Suggestions for shuffle, pirate skeleton and anguish.

leepalmer95

Shuffle: It's strange that medium has lesser mobility than heavy because of snare immunity shuffle has. It's far better and cheaper to run heavy and run forward momentum than it is to run medium with shuffle and i feel like that's wrong. Zos seemed to have nerfed medium survivability again with the loss to dodge chance which the 25% aoe reduction doesn't make up for at all.

Shuffle should have a base 5s snare removal and immunity which increasing like it does now with the number of medium pieces, 0.5s per piece. This would give medium better mobility and mobility = survivability, especially when you're a lot more squishy than heavy plus the cost is so much greater. I'd would like a small cost decrease to go with it because in medium it's costing me 3.8k stamina. I'd also argue that along with this change would be a forward momentum nerf to 6s from 8s because even with this change most people wouldn't even look at medium as heavy is just so much better in cp at least.

Pirate Skeleton: This set is far too strong, 30% major protection far outweighs the 15% healing reduction, you gain a major buff for a minor debuff. It has very high uptime with only a 3 cooldown and yes it's only 6% proc chance but its 6% any dmg so the actual uptime is very high. If others have every ran into anyone specifically magplars with this set on in cp it's basically impossible to kill them without 6+ people. I feel this set needs adjusting it gives far too much mitigation when paired with high armour e.g. heavy.

Solution could just be straight nerfs to its effects? A minor buff for a minor debuff or a major buff for a major defbuff. Could nerf it's cooldown or it's proc chance. Could also change it's effects based on armour type, light medium get major protection while heavy gets minor or such. Either way the effect is far too strong in cp campaigns, the debuff is enough of a downside for such a powerful buff with high uptime.

Anguish: Good on zos for adjusting this set so quickly but it's nowhere near enough. 4.8k healing in pvp where everyone's healingis halved is too strong, why isn't this set effected by battle spirit? Yes now it can't stack which is great but if someone procs this on me and I heal it off can someone proc another on me straight away? This set have numerous problems with such a strong effect, proc chance is far too high, cooldown is far too low and it's actual effect is far too strong. Who designed this set? Because the only type of builds i'd say this set would be perfect to use against e.g. the 30k hp, 30k armour healbots can just purge it. This set cannot make it too live or's its going to be one of those patches where some sets runs pvp again, like the viper patch, the sloads etc... Come on zos.

Chilly-McFreeze

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

leepalmer95

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

I'm sure that was changed at one point.

Biro123

I think if pirate had major buff for major rebuff, nobody would use it. These monster sets are meant to give you a net benefit, Afterall.
Not sure if I can think of any others which have a negative.. maybe kena?, but I guess you have control over that.

Qbiken

As an argonian templar you basically negate the healdebuff from Pirate Skeleton. Change it to major defile and it's ok.

Soris

As a non argonian templar you basically can not fully negate the healdebuff from Pirate Skeleton.

How about we stop balancing the entire game around argonians and templars specificly?

Major debuff for a major buff would absolutely make it undesirable set. Some stamina builds are using it too and the healing is barely enough when it procs. Major debuff will ruin the set for them. Also templars will get major protection from their cheap sweep ultimate in this patch, so i doubt any templar will use skelly anymore. But other classes will still use it and they can't heal as much as templars already.

leepalmer95

Biro123 wrote: »

I think if pirate had major buff for major rebuff, nobody would use it. These monster sets are meant to give you a net benefit, Afterall.
Not sure if I can think of any others which have a negative.. maybe kena?, but I guess you have control over that.

Zergers would still use it or people who are surrounded by heals. The debuff wouldn't be a problem if your ina group and getting mega overheals, just surviving burst would be the problem which the set stops.

leepalmer95

Soris wrote: »

As a non argonian templar you basically can not fully negate the healdebuff from Pirate Skeleton.

How about we stop balancing the entire game around argonians and templars specificly?

Major debuff for a major buff would absolutely make it undesirable set. Some stamina builds are using it too and the healing is barely enough when it procs. Major debuff will ruin the set for them. Also templars will get major protection from their cheap sweep ultimate in this patch, so i doubt any templar will use skelly anymore. But other classes will still use it and they can't heal as much as templars already.

