Templar ability: Unstable core on CC timer

fullheartcontainer

Why is this ability on a CC timer? Templars have the worst class CC as is, and then we have an ability that is neither a hard nor soft CC, but it can only work on people who aren't CC immune. This seems insane. I guess the argument is "Oh, well because it forces people to decide between attacking you and taking damage, or backing off and purging", but plenty of other abilities go on target that can cause damage and are purgeable but don't count as CC, like Power of the Light.

This ability should be able to be used regardless of CC immunity.

Minno

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

Why is this ability on a CC timer? Templars have the worst class CC as is, and then we have an ability that is neither a hard nor soft CC, but it can only work on people who aren't CC immune. This seems insane. I guess the argument is "Oh, well because it forces people to decide between attacking you and taking damage, or backing off and purging", but plenty of other abilities go on target that can cause damage and are purgeable but don't count as CC, like Power of the Light.

This ability should be able to be used regardless of CC immunity.

I think they figured we have ALOT of damage dealing options so why not just add the soft CC component.

I agree why you are angry it works this way; I loved old UC before they messed with it and agree that it should return to be a potent burst or have a buff/debuff added when the cc immunity is in play (so you can counter immovable pot builds as well).

Flame_of_Hades

before they do that,in order to be balanced it needs to have a big damage nerf. getting hit with 5k ticks from this ability is not fun, and taking away counter play is NEVER a good idea.

Minno

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

before they do that,in order to be balanced it needs to have a big damage nerf. getting hit with 5k ticks from this ability is not fun, and taking away counter play is NEVER a good idea.

It actually did get a dmg nerf when they changed it. You used to hit 10k+ burst on the time bomb pre-morrowind without major effort. Now you need 22% into master of arms, 3600-3800 SD 35k max mag minimum to see that number return to pre--morrowind numbers.

id rather the cc get removed and replaced with a target debuff (minor maim) with the burst returned to pre-morrowind numbers (in addition to being unblocked/undodgeable).

Edit:

and by "cc removed" I mean take away the dmg component via procs against direct attacks done to you along with the cc immunity granted to your target with UC on it. This way the spell can return to being a delayed time bomb with debuffs as per the original intent for the skilline.

Xeniph

I completely agree this ability is lackluster.

It really always has been. I have always though when this was casted on me "Right on, thanks for the CC immunity"

However, believe it or not there are people who don't break this. Albeit really new players. I have found the best use is to throw it on a stam sorc or a DK because you will always get a tic or 2 off Hurricane and Volatile Armor.

With that said, I don't think this skill should give CC immunity, nor be unusable on someone immune, but it should still require a break to get rid of.

Either way, the ability should have SOME use and be castable even if the target is CC immune.

I am always torn between this ability and Time Stop.

idk

It is essentialy a CC being that they cannot do any single target attacks. Besides that, one could force a player to drain all their stam by merely casting that over and over if there was no CC immunity.

Arthalion1

Are you being serious? This is a ridiculously overpowered ability as it is. You either have to break free, do nothing and run away or die to your own damage when this is active.

To make things worse, you can actually still be stunned while this is active and then essentially have to break free twice!

This needs a nerf, or at least give cc immunity to stuns as soon as it is applied.

Magplars are very op right now and have just been buffed. It amazes me that you could still come on the forums asking for further buffs to a broken ability.

Solariken

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

Syiccal

it's doesn't cc any ways, I am still required to use dawn breaker to actually knock down and apply a hard cc, it is a powerfull skill as it forces players to stop through their burst to break allowing time to recover.
it's needs some immunity timer other wise I could throw it out constantly and be immune to all single target dmg, especially in BG where ppl generally don't have the stam to break free from it.
To be fair also the players that use this KNOW you can reapply this skill to the same target before it's expired any ways , essentially having it on target more than it should be any way

Arthalion1

Syiccal wrote: »

it's doesn't cc any ways

It doesn't offer CC immunity, in that you can still be stunned while it is active. You then have to break free twice. Once to clear the stun, once to clear total dark. This cannot be intended.

@zos please arrange a fix asap.

Arthalion1

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

it's doesn't cc any ways

It doesn't offer CC immunity, in that you can still be stunned while it is active. You then have to break free twice. Once to clear the stun, once to clear total dark. This cannot be intended.

@zos please arrange a fix asap.

Not sure if that worked @ZOS_GinaBruno

Minno

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

it's doesn't cc any ways

It doesn't offer CC immunity, in that you can still be stunned while it is active. You then have to break free twice. Once to clear the stun, once to clear total dark. This cannot be intended.

