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Solution for Killstealing in BG Deathmatch

mr_wazzabi
mr_wazzabi
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I suggest that if two players from different teams kill a player, both players should be credited with the kill, not the one that landed the killing blow.

This way, you won't have a team win the match just because they have sorcs spamming endless fury while the third team does most of the damage.

In Destiny 2 and Battlefield 1, one of the coolest features was "assist counted as kill", which meant you did the most damage but someone else landed the killing blow, yet you're still credited with the points. In fact, both players are. That makes it fair.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you pass this up please?
Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP
  • DarkJester1
    DarkJester1
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    Assists exist in the game to combat killing blows. I get the same amount of points for them, too.
  • Finviuswe
    Finviuswe
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    In Destiny 2 and Battlefield 1, one of the coolest features was "assist counted as kill"

    Killing blows and assists are worth the same amount pts in BGs, that is why it is fine as is
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    Assists exist in the game to combat killing blows. I get the same amount of points for them, too.

    But not match points. Only kills count for your team towards wins.
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • Finviuswe
    Finviuswe
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    In Destiny 2 and Battlefield 1, one of the coolest features was "assist counted as kill"

    Killing blows and assists are worth the same amount pts in BGs, that is why it is fine as is

    In deathmatch, when an opposing sorc steals my kill, his team gets the match winning point, not mine. We get the same number of individual points, but not team match points. That is the problem.

    Let's say purple and red are tied at 495 and a player from each team gang on a green and kill him. Who wins? If the purple team lands the killing blow, they win the match. Yes the players get equal points, but who cares? The other team got 2nd place.

    That's very minor, that only matters for ONE kill out of the entire game. All of the rest of the kills, that does not matter, and the same number of points are given.

    A player who mainly gets assists still has the chance to rack up other medals as well and be the highest scorer on the team

    It's not a big issue
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    In Destiny 2 and Battlefield 1, one of the coolest features was "assist counted as kill"

    Killing blows and assists are worth the same amount pts in BGs, that is why it is fine as is

    In deathmatch, when an opposing sorc steals my kill, his team gets the match winning point, not mine. We get the same number of individual points, but not team match points. That is the problem.

    Let's say purple and red are tied at 495 and a player from each team gang on a green and kill him. Who wins? If the purple team lands the killing blow, they win the match. Yes the players get equal points, but who cares? The other team got 2nd place.

    That's very minor, that only matters for ONE kill out of the entire game. All of the rest of the kills, that does not matter, and the same number of points are given.

    A player who mainly gets assists still has the chance to rack up other medals as well and be the highest scorer on the team

    It's not a big issue

    What I'm saying is, only kills count towards your team reaching 500. Personal points are irrelevant. If I have 30 assists and 0 kills, all of those kills stolen by another team, that team wins.
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • DarkJester1
    DarkJester1
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    Assists exist in the game to combat killing blows. I get the same amount of points for them, too.

    But not match points. Only kills count for your team towards wins.

    True, but I've found each team tends to steal kills as much as every other team.
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    Assists exist in the game to combat killing blows. I get the same amount of points for them, too.

    But not match points. Only kills count for your team towards wins.

    True, but I've found each team tends to steal kills as much as every other team.

    But the team with 4 magsorcs steals the entire match. Endless fury and let the other teams do the work for them
    Edited by mr_wazzabi on September 12, 2018 7:50PM
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • Jinchuu
    Jinchuu
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »

    But the team with 4 magsorcs steals the entire match. Endless fury and let the other teams do the work for them

    Then do the sensible thing and focus down the sorcs instead of letting them freecast...

    Unless you are willing to be a mindless sycophant and/or coddle others due to their insecurities prepare to be harrased by the Orwellian enforcers on these forums. You should also try to refrain from using any words more complex than those used by a small child due to the fact that said enforcers have made it clear that their vocabulary pool is aenemic.
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    I'm turning this into a NERF sorc thread ...

    I run BG solo I leave with like 5 kills 20 assists ... It's always the damn sorc with 20 kills they've clearly stolen from me be it on my side or worse the enemy side ....

    NERF sorcs
  • Finviuswe
    Finviuswe
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    SugaComa wrote: »
    I'm turning this into a NERF sorc thread ...

