DPS question

Maggi12

build: Magicka pet sorc, Julianos + nerco + ilambris, 2 pets (build from Alcast site), race: high elf, max cp, mundus: mage.
How many dps can i squeeze from this build?
I am interested in non animation canceling mode and with canceling.
All i can do is about 25k dps... while some ppl can do 45k or more. So my question: are trial sets so OP, should i farm them, or they are good only for those who can do perfect weaving and so on?

fix: just made dps dummy and got: 15k lol.

Latios

What are you aiming for? You should be fine if you only want vet dungeons and normal trials, and some of the older trials(HRC, AA, SO) on vet mode.
If you want to do HM stuff on some DLC dungeons(although, on most, you'll be fine) and the harder trials, you might want to get the very best gear. That is, however, very time consuming, so don't go for it if you don't really need it.
As for the number's you'll pull, I have no idea. I don't play Sorcs.

qbit

I model off alcast builds and use the non-pet sorc with the pet sorc abilities ready to slot if I want to solo something. I get 15k DPS no pets on target dummy at CP ~200 without ilambris (20 undaunted keys and still don’t have shoulders though I have all weights of hat with Devine’s lol). Lot of folk don’t want pets on their trial. So I suggest learning sorc and leveling abilities that don’t require pets. Builds are similar enough you can always have the option to switch between pet sorc and pure damage dealing sorc if you just spend some skill points on a couple other abilities.

Maggi12

qbit wrote: »

pet sorc and pure damage dealing sorc

pet sorc is already the damage dealer. and alcast did dps dummy parse ~40k. why he get so high numbers?
link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=nic-8EHfFTs

qbit

Also try using theif Mundus. Increase critical gives me more DPS than increase Magicka at my level and play style and build.

Horowonnoe

To pull those numbers your just need to have correct CP assignments and light weave your skills. Getting 40k on a sorc is pretty easy.

qbit

Maggi12 wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

pet sorc and pure damage dealing sorc

pet sorc is already the damage dealer. and alcast did dps dummy parse ~40k. why he get so high numbers?
link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=nic-8EHfFTs

Max CP and equipment? I don’t have build pulled up (I’m familiar with it since I do both pet and non pet alcast builds). Does his DPS video involve using a maelstrom weapon? If so and if you don’t have that, that’s one if he reasons you’re not getting that DPS. The level 300 and 780 CP skill point allocations he publishes for his sorc builds are very important. And not achievable unless you’re at those levels.

qbit

I checked. His top choice gear includes two high end staves. One of which is a maelstrom staff. If you don’t have that you won’t get his DPS.

Vahrokh

With no trial gear, no Maelstrom staff and no food nor potion you should be able to do 25k (I've done that).

The more stuff you add to that, the higher the DPS.

Maggi12

Vahrokh wrote: »

With no trial gear, no Maelstrom staff and no food nor potion you should be able to do 25k (I've done that).

The more stuff you add to that, the higher the DPS.

Nice to hear that. Did you tested that on self? i mean 25k w/o trial gear.

qbit wrote: »

I checked. His top choice gear includes two high end staves. One of which is a maelstrom staff. If you don’t have that you won’t get his DPS.

You want to say MA staff gives, say ~5k dps or more? can it be true? it just adds ~1k dmg to Light and heavy attacks!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Gear aint the difference between 15k and 40k. You have rotation issues. I dont know what you mean by no annimation canceling. If you mean you refuse to light weave, well good luck with that. Your DPS is going to be bad if you dont weave, period. If you mean no bar swap canceling, well, no secret it can add a few K to your parse. Most people do it to some degree without realizing it, but it should certainly be done by everyone if you want good DPS.

Maggi12

who can post tutorials for doing better dps? bar swap canceling, weaving, etc?
I want to learn all that from zero.

MakeMeUhSamich

I’m often asked about decent pet builds for VMA/Trial/Dungeon runs that DON’T utilize a VMA Staff.

The following is a 36k+ build featuring Necropotence, Mechanical Acuity, and Llambris.