Pretty sure most magplar will still use remembrance rather than a cheap protection ult. Ones so much more beneficial for the group and is basically 4s off non death anyway.

I've ran it on my warden and yeah it's very strong, made my stamden very, very hard to kill.

Irylia

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shuffle: It's strange that medium has lesser mobility than heavy because of snare immunity shuffle has. It's far better and cheaper to run heavy and run forward momentum than it is to run medium with shuffle and i feel like that's wrong. Zos seemed to have nerfed medium survivability again with the loss to dodge chance which the 25% aoe reduction doesn't make up for at all.

Shuffle should have a base 5s snare removal and immunity which increasing like it does now with the number of medium pieces, 0.5s per piece. This would give medium better mobility and mobility = survivability, especially when you're a lot more squishy than heavy plus the cost is so much greater. I'd would like a small cost decrease to go with it because in medium it's costing me 3.8k stamina. I'd also argue that along with this change would be a forward momentum nerf to 6s from 8s because even with this change most people wouldn't even look at medium as heavy is just so much better in cp at least.

Pirate Skeleton: This set is far too strong, 30% major protection far outweighs the 15% healing reduction, you gain a major buff for a minor debuff. It has very high uptime with only a 3 cooldown and yes it's only 6% proc chance but its 6% any dmg so the actual uptime is very high. If others have every ran into anyone specifically magplars with this set on in cp it's basically impossible to kill them without 6+ people. I feel this set needs adjusting it gives far too much mitigation when paired with high armour e.g. heavy.

Solution could just be straight nerfs to its effects? A minor buff for a minor debuff or a major buff for a major defbuff. Could nerf it's cooldown or it's proc chance. Could also change it's effects based on armour type, light medium get major protection while heavy gets minor or such. Either way the effect is far too strong in cp campaigns, the debuff is enough of a downside for such a powerful buff with high uptime.

Anguish: Good on zos for adjusting this set so quickly but it's nowhere near enough. 4.8k healing in pvp where everyone's healingis halved is too strong, why isn't this set effected by battle spirit? Yes now it can't stack which is great but if someone procs this on me and I heal it off can someone proc another on me straight away? This set have numerous problems with such a strong effect, proc chance is far too high, cooldown is far too low and it's actual effect is far too strong. Who designed this set? Because the only type of builds i'd say this set would be perfect to use against e.g. the 30k hp, 30k armour healbots can just purge it. This set cannot make it too live or's its going to be one of those patches where some sets runs pvp again, like the viper patch, the sloads etc... Come on zos.

Then trollking, the sister 2x of pirate, should have a debuff or at the very least a hard cool down.

Also anguish is no where near nerfed enough as it is still more than enough to lock out any healing someone may get especially if major defile is applied with reverb/set/etc.

Medium has a sneak passive which should be changed into sprint cost reduction and snare immunity for 5 seconds after casting shuffle.
Lower the cost of shuffle slightly since its nearly double fm.

leepalmer95

Irylia wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shuffle: It's strange that medium has lesser mobility than heavy because of snare immunity shuffle has. It's far better and cheaper to run heavy and run forward momentum than it is to run medium with shuffle and i feel like that's wrong. Zos seemed to have nerfed medium survivability again with the loss to dodge chance which the 25% aoe reduction doesn't make up for at all.

Shuffle should have a base 5s snare removal and immunity which increasing like it does now with the number of medium pieces, 0.5s per piece. This would give medium better mobility and mobility = survivability, especially when you're a lot more squishy than heavy plus the cost is so much greater. I'd would like a small cost decrease to go with it because in medium it's costing me 3.8k stamina. I'd also argue that along with this change would be a forward momentum nerf to 6s from 8s because even with this change most people wouldn't even look at medium as heavy is just so much better in cp at least.

Pirate Skeleton: This set is far too strong, 30% major protection far outweighs the 15% healing reduction, you gain a major buff for a minor debuff. It has very high uptime with only a 3 cooldown and yes it's only 6% proc chance but its 6% any dmg so the actual uptime is very high. If others have every ran into anyone specifically magplars with this set on in cp it's basically impossible to kill them without 6+ people. I feel this set needs adjusting it gives far too much mitigation when paired with high armour e.g. heavy.