@zos please arrange a fix asap.

Not sure if that worked @ZOS_GinaBruno

I think that's a bug for CC's in general. Ive had to break free twice for things like draining shot.

Eclipse currently lets you recast the bubble to extend the duration but then it will force the spell to ride out the duration on the second cast. Usually a break free off a cc removes the bubble entirely, so I am not sure what other problem you are running into (except buggy hard CC's like draining shot/javelin that are terrible to recover from anyway).

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should cut the proc damage/healing in half and remove the CC component entirely.

IDK. Missed opportunity for tank based debuff that could help templar out. Id love to get minor maim and the unblockable burst spell without any CC control.

And a dirty shame total dark scales off mag stats instead of your highest; stamplar misses out on this ability for defensive cc use.

Syiccal

I agree it's not nearly as bad to break as draining shot

The_Brosteen

It reflects damage you do, so in order to provide some sort of counterplay you need to be able to purge or break free from it. Ever use a dot build? That bubble is absurd. Can you imagine being able to have 100% uptime on a move that reflects your opponents attacks and heals you? That'd be stupid broken.

Joy_Division

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Are you being serious? This is a ridiculously overpowered ability as it is. You either have to break free, do nothing and run away or die to your own damage when this is active.

To make things worse, you can actually still be stunned while this is active and then essentially have to break free twice!

This needs a nerf, or at least give cc immunity to stuns as soon as it is applied.

Magplars are very op right now and have just been buffed. It amazes me that you could still come on the forums asking for further buffs to a broken ability.

While I do not agree with the OP's assessment, what you are saying here is a classic L2P issue. This ability is feast or famine and it only feasts on players who don't want to break free.

Yes, you have to break free or your screwed. It's a common concept. Rune Cage, Fossilize, and Fear function exactly the same way. Oh wait they don't. Rune Cage, Fossilize, and Fear also remove a player's ability to control their character, something Unstable Core does not do.

You're complaining about a rare occurrence brought about either by user-error (i.e. I refuse to break free, instead I'm going to the forums and tag ZOS for nerfs) or getting zerged down. But fair enough, if you want ZOS to remove this corner-case, I could get behind that IF - IF - ZOS also addresses the far more common famine aspect of this spell: a templar could cast this ability (specifically the Total Dark morph) and absolutely nothing determinate happens to the target at all.

Arthalion1

@Joy_Division The OP asks for an ability to be buffed so that he can permanently disable another player, for the reasons I pointed out and I need to L2P? Hmmm...

Plus it's either a CC or it isn't. I can't see why you can be stunned while subject to total dark, which players use by casting dark then immediately using toppling charge.

Joy_Division

Arthalion1 wrote: »

@Joy_Division The OP asks for an ability to be buffed so that he can permanently disable another player, for the reasons I pointed out and I need to L2P? Hmmm...

Plus it's either a CC or it isn't. I can't see why you can be stunned while subject to total dark, which players use by casting dark then immediately using toppling charge.

OK...

Joy_Division wrote: »

While I do not agree with the OP's assessment

How can I be more clear?

Yes, you need to L2P if you think:

Arthalion1 wrote: »

This is a ridiculously overpowered ability as it is. You either have to break free, do nothing and run away or die to your own damage when this is active.

and

Magplars are very op right now.

The whole either "break free" or "do nothing and die" conundrum isn't all that hard to deal with and is L2P. Break free. Or cleanse. Or use a synergy that cleanses. Or have a teammate purge it off. There, now Magplars are no longer very OP.

How does a Magplar do two actions (Eclipse then charge) before you only do one?

But rather than CC breaking or using one of the other counters and rendering this skill impotent, you're on these forums tagging ZOS devs for nerfs.

Also

Joy_Division wrote: »

But fair enough, if you want ZOS to remove this corner-case, I could get behind that IF - IF - ZOS also addresses the far more common famine aspect of this spell: a templar could cast this ability (specifically the Total Dark morph) and absolutely nothing determinate happens to the target at all.

Exactly where I am disagreeing with your complaint again?

Arthalion1

I'm not going to argue any further. I have a magplar, which is close to invincible. In fact I stopped playing it because it felt too dirty. If you don't think magplars are op, then I think it is you that needs to l2p.

Solariken

Arthalion1 wrote: »

I'm not going to argue any further. I have a magplar, which is close to invincible. In fact I stopped playing it because it felt too dirty. If you don't think magplars are op, then I think it is you that needs to l2p.

