Which skills with cast times do people like and use, anywhere in the game?

FrancisCrawford

Like many people, I think adding a cast time to shields will make them useless. The furious discussion around this raises the question -- in which cases have cast times EVER been OK? Here's my list:

• There's nothing wrong with opening combat with a cast time skill. I actively enjoy Sniping from stealth. I never minded starting a fight with a hard cast Crystal Frags.
• Cast time damage skills are OK in really easy fights, but they're not particularly fun.
• Pet summons are done out of combat. OK.
• Back when Clannfears had truly reliable taunts, I'd solo world bosses with a Clannfear tank. If I messed up and he died, then I had to kite while resummoning him. That was fine.
• It's been years, so I could be remembering wrong, but I think I occasionally kited while casting Dark Conversion for some iteration of the skill.

Unless I'm forgetting something, that's my complete list. Basically, I've used cast time skills without complaint:

• Out of combat.
• Before combat.
• In really slow fights.
• In really easy fights.

That's it.

Has anybody else found more use for them than that?

Sparr0w

I don't use anything that has a cast time. Like heavy attacks it just feels clunky.

MaleAmazon

Dark deal on my stamsorc tank.

Uppercut and morphs.

Snipe.

I guess some versions of magicka detonation.

To name a few.

Cast time isn´t as bad as people think.

Morgul667

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Dark deal on my stamsorc tank.

Uppercut and morphs.

Snipe.

I guess some versions of magicka detonation.

To name a few.

Cast time isn´t as bad as people think.

Cast time is the reason I dislike uppercut and snipe
it also makes it ineffective in a laggy environment and well we all know what is the status of TESO

Everstorm

Uppercut though I prefer to use another spammable for 2hs. I don't like cast time or channel skills, it's one of the reasons I can't really get into playing a Templar, because of jabs.

FrancisCrawford

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Dark deal on my stamsorc tank.

Uppercut and morphs.

Snipe.

I guess some versions of magicka detonation.

To name a few.

Cast time isn´t as bad as people think.

Do you use Dark Deal mainly during fights, or between them?

MaleAmazon

it also makes it ineffective in a laggy environment and well we all know what is the status of TESO

If by "TESO" you mean "Vivec pvp campaign" then yes. Otherwise I find uppercut quite effective both when on the using and receiving end.

Do you use Dark Deal mainly during fights, or between them?

I used it as a magicka dump in between boss heavy attacks when I knew I had a window.

Numerikuu

None.

In a game where light/heavy attack weaving and being on top of your skill cds is so highly necessary for optimal dps, ain't nobody got time for cast times. Outside of that? It ruins the flow of combat.

Chilly-McFreeze

It seems like half of Cyrodiil likes Snipe.

FrancisCrawford

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

It seems like half of Cyrodiil likes Snipe.

I actually like it in PvE, but not for a combat-optimized build. I like questing and exploring on a stamblade thief. When he does have to fight, opening with Snipe from stealth is thematic, reasonably effective, and fun. Most important, it's fun. I'm looking at dropping it but resisting because I just like it.

That's VERY different from using it in the middle of combat while being beaten on. Then it's not fun at all.

Kaliki

In my opinion, cast times are not all the same. When I last tested it, Uppercut seemed to have a cast time matching its animation and therefore felt more responsive than most other skills with an animation that takes 0.5 seconds longer than the actual cast time, e.g. Dark Flare.

I think one cannot say that cast time skills are bad per se. I think channeled and cast time skills are difficult/risky to use and need to give players great benefits for the risk.
Dark Flare in PvP is probably an example of a cast time skill that is used by some players. Or think of the Templar execute that might either increase your dps or kill you in execute phases that require mobility.

For me, a shield with a cast time would have to be pretty big and have a duration of around 20 seconds. Then I think they would require skill to be used and still be useful, because you could precast in a suitable moment, but no longer shield spam through everything.

Morgul667

MaleAmazon wrote: »

it also makes it ineffective in a laggy environment and well we all know what is the status of TESO

If by "TESO" you mean "Vivec pvp campaign" then yes. Otherwise I find uppercut quite effective both when on the using and receiving end.

