Are Healers necessary with everyone using Vigor?

Donny_Vito

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

Kartalin

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

That's how stamina characters can have such great survivability. Especially if they run in a small group together and each has their vigor stacked on each other player, the cumulative healing they receive is pretty amazing.

Springt-Über-Zwerge

Very often the damage is too high to heal through it yourself thats when a healer is handy

Drdeath20

Short answer yes

Sergykid

umm obvious? my own vigor and some other healer together are helpful. Like having 2-3 hots on my rather than one.

Kartalin wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

That's how stamina characters can have such great survivability. Especially if they run in a small group together and each has their vigor stacked on each other player, the cumulative healing they receive is pretty amazing.

i don't think vigor stacks from other players. At least i didn't see so far people using vigor near me to stack with my own.

VaranisArano

If healer(s) aren't necessary for your group survival, I'm not sure you are picking hard enough fights.

Tryxus

Healers provide both additional healing on top of your self heals as well as support, buffs and debuffs to help you kill faster.

So yes

Thogard

Sergykid wrote: »

umm obvious? my own vigor and some other healer together are helpful. Like having 2-3 hots on my rather than one.

Kartalin wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

That's how stamina characters can have such great survivability. Especially if they run in a small group together and each has their vigor stacked on each other player, the cumulative healing they receive is pretty amazing.

i don't think vigor stacks from other players. At least i didn't see so far people using vigor near me to stack with my own.

It absolutely does - this is something all decent Stam players do.

Donny_Vito

I run a healer sometimes, but I'm just curious if I'd be better off slotting more DPS and just a few heals. It seems everyone instinctively uses Vigor.

During keep sieging/defending when the inner door gets rushed, the extra heals seem crucial. But in open world where mobility is the main factor it seems my heals are a lot less important.

CatchMeTrolling

Necessary? No. Valuable? Yes

In a 4v4 the group with the healer is probably going to win if it’s equally skilled players.

ChefZero

Thogard wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

umm obvious? my own vigor and some other healer together are helpful. Like having 2-3 hots on my rather than one.

Kartalin wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

That's how stamina characters can have such great survivability. Especially if they run in a small group together and each has their vigor stacked on each other player, the cumulative healing they receive is pretty amazing.

i don't think vigor stacks from other players. At least i didn't see so far people using vigor near me to stack with my own.

It absolutely does - this is something all decent Stam players do.

I thought only the different morphs can stack?

CatchMeTrolling

ChefZero wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

umm obvious? my own vigor and some other healer together are helpful. Like having 2-3 hots on my rather than one.

Kartalin wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

That's how stamina characters can have such great survivability. Especially if they run in a small group together and each has their vigor stacked on each other player, the cumulative healing they receive is pretty amazing.

i don't think vigor stacks from other players. At least i didn't see so far people using vigor near me to stack with my own.

It absolutely does - this is something all decent Stam players do.

I thought only the different morphs can stack?

I don’t think there’s a hot that doesn’t stack in the game.

ChefZero

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

umm obvious? my own vigor and some other healer together are helpful. Like having 2-3 hots on my rather than one.

Kartalin wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

That's how stamina characters can have such great survivability. Especially if they run in a small group together and each has their vigor stacked on each other player, the cumulative healing they receive is pretty amazing.

i don't think vigor stacks from other players. At least i didn't see so far people using vigor near me to stack with my own.

It absolutely does - this is something all decent Stam players do.

I thought only the different morphs can stack?

I don’t think there’s a hot that doesn’t stack in the game.

When ZOS changed it? I remember guild mates did tests with mutagen and rapid years ago and only the morphs stacked together..

CyrusArya

In practice, vigor is primarily a self heal with an additional but periphery group healing component. Self healing is important because it allows for solo and small group play to be a thing. And its not just vigor. Vigor is more prevalent because its a common skill used by all stam builds as their main heal, but every class and spec has some form or method of reliable self healing.

Wether or not healers are necessary depends on the type of PvP you are pursuing. In solo and small scale healers are not required, and thats how it should be. In organized group play they are essential for the best possible performance, as they allow the rest of the group to be more specialized and focus on specific roles and tasks.

CatchMeTrolling

ChefZero wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

umm obvious? my own vigor and some other healer together are helpful. Like having 2-3 hots on my rather than one.

Kartalin wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

That's how stamina characters can have such great survivability. Especially if they run in a small group together and each has their vigor stacked on each other player, the cumulative healing they receive is pretty amazing.

i don't think vigor stacks from other players. At least i didn't see so far people using vigor near me to stack with my own.

It absolutely does - this is something all decent Stam players do.

I thought only the different morphs can stack?

I don’t think there’s a hot that doesn’t stack in the game.

When ZOS changed it? I remember guild mates did tests with mutagen and rapid years ago and only the morphs stacked together..

Could’ve been , never tested it. Just know what I see on the screen. Maybe there are heals that don’t stack but I never seen anyone mention it. And since zos allows quick recovery and healing done to stack it wouldn’t be surprising if they all stack.

