a moment that burning embers only did this when you attacked the enemy DK who cast it (that would be a huge embers nerf btw.) - would that mean that embers suddenly need to be removable by breaking free?

IMHO, eclipse being removable by breaking free is completely uncalled for. Sure, it damages you when you attack - but then a DOT damages you as well, whether you attack or not(which is worse!) - and that one does not need to be removable by breaking free? Does not make sense.

Break free should remove crowd control, not damaging abilities that do not actually impede your control over your character.

Baconlad

I'm gonna break this skill down for y'all. Just incase some of you didn't know.

Total dark and unstable core have a .5 second cool down. It was MASSIVELY buffed recently. I used to love the old UC morph for the huge 10k burst it provided. I was so upset about the Changes I didn't even slot total dark for the longest time.

After many months of frustration with my maximum damage balls to the walls glass canon setup, I decided to give it one try. And holy shiot. It's amazing.

I get up to 7.5k tics with it, normally my enemies don't see the bubble, or they are in an offensive rotation and don't even realize what's coming. One or two hits in a second is all it takes to have anywhere from 7k-14k damage on you. I've been healed so ur not bursting me while it's up. Smack a javelin or sweeps or dark flare into radiant destruction and ur most likely done. The skill is AMAZING and I normally don't even need a hard CC anymore...which is ok with me.

Please don't Nerf the skill. If you want it nerfed it's because you don't understand how to use it. If you want a close range CC than slot javelin or cry for toppling charge to be changed. Please don't change my total dark. It's the only thing my little glass canon ass gets to keep me alive while on the offensive

Flame_of_Hades

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

I have mixed feelings for this. Its live damage and heal is very handy imo. You can get nice timed burst with it even vs opponents who is breaking instantly, you usualy still get the first tick which is around 4k dmg to non tanky buids. If they really have to gut its dmg, then they should make it unbreakable for the full duration and reduce the cost. Something around 2k dmg per tick is acceptable (after battle spirit).

no... because everything in the game that stops attacking (effectively) is able to be broken.... (pvp, i hate unbreakable cc in pve -_-).. so if it cant be broken, then templars have an ability that renders a person useless, period, cause when it goes down, you are just going to re-apply it.

It does not stop attacking tho. It just causes damage to you and heal the enemy when you do attack them.

That is basically the same thing that burning embers do. They damage you, and heal the DK.

Now imagine for a moment that burning embers only did this when you attacked the enemy DK who cast it (that would be a huge embers nerf btw.) - would that mean that embers suddenly need to be removable by breaking free?

IMHO, eclipse being removable by breaking free is completely uncalled for. Sure, it damages you when you attack - but then a DOT damages you as well, whether you attack or not(which is worse!) - and that one does not need to be removable by breaking free? Does not make sense.

Break free should remove crowd control, not damaging abilities that do not actually impede your control over your character.

burning embers goes off once a second... i get hit with eclipse 2-3 times in a second if volatile is up...
not to mention, that burning embers ticks for about 1-2k if your fighting an enemy with any defense..

as for it not physically stopping you from attacking... if you DON'T stop attacking when this is applied to you, you are dead. period. unless you have a god of a healer behind you. so, it EFFECTIVELY stops attacking.

AND the total dark effect goes off even if you attack someone else... so your burning embers example is null.

Sharee

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

I have mixed feelings for this. Its live damage and heal is very handy imo. You can get nice timed burst with it even vs opponents who is breaking instantly, you usualy still get the first tick which is around 4k dmg to non tanky buids. If they really have to gut its dmg, then they should make it unbreakable for the full duration and reduce the cost. Something around 2k dmg per tick is acceptable (after battle spirit).

no... because everything in the game that stops attacking (effectively) is able to be broken.... (pvp, i hate unbreakable cc in pve -_-).. so if it cant be broken, then templars have an ability that renders a person useless, period, cause when it goes down, you are just going to re-apply it.

It does not stop attacking tho. It just causes damage to you and heal the enemy when you do attack them.

That is basically the same thing that burning embers do. They damage you, and heal the DK.

Now imagine for a moment that burning embers only did this when you attacked the enemy DK who cast it (that would be a huge embers nerf btw.) - would that mean that embers suddenly need to be removable by breaking free?

