Magicka Sorcerer PvP build "Bloody Vendetta" - I Define Op

ItsNebula

del9 wrote: »

On mag sorc I’m probably a 6/10, so 9/10 might be a little above my skill level. Do you have any tips that would make this build work for a worse player like me?

Should I put a shield on front bar?
Should I switch Axiom to Lich or Shackle or Julianos or literally any other mag set?
Should I swap my S+B for a resto staff with healing ward?


Thanks for sharing

Really the only tips i can give for this build to work out for you, is to just practice with it.
I really hated the build at first, but loved the stats. I just wasnt a good magsorc back then, but now im used to the playstyle.. low HP, killing with a burst combo, kitting etc.
Practice makes perfect

ItsNebula

Adernath wrote: »

This build works only against noobs or people who are busy fighting others. With 11k stamina you are just dead against most experienced pvp-ers in a 1vs1 situation. Dodging and breaking free are just too important.

I wish that magicka would get a break free mechanic. In regards of sorcs, streak would be the perfect choice. Then pure magicka builds would become viable.

A well known and very experienced magsorc ive fought on PC NA, Matt, can say other wise. Dueled him about 5 times, beat him 4 times.
11k Stam is all you need with SnB and EG and Tripots.
In 1v1 against stam toons however, you need to be really careful about your magicka sustain.. this build is meant for fighting out numbered, as 1vX there will be magicka toons on you feeding you magicka back.
Against stam toons, i hardly EVER apply harness as its just to costly. But again, if i can land my burst down right, i can kill them before i run out of magicka.

ItsNebula

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Not a fan of this build. Thank you for sharing, and if you're doing well with it - great!

For me, the sustain is not enough. The moment you're forced to spam shields and Streak, with EG giving you health, you're done. Root spam will also cost you with that stam pool and regen.
16k health means the first stun when your shields drop spells your death. And they will drop, see above. Which makes 72 Bastion points redundant. More into Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned would be my advice.
Frontbar shield to proc Frags under pressure, deal with barswap-denying lag and save the time for a barswap after a CC and such is a good idea. Your judgment is completely wrong.
Innate doesn't help your ult and spammable. I think Spinner's and putting points from Spell Erosion into Elfborn/Elemental Expert should give you higher burst.

Well, I don't see this build succeeding in drawn-out fights. I can imagine it being useful for a "Ninja Sorc" playstyle, where you quickly drop a few guys from afar, but get the hell out once they noticed you. Again, thanks for taking the time to share. Any information holds valuable insights.

Some dont like the build, others love it.
Its all about playstyle. I have np sustain with 11k stam and 1400 mag recov, as ive been doing so since Morrowind.
I run innate for harder frags, curse and endless, as those 3 alone can kill mostly everyone i encounter.
Im slowly putting together a build video with this to show it off and its full strength.
It works best in 1vX, and 1v1 against mag toons.. good stam toons ina 1v1 i struggle against however.

ItsNebula

Valera Progib wrote: »

That moment when you kite and sustain dark conversion with 11k stamina

No front bar shield
No heal
No idea where your “big burst” and “if you get caught by my clench you are screwed” is coming from.
First magdk that you will see, will kill you faster than a mob in soul shriven

Gl thinking this is a good build

This is a great build.
If youre on PC NA i can prove that even if you get on a MagDK

ItsNebula

BohnT wrote: »

Why do you use innate axiom when it doesn't buff:
Light attacks, flame reach, elemental weapon and ice comet
Why do you wear a defending sword?
It doesn't provide you anything at all, a training sword will be just as effective
What is this CP allocation?
No points into staff expert??? Talk about damage loss
27 points wasted on resistant,
No points into expert defender,
Also you wasted so many points for a few more % when you can get much more damage if you allocated the CP better


Put a shield on your frontbar, it doesn't matter how tough you think you are, with lag around not having a shield on the frontbar will get you killed.


