Stamina shouldn’t be a resource for skills attack

NewBlacksmurf

While there are a few posts in spite of others, on a serious thought, stamina should not be a resource used for skill attacks.

Sprinting, heavy attack, blocking...sure

Any skill should use only Magicka because many are not possible without a power. I don’t recall TES having another main resource

KISS

SilverIce58

Then what would they cost, in your opinion, if not stamina?

Salvas_Aren

Steel tornado will cost magicka, I can totally see that coming.

NewBlacksmurf

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Then what would they cost, in your opinion, if not stamina?

@SilverIce58 Magicka
Solves all the balance arguments and makes logical sense

Ppl shooting 58 arrows in aoe, or flashing across the room striking someone, disappearing and reappearing, using sharp objects or siphon or smash someone with a shield that causes some other effect...it’s all magic

Naughty_Ryder

You’re a wizard, Harry!

SilverIce58

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Then what would they cost, in your opinion, if not stamina?

@SilverIce58 Magicka
Solves all the balance arguments and makes logical sense

Ppl shooting 58 arrows in aoe, or flashing across the room striking someone, disappearing and reappearing, using sharp objects or siphon or smash someone with a shield that causes some other effect...it’s all magic

So uppercutting with a greatsword should cost magicka? Or sniping with a bow? Or low slashing an enemy?

jedtb16_ESO

a weapon attack costing magika?

NewBlacksmurf

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

a weapon attack costing magika?

@jedtb16_ESO

No, “skills” yes not weapon attacks

NewBlacksmurf

SilverIce58 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Then what would they cost, in your opinion, if not stamina?

@SilverIce58 Magicka
Solves all the balance arguments and makes logical sense

Ppl shooting 58 arrows in aoe, or flashing across the room striking someone, disappearing and reappearing, using sharp objects or siphon or smash someone with a shield that causes some other effect...it’s all magic

So uppercutting with a greatsword should cost magicka? Or sniping with a bow? Or low slashing an enemy?

@SilverIce58
Let me ask you a real question in my answer.

Have you ever seen it or known of any physical ability to do those things without actually having some form of enhancement (magic) apply ?

I think snipe is obviously magic as we are often running and jumping around. No one is actually sniping anything. After all the enemy and others all see you

Uppercut...no one is strong enough to swing a giant blade in such a way that it’s going to knock another hero feet in the air without cutting them in half (that skill is literally dumb in the animation and reality) unless it’s magic

Low slash...makes sense if you have a sword equip but if you can explain how ppl are doing that with a mace, or none sharp 1-hand item I’ll consider it a light attack and not a skill at all.

My thought on all the “skills that are stamina now” is if you want to get really
picky, many of these things should be light and heavy defaults for specific weapon types and not a “skill” however let’s call it an ability if some different weapon unlock progression were to apply.

Make sense?

Salvas_Aren

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

a weapon attack costing magika?

@jedtb16_ESO

No, “skills” yes not weapon attacks

Well, if you want to move 2 swords towards your opponent, which physical sorce of power enherent to your body will be used?

Magicka?

SilverIce58

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Then what would they cost, in your opinion, if not stamina?

@SilverIce58 Magicka
Solves all the balance arguments and makes logical sense

Ppl shooting 58 arrows in aoe, or flashing across the room striking someone, disappearing and reappearing, using sharp objects or siphon or smash someone with a shield that causes some other effect...it’s all magic

So uppercutting with a greatsword should cost magicka? Or sniping with a bow? Or low slashing an enemy?

@SilverIce58
Let me ask you a real question in my answer.

Have you ever seen it or known of any physical ability to do those things without actually having some form of enhancement (magic) apply ?

I think snipe is obviously magic as we are often running and jumping around. No one is actually sniping anything. After all the enemy and others all see you

Uppercut...no one is strong enough to swing a giant blade in such a way that it’s going to knock another hero feet in the air without cutting them in half (that skill is literally dumb in the animation and reality) unless it’s magic

Low slash...makes sense if you have a sword equip but if you can explain how ppl are doing that with a mace, or none sharp 1-hand item I’ll consider it a light attack and not a skill at all.

My thought on all the “skills that are stamina now” is if you want to get really
picky, many of these things should be light and heavy defaults for specific weapon types and not a “skill” however let’s call it an ability if some different weapon unlock progression were to apply.

Make sense?

What makes sense is that its a game. I dont know if you know this, but games with magic aren't supposed to be super realistic. If a greatsword uppercutting an enemy should split them in half, then using a channeled lightning HA should effectively kill a person in one hit, as that much electricity would overload the body.

kadar

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Then what would they cost, in your opinion, if not stamina?