IMHO, eclipse being removable by breaking free is completely uncalled for. Sure, it damages you when you attack - but then a DOT damages you as well, whether you attack or not(which is worse!) - and that one does not need to be removable by breaking free? Does not make sense.

Break free should remove crowd control, not damaging abilities that do not actually impede your control over your character.

burning embers goes off once a second... i get hit with eclipse 2-3 times in a second if volatile is up...
not to mention, that burning embers ticks for about 1-2k if your fighting an enemy with any defense..

as for it not physically stopping you from attacking... if you DON'T stop attacking when this is applied to you, you are dead. period. unless you have a god of a healer behind you. so, it EFFECTIVELY stops attacking.

I wasn't talking about the amount of damage the abilities do, but about the principle functionality they do. They both heal the enemy, they both do damage to you - why should one be removable by break free while other is not?

Yea, eclipse does more damage than embers - does that mean any DOT that is stronger should be removable by break free? How about a bleed ticking for 3.5K? How about a bleed stack ticking for twice as much? Should that be removable by break free too, on the grounds that it does lots of damage?

Crowd control break should be for crowd control removal, not for the removal of anything that is dangerous to you.

Flame_of_Hades

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

I have mixed feelings for this. Its live damage and heal is very handy imo. You can get nice timed burst with it even vs opponents who is breaking instantly, you usualy still get the first tick which is around 4k dmg to non tanky buids. If they really have to gut its dmg, then they should make it unbreakable for the full duration and reduce the cost. Something around 2k dmg per tick is acceptable (after battle spirit).

no... because everything in the game that stops attacking (effectively) is able to be broken.... (pvp, i hate unbreakable cc in pve -_-).. so if it cant be broken, then templars have an ability that renders a person useless, period, cause when it goes down, you are just going to re-apply it.

It does not stop attacking tho. It just causes damage to you and heal the enemy when you do attack them.

That is basically the same thing that burning embers do. They damage you, and heal the DK.

Now imagine for a moment that burning embers only did this when you attacked the enemy DK who cast it (that would be a huge embers nerf btw.) - would that mean that embers suddenly need to be removable by breaking free?

IMHO, eclipse being removable by breaking free is completely uncalled for. Sure, it damages you when you attack - but then a DOT damages you as well, whether you attack or not(which is worse!) - and that one does not need to be removable by breaking free? Does not make sense.

Break free should remove crowd control, not damaging abilities that do not actually impede your control over your character.

burning embers goes off once a second... i get hit with eclipse 2-3 times in a second if volatile is up...
not to mention, that burning embers ticks for about 1-2k if your fighting an enemy with any defense..

as for it not physically stopping you from attacking... if you DON'T stop attacking when this is applied to you, you are dead. period. unless you have a god of a healer behind you. so, it EFFECTIVELY stops attacking.

I wasn't talking about the amount of damage the abilities do, but about the principle functionality they do. They both heal the enemy, they both do damage to you - why should one be removable by break free while other is not?

Yea, eclipse does more damage than embers - does that mean any DOT that is stronger should be removable by break free? How about a bleed ticking for 3.5K? How about a bleed stack ticking for twice as much? Should that be removable by break free too, on the grounds that it does lots of damage?

Crowd control break should be for crowd control removal, not for the removal of anything that is dangerous to you.

You kinda left out the part where i said that your example was null due too total dark going off no matter who you hit. While burning embers CAN give about 8k health if you let it go for its full time, total dark is a much stronger heal. What is it? 3k or so every time they use a direct damage attack?

Bleeds are broken and need a big nerf, but balancing abilities should never be taken as "this is broken, so i should be broken!"

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

Datolite

Arthalion1 wrote: »

@Joy_Division The OP asks for an ability to be buffed so that he can permanently disable another player, for the reasons I pointed out and I need to L2P? Hmmm...

Plus it's either a CC or it isn't. I can't see why you can be stunned while subject to total dark, which players use by casting dark then immediately using toppling charge.

One CC just replaces another in that case. You still only need ONE CC break if they do that. Most competent players will break immediately upon seeing the black bubble. Like you would with any other CC. So yeah this is a L2P issue.