Your build isn't hard to master, its just outclassed by anything else.
You have bad sustain, bad healing, no room for error (every good build is there to cover you when you are doing mistakes) while your damage isn't high enough to set itself apart from other builds or compensates for the loss in other aspects in any way

I dont need the extra damage from light attack, flame, elemental and ice.
My Frags already average a good 9-10k, 7-8k against tankier players. Curse averages a good 7-9k Elemental averages a good 5k.. then endless will proc.
Its a waste of CP to go staff expert. Shield on front bar is a huge waste if you know how to live in a fight.
I hardly EVER have sustain issues, even in 1vX.. where this build excells.
Healing is perfectly fine as not many people get past my shields unless im getting zerged down hard.
Ive dueled a lot of great players with this build, and other known and amazing MagSorcs such as Matt from Known Sh*tters.
Defending sword is for a little more tankyness on back bar while BoLing away incase shields drop.

ItsNebula

Aedaryl wrote: »

I think the build is bad.

For somes reasons :

1) You have not enough magicka sustain to fight a stamina build, you will be OOM fast and kiting a stamina build for dark conversion is not possible since everysingle meta stam build outrun you.

2) You have not enough stamina sustain, if you have the time to heavy attack in 1v1, you will not in 1vX, and when people dodge or block it, you get nothing. You also can't rely on HA when you are kiting.

You also cannot dodge when needed, that's mean you're a dead sorc. Outnumbered you need to dodge to survive. You need it to buy GCD and not being stuck in a spam shield every second until CC come rotation. With 16k HP a LA + DBoS + Execute just one shot you.

3) You have no burst heal and no on demand heal, meaning you are reckt once you are in execute range, because you will not be able to leave it and keeping shield.


4) You rely on elemental drain for damage without master destro staff. You are supposed to do perfect weaving and you wear a set that doesn't increase LA, which mean less pressure (!) and less burst. You are also loosing damage without master staff on flame reach.

5) I'm curious to know your true rotation.

Is it LA/Curse -> LA/EW -> Reach -> LA/Frag -> LA/Fury ?

Because you will not kill someone with a halfbrain without CC. Also, the "rotation" you describe make the frag land 1 GCD after curse, you just loose the "burst".

Let's be honnest, your build is a true potato killer build, the PvE boy with 300 cp discovering the game have skill and not just left click will be murdered.

How about decent players ? And decent player when outnumbered ?

This build isnt meant for 1v1. Its for 1vX.
One of the best MagSorcs ik on PC NA is Matt from Known Sh*tters, him and Xevenex are the 2 people that inspired me to play MagSorc.. ive dueled Matt 5 times. beat him 4 outta the 5. xevenex im yet to duel as i think hes quit ESO.

Stam sustain is perfectly as SnB heavy attacks gives me stam back. EG can give stam back.
Most people i only need to Curse, Flame, Endless, Elemental LA and Frag to kill. Id say thats for about 70% people i encounter.
Dark conversion is my "burst" heal.. but with my shield strength (25k) my HP is hardly ever touched.. and if it is, i shield up, BOL and dark conversion and power surge does the rest.

Feanor

Stam sustain is perfectly as SnB heavy attacks gives me stam back. EG can give stam back.
Most people i only need to Curse, Flame, Endless, Elemental LA and Frag to kill. Id say thats for about 70% people i encounter.

1) If your stam and your mag sustain are connected to S&B heavy attacks and thus to being in melee range, why play a Sorc at all? Anything stam will be easier.

2) The build works because there really are a vast amount of bad players who don’t CC and pressure at all.

VirtualElizabeth

I stopped playing my Mag Sorc largely because it's boring - hard to vary builds and way too "meta" driven. I like the idea of what the OP is doing in trying to bring some variation - but the delivery of the message is what is making me just say "NO".

Jurand80

Stopped reading after 16k hp.

CyrusArya

Innate axiom is a terrible choice for sorc. You’re giving up light attack and ulti damage.

ItsNebula

CyrusArya wrote: »

Innate axiom is a terrible choice for sorc. You’re giving up light attack and ulti damage.

