You are addressing all the problems people point out except...

bpmachete

Bleeds and the ability to spin to win.

Maybe you can fix that bleed can Crit, since it's so powerful and goes through all resistances and even makes vampires and shields bleed, you could take off it's ability to crit? What is a crit bleed anyway? It burst an artery or now a shield vein?

Also for the spin to win, don't let this undodgeable AOE execute count as a melee attack as this lets it be benefited from the Orc melee passive, and maybe an increased cost would curb the current just repeatedly hit that button meta that came as soon as you made it undodgeable. An undodgeable AoE in all directions execute with huge range and spamability... please look into it, game looks like a balet dance sometimes.

NyassaV

bpmachete wrote: »

Bleeds and the ability to spin to win.

Maybe you can fix that bleed can Crit, since it's so powerful and goes through all resistances and even makes vampires and shields bleed, you could take off it's ability to crit? What is a crit bleed anyway? It burst an artery or now a shield vein?

Also for the spin to win, don't let this undodgeable AOE execute count as a melee attack as this lets it be benefited from the Orc melee passive, and maybe an increased cost would curb the current just repeatedly hit that button meta that came as soon as you made it undodgeable. An undodgeable AoE execute with huge range and spamability... please look into it, game looks like a balet dance sometimes.

You forgot snipe

Koolio

bpmachete wrote: »

Bleeds and the ability to spin to win.

Maybe you can fix that bleed can Crit, since it's so powerful and goes through all resistances and even makes vampires and shields bleed, you could take off it's ability to crit? What is a crit bleed anyway? It burst an artery or now a shield vein?

Also for the spin to win, don't let this undodgeable AOE execute count as a melee attack as this lets it be benefited from the Orc melee passive, and maybe an increased cost would curb the current just repeatedly hit that button meta that came as soon as you made it undodgeable. An undodgeable AoE execute with huge range and spamability... please look into it, game looks like a balet dance sometimes.

They nerfed the range during Dark Brotherhood and Nobody used it anymore. That same time AOE were made undodgeable with the exception of Steel Tornado for some reason. It was then made to be like every other Aoe in the game. Now it needs a nerf lol. Was broken now working as intended.

GreenHere

I would be in favor of a cost increase to Steel Tornado, and also possibly a radius decrease by 1 meter. The area it covers is stupid large. There should be more of a tradeoff than there is.

What I don't want to see happen is them also kill Whirling Blades (the other morph). It's fine, imo. The small range seems appropriate.

bpmachete

NyassaV wrote: »

You forgot snipe

I don't know if they are capable of fixing this ability. Ever since the new patch where you get stunned before the meteor falls, before you get hit by the abilities has made Snipe so broken it might be beyond repair. It now snuns you before it hits like all other ranged stuns since Summerset but also allows for all the smipes to hit at once, not show your health being down and then erases your character...

bpmachete

Koolio wrote: »

They nerfed the range during Dark Brotherhood and Nobody used it anymore. That same time AOE were made undodgeable with the exception of Steel Tornado for some reason. It was then made to be like every other Aoe in the game. Now it needs a nerf lol. Was broken now working as intended.

Maybe because its supposed to be small projectiles being thrown around that should be able to be dodged unlike a magical fire 🔥 whilwind...

I am not 100% sure but I believe it procs weapon enchants or bleeds as well even though the axes are not hitting you, and I'm 100% sure it gets buffed by the Orc passive for melee. The morph without the increased range is fine, but the other should be dodgeable but if not then it should not count as a melee attack.

ll_Rev

bpmachete wrote: »

Bleeds and the ability to spin to win.

Maybe you can fix that bleed can Crit, since it's so powerful and goes through all resistances and even makes vampires and shields bleed, you could take off it's ability to crit? What is a crit bleed anyway? It burst an artery or now a shield vein?

Also for the spin to win, don't let this undodgeable AOE execute count as a melee attack as this lets it be benefited from the Orc melee passive, and maybe an increased cost would curb the current just repeatedly hit that button meta that came as soon as you made it undodgeable. An undodgeable AoE execute with huge range and spamability... please look into it, game looks like a balet dance sometimes.