@SilverIce58 Magicka
Solves all the balance arguments and makes logical sense

Ppl shooting 58 arrows in aoe, or flashing across the room striking someone, disappearing and reappearing, using sharp objects or siphon or smash someone with a shield that causes some other effect...it’s all magic

So uppercutting with a greatsword should cost magicka? Or sniping with a bow? Or low slashing an enemy?

@SilverIce58
Let me ask you a real question in my answer.

Have you ever seen it or known of any physical ability to do those things without actually having some form of enhancement (magic) apply ?

I think snipe is obviously magic as we are often running and jumping around. No one is actually sniping anything. After all the enemy and others all see you

Uppercut...no one is strong enough to swing a giant blade in such a way that it’s going to knock another hero feet in the air without cutting them in half (that skill is literally dumb in the animation and reality) unless it’s magic

Low slash...makes sense if you have a sword equip but if you can explain how ppl are doing that with a mace, or none sharp 1-hand item I’ll consider it a light attack and not a skill at all.

My thought on all the “skills that are stamina now” is if you want to get really
picky, many of these things should be light and heavy defaults for specific weapon types and not a “skill” however let’s call it an ability if some different weapon unlock progression were to apply.

Make sense?

Shooting someone with a bow, moving target or not, does not take magic.

Neither uppercut nor wrecking blow (a morph) knocks the target into the air. According the lore of the game we are heros without souls that fight against gods And yet we are not physically powerful enough to lift a scamp from it's feet with a two-handed maul?

You wouldn't use magic to "low slash" with any weapon type.

What is the point of this idea? Troll? You would rewrite the entire combat system of the game, remove options, reduce diversity, have ZOS spend all development money on undoing most of the work they have done, ect ect ect just to satisfy some sort of weird immersion preference? Why tho?

coop500

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Steel tornado will cost magicka, I can totally see that coming.

Lucifer again OMG~
But yeah I have no idea what the OP is going on about

Acrolas

This really isn't any better than the obvious parody threads.

Valrien

Why do people CARE! It's the same philophy behind why people think hybrid builds need to exist.

People use magic, big freakin' whoop which resource you use to cast it.

Stamina builds are just straight up hybrids, no ifs ands or buts about it. Hell, some magicka builds are with DW and SnS and crap.

coop500

I know we should make a thread focused around how many Lucifer GIFS we can relate to ESO with~

Nyladreas

I really don't understand the logic of people complaining against OP's idea.

This would bring balance more in line and would allow for far greater and better skillsets and character customisation.

You all need to stop treating this game like some sort of second life.

Immersion is one thing, but being brainwashed by virtual world is another.

NewBlacksmurf

The_Outsider wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Then what would they cost, in your opinion, if not stamina?

@SilverIce58 Magicka
Solves all the balance arguments and makes logical sense

Ppl shooting 58 arrows in aoe, or flashing across the room striking someone, disappearing and reappearing, using sharp objects or siphon or smash someone with a shield that causes some other effect...it’s all magic

So uppercutting with a greatsword should cost magicka? Or sniping with a bow? Or low slashing an enemy?

@SilverIce58
Let me ask you a real question in my answer.

Have you ever seen it or known of any physical ability to do those things without actually having some form of enhancement (magic) apply ?

I think snipe is obviously magic as we are often running and jumping around. No one is actually sniping anything. After all the enemy and others all see you

Uppercut...no one is strong enough to swing a giant blade in such a way that it’s going to knock another hero feet in the air without cutting them in half (that skill is literally dumb in the animation and reality) unless it’s magic

Low slash...makes sense if you have a sword equip but if you can explain how ppl are doing that with a mace, or none sharp 1-hand item I’ll consider it a light attack and not a skill at all.

My thought on all the “skills that are stamina now” is if you want to get really
picky, many of these things should be light and heavy defaults for specific weapon types and not a “skill” however let’s call it an ability if some different weapon unlock progression were to apply.

Make sense?

Shooting someone with a bow, moving target or not, does not take magic.

Neither uppercut nor wrecking blow (a morph) knocks the target into the air. According the lore of the game we are heros without souls that fight against gods And yet we are not physically powerful enough to lift a scamp from it's feet with a two-handed maul?

You wouldn't use magic to "low slash" with any weapon type.

What is the point of this idea? Troll? You would rewrite the entire combat system of the game, remove options, reduce diversity, have ZOS spend all development money on undoing most of the work they have done, ect ect ect just to satisfy some sort of weird immersion preference? Why tho?

@The_Outsider

I think you’re confused.
“Skills” is separate from light and heavy attacks. I’m not suggesting a lot of what you’re writing above.