Sharee

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Flame_of_Hades

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

Sharee

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

Thogard

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Arthalion1 wrote: »

@Solariken I'm moving to stamplar, so I can look at myself in the mirror. I think magplars will be everywhere when this patch goes live and will be nerfed again in three months when zos realise the error in their ways.

I was winning 1v3, sometimes 1v4, before the last two patches, which both buffed magplars. I'm really confused by people who think magplar is weak. I do have clips on my Xbox feed, not just talking the talk.

Well you see, the people who dont think magplars are good are on PC where hardly anyone who plays a magplar is actually good. So really it makes alot of sense.

Most high lvl players on PC know that magplars can be insane duelers.

It’s their mobility that they have problems with. That prevents them from excelling on the openworld and 1vX. Furthermore it’s a very lag-sensitive class..

On console the players aren’t mobile anyway and everyone lags all the time anyway, so the magplar handicaps aren’t unique to the magplar.

Thogard

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

DKs would like a word with you lol.

ATomiX96

what do you mean worst CC, you put bubble on them and they cant go on the offensive until they Break Free from it... its just like every other stun as well and especially against new people which dont know the game that well its insane, they keep attacking through it and kill themselves while healing you. And against experienced players you can also see when they are about to burst you put a bubble on them and deny the burst-attempt. Its definitly good skill imo.
As far as Templar CC options go, spear is also Buggy AF you can sometimes CC people twice or three-times while they have CC immunity up its complete BS.
And lets not get started on purifying light / potl. Even though they are not CC they are just insane.
Maybe not as much in 1v1 because you can predict it and the opponent might not stack up all the damage for max proc but when you get zerged down and have mutliple instances of potl / purifying light on you well then its a pain in the ass

Minno

Imagine if these spells were self buffs instead of CC's?

Stigant

If I have to break free and spend stamina to cleanse effect, I should get CC immunity, I see no reason why should anyone be able to force me to drain my resources by making me break free more often than after my immunity after the first break free wears off.

Flame_of_Hades

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

What about "Effectively" do you not understand?

Sharee

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

What about "Effectively" do you not understand?

Eclipse does not 100% prevent people from attacking, effectively or otherwise.

If i have eclipse on me and you are at 5% life, you can bet i'll effectively execute your ass, eclipse or not.

Neoauspex

Eclipse only fires on direct damage. You can continue to attack with half the skills in the game and not bother to cc break.

Flame_of_Hades

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

What about "Effectively" do you not understand?

Eclipse does not 100% prevent people from attacking, effectively or otherwise.

If i have eclipse on me and you are at 5% life, you can bet i'll effectively execute your ass, eclipse or not.

That's not when you are going to apply an eclipse to someone, you are going to do it when you are fairly full on health and you see someone going for a burst. if you put eclipse on someone while you are at 5% health, you deserve to die. Eclipse prevents decent players from attacking, because they know that if they do, they will likely die. thus, it prevents attacking. (a bad player is just going to kill themselves with it, so you win.) Without the ability to stun break this ability, you can force players on the defense 100% of the time. You don't win a fight without attacking, and you don't lose a fight without taking meaningful damage.

Neoauspex wrote: »

Eclipse only fires on direct damage. You can continue to attack with half the skills in the game and not bother to cc break.

the application of *almost* all abilities counts as direct damage. dots and a.o.e aren't supposed to be direct damage, but with dots, the application is, and with a.o.e.... its up in the air, you have about a 50/50 shot of it being counted as direct damage.

Waffennacht

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

What about "Effectively" do you not understand?

Eclipse does not 100% prevent people from attacking, effectively or otherwise.

If i have eclipse on me and you are at 5% life, you can bet i'll effectively execute your ass, eclipse or not.

Not if you also have 5% health. If you're at 5% health (lol @ 1k) then you'll die when you cast any attack.

From what I can tell you could be at 25% health and have eclipse (total dark which ever) would still kill you.

Making it require a CC break with 0 immunity is really really bad idea

Either remake it independent of immunity etc or keep it as is. But a Mish mash of Stam drain + re cast + another CC is redonkulous

Sharee

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

What about "Effectively" do you not understand?