    I run BG solo I leave with like 5 kills 20 assists ... It's always the damn sorc with 20 kills they've clearly stolen from me be it on my side or worse the enemy side ....

    NERF sorcs

    tfw You're STILL calling for nerfs to sorcs

    It's been nerfed so many times. It's terrible now! Sorcs are more than beatable now
  • Finviuswe
    Finviuswe
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    jcm2606 wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    In Destiny 2 and Battlefield 1, one of the coolest features was "assist counted as kill"

    Killing blows and assists are worth the same amount pts in BGs, that is why it is fine as is

    In deathmatch, when an opposing sorc steals my kill, his team gets the match winning point, not mine. We get the same number of individual points, but not team match points. That is the problem.

    Let's say purple and red are tied at 495 and a player from each team gang on a green and kill him. Who wins? If the purple team lands the killing blow, they win the match. Yes the players get equal points, but who cares? The other team got 2nd place.

    That's very minor, that only matters for ONE kill out of the entire game. All of the rest of the kills, that does not matter, and the same number of points are given.

    A player who mainly gets assists still has the chance to rack up other medals as well and be the highest scorer on the team

    It's not a big issue

    Tell that to magsorcs just spamming Endless Fury, or magblades just spamming Impale. If a team even has a single magsorc or magblade spamming executes, more often than not they will get the kill. Especially if the person who should have gotten the kill is running a class that doesn't excel in burst damage, like DK.

    You also didn't refute the actual point being made, in that this not only affects player scoring, but match scoring. Medals don't matter in the slightest for which team wins the match.

    Well winning always has to be based off killing blows because that is how deathmatch just works, doesn't matter what game ur playin

    I've seen plenty DKs end up with more than enough killing blows. You just need to time your execute for the killing blow (if you're running one).
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    It's not exclusively a sorc thing though. Any class with a bursty execute can steal kills. I find it pretty enjoyable to time that perfect ambush -> killer's blade and steal a kill from a full 4-man wailing on one guy. Seems like a legit winning strategy to me.

    Don't want sorcs stealing your kills? Kill the sorc first and then deal with the rest.
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    In Destiny 2 and Battlefield 1, one of the coolest features was "assist counted as kill"

    Killing blows and assists are worth the same amount pts in BGs, that is why it is fine as is

    In deathmatch, when an opposing sorc steals my kill, his team gets the match winning point, not mine. We get the same number of individual points, but not team match points. That is the problem.

    Let's say purple and red are tied at 495 and a player from each team gang on a green and kill him. Who wins? If the purple team lands the killing blow, they win the match. Yes the players get equal points, but who cares? The other team got 2nd place.

    That's very minor, that only matters for ONE kill out of the entire game. All of the rest of the kills, that does not matter, and the same number of points are given.

    A player who mainly gets assists still has the chance to rack up other medals as well and be the highest scorer on the team

    It's not a big issue

    Tell that to magsorcs just spamming Endless Fury, or magblades just spamming Impale. If a team even has a single magsorc or magblade spamming executes, more often than not they will get the kill. Especially if the person who should have gotten the kill is running a class that doesn't excel in burst damage, like DK.

    You also didn't refute the actual point being made, in that this not only affects player scoring, but match scoring. Medals don't matter in the slightest for which team wins the match.

    Well winning always has to be based off killing blows because that is how deathmatch just works, doesn't matter what game ur playin

    I've seen plenty DKs end up with more than enough killing blows. You just need to time your execute for the killing blow (if you're running one).

    If two teams can split the points for a shared kill, then the killstealers won't run BG. As it stands now, players who build around killstealing run the match.
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • Dalsinthus
    Dalsinthus
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    I agree with the OP and am surprised by the push back in many of the comments. I play a sorc in bg almost every day and the mechanics of wrath lead to kill stealing, which determines the overall score in the match. This is fine when you kill steal from your teammates, because who cares as long as our team gets the kill. But it's kind of ridiculous when one team gets an opponent's health down to 5% and then a one button spamming sorc from the third team steals the credit. I say this as someone who kill steals all the time; I've won many close matches for my team by doing this.

    IMHO the solution is not to nerf sorcs, but to tweak the scoring system so that both assists and kills contribute to your team's score. They already have the assist system for individual medals, so this would be a simple matter of tweaking how team score is calculated. Kills should probably count for more than assists but assists shouldn't give zero credit towards a win.