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/makemeuhsamich/video/56637748

I was using Haunting Curse since I use it in PvP and didn’t want to re-morph. If using Daedric Prey, cast it each rotation. You could also drop Curse and double bar Empowered Ward...still plenty of DPS.

I’d replace Elemental Drain with Empowered Ward/Boundless Storm in situations where it’s already provided. The Matriarch gives amazing burst heals in a pinch, too.

CP, Mundus, etc. are at the end.

Lutallo

Trials sets aren’t that OP. It comes down to having a good rotation. I’ve been in so many PUG groups when someone will think “oh I’ve just dropped my last piece of siroria now, I should go from 25k to 50k like those YouTube guys!”.

MooseKnuckles88

Did you say you have maxed cp but stuck on 15k dps with a pet sorc??

You should be at a minimum of 28k to 32k dps just keeping up dots, buffs, and using your spammable in between all that. Once you get better at weaving light attacks your dps will get better rapidly.

What's your rotation as of now?

Maggi12

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

Did you say you have maxed cp but stuck on 15k dps with a pet sorc??

You should be at a minimum of 28k to 32k dps just keeping up dots, buffs, and using your spammable in between all that. Once you get better at weaving light attacks your dps will get better rapidly.

What's your rotation as of now?

I just drop ground dots (LL & wall of elements) and try to keep daedric pray, pet pulse, and doing heavy attacks. I have no spammable skills.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Maggi12 wrote: »

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

Did you say you have maxed cp but stuck on 15k dps with a pet sorc??

You should be at a minimum of 28k to 32k dps just keeping up dots, buffs, and using your spammable in between all that. Once you get better at weaving light attacks your dps will get better rapidly.

What's your rotation as of now?

I just drop ground dots (LL & wall of elements) and try to keep daedric pray, pet pulse, and doing heavy attacks. I have no spammable skills.

Well it sounds like you are attempting a pretty standard heavy attack build. It can def pull plenty of DPS for most content, but you do need to make an actual rotation out of. There are lots of different spins on this, but it mostly comes to the same basic idea. A very typical rotation is as follows (LA=light attack, HA=heavy attack). Remember that even a heavy attack rotation will have you light attacking quite often:

LA>Liquid lighting, LA>elemental blockade, bar swap, HA>volatile familiar, HA> Daedric Pret, LA>Destructive clench, Bar Seap, repeat.

That rotation boils down to a big circle that will result in reasonable uptimes on all your skills. Keep in mind that in addition to this you should be casting ultimates and using spell pots (or power surge with inner light) for major sorcery and prophecy on cooldown. You can also add elemental susceptibility for major breach. You don’t need the sustain of ele drain for this rotation so run the other morph that way you only have to cast it in the beginning of the fight. As long as you keep doing damage, the breach will reapply. Lastly, you can run channeled acceleration or trap for minor force. These all go outside of the normal rotation, but you shouldn’t have to deviate too much. You need a good light weave and you should be swap cancelling blockade and clench. You should easily break 30k with this setup.

lagrue

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Oreyn_Bearclaw

lagrue wrote: »

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage. It’s the single biggest reason we have the NB meta, other classes can’t sustain like they do. Absolutely there are Sorc DPS builds that are designed to run without heavy attacks, but they either require really good support from your raid or you making too many sacrifices for sustain to the point where your damage suffers.

Sorcs can function very well (outside of High end raids) with a rotation based around heavy attacks. You won’t break records, but it’s plenty of damage. If you are only pulling 15k, a heavy attack build is a great place to start.

zaria

Lutallo wrote: »

Trials sets aren’t that OP. It comes down to having a good rotation. I’ve been in so many PUG groups when someone will think “oh I’ve just dropped my last piece of siroria now, I should go from 25k to 50k like those YouTube guys!”.

This, same with race, now if your dps is low your rotation is bad and you do not want an set like mechanical accuracy who require that you manage the proc. Same with the Cloudrest healing set, now simple proc sets will be nice as they add an flat damage who is better than magic or spell damage if dps is very low.

lagrue

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage.

