Cast Time for Shields - Why Not a Channel Instead?

DDuke

Ok, I know there's a lot of threads about shields, but hear me out: if shields must have some sort of a check to keep people from spamming them, why not make them generate over one second rather than having an all-or-nothing cast time that can be interrupted?

Note that I'm not saying you should be forced to maintain the channel afterwards to keep the shield, just that it'd generate over a 1-2s and then stay on for the 9 seconds.

Imagine you generated the full shield over 1-2 seconds - if you were interrupted half way through you'd still get 50% of the shield strength to act as some defensive buffer against burst.


Surely this would be a better solution than the current cast time and sorcerers would be happier for it (especially if they got to keep the longer shield durations), while spamming shields every second would still be punished more than it is on Live (which seems to be what Zenimax is aiming for).


Any thoughts?

usmcjdking

If they were to relent on anything IMO this would be it.

I don't like this idea, but it's better than what we have on PTS and probably a good testing ground.

Kikke

Just remove the *** cast time. . .

Faulgor

It's certainly an interesting suggestion.

I always thought the shield mechanics in ESO were quite boring. It's a simple passive extension of your health, compared to other active defensive mechanics like blocking and dodging, or the channeled wards in Skyrim. Plus they are fundamentally too strong, as they allow you to continue attacking in contrast to blocking and dodging, and the magicka-scaling shields scale with your offensive stats, both of which have been an issue numerous times in the last 4 years.
The fact that magicka characters have to rely on shields also does not mean that they are great or fun to use.

Adding a short channel would add at least some active element to shields.
But consistency would still be an issue as this probably wouldn't affect other shields like Bone Shield and Sun Shield. Maybe it would make sense to have a new category of shields called wards, that work like you suggest, and normal shields that remain as they are now.

DDuke

Also as a small side note: since maximum strength shields would be harder to get, I think they should be increased in value as well.

This could be achieved by making them also scale with maximum spell damage, which would also increase build diversity for shield based builds and would make the game mechanics more consistent (as heals/dmg scale with both spell dmg & magicka as well).

Joy_Division

It's better but it is unreasonable to ask Sorcerers to be the only class without an instant-cast main defensive skill.

Dyride

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's better but it is unreasonable to ask Sorcerers to be the only class without an instant-cast main defensive skill.

You don't just Streak out of enemy mechanics in PVE? It is what all the cool kids do.

Beardimus

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's better but it is unreasonable to ask Sorcerers to be the only class without an instant-cast main defensive skill.

Spot on, and this is the point.

Should NB cloak be a channel that fades in 1-2 seconds?
Should block build up for 1-2 seconds?
Should any burst heal have a cast time

Sure a channel is better than current PTS - but thats blatantly not going live unless there is a skooma leak in ZOS ***. So rather than clutch onto a middle ground we need your help batting the stupidity back totally!

Toc de Malsvi

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's better but it is unreasonable to ask Sorcerers to be the only class without an instant-cast main defensive skill.

Spot on, and this is the point.

Should NB cloak be a channel that fades in 1-2 seconds?
Should block build up for 1-2 seconds?
Should any burst heal have a cast time

Sure a channel is better than current PTS - but thats blatantly not going live unless there is a skooma leak in ZOS ***. So rather than clutch onto a middle ground we need your help batting the stupidity back totally!

On NB cloak that may be a better solution to current cloak spam, invisibility duration could be increased with that as well.

Block is available to all classes, so this is a bad argument.

IAVITNI

DDuke wrote: »

Ok, I know there's a lot of threads about shields, but hear me out: if shields must have some sort of a check to keep people from spamming them, why not make them generate over one second rather than having an all-or-nothing cast time that can be interrupted?

Note that I'm not saying you should be forced to maintain the channel afterwards to keep the shield, just that it'd generate over a 1-2s and then stay on for the 9 seconds.

Imagine you generated the full shield over 1-2 seconds - if you were interrupted half way through you'd still get 50% of the shield strength to act as some defensive buffer against burst.


Surely this would be a better solution than the current cast time and sorcerers would be happier for it (especially if they got to keep the longer shield durations), while spamming shields every second would still be punished more than it is on Live (which seems to be what Zenimax is aiming for).