  • Finviuswe
    Finviuswe
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    In Destiny 2 and Battlefield 1, one of the coolest features was "assist counted as kill"

    Killing blows and assists are worth the same amount pts in BGs, that is why it is fine as is

    In deathmatch, when an opposing sorc steals my kill, his team gets the match winning point, not mine. We get the same number of individual points, but not team match points. That is the problem.

    Let's say purple and red are tied at 495 and a player from each team gang on a green and kill him. Who wins? If the purple team lands the killing blow, they win the match. Yes the players get equal points, but who cares? The other team got 2nd place.

    That's very minor, that only matters for ONE kill out of the entire game. All of the rest of the kills, that does not matter, and the same number of points are given.

    A player who mainly gets assists still has the chance to rack up other medals as well and be the highest scorer on the team

    It's not a big issue

    Tell that to magsorcs just spamming Endless Fury, or magblades just spamming Impale. If a team even has a single magsorc or magblade spamming executes, more often than not they will get the kill. Especially if the person who should have gotten the kill is running a class that doesn't excel in burst damage, like DK.

    You also didn't refute the actual point being made, in that this not only affects player scoring, but match scoring. Medals don't matter in the slightest for which team wins the match.

    Well winning always has to be based off killing blows because that is how deathmatch just works, doesn't matter what game ur playin

    I've seen plenty DKs end up with more than enough killing blows. You just need to time your execute for the killing blow (if you're running one).

    If two teams can split the points for a shared kill, then the killstealers won't run BG. As it stands now, players who build around killstealing run the match.

    I think that is correct.

    *commence hate coming from all angles*
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    ESO_GOD wrote: »
    SugaComa wrote: »
    I'm turning this into a NERF sorc thread ...

    I run BG solo I leave with like 5 kills 20 assists ... It's always the damn sorc with 20 kills they've clearly stolen from me be it on my side or worse the enemy side ....

    NERF sorcs

    tfw You're STILL calling for nerfs to sorcs

    It's been nerfed so many times. It's terrible now! Sorcs are more than beatable now

    Sarcasm ... Not really a NERF sorc thread ... Truth is if you have one they're great if you're against one theyre the spawn of Satan ...
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    Dalsinthus wrote: »
    I agree with the OP and am surprised by the push back in many of the comments. I play a sorc in bg almost every day and the mechanics of wrath lead to kill stealing, which determines the overall score in the match. This is fine when you kill steal from your teammates, because who cares as long as our team gets the kill. But it's kind of ridiculous when one team gets an opponent's health down to 5% and then a one button spamming sorc from the third team steals the credit. I say this as someone who kill steals all the time; I've won many close matches for my team by doing this.

    IMHO the solution is not to nerf sorcs, but to tweak the scoring system so that both assists and kills contribute to your team's score. They already have the assist system for individual medals, so this would be a simple matter of tweaking how team score is calculated. Kills should probably count for more than assists but assists shouldn't give zero credit towards a win.

    If kills and assists both count to the deathmatch score, it will be balanced.

    @eso_god 's comment that deathmatch in every game has always been about kills. That's true. But those other games also only have 2 teams. With 3 teams, scoring needs to be different, otherwise we get the mess that we're currently in.
    Edited by mr_wazzabi on September 13, 2018 6:00PM
    Bosmer Stamina NB
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  • moosegod
    moosegod
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    I know a sorc stealing the match point when both teams are at 495 is annoying but that's part of the chaos of Battlegrounds. Any other class could steal the point although its easier for sorcs which tend to be the subject of most of these threads. If you're queueing solo and teaming with randoms, expect random outcomes. This issue is combatted in group play because ideally your squad would have someone with the ability to reliably land executes to finish your kills. In that situation if you didn't finish your kill that's just tough luck. Deathmatch is cruel in the way that it only considers killing blow for points but as I said before thats just part of the chaos, it makes Battlegrounds more of an unforgiving place which is exactly how it should be, a no-mercy-chaotic-arena run by whatever crazy people it is that are yelling at me when we lose a flag.
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    Correct me if I'm wrong...But team wins are not calculated in the leaderboard...only points. I suggest you build somewhat tanky and dive bomb with a *** ton of Aoes to rack up assists.