Solution could just be straight nerfs to its effects? A minor buff for a minor debuff or a major buff for a major defbuff. Could nerf it's cooldown or it's proc chance. Could also change it's effects based on armour type, light medium get major protection while heavy gets minor or such. Either way the effect is far too strong in cp campaigns, the debuff is enough of a downside for such a powerful buff with high uptime.

Anguish: Good on zos for adjusting this set so quickly but it's nowhere near enough. 4.8k healing in pvp where everyone's healingis halved is too strong, why isn't this set effected by battle spirit? Yes now it can't stack which is great but if someone procs this on me and I heal it off can someone proc another on me straight away? This set have numerous problems with such a strong effect, proc chance is far too high, cooldown is far too low and it's actual effect is far too strong. Who designed this set? Because the only type of builds i'd say this set would be perfect to use against e.g. the 30k hp, 30k armour healbots can just purge it. This set cannot make it too live or's its going to be one of those patches where some sets runs pvp again, like the viper patch, the sloads etc... Come on zos.

Then trollking, the sister 2x of pirate, should have a debuff or at the very least a hard cool down.

Also anguish is no where near nerfed enough as it is still more than enough to lock out any healing someone may get especially if major defile is applied with reverb/set/etc.

Medium has a sneak passive which should be changed into sprint cost reduction and snare immunity for 5 seconds after casting shuffle.
Lower the cost of shuffle slightly since its nearly double fm.

It can be defiled...

BaylorCorvette

Shuffle def needs a rework in the snare removal / immunity department. I run FM on my Medium builds because it is so good.

leepalmer95

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Shuffle def needs a rework in the snare removal / immunity department. I run FM on my Medium builds because it is so good.

I'm trying to run a medium stamplar in open world and i can't.

I cannot sustain because i'm always snared and shuffle is so expensive.

It cost me more resources trying to stay alive because of medium being so squishy than it does just facetanking all the dmg in heavy.

I have worse magicka sustain and less hp which i'm trying to compensate for.

I've jacked up my armour to without bloodspawn 22k, with defending backbar and rune buff i'm at 28k

However i cannot sustain and i can't keep up with my heavy friends because they have much better snare removal and sustain.

May as well just go heavy at this right because it feels like i'm going to have to use forward momentum.

NBrookus

Of all the monster sets in the game, you want to nerf Pirate Skelly? It's one of the more balanced sets out there.

Minno

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

You can't purge the debuff.

The only scenario I haven't tested where this could possibly be true is if minor defile from a poison overrides the "self buff" defile from PS.

Otherwise PS is VERY balanced in that you have to hit your health in order to cause the proc. The second a shield is on you, PS will not proc until the dmg hits your heal, which messes with uptimes.

leepalmer95

Minno wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

You can't purge the debuff.

The only scenario I haven't tested where this could possibly be true is if minor defile from a poison overrides the "self buff" defile from PS.

Otherwise PS is VERY balanced in that you have to hit your health in order to cause the proc. The second a shield is on you, PS will not proc until the dmg hits your heal, which messes with uptimes.

This is more to do with the fact it's a super strong set without shields. The shields were changd a while ago.

It's the fact people become stupidly tanky with this set on. Thats not balance at all. It's a super strong buff that has very little downsides attached.

Even it's 1 piece gives 3k armour which is a little under 5% mitigation.

idk

OP seems to miss that Zos nerf medium and light survival on the PTS.

However, medium is probably in a better place than stamina as it still has the active roll dodge that will cover mush that evasion does not and a passive that reduces the cost of roll dodge significantly.

I stopped at that since one cannot discuss damage mitigation in a vacuum.

Minno

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

You can't purge the debuff.

The only scenario I haven't tested where this could possibly be true is if minor defile from a poison overrides the "self buff" defile from PS.

Otherwise PS is VERY balanced in that you have to hit your health in order to cause the proc. The second a shield is on you, PS will not proc until the dmg hits your heal, which messes with uptimes.

This is more to do with the fact it's a super strong set without shields. The shields were changd a while ago.

