Shuffle Reduce Cost Please

mr_wazzabi

At almost 4k stamina cost to activate, this skill costs more than blade cloak, which also gives the aoe protection buff with added damage and forward momentum, which has a longer snare immunity and gives major brutality plus a hot.

Shuffle needs its cost reduced to match these 2 skills. Its snare immunity should also match forward momentum.

@ZOS_GINA_BRUNO

@masel92 has this been discussed in the class rep meetings?

leepalmer95

Yes

Reduce cost and base 5s snare immunity which is increased by 0.5s per medium piece.

So the squishy medium build actually has better mobility.

mr_wazzabi

Yes

@masel92 has this been discussed in the class rep meetings?

jcm2606

Yes

I've gone over the cost extensively on other threads, comparing the stamina cost of maintaining Shuffle's snare immunity for 40 seconds, versus Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak. Forward Momentum + Blade Cloak came out to be 2.5x cheaper than Shuffle to maintain the snare immunity over 40 seconds on my PVP 5/1/1 medium armour stamDK. Shuffle absolutely needs its cost reduced, and the duration should be increased.

Masel

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

@masel92 has this been discussed in the class rep meetings?

As far as i remember, we discussed shuffle and forward momentum and that one is far better than the other one, especially in terms of cost. But it might've been in one of the internal rep meetings, i'm not sure

mr_wazzabi

Yes

Masel92 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

@masel92 has this been discussed in the class rep meetings?

As far as i remember, we discussed shuffle and forward momentum and that one is far better than the other one, especially in terms of cost. But it might've been in one of the internal rep meetings, i'm not sure

@masel92
Did they state a reason for their reluctance to reduce the cost?

olsborg

Yes

But, id rather see a buff to the snare immunity. Like 8s or so would just about do it.

BaylorCorvette

Yes

Cost would be fine if snare immunity was longer. But if they don't increase snare immunity then cost def needs to come down. I currently run FM in my medium PvP builds because of how good it is.

Solariken

Yes

Yes, reduce the cost AND the duration of Major Evasion.

RebornV3x

Other. Please explain

we should reduce the cost yes but in doing so we need to add a 1 sec cast time just to make sure its balanced and in line with other skills.

Zelos

Other. Please explain

Keep the cost but just extend the snare immunity to 1 second per medium piece ffs. Although if not then just reduce its cost, great idea.

TimeDazzler

Yes

Shuffle 3.8k stamina, requires 5 medium, removes snares for 3 seconds.
Wings 3.5k magicka, dragonknight only, removes snares for 2 seconds.
Forward momentum 2.6k stamina, anyone with 2H, removes snares for 8 seconds.

Do you not see the issue? How is that balanced? I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Either increase shuffle to 5 seconds immunity or bring down forward momentum to 5 seconds and increase cost. Also, increase wings to 3 seconds of immunity, and add snare removal but not immunity to streak and morphs.

Cinbri

No

No need to make okay skill into OP one just to ensure it will be nerfed-hammered next update. Change to evazion buff will help a lot next update as counter to aoe that is melting medium style easily. In term of snare immunity - it should be Momentum to be turned down, without providing immunity for 100% time.

mr_wazzabi

Yes

Cinbri wrote: »

No need to make okay skill into OP one just to ensure it will be nerfed-hammered next update. Change to evazion buff will help a lot next update as counter to aoe that is melting medium style easily. In term of snare immunity - it should be Momentum to be turned down, without providing immunity for 100% time.

Why use this over blade cloak with forward momentum?

Cinbri

No

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

No need to make okay skill into OP one just to ensure it will be nerfed-hammered next update. Change to evazion buff will help a lot next update as counter to aoe that is melting medium style easily. In term of snare immunity - it should be Momentum to be turned down, without providing immunity for 100% time.

Why use this over blade cloak with forward momentum?

Well, no reason till zos understand that momentum is overperforming and will tone it down. It not Shuffle weak but Momentum too strong, as it currently goes in discussion of swift trait.

idk

No

So Shuffle costs 3715 stam for 23 seconds of major evasion and adds snare immunity for up to 3.5 seconds which is very powerful buff.