GoonyGoat

Shhhhhhh! Or they may try "balance" it along with shields

Lexxypwns

The primary use for healers is extending your offensive window by keeping your group healed while your DPS can put out uninterrupted damage.

It’s a huge advantage to have a healer versus not having a healer.

If you have to stop putting out damage to survive then you start losing, have to kill to win tbh

IZZEFlameLash

Refer to 6 men stam group's Vigor stacking. You should have your answer now. Works in Negate, works in every situation. Healers are not absolute necessity when you run stam groups. But they are still nice to have.

Morgul667

Yes

Kadoin

Get soul assaulted by 5+ people and have a load 6-7 leap at you. Get CC'd and have more than one dawnbreaker dropped on you and executioner spammed. You won't survive that unless you are a healer, or you are a tank using Cyrodil Crest + Robes of Hist + Lingering w/ vigor stack and a lot of points in healing received and know exactly when to roll and block, OR have a healer healing you.

The more people that attack you, the more you will see the importance of a healer. Now if you always run around in a pack with others and never get chased by an army, yeah you don't need a healer. Otherwise, you will soon find the importance of one when you meet the wrong people to mess with, even if you have the same numbers. In fact, you can meet the wrong ONE person to mess with (bomber or otherwise build with massive group CC, AoE damage, or both) and instantly regret having no healer.

Donny_Vito

Yeah a lot of valid points. Unfortunately, I've seen too many small groups that just Spin-to-Win while being able to constantly cast Vigor in the process, and they can somehow survive mass damage and still have the sustain to spam Steel Tornado and Vigor in the process. I guess it's just other flawed mechanics that are the cause, while the lack of a healer is not an issue for these types of groups. And a lot of this observation has been in Imperial City, so there are potentially some other factors at play (Tel Var resource bonus set....forgot name).

Kikke

PvP: Stamina Grps are really strong because of the combined healing of vigor
PvE: Stamina grps never need a healer because of the stacked vigor healing.

Trials: Vigor can carry the melees so they don't have to worry about mechanics too much in certain trials.

I say we give vigor a 1sec cast time? I think that sounds like a good idea, no? xD

Donny_Vito

kikkehs wrote: »

I say we give vigor a 1sec cast time? I think that sounds like a good idea, no? xD

That's actually a good idea.

grannas211

Vigor should have a "one second" cast time

Elsterchen

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I feel like I see 90% of people using Vigor to heal themselves when I PvP, and often they might have Purge slotted too. The other 10% are templars who DPS and also use Breath of Life for heals.

It just seems like Vigor diminishes the need for active healers. Admittedly, it is nice when you have a full-time healer in your group but it just doesn't seem to be necessary.

In PVE, especially trials, vigor isn't enough. Without a good healer (and tank) DDs would just be floor decoration in harder PVE content.

... and a good healer right behind you helps melee alot n PVP, too. In PVP its not as mandatory as it is in PVE, but very much appriated and sometimes gamechanging.

VaranisArano

Soldier of Anguish

That's ZOS answer to "Does my Battlegrounds group need a dedicated healer if we can all self-heal with vigor?"

Yep. You do now.

Dutchessx

I can not speak to pve but as a dedicated pvp healer/group support, I would say even in small groups it is nice to have a healer. I am also a raid leader and I can tell you it is nice to have another healer in the group because it is almost impossible to lead & heal the group. When I am leading I can feel and see a difference in what my group can do when we have a healer vs when we don’t have a healer. However, the cross vigoring of stam players is a very strong play style. My two cents.

Donny_Vito

VaranisArano wrote: »

Soldier of Anguish

That's ZOS answer to "Does my Battlegrounds group need a dedicated healer if we can all self-heal with vigor?"

Yep. You do now.

Yeah, I do like that new set. It's going to be a decent counter to the Vigor-spammers. At least it will cause them to use a bit more resources than they typically would have to.

brtomkin

Donny_Vito wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

I say we give vigor a 1sec cast time? I think that sounds like a good idea, no? xD

That's actually a good idea.

Vigor technically has a 5-second cast time... oops, I mean heal over time (5 seconds to get the full heal). So, if all things were equal, they could revert the 1-second cast time on shields and turn it into a 5-second shield-over-time.

leepalmer95

Is this really a nerf vigor thread?


Run in a group with a proper healbot
Run in that same group without it.


You'll soon see how strong healbots are in pvp, they are obscenely broken.

You go into bg's if there is 1 team with a healer then there is a good chance that team will win.

Donny_Vito

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Is this really a nerf vigor thread?
Run in a group with a proper healbot
Run in that same group without it.


You'll soon see how strong healbots are in pvp, they are obscenely broken.

You go into bg's if there is 1 team with a healer then there is a good chance that team will win.

No, it started out as a legitimate question. But then the PTS notes come out shortly after the question was asked and it's sorta morphed into that I suppose. I think Vigor is a little over-used, but I don't think it needs the devastating 1-second addition that certain shields are getting. I am interested to see how the new PvP set that everyone is complaining about will affect the usefulness of healers though (hopefully increase their presense).