Eclipse does not 100% prevent people from attacking, effectively or otherwise.

If i have eclipse on me and you are at 5% life, you can bet i'll effectively execute your ass, eclipse or not.

Not if you also have 5% health. If you're at 5% health (lol @ 1k) then you'll die when you cast any attack.

I'm not going to argue when it is a good idea to attack while eclipsed and when not.

My point is simply that it *is* possible to attack while eclipsed, and there *are* situations where you would do so, despite what some here would have you believe.

Joy_Division

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

I have mixed feelings for this. Its live damage and heal is very handy imo. You can get nice timed burst with it even vs opponents who is breaking instantly, you usualy still get the first tick which is around 4k dmg to non tanky buids. If they really have to gut its dmg, then they should make it unbreakable for the full duration and reduce the cost. Something around 2k dmg per tick is acceptable (after battle spirit).

no... because everything in the game that stops attacking (effectively) is able to be broken.... (pvp, i hate unbreakable cc in pve -_-).. so if it cant be broken, then templars have an ability that renders a person useless, period, cause when it goes down, you are just going to re-apply it.

It does not stop attacking tho. It just causes damage to you and heal the enemy when you do attack them.

That is basically the same thing that burning embers do. They damage you, and heal the DK.

Now imagine for a moment that burning embers only did this when you attacked the enemy DK who cast it (that would be a huge embers nerf btw.) - would that mean that embers suddenly need to be removable by breaking free?

IMHO, eclipse being removable by breaking free is completely uncalled for. Sure, it damages you when you attack - but then a DOT damages you as well, whether you attack or not(which is worse!) - and that one does not need to be removable by breaking free? Does not make sense.

Break free should remove crowd control, not damaging abilities that do not actually impede your control over your character.

burning embers goes off once a second... i get hit with eclipse 2-3 times in a second if volatile is up...
not to mention, that burning embers ticks for about 1-2k if your fighting an enemy with any defense..

as for it not physically stopping you from attacking... if you DON'T stop attacking when this is applied to you, you are dead. period. unless you have a god of a healer behind you. so, it EFFECTIVELY stops attacking.

I wasn't talking about the amount of damage the abilities do, but about the principle functionality they do. They both heal the enemy, they both do damage to you - why should one be removable by break free while other is not?

Yea, eclipse does more damage than embers - does that mean any DOT that is stronger should be removable by break free? How about a bleed ticking for 3.5K? How about a bleed stack ticking for twice as much? Should that be removable by break free too, on the grounds that it does lots of damage?

Crowd control break should be for crowd control removal, not for the removal of anything that is dangerous to you.

You kinda left out the part where i said that your example was null due too total dark going off no matter who you hit. While burning embers CAN give about 8k health if you let it go for its full time, total dark is a much stronger heal. What is it? 3k or so every time they use a direct damage attack?

Bleeds are broken and need a big nerf, but balancing abilities should never be taken as "this is broken, so i should be broken!"

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

It's such a great CC that when you actually want to CC a player (e.g. they are moving to a place you don;t want them to go), it is totally EFFECTIVE right?

Flame_of_Hades

Thogard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

As i already stated, total dark IS a crowd control, because CC prevents attacking, and total dark EFFECTIVELY prevents attacking. Yes, it does not physically stop an enemy from hitting you, but the heal + damage that results from that attack have the effect forcing you to stop attacking, thus making it a CC....

There is a difference between having the option to attack and suffer the consequences, discouraging action, without taking away your control of your character, and preventing action, by taking away said control. The latter is crowd control. The former is not.

Both have the effect of stopping attacks... What you want is the ability to 100% prevent people from attacking you in a fight.... which is broken....

It does not 100% prevent people from attacking, that's the point. They still have the choice of attacking(and suffering the consequences), or not attacking. There are situations where you would choose to attack despite of having eclipse on you. As opposed to actual CC, which takes away that choice.

DKs would like a word with you lol.

this, i cant say it any better. I already said i was biased in this. Taking away counter play is NEVER a good idea.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Funny thing is that this is one of the only abilities in the game (can only think of ice staff mag blocking) which is negatively affected by the passives.

Increased duration of solar abilities increases the time before the explosion and there are no damage gains so it's just straight lower dps