Above I’m describing some changes where shooting a bow remains light and heavy attacks. You could even throw in a medium attack which would work just like attacks today.

Uppercut and wrecking blow weapon could also be a light or heavy attack type

Nowhere am I suggesting to make illogical changes. I am literally suggesting to remove stamina as a “skill” resource because it’s not working and has put things in a constant change this and that which causes one group or another to complain or be penalized in efforts of balance.

Would I rewrite the entire system.
Actually it’s taking it largely back to how it began with one slight adjustment of incorporating light and heavy attack animations into the original stamina “skills” by specific weapon type.

I will ask you to refrain from suggesting my thoughts are trolling. If you have questions please ask but let’s not name call or insult.

Lastly, ZOS the point of this idea is as a result of starting as a closed beta tester and having played till now. Contrasting those experiences with TES series, some things work and others have not.

This game design was another version of Dark Age of Camelot which later took on a TES skin. There are many changes that have occurred and this is a topic that will also be changed due to the unavoidable balance changes a few times each year

This puts things in a solution oriented phase and further allows adjustment to actually remove the older Veteran system that’s merged within the Champion system to allow the variety you mention in weapon and champion offerings if revised to some extent in my OP and above comments.

Finviuswe

Yup it should

We have mag and stam as the resource pools for skills, the game is, in fact, based upon this idea.

Kikke

There were once a time way way back were everything was magica xD long before morphs or anything were the hybrid were the kings xP Just sayin.

Banana

Maybe they should all cost health

CyrusArya

Sounds like a great way to cut class/build diversity in half and effectively make half the gear sets, mechanics, and sunk development costs in the game obsolete.

Every time a see a post like this it becomes abundantly clear why the devs think these forums are such a joke.

Salvas_Aren

coop500 wrote: »

I know we should make a thread focused around how many Lucifer GIFS we can relate to ESO with~

AbysmalGhul

I think stamina abilities such as roll dodge, block, and running should be a separate meter. Maybe call it endurance? I know stamina and endurance are interchangeable terms , but you get the picture.

Salvas_Aren

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I think stamina abilities such as roll dodge, block, and running should be a separate meter. Maybe call it endurance? I know stamina and endurance are interchangeable terms , but you get the picture.

Maybe an additional use of magicka could be used to balance this?

If not, having the main attack ressource tied to dodge/sprint/sneak/block or not can still be seen as the players decision.

SilverIce58

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I think stamina abilities such as roll dodge, block, and running should be a separate meter. Maybe call it endurance? I know stamina and endurance are interchangeable terms , but you get the picture.

Like how the mounts have their own stamina meter? Eh, I'd support that.

Acrolas

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I know stamina and endurance are interchangeable terms

In game terms, the entire pool of energy is endurance and the amount of energy expended for a specific action is stamina. If your energy pool is 50k and somebody else's is 30k, you have more endurance than they do.

Recovery isn't endurance and if your form isn't particularly good it's not stamina, either. It's a weird form of energy gain in that it doesn't have diminishing returns from use.


My point being, the game simplifies things into magicka, health, and stamina so that a player only need to use a few terms even if they don't understand the more complicated mechanics of what each of those terms represent.

M_Volsung

Ruckly

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

While there are a few posts in spite of others, on a serious thought, stamina should not be a resource used for skill attacks.

Sprinting, heavy attack, blocking...sure

Any skill should use only Magicka because many are not possible without a power. I don’t recall TES having another main resource

KISS

What is magicka? If you say the resource that powers attacks I could just as well say stamina is the resource that powers attacks. If you say magicka is needed to make special effects happen I say why is this so in Tamriel? If you say -->magic<--ka is used for magic I say what is magic, force, ether, spirit in Tamriel? If you say unless you use magicka the animations have to be boring and realistic and put in this little box I say who cares about the box it's my mace and...well it's my mace and I can bash in the little box however I want.

NewBlacksmurf

Ruckly wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

While there are a few posts in spite of others, on a serious thought, stamina should not be a resource used for skill attacks.

Sprinting, heavy attack, blocking...sure

Any skill should use only Magicka because many are not possible without a power. I don’t recall TES having another main resource

KISS

What is magicka? If you say the resource that powers attacks I could just as well say stamina is the resource that powers attacks. If you say magicka is needed to make special effects happen I say why is this so in Tamriel? If you say -->magic<--ka is used for magic I say what is magic, force, ether, spirit in Tamriel? If you say unless you use magicka the animations have to be boring and realistic and put in this little box I say who cares about the box it's my mace and...well it's my mace and I can bash in the little box however I want.

@Ruckly

Have you played the older TES series prior to Skyrim?

bloodthirstyvampire

Ok sure but just allow are light attacks to do 100k per hit