Why are cost increase poisons still in the game?

Zer0oo

I am seriously wondering why something this broken op is still in the game. Is it because ppl don't have to use cheat engine to get such an extrem advantage? Or is it just that the balance team has no idea about what they are doing?
30% better sustain than your opponent no set or anything else gives you that advantage. It is not only sustain in you primary resource it also increases the cost of block, breakfree....
especial "balanced" in no-cp like bg.

Get rid of them! PLEASE

SmackNCheese

Poisons are here to stay. ZoS has made that clear. A constructive comment would be advice on how to tune them for nCP and CP campaigns. Perhaps decreasing the cost amp in BGs and nCP

Zer0oo

how would you balance them if they are even in cp pvp on the lvl of cheat engine broken?

SmackNCheese

They aren’t broken in CP. As a mag sorc it forces me to hold off spamming expensive abilities while debuffed, for 3-5 seconds before targeting that individual because my resources can’t take much more strain.

Zer0oo

So the counter to them is not to cast any heal, damage or defensive skills for more than 50% of the fight?

Thogard

Zer0oo wrote: »

So the counter to them is not to cast any heal, damage or defensive skills for more than 50% of the fight?

Just do one extra heavy attack... you spend one less GCD on a skill and you gain resources from the heavy attack.

The balance issue is that cost poisons can apply to break free and roll dodge. I’m ok with roll dodge, but a break fee costing 8.5k because of a poison is a bit excessive in no cp.that stun locks the mag toon.

Break free should not be affected by Stam poisons.

TheYKcid

Channeling a staff heavy for 3 full seconds as a magsorc under pressure makes you a dead magsorc.

Aedaryl

This, heavy attack and the off balance effect and all the buffs that come with is a
privilege only stam user can have access.

This is another reason why Stam > Mag in PvP.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Resource Poisons were implemented as a counter for players that had builds that could:

1) Wear Heavy Armor...

2) Hit hard as hell...

3) While simultaneously possessing seemingly infinite resources...


These type of builds still exist (albeit with lesser damage and excellent [but not infinite] resources)...

As a result, Resource Poisions are still needed...


Please keep in mind that these Poisons used to be 60% Cost Increase (and that could only slow down the above infinite sustain builds...lol)

If you have a proper build, you can manage against them at 30% Cost Increase (which is their current value)...

DarkAedin

Aedaryl wrote: »

This, heavy attack and the off balance effect and all the buffs that come with is a
privilege only stam user can have access.

This is another reason why Stam > Mag in PvP.

Not in no cp, also ur offballance affects any weapon type for the increased heavy attack.
So you're wrong. Sorry!

DarkAedin

@Thogard just wondering, are u aware that the poisons are stackable?

Zer0oo

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Resource Poisons were implemented as a counter for players that had builds that could:

1) Wear Heavy Armor...

2) Hit hard as hell...

3) While simultaneously possessing seemingly infinite resources...


These type of builds still exist (albeit with lesser damage and excellent [but not infinite] resources)...

As a result, Resource Poisions are still needed...


Please keep in mind that these Poisons used to be 60% Cost Increase (and that could only slow down the above infinite sustain builds...lol)

If you have a proper build, you can manage against them at 30% Cost Increase (which is their current value)...

Actually they are the least affected by it since their defense is passive due to tankyness and not active like using a shield or dodge and try to out-heal the incoming damage on a not that tanky target. Play more defensive with less using skills does not really work on a light or medium armor build which main defense is active skill usage(lets exclude nb since they actually can). And it is not like they do not have a bad uptime: 50%-60% of the fight you should not use skills, dodge roll, block or break free?

The value of cost increase is absolutely way too high. Look at any sustain set what they offer 8% mag cost from seducer vs 30% for both stam and mag drain sources.

If you really think cost increase poisons are not broken duel a player that is about your lvl with it and see your self.

Crixus8000

I am fine with poisons but cost increase poisons and the ones that root/snare you are just op.

The root/snare poisons go through cc immunity. Many times I have been fighting multiple opponents, use forward momentum to escape then get snared while it's up and can't move anywhere then die. Why do they ignore immunity ? It makes no sense.

And cost increase poisons in no cp are just way overtuned. Sustain is already much harder here.

KingExecration

My issue is fighting players like healers or something that spam resto heavies and tries to proc poisons on you the whole fight. That is one of the worst things because they have no other role or debuff to apply to you other than their skyrim heavy attack build with 30% cost increase.

Masel

I used moon hunter+assassin's guile with a perfected asylum staff on magsorc in bgs for a week and simply couldn't continue because it felt so unfair that I felt bad for anyone who got hit by poisons+all three status effects... These poisons are really insane, especially if you use assassin's guile (6 second duration on health drain, stamina and magicka cost increase plus resources restored to you)...

ak_pvp

They should exist, but not like this. Instead of 30% increase which is massive. Change it to something like 100/s drain.

raasdal

My only concern with them is that they should not increase cost of break free, and they should have a much much clearer visual. I honestly have no clue when i am poisoned, and when i am not. I would have to track the specific debuff with an addon to know it. That is the most OP part imo. That it is an almost invisible debuff that you only find out about AFTER you run out of resources.

