ZOS — PLEASE do not neglect the older Arena weapons in Murkmire (vMA, vDSA, etc.)

Emma_Overload

TheYKcid wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I'm all for giving a boost to older Arena weapons. Though with Summerset changes, I'm not sure if simply returning old 1-piece bonuses would be enough, because this time around, 1-piece Arena bonus will be competing with 4- and 5-piece bonuses of a five-piece set combined. So if one was to replace, say, Hunding's axe + dagger with vMA Cruel Flurry set, then vMA's bonus better be worth the loss of 833 critical and 299 damage.

(Granted, yet to see if sustain changes aren't like "sustain buff" slap on the face given earlier to DKs, else I still won't be able to sustain Cruel Flurry rotation.)

@John_Falstaff To be fair, you're not strictly losing a full 4 & 5pc bonus, because were you to frontbar an Arena wep, you'd probably pair it with agility/willpower jewels, which give the equivalent of 2.82 times of a standard 1-4pc bonus.

So, combining that with the new 1pc bonus on the Arena wep, the actual trade off is:

Loss: 5pc bonus
Gain: Ability-altering effect + 82% of 1-4pc bonus

82% of a 1-4pc WD bonus is about 105 WD, to put things in perspective, so it's really not a bad trade at all. Ultimately 5/5/2 will have the best raw stats or procs, but I think Arena + agi/willpower will be in a very good spot after this change.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

LOL, you RUIN your argument in the original post with this second comment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, in my opinion. It's totally hypocritical to beg for a "fix" for the Arena and Master's weapons, and then turn around and screw over imperfect Asylum staff owners, who are ALREADY overly nerfed compared to other Asylum weapon users.

Don't even bother making these selfish threads. It's obvious you don't care about what's fair or balanced and only want buffs for your own personal gear.

If you'd read the thread you'd have noticed I supported giving imperfect weapons the same bonus as perfected ones, which is actually a significant buff to the destro. But then again, I'm talking to someone who supported nerfing arena weapons on the basis that you were unable to obtain them (would link your post except a moderator removed it for baiting lmao).

That's not exactly what I said, IIRC. I was simply happy that they got effectively nerfed because it meant that they were no longer as likely to be BiS for PvP builds. I've never needed them in PvE, even though I can see how they can be useful. I stand by my belief that it's ridiculously unfair to gate desirable PvP gear behind PvE grinds that take weeks or even months.

I notice this is the second time you've brought this comment up, by the way. What's your beef?

TheYKcid

Emma_Overload wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I'm all for giving a boost to older Arena weapons. Though with Summerset changes, I'm not sure if simply returning old 1-piece bonuses would be enough, because this time around, 1-piece Arena bonus will be competing with 4- and 5-piece bonuses of a five-piece set combined. So if one was to replace, say, Hunding's axe + dagger with vMA Cruel Flurry set, then vMA's bonus better be worth the loss of 833 critical and 299 damage.

(Granted, yet to see if sustain changes aren't like "sustain buff" slap on the face given earlier to DKs, else I still won't be able to sustain Cruel Flurry rotation.)

@John_Falstaff To be fair, you're not strictly losing a full 4 & 5pc bonus, because were you to frontbar an Arena wep, you'd probably pair it with agility/willpower jewels, which give the equivalent of 2.82 times of a standard 1-4pc bonus.

So, combining that with the new 1pc bonus on the Arena wep, the actual trade off is:

Loss: 5pc bonus
Gain: Ability-altering effect + 82% of 1-4pc bonus

82% of a 1-4pc WD bonus is about 105 WD, to put things in perspective, so it's really not a bad trade at all. Ultimately 5/5/2 will have the best raw stats or procs, but I think Arena + agi/willpower will be in a very good spot after this change.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

LOL, you RUIN your argument in the original post with this second comment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, in my opinion. It's totally hypocritical to beg for a "fix" for the Arena and Master's weapons, and then turn around and screw over imperfect Asylum staff owners, who are ALREADY overly nerfed compared to other Asylum weapon users.

Don't even bother making these selfish threads. It's obvious you don't care about what's fair or balanced and only want buffs for your own personal gear.

If you'd read the thread you'd have noticed I supported giving imperfect weapons the same bonus as perfected ones, which is actually a significant buff to the destro. But then again, I'm talking to someone who supported nerfing arena weapons on the basis that you were unable to obtain them (would link your post except a moderator removed it for baiting lmao).

That's not exactly what I said, IIRC. I was simply happy that they got effectively nerfed because it meant that they were no longer as likely to be BiS for PvP builds. I've never needed them in PvE, even though I can see how they can be useful. I stand by my belief that it's ridiculously unfair to gate desirable PvP gear behind PvE grinds that take weeks or even months.

I notice this is the second time you've brought this comment up, by the way. What's your beef?

In all honesty, no beef on my end. But I was highly amused at being called selfish by you, for two reasons:

1. given your past comments ("nerf everything I don't have!")
2. given the fact that I don't possess a single perfected Asylum weapon, so asking for imperfects to be excluded from the buff benefits me personally in no way whatsoever

In all cases I've provided well-substantiated arguments for making changes in the interest of the game's health, only for you to continually retort with ad hominems, all the while providing zero counterarguments of any actual substance.

So I'll flip that question around and ask,

what's your beef?

Emma_Overload

TheYKcid wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I'm all for giving a boost to older Arena weapons. Though with Summerset changes, I'm not sure if simply returning old 1-piece bonuses would be enough, because this time around, 1-piece Arena bonus will be competing with 4- and 5-piece bonuses of a five-piece set combined. So if one was to replace, say, Hunding's axe + dagger with vMA Cruel Flurry set, then vMA's bonus better be worth the loss of 833 critical and 299 damage.