Light attack damage doesnt mean much with this build. It already hits hard enough. The bust combo is enough to kill just about anyone i encounter, as long as my frag and curse crits, youre more than likely going to die from an Endless proc.. unless youre a MagSorc, or a more experienced player, itll take a few burst combo attempts to kill them.
Ive done this build with many other sets.. spinners, juli, war maiden etc.. none of them hit as hard as axiom does. Nor do they give that extra bit of Stamina and in some cases magicka.
Ive dueled many known and experienced players with this build... just yesterday ive 1v3 a known StamSorc (Not sure if i can name him due to the "name and shame" policy) and 2 MagPlars and i had np.

ItsNebula

Jurand80 wrote: »

Stopped reading after 16k hp.

MagSorcs dont need 20k+ HP if they got good shields and know how to keep them up.. many many many good MagSorcs run 16k-17k HP.. Malamar.. Matt (Pretty sure Matt does) xevenex, TGM, Libruh etc.

ItsNebula

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I stopped playing my Mag Sorc largely because it's boring - hard to vary builds and way too "meta" driven. I like the idea of what the OP is doing in trying to bring some variation - but the delivery of the message is what is making me just say "NO".

Thats the whole point of this build.. MagSorc since beta has always been pretty much the same skills.. same sets.. same combo, same weapon setup etc. It made it very dull and boring to play.
This build imo is much more effective than meta.. open world.. meta can def do better in 1v1 situations against a STAM toon, but against a experienced mag toon? This build would win just because of the amount of damage it can throw out

ItsNebula

Feanor wrote: »

Stam sustain is perfectly as SnB heavy attacks gives me stam back. EG can give stam back.
Most people i only need to Curse, Flame, Endless, Elemental LA and Frag to kill. Id say thats for about 70% people i encounter.

1) If your stam and your mag sustain are connected to S&B heavy attacks and thus to being in melee range, why play a Sorc at all? Anything stam will be easier.

2) The build works because there really are a vast amount of bad players who don’t CC and pressure at all.

The build works because i know how to play it.
Heavy attacking for stam is always a good thing.. if im getting constantly pressured by a zerg when i HAVE to roll dodge the big attacks, and break free.. all i have to do is 1-2 heavy attacks and im good for a while.
This build works out in open world much much better than your average destro resto player would as i can roll dodge pretty much infinity and i can always break free.. i never really have to "watch" my stam as if i get low.. 1 heavy attack will do the trick

Waffennacht

Just fyi; if you're wondering about naming and shaming; ask the individual if it would be ok to share their name.

If they are ok with it (like you described - just telling an experience) then just add that you have spoken with them and it's cool.

I've never had issues when I've done this

BohnT

ItsNebula wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I stopped playing my Mag Sorc largely because it's boring - hard to vary builds and way too "meta" driven. I like the idea of what the OP is doing in trying to bring some variation - but the delivery of the message is what is making me just say "NO".

Thats the whole point of this build.. MagSorc since beta has always been pretty much the same skills.. same sets.. same combo, same weapon setup etc. It made it very dull and boring to play.
This build imo is much more effective than meta.. open world.. meta can def do better in 1v1 situations against a STAM toon, but against a experienced mag toon? This build would win just because of the amount of damage it can throw out

A " meta" magsorc will deal more damage,
First because they have proper CP allocation,
Second they don't have to stop any Kind of damage every 4 seconds just because they don't have any damage with their weaves on the back bar while also having the option just to stay in the front bar to keep damaging the enemy
Third they have higher damage because they use sets that buff their weave damage
Fourth if they run necro + shadowrend they will have better stronger shields, better necro uptime and the strongest ST magicka damage set

And that is just why a normal build is better damage wise, don't even get me started on sustain both magicka and Stamina wise and the loss of survivability with 16k health

ItsNebula

BohnT wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I stopped playing my Mag Sorc largely because it's boring - hard to vary builds and way too "meta" driven. I like the idea of what the OP is doing in trying to bring some variation - but the delivery of the message is what is making me just say "NO".