It's the fact people become stupidly tanky with this set on. Thats not balance at all. It's a super strong buff that has very little downsides attached.

Even it's 1 piece gives 3k armour which is a little under 5% mitigation.

Minor defile and proc chance are heavy downsides, the shield stopping procs was done to nerf sorcs who could have uptime on both a shield and the MP buff ignoring the healing debuff entirely.

Think of it this way, PS won't save you on burst if that burst is done during the cooldown. IDK how many times good players killed my magplar running this set because they waited on their burst after I was human and used dot pressure on me with major defile tacked on when I was skeleton.

Bleeds ignore the 1pc bonus but not the MP. High penetration also voids that armor bonus with destro staff attacks dealing 10% (2975 becomes 2677.5 if hit by any destro ability so 4% mit instead of 5% if you are looking at the specific bonus. But that is not how resists work, you have to total the resists with subtracting the debuffs in the correct order.) If I can get 18-19k resists with the 1pc bonus, then destro drops my resist to 17100 (28.7% to 25.8%, A difference of 2.9% not 1% as your example wants to highlight).

Case in point? MP is a nice buff but PS is balanced.

leepalmer95

Minno wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

You can't purge the debuff.

The only scenario I haven't tested where this could possibly be true is if minor defile from a poison overrides the "self buff" defile from PS.

Otherwise PS is VERY balanced in that you have to hit your health in order to cause the proc. The second a shield is on you, PS will not proc until the dmg hits your heal, which messes with uptimes.

This is more to do with the fact it's a super strong set without shields. The shields were changd a while ago.

It's the fact people become stupidly tanky with this set on. Thats not balance at all. It's a super strong buff that has very little downsides attached.

Even it's 1 piece gives 3k armour which is a little under 5% mitigation.

Minor defile and proc chance are heavy downsides, the shield stopping procs was done to nerf sorcs who could have uptime on both a shield and the MP buff ignoring the healing debuff entirely.

Think of it this way, PS won't save you on burst if that burst is done during the cooldown. IDK how many times good players killed my magplar running this set because they waited on their burst after I was human and used dot pressure on me with major defile tacked on when I was skeleton.

Bleeds ignore the 1pc bonus but not the MP. High penetration also voids that armor bonus with destro staff attacks dealing 10% (2975 becomes 2677.5 if hit by any destro ability so 4% mit instead of 5% if you are looking at the specific bonus. But that is not how resists work, you have to total the resists with subtracting the debuffs in the correct order.) If I can get 18-19k resists with the 1pc bonus, then destro drops my resist to 17100 (28.7% to 25.8%, A difference of 2.9% not 1% as your example wants to highlight).

Case in point? MP is a nice buff but PS is balanced.

The pen isn't going to counter, no one runs around with like 20k pen and any armour after around 15-20k is 100% going to be adding mitigation. Also your example is wrong. It would be 2.9% of your total resists yes but still only 300 of the 3k armour would be from pirate skeleton.

The defile is hardly a downside at all, it changes nothing on pretty much any classs that uses it and the proc chance is more than enough to proc pretty quickly when off its 3 second cooldown, 3 seconds is too little of a cooldown. Its 6% of ANY dmg to proc.

Ultimate_Overlord

@leepalmer95 Not really trying to contribute anything to the discussion, but i just want to ask for objectivity when youre trying to discuss something.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

You can't purge the debuff.

The only scenario I haven't tested where this could possibly be true is if minor defile from a poison overrides the "self buff" defile from PS.

Otherwise PS is VERY balanced in that you have to hit your health in order to cause the proc. The second a shield is on you, PS will not proc until the dmg hits your heal, which messes with uptimes.

This is more to do with the fact it's a super strong set without shields. The shields were changd a while ago.

It's the fact people become stupidly tanky with this set on. Thats not balance at all. It's a super strong buff that has very little downsides attached.

Even it's 1 piece gives 3k armour which is a little under 5% mitigation.

Minor defile and proc chance are heavy downsides, the shield stopping procs was done to nerf sorcs who could have uptime on both a shield and the MP buff ignoring the healing debuff entirely.