(Granted, yet to see if sustain changes aren't like "sustain buff" slap on the face given earlier to DKs, else I still won't be able to sustain Cruel Flurry rotation.)

@John_Falstaff To be fair, you're not strictly losing a full 4 & 5pc bonus, because were you to frontbar an Arena wep, you'd probably pair it with agility/willpower jewels, which give the equivalent of 2.82 times of a standard 1-4pc bonus.

So, combining that with the new 1pc bonus on the Arena wep, the actual trade off is:

Loss: 5pc bonus
Gain: Ability-altering effect + 82% of 1-4pc bonus

82% of a 1-4pc WD bonus is about 105 WD, to put things in perspective, so it's really not a bad trade at all. Ultimately 5/5/2 will have the best raw stats or procs, but I think Arena + agi/willpower will be in a very good spot after this change.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

LOL, you RUIN your argument in the original post with this second comment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, in my opinion. It's totally hypocritical to beg for a "fix" for the Arena and Master's weapons, and then turn around and screw over imperfect Asylum staff owners, who are ALREADY overly nerfed compared to other Asylum weapon users.

Don't even bother making these selfish threads. It's obvious you don't care about what's fair or balanced and only want buffs for your own personal gear.

If you'd read the thread you'd have noticed I supported giving imperfect weapons the same bonus as perfected ones, which is actually a significant buff to the destro. But then again, I'm talking to someone who supported nerfing arena weapons on the basis that you were unable to obtain them (would link your post except a moderator removed it for baiting lmao).

That's not exactly what I said, IIRC. I was simply happy that they got effectively nerfed because it meant that they were no longer as likely to be BiS for PvP builds. I've never needed them in PvE, even though I can see how they can be useful. I stand by my belief that it's ridiculously unfair to gate desirable PvP gear behind PvE grinds that take weeks or even months.

I notice this is the second time you've brought this comment up, by the way. What's your beef?

In all honesty, no beef on my end. But I was highly amused at being called selfish by you, for two reasons:

[*]given your past comments ("nerf everything I don't have!")
[*] given the fact that I don't possess a single perfected Asylum weapon, so asking for imperfects to be excluded from the buff benefits me personally in no way whatsoever


In all cases I've provided well-substantiated arguments for making changes in the interest of the game's health, only for you to continually retort with ad hominems, all the while providing zero counterarguments of any actual substance.

So I'll flip that question around and ask,

what's your beef?

You're quoting me with a quote I never made, that's my beef. I never said "nerf everything I don't have!". You're putting words in my mouth that are your words, not mine. Since my original comments on these weapon sets are apparently not available, I offered an explanation of my feelings on the topic in my comment above. If you want argue about this issue, you are welcome to use that comment as a starting point.

Please don't drag up past comments of mine that exist only in your own mind. Your obsession with my old comments is starting to get kind of creepy!

TheYKcid

So now I'm selfish and creepy. Wonderful.

Either way, these comments have drifted well off topic, so I'm content to leave it at that. However, if you'd like to continue discussing the merits of how the imperfect Asylums should be handled, and why, then I'd be more than happy to engage.

John_Falstaff

@TheYKcid , back to topic - yes, that's true, comparing "5pc Hunding's vs. 3pc Agility + arena weapon" stands to reason as opposed to 3pc Hunding's. But it's difficult to judge about cost of missed opportunity, it would wind down to differences between Agility and Advancing Yokeda, or Agility and Ravager, or what else had to be dropped in order to use the arena set.

As an aside, I would enjoy seeing more diverse assortment of 3-piece sets filling same slots as Agility/Willpower/..., that would enable more diverse builds in combination with (hopefully revived) arena sets.

TheYKcid

Actually, there are already a fair number of 3pc sets ingame:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Jewelry_Sets

What's perplexing is that, unlike agi/WP, they largely give standard 1-4pc bonus values, making them decidedly uncompetitive.

Instead of adding new sets (which seems to rarely end well these days, balance-wise), perhaps ZOS should consider equalising the other 3pc sets we already do have.

Just my personal preference, of course. I agree that something should be done either way.

John_Falstaff

@TheYKcid , thank you for the link; I haven't even heard about fair share of those - that tells something about how relevant most of them are, indeed. ^^ Refreshing them would be a good thing, and would play well with new and updated arena weapons.

goldenflameslinger

I like the idea of imperfect version dropping on normal, in general. I agree that harder content should equal, greater rewards. However, it sucks that more casual (or mid-skilled) players will never get say VMA weapons because they don't have the time to devote to it. I would be happy with an imperfect nMA bow....or even an imperfect Kena helm.

I also agree with the token system. That would be a nice addition, maybe with the next chapter as the big draw card to buy it.

ccfeeling

Vma, vdsa weapons, it was not easy, we deserve to get back the 1 pc bonus.
As imperfect weapon, sad to say, there is no effort at all even u dont know the mechanics, i have no idea who make this system.

TheYKcid

So the Murkmire PTS notes are out, and it appears ZOS completely neglected to add anything to the existing arena weapons.

Having read through the rest of the notes, however, I can confidently say this is the least of our worries. Good luck everyone.

TheYKcid

@Masel92

Any chance you could remind ZOS about this issue during the upcoming rep meeting? I was just watching @Alcast's stream and he also strongly agrees that the old Arena weapons need their 1pc bonus back for balance reasons.

Masel

TheYKcid wrote: »

@Masel92

Any chance you could remind ZOS about this issue during the upcoming rep meeting? I was just watching @Alcast's stream and he also strongly agrees that the old Arena weapons need their 1pc bonus back for balance reasons.

Wanted to do that anyway.

TheYKcid

I love you

Hope the meeting goes well.