Quick cloak costs 3251 stam for 15 seconds of major evasion and momentum for 5 seconds plus a little bit of damage.

Seems like a great set of choices and the costs seems more fair when looked at it appropriately.,

Edi: I did not see the third skill mentioned. I had not seen the costs of shuffle or quick cloak causing me issues before.

jcm2606

Yes

idk wrote: »

Either I misunderstand or OP is painting an incorrect picture of blade cloak. I probably misunderstand OP. But sets the difference between the two skills below to make sure.

So I will just ask, since when does blade cloak grant snare immunity? it grants major momentum, major evasion and does a little damage. It also lasts only 15 seconds compared to shuffle's duration of 20 seconds.

So Shuffle costs 3715 stam for 23 seconds of major evasion and adds snare immunity for up to 3.5 seconds which is very powerful buff.

Quick cloak costs 3251 stam for 15 seconds of major evasion and momentum for 5 seconds plus a little bit of damage.

Seems like a great set of choices and the costs seems more fair when looked at it appropriately.,

BTW, I do not recall forward momentum granting snare immunity if what is what Waz is suggesting.

"Forward Momentum: Cost: 2971 Stamina.

Focus your strength to gain Major Brutality, increasing your Weapon Damage by 20% for 33 seconds.

You heal for 282 Health every 2 seconds while active.

Activating this ability removes all snares and immobilizations from you and grants immunity to them for [5 / 6 / 7 / 8] seconds."

sneakymitchell

Yes

Well since it ain’t that unquie shares the same like deadly cloak. And deadly cloak cost almost half than shuffle. If you use a two h and bow then your stam will be gone cause it’s quite expensive to have that mitigation.

BlackLabel

Yes

I think it would be fair to ask for 1 second immunity per piece of medium armor (average players will have 5 seconds but can be boosted to 7) and reduce cost by 25%. Along with its current effect of aoe mitigation.

leepalmer95

Yes

Cinbri wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

No need to make okay skill into OP one just to ensure it will be nerfed-hammered next update. Change to evazion buff will help a lot next update as counter to aoe that is melting medium style easily. In term of snare immunity - it should be Momentum to be turned down, without providing immunity for 100% time.

Why use this over blade cloak with forward momentum?

Well, no reason till zos understand that momentum is overperforming and will tone it down. It not Shuffle weak but Momentum too strong, as it currently goes in discussion of swift trait.

Nah shuffle is definitely too weak. Too expensive and the snare immunity doesn't last anywhere near enough. You cast the time and attempt to go on the offensive and yet are snared again.

leepalmer95

Yes

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

@masel92 has this been discussed in the class rep meetings?

Maybe they decided to just straight up ignore feedback as usual..

Players: Zos medium sucks becuase of how squishy it is and i'm far more mobile and have better sustain in heavy.

Zos: Ok so we're going to give you a 3% wpn dmg increase and make medium more squishy in return.

Players: But we said we're too squishy?

Zos: Silence we have decided!

ak_pvp

No

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

No need to make okay skill into OP one just to ensure it will be nerfed-hammered next update. Change to evazion buff will help a lot next update as counter to aoe that is melting medium style easily. In term of snare immunity - it should be Momentum to be turned down, without providing immunity for 100% time.

Why use this over blade cloak with forward momentum?

Well, no reason till zos understand that momentum is overperforming and will tone it down. It not Shuffle weak but Momentum too strong, as it currently goes in discussion of swift trait.

Nah shuffle is definitely too weak. Too expensive and the snare immunity doesn't last anywhere near enough. You cast the time and attempt to go on the offensive and yet are snared again.

You can see the problem with snares in that too. Its an all or nothing thing, either you are snared a good 60% or you are completely immune. It'd be better to find a middle ground on it.

leepalmer95

Yes

ak_pvp wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

No need to make okay skill into OP one just to ensure it will be nerfed-hammered next update. Change to evazion buff will help a lot next update as counter to aoe that is melting medium style easily. In term of snare immunity - it should be Momentum to be turned down, without providing immunity for 100% time.

Why use this over blade cloak with forward momentum?