Do you use Dark Deal mainly during fights, or between them?

I used it as a magicka dump in between boss heavy attacks when I knew I had a window.

If you are lucky enough to lag in vivec only, well good for you

Clearly, i lag in all pvp campaigns and bg. Vivec being the worst

FrancisCrawford

Truth be told, we all do things with cast times mid-combat a lot; they're called "heavy attacks". The only ones I've ever enjoyed for damage purposes have been lightning ones, back when they hit harder.

I guess I'm OK with interrupting combat when there's a moment to regain resources, by heavy attack or Dark Conversion or whatever. Similarly with re-casting a dead pet. It's not actually fun, but it's tolerable in context.

I also am lucky in that I haven't had to do many. I usually play either lightning/resto users, whose heavy attacks are channels, or a magblade, who hasn't needed to heavy attack much at all, or a Bosmer stamblade in short overland fights who also doesn't need heavy attacks in those scenarios.

danno8

Dark Flare in PvP for ganking people. Never in combat (on purpose anyway, sometimes the gank fails and then as a Templar you are screwed.)

Dark Deal in PvP while running away/around trees and rocks, lol.

NordSwordnBoard

PvP combat is all "fire and forget", I picked the time stop morph from Psijiic because working in the timing and casting another skill is better than only doing one skill.

FrancisCrawford

danno8 wrote: »

Dark Flare in PvP for ganking people. Never in combat (on purpose anyway, sometimes the gank fails and then as a Templar you are screwed.)

Dark Deal in PvP while running away/around trees and rocks, lol.

That fits the four-part model of:

• Happily to open a fight.
• Reluctantly mid-combat because you have no other damage skills usable at that moment.
• To regenerate resources mid-fight.
• While fleeing madly.

I think there's considerable use of cast-time abilities in those four contexts. But only the first of the four is something people generally like. (Well, fleeing madly can be amusing too. )The others -- especially heavy attacks for sustain -- are generally unpopular.

Am I overlooking other kinds of scenarios, or misjudging people's feelings about the ones I listed?

greylox

Channeled acceleration on my sorc. 36 sec buff though.

If this goes through for shields I won't be using shields, they're supposed to be a reactionary defence.

GreenhaloX

PvE-wise, I love using Crystal Blast followed by the Mage's Wrath combo. Many times, it's an instant kill on some adds and brutal damages on bosses.

Reverb

In pve, my uses are exactly as OP defines, as combat opener, as a pre-fight buff, or a post-fight recovery. The only exception to this is recasting Endless Hail in long fights. Everyone knows the player using snipe, dark flare or hard casting frags is a 10k dps deadweight.

In PvP there are more uses for snipe and dark flare.

Eliahnus

I'm I the only one liking Crystal Blast ?

FrancisCrawford

Eliahnus wrote: »

I'm I the only one liking Crystal Blast ?

No, but to my knowledge your group is pretty small.

DanteYoda

I have huge issues with casting animations on refreshing path and blockade of fire with my latency, so a 1sec cooldown on shield will be oh so fun in pve trying to survive..

Starlock

Eliahnus wrote: »

I'm I the only one liking Crystal Blast ?

Nope. My lightning mage doesn't really use dark magic, but I would never consider using the other morph. If I ever make a dedicated dark magician, crystal blast will absolutely be the morph I use. The micromanagement of the other morph just looks like a pain in the rear to me, and cast times on the whole don't concern me.

Yes, that includes the planned addition of a cast time to two of the game's most powerful magicka shields.

FrancisCrawford

Starlock wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

I'm I the only one liking Crystal Blast ?

Nope. My lightning mage doesn't really use dark magic, but I would never consider using the other morph. If I ever make a dedicated dark magician, crystal blast will absolutely be the morph I use. The micromanagement of the other morph just looks like a pain in the rear to me, and cast times on the whole don't concern me.

Yes, that includes the planned addition of a cast time to two of the game's most powerful magicka shields.

Which cast time skills do you currently use?

efster

I often use overflowing altar when healing trials.