Think of it this way, PS won't save you on burst if that burst is done during the cooldown. IDK how many times good players killed my magplar running this set because they waited on their burst after I was human and used dot pressure on me with major defile tacked on when I was skeleton.

Bleeds ignore the 1pc bonus but not the MP. High penetration also voids that armor bonus with destro staff attacks dealing 10% (2975 becomes 2677.5 if hit by any destro ability so 4% mit instead of 5% if you are looking at the specific bonus. But that is not how resists work, you have to total the resists with subtracting the debuffs in the correct order.) If I can get 18-19k resists with the 1pc bonus, then destro drops my resist to 17100 (28.7% to 25.8%, A difference of 2.9% not 1% as your example wants to highlight).

Case in point? MP is a nice buff but PS is balanced.

The defile is hardly a downside at all, it changes nothing on pretty much any classs that uses it.

Make up your mind, if you think 15% heal debuff from minir defile does nothing then dont complain about befoul increasing major defile by less than that. Bending your opinion to make an argument does you no good.

leepalmer95

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@leepalmer95 Not really trying to contribute anything to the discussion, but i just want to ask for objectivity when youre trying to discuss something.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I totally agree on shuffle and anguish but on Pirate... you mentioned templars, can we still cleanse the debuff after the set has procced? If so, it would make little difference for them if it's a minor or a major debuff then. However , I'm not sure if this is still possible. If not, the trade of major for major makes more sense, yes.

You can't purge the debuff.

The only scenario I haven't tested where this could possibly be true is if minor defile from a poison overrides the "self buff" defile from PS.

Otherwise PS is VERY balanced in that you have to hit your health in order to cause the proc. The second a shield is on you, PS will not proc until the dmg hits your heal, which messes with uptimes.

This is more to do with the fact it's a super strong set without shields. The shields were changd a while ago.

It's the fact people become stupidly tanky with this set on. Thats not balance at all. It's a super strong buff that has very little downsides attached.

Even it's 1 piece gives 3k armour which is a little under 5% mitigation.

Minor defile and proc chance are heavy downsides, the shield stopping procs was done to nerf sorcs who could have uptime on both a shield and the MP buff ignoring the healing debuff entirely.

Think of it this way, PS won't save you on burst if that burst is done during the cooldown. IDK how many times good players killed my magplar running this set because they waited on their burst after I was human and used dot pressure on me with major defile tacked on when I was skeleton.

Bleeds ignore the 1pc bonus but not the MP. High penetration also voids that armor bonus with destro staff attacks dealing 10% (2975 becomes 2677.5 if hit by any destro ability so 4% mit instead of 5% if you are looking at the specific bonus. But that is not how resists work, you have to total the resists with subtracting the debuffs in the correct order.) If I can get 18-19k resists with the 1pc bonus, then destro drops my resist to 17100 (28.7% to 25.8%, A difference of 2.9% not 1% as your example wants to highlight).

Case in point? MP is a nice buff but PS is balanced.

The defile is hardly a downside at all, it changes nothing on pretty much any classs that uses it.

Make up your mind, if you think 15% heal debuff from minir defile does nothing then dont complain about befoul increasing major defile by less than that. Bending your opinion to make an argument does you no good.

30% major protection is much more of a benefit than the 15% for minor defile.


You cant just look at the minor defile on its own like that then compare it too the added healing reduction major defile gets from befoul..

Befoul just straight up adds lots of healing reduction with no real downside.
The minor defile here comes with taking 30% less dmg from all sources..

Ultimate_Overlord

I said that im not trying to specifically contribute to the discussion of the set. What i did is ask for objectivity, if you call minor defile negligible then you dont get to complain about befoul.

leepalmer95

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

I said that im not trying to specifically contribute to the discussion of the set. What i did is ask for objectivity, if you call minor defile negligible then you dont get to complain about befoul.

Yes i do, that is not how it works at all...

Your saying that i can't say the downside to a set in negliable because its giving such a big buff when i also said befoul is OP?

Befoul makes major defile cut 30% increase until 40-45% ... A 40-45% effectiveness from pretty much nothing is yes far too effective.