Thats the whole point of this build.. MagSorc since beta has always been pretty much the same skills.. same sets.. same combo, same weapon setup etc. It made it very dull and boring to play.
This build imo is much more effective than meta.. open world.. meta can def do better in 1v1 situations against a STAM toon, but against a experienced mag toon? This build would win just because of the amount of damage it can throw out

A " meta" magsorc will deal more damage,
First because they have proper CP allocation,
Second they don't have to stop any Kind of damage every 4 seconds just because they don't have any damage with their weaves on the back bar while also having the option just to stay in the front bar to keep damaging the enemy
Third they have higher damage because they use sets that buff their weave damage
Fourth if they run necro + shadowrend they will have better stronger shields, better necro uptime and the strongest ST magicka damage set

And that is just why a normal build is better damage wise, don't even get me started on sustain both magicka and Stamina wise and the loss of survivability with 16k health

I have fought PLENTY of "meta" magsorcs, and they deal no where near as the same damage as i do. Theyre frags hit for about how hard my Elemental hits for.
I have never had trouble sustaining on magicka and stam either. Idk why any Magsorc would need really more than 1600 recov with no pot. 1400 is perfectly fine as well.

Ive dueled plenty of "meta" MagSorcs on PC NA and some well known MagSorcs too.. the best MagSorc ive done a proper duel with is with Matt from Known Sh*tters, he runs Shadow Rend, Necro and Juli or Spinners.. beat him 4 outta the 5 times weve dueled.

Once you learn to play a build, it doesnt matter what the recovery is (As long as its at minimal for the class to do well) , doesnt matter about the weave etc.
My Hardened ward on back bar is 15k exactly as well.. front bar i get 13k WITH necro proc... 12k without.. any good player will burn through that very, very fast.. and sure the difference is only 2-3k but im still able to keep my shields up for about 5 seconds before i need to reapply.. hell with my damage output i usually got the enemy on defense for about 80% of the time and i dont need to worry about reapplying shields.

ItsNebula

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just fyi; if you're wondering about naming and shaming; ask the individual if it would be ok to share their name.

If they are ok with it (like you described - just telling an experience) then just add that you have spoken with them and it's cool.

I've never had issues when I've done this

Alright cool ty.. and when it comes to how ive said before (With Matt on how i dueled him 5 times etc etc) is that fine?
Id figure it is since its nothing negative

Waffennacht

ItsNebula wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just fyi; if you're wondering about naming and shaming; ask the individual if it would be ok to share their name.

If they are ok with it (like you described - just telling an experience) then just add that you have spoken with them and it's cool.

I've never had issues when I've done this

Alright cool ty.. and when it comes to how ive said before (With Matt on how i dueled him 5 times etc etc) is that fine?
Id figure it is since its nothing negative

That's fine

It's the obvious being a jerk type things that are a no-go; I couldn't define it; but we all know what's inappropriate - i.e. "exposed N00bz!" Not allowed.

Aedaryl

ItsNebula wrote: »

Beating a magsorc isn't hard at all, it's more a question of time than a question of build.

Being fading by harness is also ez, what will you do when you will face true good stamina players damaging you with S&B and healing for near 5k/s ?

You will cry because hardened melt every 2s second by a LA/Heroic slash/Bash, and you will never be able to sustain it and never be able to 100->0 the tanky damage build.

Pressure is what make meta tanky damage build die, and even a classical sorc with enough sustain and LA perfect pressure can't kill them, their hot are just too strong and the bust too much counterable.

Lexxypwns

I dOn’T nEeD tO wOrRy AbOuT rEaPpLyInG sHiElDs.

BohnT

ItsNebula wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I stopped playing my Mag Sorc largely because it's boring - hard to vary builds and way too "meta" driven. I like the idea of what the OP is doing in trying to bring some variation - but the delivery of the message is what is making me just say "NO".