Taleof2Cities

Very surprised no one has mentioned the Warden Shalks yet.

It’s a staple in PvP.

And, fortunately doesn’t fit into the OP’s attempted categorization of delayed abilities ... at least in the PvP raids I’m a part of.

It’s used all the time especially in heavy fights.

That said, I am not a strong supporter of the shield nerf ... indeed my Sorc has a tough time with rotation on PTS after testing this week.

FrancisCrawford

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Very surprised no one has mentioned the Warden Shalks yet.

It’s a staple in PvP.

And, fortunately doesn’t fit into the OP’s attempted categorization of delayed abilities ... at least in the PvP raids I’m a part of.

It’s used all the time especially in heavy fights.

I meant to discuss skills with actual casting times, not just ones with delayed effects.

Otherwise I would have mentioned that I routinely use Daedric Prey myself.

DeadlyRecluse

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Unless I'm forgetting something, that's my complete list. Basically, I've used cast time skills without complaint:

• Out of combat.
• Before combat.
• In really slow fights.
• In really easy fights.

That's it.

Has anybody else found more use for them than that?

Yes.

Templars have been using channels for ages in every "speed" of combat--sweeps, beam, etc.

Wrecking Blow dominated in 2016. Snipe is popular.

I've been using dark flare--in melee range--for the past 2 patches without real issue. With the change to cast time skills being uninterruptible when you have CC immunity, they're a lot more viable.

The cast time morph of Time Stop has been pretty popular. I've used the cast time morph of accelerate, too, and quite liked it.

...however, it's worth noting that none of those are key defensive skills--they're almost all offensive skills (or buffs). Having a key defensive skill in a game that privileges fast, responsive combat is pretty trash.

Kagukan

I use frags sometimes on my mag sorc. I play solo and large groups of trash mobs go down pretty fast when I keep smashing them with frags.

In PVP I use the cast time morph of time stop. It is situational though.

Shields though. Shields are mostly used as a reaction to being attacked. I don't see how shields will be of much use with a cast time. Potentially game breaking for many.

Starlock

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

I'm I the only one liking Crystal Blast ?

Nope. My lightning mage doesn't really use dark magic, but I would never consider using the other morph. If I ever make a dedicated dark magician, crystal blast will absolutely be the morph I use. The micromanagement of the other morph just looks like a pain in the rear to me, and cast times on the whole don't concern me.

Yes, that includes the planned addition of a cast time to two of the game's most powerful magicka shields.

Which cast time skills do you currently use?

Keep in mind I focus on keeping to a character concept, so what I use is determined largely by the design I am going for. In the case of the psijic skill line, I've only completed the story for that on my lightning mage.

- Cast time skills my lightning mage (magsorc) has used (rarely) - crystal blast, borrowed time, channeled acceleration, dark conversion. He regularly uses volcanic rune if we count that as a "cast time" ability as it has an "arming time" (blasting stuff into the air is just too much fun!).
- Cast time skills my ne'er do well thief (magblade) has used (situationally) - inevitable detonation, siphon spirit. She regularly sues manifestation of terror if we count that as a "cast time" ability as it has an "arming time."
- Cast time skills my artificer (stamplar) has used (often) - dizzying swing, snipe. He will be doing Summerset soon, and will probably pick up a few cast time skills from the psijic order as well.
- Cast time skills my vampire (magdk) has used (often) - drain essence, sanguine altar.
- Cast time skills my archer (stamwarden) has used (often) - snipe, overflowing altar (when stam healing dungeons only). She often uses lightweight beast trap if we count that as a "cast time" ability as it has an "arming time."

My other two characters are still in development mode and I haven't played them much. I have a magplar on the back burner who will focus on dawn's light abilities... a few of which have cast times and I definitely plan to use on him or her.

BretonMage

I loathe skills with cast time, and avoid them as much as I can. Cast time is the reason I no longer use Crystal Blast and is also the reason I only HA with lightning.

Out of combat, sure. But any other time, cast time feels clunky and awkward, and has no place in fast-paced combat. Especially to defend yourself.