There is a specific type of setup for magplar that is insanely OP and yes nearly unkillable. I agree it feels dirty to play and I'm pretty sure it's what has held the class back from buff/rework for so long. This type of magplar was weakened only by the speed meta. I fear we're about to see it rear it's ugly head once again.

Arthalion1

@Solariken I'm moving to stamplar, so I can look at myself in the mirror. I think magplars will be everywhere when this patch goes live and will be nerfed again in three months when zos realise the error in their ways.

I was winning 1v3, sometimes 1v4, before the last two patches, which both buffed magplars. I'm really confused by people who think magplar is weak. I do have clips on my Xbox feed, not just talking the talk.

Syiccal

shhhhh,, first rule of magplar is don't talk about magplar

Flame_of_Hades

1. im all for this ability not giving cc immunity, but only if zos implements a system where players it is applied to get a specific "total dark immunity". the ability to spam this on one person would be stupid broken.

2. as a mag dk main, this ability is the bane of my existence. having the damage proc off my volatile armor HURTS. not to mention, some times it bugs out and procs off my dots, which is makes it hit for almost 20k before i can break it.

in short, this ability isn't broken (except against certain builds, RIP, but that is balance), but it is definitely not under powered due to its forcing people to stun break or die/take a lot of damage, just like every other cc in the game.

fullheartcontainer

idk wrote: »

It is essentialy a CC being that they cannot do any single target attacks. Besides that, one could force a player to drain all their stam by merely casting that over and over if there was no CC immunity.

Oh, you mean like the dragon knight fossilize/talons juggle?

fullheartcontainer

after reading people responses, my opinion is that the ability should be either

1. Changed into a true CC move and either have the damage brought down heavily or removed
2. Changed into a self reflect ability, which seems to be a mirror of the original intention of the ability

Sharee

At some time in the past, this ability used to be unbreakable for a couple of patches. It still couldn't be cast on CC-immune targets, and itself applied CC immunity when it expired (so it couldn't be immediately reapplied), but it wasn't "free CC immunity" like the current version. Dunno why they changed it (i dont even remember reading it in any patch notes).

NBrookus

Hardly any players know what to do when bubbled, but it's a feast or famine skill. When you encounter someone who does, you are basically hamstrung for having it taking up a bar slot.

The interaction of this skill with the DK armor buff is something that needs to be fixed.

The_Brosteen wrote: »

It reflects damage you do, so in order to provide some sort of counterplay you need to be able to purge or break free from it. Ever use a dot build? That bubble is absurd. Can you imagine being able to have 100% uptime on a move that reflects your opponents attacks and heals you? That'd be stupid broken.

It's not a reflect anymore. It does a fixed amount of damage to the target when they do direct damage with the bubble up, based on the magplar's damage.

Kadoin

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

Why is this ability on a CC timer? Templars have the worst class CC as is, and then we have an ability that is neither a hard nor soft CC, but it can only work on people who aren't CC immune. This seems insane. I guess the argument is "Oh, well because it forces people to decide between attacking you and taking damage, or backing off and purging", but plenty of other abilities go on target that can cause damage and are purgeable but don't count as CC, like Power of the Light.

This ability should be able to be used regardless of CC immunity.

I don't even slot it on my mag or hybrid templar. Seems like a wasted slot.

IZZEFlameLash

It's quite strong as is already. I crit'd someone for nearly 10k with it hah. Dunno what the person was wearing but 5k~10k per tick is strong. It maybe a feast or famine but it is strong. If you can spam this the entire time without CC immunity preventing, it will be just be flat out OP.

Minno

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It's quite strong as is already. I crit'd someone for nearly 10k with it hah. Dunno what the person was wearing but 5k~10k per tick is strong. It maybe a feast or famine but it is strong. If you can spam this the entire time without CC immunity preventing, it will be just be flat out OP.

You made a pug eat his own light attack with his pve build lol.

IZZEFlameLash

Minno wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It's quite strong as is already. I crit'd someone for nearly 10k with it hah. Dunno what the person was wearing but 5k~10k per tick is strong. It maybe a feast or famine but it is strong. If you can spam this the entire time without CC immunity preventing, it will be just be flat out OP.

You made a pug eat his own light attack with his pve build lol.

Basically. Lol. It was fun and satisfying for me. Probably the receiving end was 'wtf'. I wonder what I can do with Eclipse morphs with proper damage build though.