But again you can't compare the effects of pirate skeleton to befoul..

killimandrosb16_ESO

Did you guys forget that most heavy damage in the game comes from AoE attacks? The evasion to shuffle COULD potentially be seen as quite a big BUFF, especially if you pvp. Out of all classes, the one with the most and best single target damage abilities, are indeed NB's, the rest of the classes rely on heavy AoE damage, which NOW is being reduced a lot by the only class with the tools available to deal the damage type NOT nerfed by the new evasion buff. I predict NB's gonna be a hell lot harder to kill, just as thy werent already. Add in the very possible nerf to swift and you have the recipe for the new godlike-mode in pvp.

Sharee

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anguish: Good on zos for adjusting this set so quickly but it's nowhere near enough. 4.8k healing in pvp where everyone's healingis halved is too strong, why isn't this set effected by battle spirit?

Because there is no point using battle spirit to reduce something that only affects players.

Battle spirit exists to reduce abilities that need to be powerful for PvE(i.e. against bosses), but would be too powerful for PvP if left unchanged. If an ability does not exist in PvE, it can be instead set directly to the desired PvP value.

(This is just to say "why not battle spirit". I'm not saying the set if fine or anything.)

Ariades_swe

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

I said that im not trying to specifically contribute to the discussion of the set. What i did is ask for objectivity, if you call minor defile negligible then you dont get to complain about befoul.

All his interest lies in is nerfing anything that involves something that makes the allready overperforming stamnb harder to faceroll with.
Just check his post history.
I especially like the fact where he in one thread where it suits his agenda says the evasion we have now is much better than the one on pts but in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435787/lets-talk-about-those-pts-evasion-changes/p2 he votes for keeping the pts changes instead of keeping evasion as it is.

leepalmer95

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

I said that im not trying to specifically contribute to the discussion of the set. What i did is ask for objectivity, if you call minor defile negligible then you dont get to complain about befoul.

All his interest lies in is nerfing anything that involves something that makes the allready overperforming stamnb harder to faceroll with.
Just check his post history.

Funny because 60% of this patch i've been running around on a stam warden which a stam nb counters hard.
Or a stamplar, mag sorc, magplar, mag dk.

But yes i do play stam nb?

But hey please tell me how i'm only 100% catering to stam nb's.

Ultimate_Overlord

@leepalmer95 Again, i am NOT comparing befoul to pirate skeleton, im not comparing anything. Im just saying that you shouldnt be a hypocrite, and acknowledge the significance of minor defile the same way you acknowledge befoul.

leepalmer95

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@leepalmer95 Again, i am NOT comparing befoul to pirate skeleton, im not comparing anything. Im just saying that you shouldnt be a hypocrite, and acknowledge the significance of minor defile the same way you acknowledge befoul.

And i'm saying it's not that simple, you can't just selectively take opinions like that.

Like i said. Before is free healing reduction that basically increased healing reduction by 50%.

Pirate skeleton get some healing reduction but comes with an even bigger buff so much that the healing reduction is backseated.

Like i said, for the the 100th time. You cannot compare things like that and just selectively go.

Befoul = minor main so you're a hypocrite.

One comes with a big benefit.
One is a passive free extra healing reduction...

.

Ultimate_Overlord

@leepalmer95 For the last time, im not debating whether pirate skeleton is op. I quoted you saying that defile does nothing, and asked to stop throwing around statements like that when you believe that befoul is very strong, for the sake presenting yourself as an objective judge.

leepalmer95

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@leepalmer95 For the last time, im not debating whether pirate skeleton is op. I quoted you saying that defile does nothing, and asked to stop throwing around statements like that when you believe that befoul is very strong, for the sake presenting yourself as an objective judge.

You quoted me saying the minor defile is minimum in the content of the buff pirate skeleton brings. Is that hard to understand? The buff heavily outweighs the downsides.

Then you say i can't say that because i think befoul is strong?

How are you expecting people to be objective when balancing a game on a thread with my suggesting based my personal experience? It's obviously based on my opinion.

Koensol

Qbiken wrote: »

As an argonian templar you basically negate the healdebuff from Pirate Skeleton. Change it to major defile and it's ok.

What a terrible suggestion, honestly. Major defile on yourself for full 12 seconds... that would be suicide my man. Minor defile balances this set alright.