Thats the whole point of this build.. MagSorc since beta has always been pretty much the same skills.. same sets.. same combo, same weapon setup etc. It made it very dull and boring to play.
This build imo is much more effective than meta.. open world.. meta can def do better in 1v1 situations against a STAM toon, but against a experienced mag toon? This build would win just because of the amount of damage it can throw out

A " meta" magsorc will deal more damage,
First because they have proper CP allocation,
Second they don't have to stop any Kind of damage every 4 seconds just because they don't have any damage with their weaves on the back bar while also having the option just to stay in the front bar to keep damaging the enemy
Third they have higher damage because they use sets that buff their weave damage
Fourth if they run necro + shadowrend they will have better stronger shields, better necro uptime and the strongest ST magicka damage set

And that is just why a normal build is better damage wise, don't even get me started on sustain both magicka and Stamina wise and the loss of survivability with 16k health

I have fought PLENTY of "meta" magsorcs, and they deal no where near as the same damage as i do. Theyre frags hit for about how hard my Elemental hits for.
I have never had trouble sustaining on magicka and stam either. Idk why any Magsorc would need really more than 1600 recov with no pot. 1400 is perfectly fine as well.

Ive dueled plenty of "meta" MagSorcs on PC NA and some well known MagSorcs too.. the best MagSorc ive done a proper duel with is with Matt from Known Sh*tters, he runs Shadow Rend, Necro and Juli or Spinners.. beat him 4 outta the 5 times weve dueled.

Once you learn to play a build, it doesnt matter what the recovery is (As long as its at minimal for the class to do well) , doesnt matter about the weave etc.
My Hardened ward on back bar is 15k exactly as well.. front bar i get 13k WITH necro proc... 12k without.. any good player will burn through that very, very fast.. and sure the difference is only 2-3k but im still able to keep my shields up for about 5 seconds before i need to reapply.. hell with my damage output i usually got the enemy on defense for about 80% of the time and i dont need to worry about reapplying shields.

It doesn't matter if their frags deal less damage when they deal more damage with their weaves which are huge part of the overall damage output.

I have no idea who's the sorc you keep talking about but if anyone manages to lose with a shadowrend in a 1v1 hecan't be considered good especially in a sorc mirror match up with harness.
What i do know is that you say from yourself that you are at a huge disadvantage vs stambuilds which is a huge part of the playerbase which means one single good player will end your 1vX in no time so will any ravage stampoison or anyone who is able to CC you and is mentally capable of blocking your heavy attacks

It's not about your shieldsize you have to reapply your shields earlier than on the last gcd because if you get one random stun you are gone because your shields run out and you have 16k health.

Feanor

I just don’t buy you win a 1v3 vs competent players with this. Granted, you don’t win that with a meta Sorc either - but that’s beside the point. I’ll give you that the build is something other than the stale Sorc meta, but that’s about it. As you say yourself:

unless youre a MagSorc, or a more experienced player, itll take a few burst combo attempts to kill them.

It’s the same on any other Sorc. It’s the best Noob killer in the game.

Gnozo

16k health in pvp? 11k stam?

Oh, wow. Never gonna win a 1v1 against a good sorc who CCs on cooldown and is using mines so you cant heavy attack.

Biro123

Gnozo wrote: »

16k health in pvp? 11k stam?

Oh, wow. Never gonna win a 1v1 against a good sorc who CCs on cooldown and is using mines so you cant heavy attack.

Shouldn't lose either.

11k stam with no extra recov is fine in CP with enough cost-reduction for sustaining break-free only - as long as you have the discipline to not dodge (even to break roots) - The right Engine Guardian proc should let you throw in the odd dodge or dark-deal too.

Gnozo

Biro123 wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

16k health in pvp? 11k stam?

Oh, wow. Never gonna win a 1v1 against a good sorc who CCs on cooldown and is using mines so you cant heavy attack.

Shouldn't lose either.

11k stam with no extra recov is fine in CP with enough cost-reduction for sustaining break-free only - as long as you have the discipline to not dodge (even to break roots) - The right Engine Guardian proc should let you throw in the odd dodge or dark-deal too.

Maybe in a 1v1 when you never roll dodge but he is claiming to easily 1vX with this. And i highly doubt this.