Kadoin

Masel92 wrote: »

I used moon hunter+assassin's guile with a perfected asylum staff on magsorc in bgs for a week and simply couldn't continue because it felt so unfair that I felt bad for anyone who got hit by poisons+all three status effects... These poisons are really insane, especially if you use assassin's guile (6 second duration on health drain, stamina and magicka cost increase plus resources restored to you)...

ZOS approves of your build though!

Zelos

Because poisons are for min-max experts.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Zer0oo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Resource Poisons were implemented as a counter for players that had builds that could:

1) Wear Heavy Armor...

2) Hit hard as hell...

3) While simultaneously possessing seemingly infinite resources...


These type of builds still exist (albeit with lesser damage and excellent [but not infinite] resources)...

As a result, Resource Poisions are still needed...


Please keep in mind that these Poisons used to be 60% Cost Increase (and that could only slow down the above infinite sustain builds...lol)

If you have a proper build, you can manage against them at 30% Cost Increase (which is their current value)...

Actually they are the least affected by it since their defense is passive due to tankyness and not active like using a shield or dodge and try to out-heal the incoming damage on a not that tanky target. Play more defensive with less using skills does not really work on a light or medium armor build which main defense is active skill usage(lets exclude nb since they actually can). And it is not like they do not have a bad uptime: 50%-60% of the fight you should not use skills, dodge roll, block or break free?

The value of cost increase is absolutely way too high. Look at any sustain set what they offer 8% mag cost from seducer vs 30% for both stam and mag drain sources.

If you really think cost increase poisons are not broken duel a player that is about your lvl with it and see your self.

Oh I know very well the Power of the Resource Poisons; they are especially strong against players who haven't designed their characters to sustain themselves while Posioned...

There lies the key; you have to have a build that allows you to "keep your head above water" while Posioned...

Sometimes sustaining while Posioned involves more than just your gear (although that is a big part of it); you very well may have to break LoS and use a combo of mobility and the environment to your advantage to do this...


But being able to endure while Resource Poisoned is very doable nowadays...

Ragnarock41

TheYKcid wrote: »

Channeling a staff heavy for 3 full seconds as a magsorc under pressure makes you a dead magsorc.

last time I checked resto heavies were widely common with enough extra mag to make up for the shields you're gonna burn.

Defilted

I do not find any issues with getting this debuff in CP campaigns. I do not play non cp because I do not see the point after earning all my cp.

I agree the best solution is a separate battle spirit buff that makes the poisons less affective in non cp.

usmguy1234

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Channeling a staff heavy for 3 full seconds as a magsorc under pressure makes you a dead magsorc.

last time I checked resto heavies were widely common with enough extra mag to make up for the shields you're gonna burn.

Yep.... exactly one shield.. awesome.

Siliziumdioxid

the really unfair stuff is the poison that only increases stam cost.... especially on magicka builds... you can have 1.5k stam reg and you are still not able to break free indefinitely... combine that with a magicka templar that has you eclipsed or that stamina stuns that last 5 seconds... even on a templar with cleanse that is gg ... since those guys use cc exactly when that poison procs...

Thogard

DarkAedin wrote: »

@Thogard just wondering, are u aware that the poisons are stackable?

In what way?

gresiac

U can use them to, whiner.

ItsNebula

Zer0oo wrote: »

how would you balance them if they are even in cp pvp on the lvl of cheat engine broken?

Its called "L2P"

Most people dont even notice it.. fix your build maybe?

Zer0oo

Thogard wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

@Thogard just wondering, are u aware that the poisons are stackable?

In what way?

They use to stack if you use different ones like restore stam and just normal stam cost increase, but not sure if they changed it. (meaning 30%+30% cost increase)



@ItsNebula please fight some player that is about your play lvl once with and once without the other player using cost increase poisons and you see what it makes for a difference. (assuming you are an okish player if you just zerg and spam light attacks well just go back to your zerg) Also if you think you actually can build to sustain cost increase poisons please give me the build but 5xalteration master does not count.


There is a reason they are banned from every duel tournament without anyone questioning it and every good pvp player with self-respect does not use them because of how broken they are.

ItsNebula

Zer0oo wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

@Thogard just wondering, are u aware that the poisons are stackable?

In what way?

They use to stack if you use different ones like restore stam and just normal stam cost increase, but not sure if they changed it. (meaning 30%+30% cost increase)



@ItsNebula please fight some player that is about your play lvl once with and once without the other player using cost increase poisons and you see what it makes for a difference. (assuming you are an okish player if you just zerg and spam light attacks well just go back to your zerg) Also if you think you actually can build to sustain cost increase poisons please give me the build but 5xalteration master does not count.


There is a reason they are banned from every duel tournament without anyone questioning it and every good pvp player with self-respect does not use them because of how broken they are.

Ive fought plenty of very skilled players on PC NA when theyre using cost posions.. sure its harder, but its not as hard as some people make it out to be. Hell, even when im ina 1 or 2vX situation and the zergs using cost posions, its still not a biggy.
If you know how to manage your resources and you have good damage.. its not a huge issue

Soris

Maybe not a big issue for light or medium armor builds, but when you are in heavy armor magicka dk or templar it is very game changing. 4.5k heals become 30% more costy and 7k~ stamina for break free and dodge.

brandonv516

Poisons should increase the cost of stamina and magicka skills.

Sprinting, dodge rolling, breaking free, blocking, crouching, bashing, jumping, using emotes, etc. should be exempt.