There’d be no point to running dw if you nerf it’s defining skill. It Would just force stamina builds back into 2h bow.

HankTwo

I was hoping they would address bleeds, especially the passive 2h and dw bleed procs as well as master dual wield twin slashes being able to crit people. Maybe next time then

mojomood

Bleeds are like all their fixes to tanks in PvP. They make broken sets/procs/DoTs that work on tanks, but also on everyone else. Sloads was supposed to counter tanks, but was too strong against everyone. Same is true of bleeds. Removing crits makes tanks stronger. IMO, the fix to all damage that bypasses resistance is to make it % based on the targets health, like knight slayer. Knight Slayer is effective, but only really effective against tanking targets. Give all damage that surpasses all resistance the same treatment.

Nicalas

bpmachete wrote: »

Bleeds and the ability to spin to win.

Maybe you can fix that bleed can Crit, since it's so powerful and goes through all resistances and even makes vampires and shields bleed, you could take off it's ability to crit? What is a crit bleed anyway? It burst an artery or now a shield vein?

Also for the spin to win, don't let this undodgeable AOE execute count as a melee attack as this lets it be benefited from the Orc melee passive, and maybe an increased cost would curb the current just repeatedly hit that button meta that came as soon as you made it undodgeable. An undodgeable AoE in all directions execute with huge range and spamability... please look into it, game looks like a balet dance sometimes.

They already nerfed Spin. It's called Major Evasion.

bpmachete

Nicalas wrote: »

They already nerfed Spin. It's called Major Evasion.

Not everyone uses that buff.

Thogard

snipe got buffed since major evasion no longer applies to it.
spin2win got nerfed since major evasion now reduces it substantially.

Mazbt

IMO nerfing the range is a bad idea. That's what sets it apart from the unmorphed version and the other morph. Would like the damage to scale off of number of players maybe capping at 6? Will be weak against one guy (super strong right now if they're low health) and maybe scale it up so it's a bit stronger than it is currently when hitting 6 or more people.

NBs and all stam classes (esp medium variants) have easy access to major evasion and mag builds will probably need to consider backbaring DW just for blade cloak. Might be better to consider just using the abilities given than nerfing steel tornado actually so what i said above might not be too relevant.

bpmachete

Yesterday I was on my regular ol Stam Sorc ( overload bar ) and my friend was on a magicka nightblade. We fought a group if about 5 most stam sorcs with some stam wardens. All they did was get close and spam spin to win. I have a good character and was kiten' them around IC (only one swift ring and 2 robust ) with tripots on cooldown ermhh and I still did ok was fighting them got a couple of them, but everytime my friend came close he had no counter to their group balet dance. I could heal through it, block in spots, vigor dark deal, but no counter play for him, he would have no cloak or roll dodge.

The execute part of it too, most abilities that execute have some counter play. Imagine Sap Essence was a scaling execute, there would be no counter play once you are low. So the execute aspect of it is a guaranteed kill unless blocking which would still proc the bleeds and enchants (i'm pretty sure it does). When you execute a player under normal circumstances with executioner, or any other execute the guy has at least a chance to roll dodge. So when they made this undodgeable it lost all counter play and thats why you get 5 dudes in their pink tutus just stacking on eachother dancing, and eventually they will cheese people to death, nothing a non tanky player can do, and the tanky guys get bleed procs while they spam you.

Just saying, it sux kinda bad. Like we are in a sword fight and you got Mr. Anna Pavlova, Mr. Rudolf Nureyev, Mr. Diana Vishneva and crew with their classical music on shredding everything up. Make them offbalance at least, some counterplay I don't know what...

Feanor

Thogard wrote: »

snipe got buffed since major evasion no longer applies to it.
spin2win got nerfed since major evasion now reduces it substantially.

Who had a problem with spin2win before? Magicka Builds. Who hasn’t Major Evasion on class skills? Magicka Builds (except NB).

bpmachete

Yeah magicka nightblade was toast vs the ballet dance crew.