Well, no reason till zos understand that momentum is overperforming and will tone it down. It not Shuffle weak but Momentum too strong, as it currently goes in discussion of swift trait.

Nah shuffle is definitely too weak. Too expensive and the snare immunity doesn't last anywhere near enough. You cast the time and attempt to go on the offensive and yet are snared again.

You can see the problem with snares in that too. Its an all or nothing thing, either you are snared a good 60% or you are completely immune. It'd be better to find a middle ground on it.

Or just give every class an answer for snares.

ak_pvp

No

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

No need to make okay skill into OP one just to ensure it will be nerfed-hammered next update. Change to evazion buff will help a lot next update as counter to aoe that is melting medium style easily. In term of snare immunity - it should be Momentum to be turned down, without providing immunity for 100% time.

Why use this over blade cloak with forward momentum?

Well, no reason till zos understand that momentum is overperforming and will tone it down. It not Shuffle weak but Momentum too strong, as it currently goes in discussion of swift trait.

Nah shuffle is definitely too weak. Too expensive and the snare immunity doesn't last anywhere near enough. You cast the time and attempt to go on the offensive and yet are snared again.

You can see the problem with snares in that too. Its an all or nothing thing, either you are snared a good 60% or you are completely immune. It'd be better to find a middle ground on it.

Or just give every class an answer for snares.

If everyone is immune to snares, what is the point. Control should be a valid playstyle but a good 75% of the game is immune. This is a problem with ESO, everyone wants complete and easy immunity to mechanics they should indeed have to deal with instead of just normalizing them. So you end up with crap like bleeds/snares ripping through some players mercilessly whilst the other half goes lul what is the problem, whilst cloaking/being immune them respectively.

John_1999

No

in 5 Medium, Major Evasion gives 25% aoe damage reduction for 20+ sec ( thats a lot).

React

Other. Please explain

Forward momentum needs it's snare immunity REDUCED, and shuffle needs it's snare immunity INCREASED. Sure, it is an expensive skill, but next patch the issue will be that you can run heavy armor with forward and blade cloak with little sacrifice whatsoever on any stam build and be MORE MOBILE than you can possibly be in medium.

If you do not create some incentive to use medium, no one will run it in a meta better suited for heavy armor. I pray zos listens to the numerous threads requesting something along these lines.

Jhalin

Yes

I would really rather have the existing buff still exist, make minor evasion 10% AoE dmg reduction, major 15% AoE reduction and 10% dodge chance.

It really sucks the entire dodge system just got deleted after so many sets utilizing it were added

leepalmer95

Yes

John_1999 wrote: »

in 5 Medium, Major Evasion gives 25% aoe damage reduction for 20+ sec ( thats a lot).

20+ sec of 15% dodge chance was stronger.

Medium were squishy enough and now they're more.

Xeniph

Other. Please explain

I can't agree that the cost should be decreased. However I do think the skill needs adjustment. It's cost is inline with both the heavy and light armor skills, but with the dodge nerf it's utility took a huge hit.

The base snare removal/immunity should be increased to 3 seconds + 1 second for every piece of medium. (numbers can be discussed, but it should provide 8 seconds like Forward Momentum @5 pc)

I would just like to go on record of being apposed to removal of passive dodge in the game, it's a terrible decision for medium armor builds and quite a blow to nightblades and armor sets currently in the game.

Rex-Umbra

Should redo the medium and heavy armour abilities.

mr_wazzabi

Yes

Xeniph wrote: »

I can't agree that the cost should be decreased. However I do think the skill needs adjustment. It's cost is inline with both the heavy and light armor skills, but with the dodge nerf it's utility took a huge hit.

The base snare removal/immunity should be increased to 3 seconds + 1 second for every piece of medium. (numbers can be discussed, but it should provide 8 seconds like Forward Momentum @5 pc)

I would just like to go on record of being apposed to removal of passive dodge in the game, it's a terrible decision for medium armor builds and quite a blow to nightblades and armor sets currently in the game.

I play my nb without passive dodge just fine. I'd rather take less damage to dawnbreaker and leap, 2 abilities that give me a lot of trouble.