Any thoughts?

Better than the cast time for sure. I'd rather they just adjust Harness and Magicka scaling ratios. You cannot sustain vs a stamina class 1v1 AND have enough damage to be a real threat, so Harness is obviously an issue. But I do agree that 60k magicka fueled shields are overperforming but shields underperform in general in no-CP, so scaling is also an issue. 2 known issues and nothing is down...meanwhile the fix is almost 100% just going into the code and changing variables.

IF a check is necessary, this would be a much better proposal. I'd argue that the strength of the shield should scale with channel time. Half of current live values are given on cast, providing immediate defense, full strength of live at 1 second channel time and 1.5-2 strength with 1.5 second channel.

This gives sorcs an instant cast main defensive skill while increasing the window when they can be bursted. On live, that window can be incredibly small if a sorc chooses to overlap shields.

Right now the nerfs are over the top for sorcs. They already sacrifice the most in terms of opportunity costs to get magicka pools similar to mnb and magden. They MUST spec into sustain meaning their damage has always been lower but now the damage set most likely will become a defensive set, so max mag and all other offensive stats will decrease as well. Every aspect of sorc is taking a big hit right now, and the class was not even over performing to begin with. On top of that, 0 compensation has been given to make up for the fact that the ONLY mechanic keeping sorcs alive is now gone. Streak is still useless/situational, Mines are incredibly niche (needs to be reworked completely), Lightning Armor is not worth the slot and Bound Armor is a joke.

Even with the SS Rune Cage, Cage was over-performing, not sorc.

Chilly-McFreeze

DDuke wrote: »

Also as a small side note: since maximum strength shields would be harder to get, I think they should be increased in value as well.

This could be achieved by making them also scale with maximum spell damage, which would also increase build diversity for shield based builds and would make the game mechanics more consistent (as heals/dmg scale with both spell dmg & magicka as well).

Interesting thought. My old Hybrid Sorc experiment would defenitely profit from this. But the question is do we really want THAT shield on a 6.5k spell dmg, 28k health, heavy armor clown build?

But anything is better than the current iteration is.

DDuke

Beardimus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's better but it is unreasonable to ask Sorcerers to be the only class without an instant-cast main defensive skill.

Spot on, and this is the point.

Should NB cloak be a channel that fades in 1-2 seconds?
Should block build up for 1-2 seconds?
Should any burst heal have a cast time

Sure a channel is better than current PTS - but thats blatantly not going live unless there is a skooma leak in ZOS ***. So rather than clutch onto a middle ground we need your help batting the stupidity back totally!

Well, those are all defensive mechanics that function somewhat/very differently to each other - I think that's a good thing and doesn't really exclude the idea of a defensive channel ability (think "shields/second" while channeling).

Oh, and I'm not saying it should be a "middle ground" necessarily - with such mechanic you could easily have even twice as strong individual shields (ones that last longer) than sorcs have currently as there'd be "counterplay" in the form of interrupt.

I think it'd just be different and I know I'd personally enjoy playing a sorc a lot more if it wasn't just constant spam of (multiple different) damage shields & dodging/streaking away - if you had enough shields to stay on the offensive for a longer duration (given that you were able to conjure up a full shield uninterrupted over a few seconds). And even if you did get interrupted you'd get something off that time spent channeling to help you live.


Just a thought.

SilverWF

"Cast Time for Shields - Why Not a Channel Instead?"
Why not revert that changes instead?
All of that are looks like you are shocked not less than we are, but still trying to find an excuses for them.

Man, seriously.

antihero727

The counter to shield spamming is resources vs damage. You can be shield tanky but only kill noobs. You can be a high DD but have to give up sustain. We weren’t in a great place compared to other DD classes but still had identity. Now....

Feanor

Are people already pleading for solutions that are less crappy then what we had? @DDuke, you know they won’t buff shield strength. God knows noCP would need it especially, but ZOS is just all-or-nothing.

NyassaV

How about just don't make the change. I'm tired of bargaining since it seems even that doesn't do the trick most the time