I'd like to know how because I have over 41k magicka and some 1250 regen and I manage to do just fine. It might help that I use Spell Power potions which also heal Magicka while improving my DPS, as often as I can. Considering the 1 sec cooldown between skill casts, I hardly seem to lose Magicka, I get the full cost of Blockade and Liquid lightning back in 2-3 seconds (each) lol. Only 2 of my Jewelry pieces are Regen, the other spell power. Somehow I still manage to do enough DPS to burn through trials. I could squeeze more DPS, and need to sustain more - but I'm fine where I am, there's no content I can't take and since my rotation has improved drastically with practice, I'm easily hitting high DPS of 35-40k DPS with only food/pots - not even considering buffs - and no matter how much elitists want to *** on people for not doing more, it's more than enough, especially WHEN buffed..

I'm not making a case against NB, but anybody who's not a muppet can easily do vet level trials with a sorc and not suffer sustain issues. It's one of the easiest classes to play.

SirAndy

lagrue wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage.

I'd like to know how ...

Because in the context of end game everything is wrapped in hyperbole.
"garbage" "useless" and "trash" is everything that is 1% off the current meta.
Which is also why what is considered "garbage/useless/trash" changes so often.

In reality, Sorcs are still doing just fine in endgame if you stop obsessing over fractional DPS differences ...

Tannus15

lagrue wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage.

I'd like to know how because I have over 41k magicka and some 1250 regen and I manage to do just fine. It might help that I use Spell Power potions which also heal Magicka while improving my DPS, as often as I can. Considering the 1 sec cooldown between skill casts, I hardly seem to lose Magicka, I get the full cost of Blockade and Liquid lightning back in 2-3 seconds (each) lol. Only 2 of my Jewelry pieces are Regen, the other spell power. Somehow I still manage to do enough DPS to burn through trials. I could squeeze more DPS, and need to sustain more - but I'm fine where I am, there's no content I can't take and since my rotation has improved drastically with practice, I'm easily hitting high DPS of 35-40k DPS with only food/pots - not even considering buffs - and no matter how much elitists want to *** on people for not doing more, it's more than enough, especially WHEN buffed..

I'm not making a case against NB, but anybody who's not a muppet can easily do vet level trials with a sorc and not suffer sustain issues. It's one of the easiest classes to play.

1250 regen is 1250 magicka every 2 seconds. With pots you'll end up with effective 1400ish regen.
Liquid lightning costs 3510 magicka, so it takes 6 seconds to regen liquid
Ele blockade costs 3240. Factor in cost reduction etc and we'll call it an even 6k to cast both over 2 seconds, during which you'll regen less than 1.5k magicka.
It takes a full rotation just to regen liquid lightning and elemental blockade. That's assuming you do nothing else but spam light attacks.

In a nut shell, you're wrong. Maths says no.

Magblades don't have these issues. they have all spell damage enchants, gaining 348 more spell damage than you because their class skill returns more magicka than you get from running 2 regen enchants.
Think about this for a moment.

Night blades get more spell damage than the 5pc of julianos because they don't need to run 2 regen enchants like you do.

Only when fully supported do Sorcs get close to magblade numbers. Without that support they fall off sharply. no combat prayer? Better use slimecraw for minor berserk.

I know because I run a sorc in vet trials. I'm doing 40k+, but I'm not also going to pretend that mag sorcs aren't behind the 8-ball right now.

I'm running Lich in PvE as one of my 5pc sets to try and deal with the Garbage Sustain Issues.

lagrue

Tannus15 wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage.

I'd like to know how because I have over 41k magicka and some 1250 regen and I manage to do just fine. It might help that I use Spell Power potions which also heal Magicka while improving my DPS, as often as I can. Considering the 1 sec cooldown between skill casts, I hardly seem to lose Magicka, I get the full cost of Blockade and Liquid lightning back in 2-3 seconds (each) lol. Only 2 of my Jewelry pieces are Regen, the other spell power. Somehow I still manage to do enough DPS to burn through trials. I could squeeze more DPS, and need to sustain more - but I'm fine where I am, there's no content I can't take and since my rotation has improved drastically with practice, I'm easily hitting high DPS of 35-40k DPS with only food/pots - not even considering buffs - and no matter how much elitists want to *** on people for not doing more, it's more than enough, especially WHEN buffed..