    You get more points for damage and assists than you do for killing blows alone. AOES are very high damage when hitting multiple targets.

    Only reason I know this is I have a magplar build that is full balls to the walls damage. Absolutely zero ducks given to sustain or survival. My highest Killing blow count was 29 kills and 5 deaths. I dealt so much upfront single target burst that my temamates didn't help me with single target killing. But their sustained damage ended up giving them more points to the total score. I think I was actually LAST in total points that match.

    In other words if you deal 30k damage in two seconds to ur target and kill him, great you get the KB points. But ur teammate gets 100k damage to two targets and no killing blows (his targets were able to heal continuously while he was attacking them, where my build is almost unstoppable burst) he will get more points...confusing but it's balanced. Only thing max burst builds are good at is keeping one team locked behind the respawn timer, and ending the match quicker. Not points!
  • Ankaridan
    Ankaridan
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    Baconlad wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong...But team wins are not calculated in the leaderboard...only points. I suggest you build somewhat tanky and dive bomb with a *** ton of Aoes to rack up assists.

    You get more points for damage and assists than you do for killing blows alone. AOES are very high damage when hitting multiple targets.

    Only reason I know this is I have a magplar build that is full balls to the walls damage. Absolutely zero ducks given to sustain or survival. My highest Killing blow count was 29 kills and 5 deaths. I dealt so much upfront single target burst that my temamates didn't help me with single target killing. But their sustained damage ended up giving them more points to the total score. I think I was actually LAST in total points that match.

    In other words if you deal 30k damage in two seconds to ur target and kill him, great you get the KB points. But ur teammate gets 100k damage to two targets and no killing blows (his targets were able to heal continuously while he was attacking them, where my build is almost unstoppable burst) he will get more points...confusing but it's balanced. Only thing max burst builds are good at is keeping one team locked behind the respawn timer, and ending the match quicker. Not points!

    Half correct. Your score ON the leaderboards is based on accumulated personal points.

    However a match's 'score' does not count towards the leaderboard UNLESS you win the game. A second or last place ranking does not affect leaderboard standing.
  • jediodyn_ESO
    jediodyn_ESO
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    The team points for killing blow need to get seriously rebalanced. In the current system sorcs have too big an impact towards winning because of the high chance their delayed “auto execute” will trigger before the person who does all the actual “killing” can get a chance to do their own execute.

    They need to totally rebalance scoring for killing blows. Nerfing sorc execute would help a lot, but ultimately not solve the problem, because then players would be complaining about classes with other sting finishers/ fast ultimates (NB/DK) being imbalanced.
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    Can we get kill.points for killing sorc pets added too ...

    I think that's a fair trade considering I've been in matches that are 32 v 4 (16 v 16 v 4) you get nothing for the damn pets and at times it's all you can see
  • Mihael
    Mihael
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    I think this would be a nice change because kill stealing can be really op, there have been times where my team mates have almost no kills but we still win because I was able to get lots of kills myself and steal a bunch of the enemies kills as well, this might be good for me but it’s really unfair to the other teams
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Mage’s wrath should be treated as a debuff. Whoever lands the attack that triggers the mages wrath should get credit for the kill. If the dmg in the first part of mage’s wrath is what triggers the execute, which is usually the case, then the sorc will have triggered their own execute and get the kill.

    This way sorcs aren’t nerfed in any way - it’s the scoring system that changes... but it only changes with respect to this one skill.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / Madam Clamslam

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Why not leave assists as is, but give the actual kill to the one that dealt the most damage?

    Then it doesn't matter if you landed the KB or not, you clearly contributed the most to the demise of the fallen player.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Why not leave assists as is, but give the actual kill to the one that dealt the most damage?

    Then it doesn't matter if you landed the KB or not, you clearly contributed the most to the demise of the fallen player.

    Because this isn’t PvE
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / Madam Clamslam

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Deeldo
    Deeldo
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    The PvP in this game makes me rage big time, even more than MOBAs (and those games I try to avoid because I get really angry).
    I don't understand the terrible design. This game is basically kill stealing and nothing else. Granted, I am new and play in low-level BGs (<50), but having 3 times is the most *** game design ever.
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