1vX means perma snare, root and CC. And you wont do this with 11k stam. And Engine Guardian cant be taken as a reliable way for stam sustain or magicks sustain.

I run 50k magicka, 21k health and 15k stam in pvp. With 1.5 magicka rec (3k with lich) and 1.1k stam recovery. Dodge roll is really important in 1vX cause it provides the best form of mitigation. You need stam to break free, dodge roll out of root and dark conversion. No way you can 1vX some average players who know how to pvp.

Maybe some cp 80 who just joined pvp for the first time.

Biro123

Gnozo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

16k health in pvp? 11k stam?

Oh, wow. Never gonna win a 1v1 against a good sorc who CCs on cooldown and is using mines so you cant heavy attack.

Shouldn't lose either.

11k stam with no extra recov is fine in CP with enough cost-reduction for sustaining break-free only - as long as you have the discipline to not dodge (even to break roots) - The right Engine Guardian proc should let you throw in the odd dodge or dark-deal too.

Maybe in a 1v1 when you never roll dodge but he is claiming to easily 1vX with this. And i highly doubt this.

1vX means perma snare, root and CC. And you wont do this with 11k stam. And Engine Guardian cant be taken as a reliable way for stam sustain or magicks sustain.

I run 50k magicka, 21k health and 15k stam in pvp. With 1.5 magicka rec (3k with lich) and 1.1k stam recovery. Dodge roll is really important in 1vX cause it provides the best form of mitigation. You need stam to break free, dodge roll out of root and dark conversion. No way you can 1vX some average players who know how to pvp.

Maybe some cp 80 who just joined pvp for the first time.

I'm just responding to your 1v1 comment.. I said nothing about 1vX..

Gnozo

Biro123 wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

16k health in pvp? 11k stam?

Oh, wow. Never gonna win a 1v1 against a good sorc who CCs on cooldown and is using mines so you cant heavy attack.

Shouldn't lose either.

11k stam with no extra recov is fine in CP with enough cost-reduction for sustaining break-free only - as long as you have the discipline to not dodge (even to break roots) - The right Engine Guardian proc should let you throw in the odd dodge or dark-deal too.

Maybe in a 1v1 when you never roll dodge but he is claiming to easily 1vX with this. And i highly doubt this.

1vX means perma snare, root and CC. And you wont do this with 11k stam. And Engine Guardian cant be taken as a reliable way for stam sustain or magicks sustain.

I run 50k magicka, 21k health and 15k stam in pvp. With 1.5 magicka rec (3k with lich) and 1.1k stam recovery. Dodge roll is really important in 1vX cause it provides the best form of mitigation. You need stam to break free, dodge roll out of root and dark conversion. No way you can 1vX some average players who know how to pvp.

Maybe some cp 80 who just joined pvp for the first time.

I'm just responding to your 1v1 comment.. I said nothing about 1vX..

I admitted that maybe its possible in 1v1 but you would struggle a lot. And in addition to this i mentioned that this build wont be any good in 1vX but i never assumed that you said its good in 1vX.

Hutch679

"Oh crap! Everyone is picking apart my build. Quick post defensive comments! Deflect! Deflect!" - @ItsNebula

Septimus_Magna

The gear and skill combination doesnt really add up for me.

Axiom doesnt buff light attacks/reach/elemental weapon/ice comet plus it does little for shield size. You want to buff your strongest skills so you really miss out when you dont buff your ult dmg. You'd probably get more dmg from Julianos because it buffs all your dmg skills.

You only get sustain from EG, thats 2/3 of the time not magicka so I dont really know you sustain in out-numbered situations. Dark Conversion is easy to interrupt when you cannot LoS so its often not a reliable way to restore magicka. Besides, you'll be running into stam sustain issues if you have to break-free or dodge often.

Necropotence also works really well with Shadowrend, Lich on the back bar for sustain and Willpower/Master staff on the front bar to get more dmg. Tri-stat food and tri-stat glyphs on big armor pieces helps to get to 16k stamina.