I'm not making a case against NB, but anybody who's not a muppet can easily do vet level trials with a sorc and not suffer sustain issues. It's one of the easiest classes to play.

Okay so every 2 seconds... whoopdeedoo... fact remains I do NOT have sustain OR DPS issues. I don't know why people keep talking to me about Nightblades because this isn't a topic about Nightblades nor do I care what nightblades can or can't do. I'm sure OP doesn't give a crap either considering he made a thread about sorcs.

TheInfernalRage

Maggi12 wrote: »

build: Magicka pet sorc, Julianos + nerco + ilambris, 2 pets (build from Alcast site), race: high elf, max cp, mundus: mage.
How many dps can i squeeze from this build?
I am interested in non animation canceling mode and with canceling.
All i can do is about 25k dps... while some ppl can do 45k or more. So my question: are trial sets so OP, should i farm them, or they are good only for those who can do perfect weaving and so on?

fix: just made dps dummy and got: 15k lol.

Check Donwozi's build videos in YouTube. He's basically wearing simple gear and pulling high DPS.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

lagrue wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage.

I'd like to know how because I have over 41k magicka and some 1250 regen and I manage to do just fine. It might help that I use Spell Power potions which also heal Magicka while improving my DPS, as often as I can. Considering the 1 sec cooldown between skill casts, I hardly seem to lose Magicka, I get the full cost of Blockade and Liquid lightning back in 2-3 seconds (each) lol. Only 2 of my Jewelry pieces are Regen, the other spell power. Somehow I still manage to do enough DPS to burn through trials. I could squeeze more DPS, and need to sustain more - but I'm fine where I am, there's no content I can't take and since my rotation has improved drastically with practice, I'm easily hitting high DPS of 35-40k DPS with only food/pots - not even considering buffs - and no matter how much elitists want to *** on people for not doing more, it's more than enough, especially WHEN buffed..

I'm not making a case against NB, but anybody who's not a muppet can easily do vet level trials with a sorc and not suffer sustain issues. It's one of the easiest classes to play.

@lagrue

LMAO, you are running 2 regen pieces. Put on trial gear with no regen enchants, and you only get witchmothers and ele drain to sustain. Now do a 6 million dummy parse north of 45k without doing any heavy attacks. That is what we are comparing it against, and that is frankly a modest damage threshold.

I am not saying you cant clear any content on a sorc, but when you compare it to the alternative, you will realize just how bad sorc sustain is right now.

lagrue

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage.

I'd like to know how because I have over 41k magicka and some 1250 regen and I manage to do just fine. It might help that I use Spell Power potions which also heal Magicka while improving my DPS, as often as I can. Considering the 1 sec cooldown between skill casts, I hardly seem to lose Magicka, I get the full cost of Blockade and Liquid lightning back in 2-3 seconds (each) lol. Only 2 of my Jewelry pieces are Regen, the other spell power. Somehow I still manage to do enough DPS to burn through trials. I could squeeze more DPS, and need to sustain more - but I'm fine where I am, there's no content I can't take and since my rotation has improved drastically with practice, I'm easily hitting high DPS of 35-40k DPS with only food/pots - not even considering buffs - and no matter how much elitists want to *** on people for not doing more, it's more than enough, especially WHEN buffed..

I'm not making a case against NB, but anybody who's not a muppet can easily do vet level trials with a sorc and not suffer sustain issues. It's one of the easiest classes to play.

@lagrue

LMAO, you are running 2 regen pieces. Put on trial gear with no regen enchants, and you only get witchmothers and ele drain to sustain. Now do a 6 million dummy parse north of 45k without doing any heavy attacks. That is what we are comparing it against, and that is frankly a modest damage threshold.

I am not saying you cant clear any content on a sorc, but when you compare it to the alternative, you will realize just how bad sorc sustain is right now.

