ZOS please listen to class reps more

Nox_Noir

First of all, I do wanna compliment on all the really nice changes that made it into the PTS but feedback about them is drowned right now by complaints about the not so nice ones...

- Templar and Warden buffs have been long awaited and are finally here, and from what I can tell so far are well implemented
- Nightblades got some mild nerfs but also some buffs, overall pretty reasonable and acceptable changes
- Dragonknight changes are reasonable
- No new proc sets have been introduced with murkmire! bravo!
- lots of nice little general tweaks that are too numerous to mention here

All the above things happen to be relatively close implementations of the feedback provided by the class reps, according to the latest meeting notes, and from what I can tell are quite well received by the community, even though some of them are nerfs, but they are reasonable nerfs and I think most players understand.

However, here's the negatives, and as you can tell by the current forum outrage, mostly Sorc related.

- The Sorc nerfs are extremely unfortunate and poorly done, they do not address the problems that the class was having in PVE at all, and are simply destroying the class identity that was already weak to begin with, especially for stamsorc. It seems like a really clumsy and overdone attempt at nerfing PVP aspects without considering the ramifications for the rest of the game.
- Poor set design. Especially the blackrose weapons are underwhelming/impractical, and show that the set designers only at best have a very theoretical understanding of the combat gameplay. Most of the useful sets are stam or mag versions of already existing popular sets, such as "Bright-Throat’s Boast" (magicka bone pirate).

These clumsy Sorc nerfs were never on the class reps agenda, they do not address the problems highlighted by the Reps adequately at all. With all respect, it is pretty obvious that the combat designers are really out of touch with their game, and I'm not blaming them for that in the slightest. It is simply not possible to keep a players point of view when one is already working on the game full time. This is exactly why the Class Rep program was such a great idea, seeking the advice of people that are deeply in touch with the game and playerbase. And for all the times that the devs really did listen to the reps and implemented their feedback properly, things have turned out mostly positive. But it seems that as soon as the ZOS combat designers ignore rep feedback and follow their own agenda instead, things just turn out hilariously wrong.

Please listen to the Reps more, ZOS. They are good for your game. Work with them more closely, and don't just let them present you with problems for you to eye-ball some fixes on, but also seek their council and opinions on actual changes early on. I hope that you will have a very productive meeting next week with them, I'm sure they have a lot to say about the current issues.

Yours respectfully,
- a long time ESO fan

Masel

Nox_Noir wrote: »

First of all, I do wanna compliment on all the really nice changes that made it into the PTS but feedback about them is drowned right now by complaints about the not so nice ones...

- Templar and Warden buffs have been long awaited and are finally here, and from what I can tell so far are well implemented
- Nightblades got some mild nerfs but also some buffs, overall pretty reasonable and acceptable changes
- Dragonknight changes are reasonable
- No new proc sets have been introduced with murkmire! bravo!
- lots of nice little general tweaks that are too numerous to mention here

All the above things happen to be relatively close implementations of the feedback provided by the class reps, according to the latest meeting notes, and from what I can tell are quite well received by the community, even though some of them are nerfs, but they are reasonable nerfs and I think most players understand.

However, here's the negatives, and as you can tell by the current forum outrage, mostly Sorc related.

- The Sorc nerfs are extremely unfortunate and poorly done, they do not address the problems that the class was having in PVE at all, and are simply destroying the class identity that was already weak to begin with, especially for stamsorc. It seems like a really clumsy and overdone attempt at nerfing PVP aspects without considering the ramifications for the rest of the game.
- Poor set design. Especially the blackrose weapons are underwhelming/impractical, and show that the set designers only at best have a very theoretical understanding of the combat gameplay. Most of the useful sets are stam or mag versions of already existing popular sets, such as "Bright-Throat’s Boast" (magicka bone pirate).

These clumsy Sorc nerfs were never on the class reps agenda, they do not address the problems highlighted by the Reps adequately at all. With all respect, it is pretty obvious that the combat designers are really out of touch with their game, and I'm not blaming them for that in the slightest. It is simply not possible to keep a players point of view when one is already working on the game full time. This is exactly why the Class Rep program was such a great idea, seeking the advice of people that are deeply in touch with the game and playerbase. And for all the times that the devs really did listen to the reps and implemented their feedback properly, things have turned out mostly positive. But it seems that as soon as the ZOS combat designers ignore rep feedback and follow their own agenda instead, things just turn out hilariously wrong.