Gilvoth

in the title of this thread you said

"You are addressing all the problems people point out"

that statement is not true.

lucky_dutch

Spin2Win is only viable because Heavy Armor is OP relative to other armor types. Mag Shields were a bandage covering up the problem and now they're being ripped-off it's plain for all to see.

Fix the root problem, not the symptom. Buff light armor survivability options vs melee classes. I'd personally look at kiting (i.e. avoidance) rather than shielding or healing.

bpmachete

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in the title of this thread you said

"You are addressing all the problems people point out"

that statement is not true.

Yea of course, not all the problems, it is not the perfect title... I was hoping people would point out the things they are not addressing.

BigBadVolk

bpmachete wrote: »

Bleeds and the ability to spin to win.

Maybe you can fix that bleed can Crit, since it's so powerful and goes through all resistances and even makes vampires and shields bleed, you could take off it's ability to crit? What is a crit bleed anyway? It burst an artery or now a shield vein?

Also for the spin to win, don't let this undodgeable AOE execute count as a melee attack as this lets it be benefited from the Orc melee passive, and maybe an increased cost would curb the current just repeatedly hit that button meta that came as soon as you made it undodgeable. An undodgeable AoE in all directions execute with huge range and spamability... please look into it, game looks like a balet dance sometimes.

I'd also add 7th and fury two big reasons for stam to abandon med

bpmachete

BigBadVolk wrote: »

I'd also add 7th and fury two big reasons for stam to abandon med

I'm ok with it if they want to play this play style. They don't have crazy recovery and Forward momentum, swift and speedpots are getting nerfed. It's ok to get massive weapon damage if you are getting beat on by a bunch of players. These players don't even have to follow that guy and hit him so many times they can back away and let him kite the tower while they go and keep attacking keeps.

I think those crazy damage combo players are awesome, it's good if they can fight outnumbered, but I dislike that they have an undodgeable spammable attack that is so corny. It was fine when they recked people with Reverse slice etc.

Their stamina is not so high with those sets, and they don't get the high weapon damage boost of Medium nor the passives. They are built exactly what those sets are for, straight up brawlers that will tank damage heal and fight groups... so if they revert the spin to win BS and get back to having to execute with some skill it will be awesome again. Also there is no counter exept blocking. How many damn daggers can they throw when they spin? No way to dodge anything? It's corny to see brawlers dancing like ballerinas.

bpmachete

Again it makes sence to not be able to dodge sap essence, and Grothdar and other abilities like it, but this one should be dodgeable, it's as plain as day, it's an ranged execute 360 spammable AOE...

bpmachete

Also with the new dodge changes it won't be as easy to dodge anyway

BigBadVolk

bpmachete wrote: »

BigBadVolk wrote: »

I'd also add 7th and fury two big reasons for stam to abandon med

I'm ok with it if they want to play this play style. They don't have crazy recovery and Forward momentum, swift and speedpots are getting nerfed. It's ok to get massive weapon damage if you are getting beat on by a bunch of players. These players don't even have to follow that guy and hit him so many times they can back away and let him kite the tower while they go and keep attacking keeps.

I think those crazy damage combo players are awesome, it's good if they can fight outnumbered, but I dislike that they have an undodgeable spammable attack that is so corny. It was fine when they recked people with Reverse slice etc.

Their stamina is not so high with those sets, and they don't get the high weapon damage boost of Medium nor the passives. They are built exactly what those sets are for, straight up brawlers that will tank damage heal and fight groups... so if they revert the spin to win BS and get back to having to execute with some skill it will be awesome again. Also there is no counter exept blocking. How many damn daggers can they throw when they spin? No way to dodge anything? It's corny to see brawlers dancing like ballerinas.

Agree tbh, personally I either want a magicka version of those sets, or at least one of them converted to med or smth, or some deff buff to light and med even though next patch I'm afraid to go Heavy with my magblade cause of the over speed nerf