Well now you're running with something I said and to be fair I understand now. It was my wording. I didn't mean to say NEVER do heavy attacks... I was trying to imply they shouldn't be the main source of your attacks in the rotation. Heavy attacking after a prolongued period of time... I expect that. I was more or less thinking of people who heavy attack every single rotation, which is unnecessary on sorc. I throw in a heavy attack after like, I dunno, 40-50 seconds if I'm just spitballing. But some people out there try to do it after every skill rotation, and I think that's not particularly needed.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

lagrue wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

With Sorc it's all about weaving the light attacks in. Most sorcs can reach digustingly high levels of Magicka and Regen so realistically sustaining should never be a real issue unless it's a really, really prolongues fight. To that merit, you shouldn't really ever have to be doing heavy attacks.

Don't forget about your DoT attacks like Elemental Blockade and the Liquid Lightning. Combined with Thamaturge CP skill (and if RNG blesses you Maelstrom staffs) you should be able to spit out huge DPS just between these two skills, but naturally you will work even more into your rotation.

It's:
25% gear
25% skills/CP
50% practice

Um, from an endgame DPS perspective, Sorc sustain is f’ing garbage.

I'd like to know how because I have over 41k magicka and some 1250 regen and I manage to do just fine. It might help that I use Spell Power potions which also heal Magicka while improving my DPS, as often as I can. Considering the 1 sec cooldown between skill casts, I hardly seem to lose Magicka, I get the full cost of Blockade and Liquid lightning back in 2-3 seconds (each) lol. Only 2 of my Jewelry pieces are Regen, the other spell power. Somehow I still manage to do enough DPS to burn through trials. I could squeeze more DPS, and need to sustain more - but I'm fine where I am, there's no content I can't take and since my rotation has improved drastically with practice, I'm easily hitting high DPS of 35-40k DPS with only food/pots - not even considering buffs - and no matter how much elitists want to *** on people for not doing more, it's more than enough, especially WHEN buffed..

I'm not making a case against NB, but anybody who's not a muppet can easily do vet level trials with a sorc and not suffer sustain issues. It's one of the easiest classes to play.

@lagrue

LMAO, you are running 2 regen pieces. Put on trial gear with no regen enchants, and you only get witchmothers and ele drain to sustain. Now do a 6 million dummy parse north of 45k without doing any heavy attacks. That is what we are comparing it against, and that is frankly a modest damage threshold.

I am not saying you cant clear any content on a sorc, but when you compare it to the alternative, you will realize just how bad sorc sustain is right now.

Well now you're running with something I said and to be fair I understand now. It was my wording. I didn't mean to say NEVER do heavy attacks... I was trying to imply they shouldn't be the main source of your attacks in the rotation. Heavy attacking after a prolongued period of time... I expect that. I was more or less thinking of people who heavy attack every single rotation, which is unnecessary on sorc. I throw in a heavy attack after like, I dunno, 40-50 seconds if I'm just spitballing. But some people out there try to do it after every skill rotation, and I think that's not particularly needed.

@lagrue
Well it's a different style of play. There are plenty of people that play heavy attack pet sorcs where they intentionally heavy attack once or twice per rotation. These builds were meta DPS at one point. Currently, they are viable for clearing content, but really the only advantage to them is that the rotations are really easy, and they do pretty darn good AOE damage (the best raids dont care about aoe damage).

But again, a NB can kill a 50+ million health dummy without needing to heavy attack. Sustain is not good or bad in isolation, its about how it stacks up to the other alternatives. The closest alternative to a mSorc from a DPS perspective is a mNB, as both are ranged magic damage dealers. Both use a spam skill, both have a hard hitting proc, both have an execute, both have a ground AOE dot, etc. When you compare one to the other, you realize that sorc sustain is in a bad spot when compared to the most reasonable alternative.

Malmai

AC like hell or you will get nowhere exploit the game devs said that... Scripters an CE users are welcome in this game...

Maggi12

Malmai wrote: »

AC like hell or you will get nowhere exploit the game devs said that... Scripters an CE users are welcome in this game...

I dont understand your 1-st sentence. what means AC? dots and commas are your best friends )))