Please listen to the Reps more, ZOS. They are good for your game. Work with them more closely, and don't just let them present you with problems for you to eye-ball some fixes on, but also seek their council and opinions on actual changes early on. I hope that you will have a very productive meeting next week with them, I'm sure they have a lot to say about the current issues.

Yours respectfully,
- a long time ESO fan

I like this dude.

Avran_Sylt

I'll echo the above. So far the class rep program has done some nice things, but unfortunately, on the side of the Devs (with combat changes at least), we're not seeing much explanation or clarity on the reasoning behind things.

We have the shield cast-time, crit, resistances being implemented, and the reasoning we get is:

"This change makes damage shields function more consistently with the rest of the game’s mechanics. It means that damage shields are more powerful in PvE content since monsters generally don’t reduce armor. Heavy Armor players in particular will receive much more effective damage shields now. This is intended to make damage shields a more potent tools for tanks. We will be monitoring this change closely throughout the PTS cycle and will make adjustments as necessary."

Which communicates what they want to do with shields, but fails to communicate why they feel this is a necessary change. What was the event that caused this to happen?

In all honesty, for PvE sorc tanking I will enjoy this change, since I can MagStack a 11K HP Sorc Tank in heavy armor and have effectively 50K Damage shields being spammed every second. Though I would have much preferred Bound Aegis's Active manipulating shields rather than a whole overhaul of the base resistances...

Galarthor

I am a little bit baffled as to who in their right mind can think that giving tanks huge shields in addition to their already high mitigation is a good idea.

Shields are an alternative form of mitigation for classes / builds that lack mitigation through other means - i.e. resis.
That's why they are given to light armor builds.

Giving tanks both the traditional high resis and their light armor defensive counterparts (i.e. shields) is about as unbalanced as it gets. That's pretty much MMO Balance 101.

akl77

Why is alcast not a class rep? Just watch his latest video on the shield dump animation, he says what we wanna to say.

Nox_Noir

akl77 wrote: »

Why is alcast not a class rep? Just watch his latest video on the shield dump animation, he says what we wanna to say.

He is a class rep.

TheMythicDawn

wasnt this thread locked ?

Masel

ChrisToTheCanvas wrote: »

wasnt this thread locked ?

@Nox_Noir fought to have it unlocked

Galarthor

Why would they lock it in the first place?

ZOS: "Let's create a class rep to get player feedback on balance issues"
Players: "ZOS, listen to the class reps appointed"
ZOS: "WTF?, who'd suggest such nonsense?" *closes thread*

Derra

I prettymuch agree with everything stated in the first post of this topic.

It´s really sad that the only thing i dislike about this patch are the entirety of sorc/shield changes (mixed about overload) and the set that eats healing (overpowered).
But boy do i dislike those.

Doctordarkspawn

akl77 wrote: »

Why is alcast not a class rep? Just watch his latest video on the shield dump animation, he says what we wanna to say.

He is a class rep, which made the very public video he put up detailing how dumb the timer changes were extra brutal.

Meaning they also got blindsided by this. I'm hoping the class reps tell them 'stop with this crap' and set them straight, because they seem to have a more direct line.

Zer0oo

#blameAlcastfornerfs

ezio45

These sorc nerfs are straight up embarrassing to say the least, hopefully zos does start working closer with the reps or better yet the entire community about changes they want to take place long before they are seen on a pts

Something like this

Zos: Community, what to you think about us adding a 1 sec cast time to damage shields.
Community:Hahaha Thats a funny joke zos, good one. Mag wouldn't even be able to solo a mubcrab
Zos: hahaha riiight we knew that

Zos: *That can get filed under shouldnt ever appear in patch notes*

rather then

Zos: HEY COMMUNITY GREAT NEWS!!!! WE ADDED A ONE SECOND CAST TIME TO SHIELDS!!! see take a look at the patch notes for todays pts
Community: YOU DID WHAAAAAAT *grabs pitchforks and torches*

Doctordarkspawn

Masel92 wrote: »

ChrisToTheCanvas wrote: »

wasnt this thread locked ?

@Nox_Noir fought to have it unlocked

The question was why this fairly constructive and innocuous post was locked in the first place.

Probably because, like any and all insinuation that the designers are out of touch, it's taken extremely poorly.He's right. Lisen, to the class reps. There's instances of ZOS ignoring feedback they specifically ask for all along this games history, please dont let this be another one.

It's sad, because a partial fix for this was allready implimented, the crit changes, and something tells me the class reps might have brought it up but ZOS felt the need to double-down with their own fix.