bloodthirsty v arcane

Syiccal

has any one ran the numbers on a magplar. With the buff to RD is it worth running 1 bloodthirsty to squeeze abit more out of it

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

To be clear, bloodthirsty increases ALL damage under 25%, not just executes.

In general, if you are a dps, one bloodthirsty is recommended.

Vrany69

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To be clear, bloodthirsty increases ALL damage under 25%, not just executes.

In general, if you are a dps, one bloodthirsty is recommended.

[snip] why would you use it in any scenario when 75% of damage is way more important???

[Edit for bait.]

Cybercore_Death

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

SilverWF

This thread is not about Heavy Attack builds...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Cybercore_Death thanks for correcting that guy, though I don't think engaging them is the best thing to do. Also the op is asking about mag temp DPS, not magdk, though again your build is fine

Cybercore_Death

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Cybercore_Death thanks for correcting that guy, though I don't think engaging them is the best thing to do. Also the op is asking about mag temp DPS, not magdk, though again your build is fine

I know he's asking about Temps in particular but figured i'd weigh in with how i play the game to show that he shouldn't be put off by comments like the above criticising his questions / choices.

@SilverWF i probably shouldn't engage but i've had to deal with people like that for the 3 and a bit years i've been playing and always found its best to challenge them in the hopes they learn to be nicer to others lol (fools dream i know haha)

pteam

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

getemshauna

Every dd should run 3x BT because it scales multiplicative, makes execute (most dangerous phases of boss fights) much shorter and safer.

OrphanHelgen

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I tried heavy attack shock on mag dk too, its really good in veteran dungeons. The thing is, if you wanna go hardcore raiding it's way behind in single target. I got 42k on 6 mill target with it, but a friend of mine is getting 48k with BiS build which is light attack rotation. So I do agree with you its very good and keep doing it if you like (I like this playstyle too) but it's not the best.

Aurielle

pteam wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

Comments like this are one reason why I’ve stopped running PVE content. 40k is more than sufficient for ANY content in the game. Magblades doing 50k+ are extremely useful for endgame leaderboards, but GTFO with this BS that 40k “isn’t very good.” I’d be thrilled if I found myself tanking a pug group with two DDs pulling 40k — especially considering that the average player pulls 25k or less. An extremely small percentage of players will hit the numbers you’re hitting, and that INCLUDES other nightblades.

Syiccal

pteam wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

in fairness you can't compare mageblade to any other dps at current as they are far and beyond everything else

pteam

Aurielle wrote: »

pteam wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

Comments like this are one reason why I’ve stopped running PVE content. 40k is more than sufficient for ANY content in the game. Magblades doing 50k+ are extremely useful for endgame leaderboards, but GTFO with this BS that 40k “isn’t very good.” I’d be thrilled if I found myself tanking a pug group with two DDs pulling 40k — especially considering that the average player pulls 25k or less. An extremely small percentage of players will hit the numbers you’re hitting, and that INCLUDES other nightblades.

Well 40k is not sufficient for “ANY” content like you said. It’s not sufficient for vAS +2, vCR +1 or higher, or hard mode vmol are just a few that come to mind. But it should be sufficient for most other content. But my point was that 40k is decent it’s still 40% lower than what can be hit now.

MashmalloMan

Syiccal wrote: »

pteam wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

in fairness you can't compare mageblade to any other dps at current as they are far and beyond everything else

Far behind is an exaggeration, people seem to forget what nightblades have access to in their kit. Minor berserk is available in groups, for classes that don't have major fracture like stam sorc, also available in a group.

The one thing nightblades have is good sustain, if other classes met that (aleviated with shards in groups) than more classes could stop focusing on recovery/heavy attacks and meet nightblades dps.

In the end its about 56k vs 50-53k for the other classes.

pteam wrote: »

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

This is a prime example of what @Cybercore_Death was talking about. Everyone knows your class is over performing right now or rather other classes are under performing. The point he was making is that he is happy with his build because it works for him. There isn't any part of content besides end game raid top dps pushing that 100% requires 57k dps. 40k dps is fine for the majority, people on average barely break 25k dps in group dungeons.

To OP and the topic, I'm still under the influence that I'm happier focusing on increasing my dmg for 75% of the fight vs the the 25% at the end, but from a technical standpoint, you will end up with a higher dps parse using all bloodthirsty. I like a balance of 1-2, rest infused dmg for stam sorc.

Aurielle

pteam wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

pteam wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

Comments like this are one reason why I’ve stopped running PVE content. 40k is more than sufficient for ANY content in the game. Magblades doing 50k+ are extremely useful for endgame leaderboards, but GTFO with this BS that 40k “isn’t very good.” I’d be thrilled if I found myself tanking a pug group with two DDs pulling 40k — especially considering that the average player pulls 25k or less. An extremely small percentage of players will hit the numbers you’re hitting, and that INCLUDES other nightblades.

Well 40k is not sufficient for “ANY” content like you said. It’s not sufficient for vAS +2, vCR +1 or higher, or hard mode vmol are just a few that come to mind. But it should be sufficient for most other content. But my point was that 40k is decent it’s still 40% lower than what can be hit now.

That’s 40k, SELF-BUFFED, remember. Thing is, solo-parses are not even remotely an accurate representation of what a non-nb can pull off in a raid situation. Magblades are going to do better with solo parses by default, solely because they have access to buffs that are typically provided by healers. All you magblade fanbois who crap on other classes for their “bad” 40k solo dummy parses are conveniently neglecting the fact that other classes perform better when, for instance, they’re getting combat prayer (i.e. minor berserk, i.e. relentless focus/merciless resolve). When raid buffs are taken into consideration, the gulf between NBs and other classes that you see on solo parses isn’t as great. NBs are still outperforming, yes, but you can’t sit back and point to NB solo parses as evidence that a 40k self-buffed magDK parse “isn’t very good.”

IZZEFlameLash

gethemshauna wrote: »

Every dd should run 3x BT because it scales multiplicative, makes execute (most dangerous phases of boss fights) much shorter and safer.

And stay useless for 75% of the fight where most parses are decided?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

Every dd should run 3x BT because it scales multiplicative, makes execute (most dangerous phases of boss fights) much shorter and safer.

And stay useless for 75% of the fight where most parses are decided?

Because in most fights the last 25% is actually the most important, not sure why you think different, that is when most bosses has the the most one hit mechanics, when you need to put them down. Think Kenas double lightning walls and such.

getemshauna

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

Every dd should run 3x BT because it scales multiplicative, makes execute (most dangerous phases of boss fights) much shorter and safer.

And stay useless for 75% of the fight where most parses are decided?

I will just pass on this one, because you simply lack knowledge.

Cybercore_Death

pteam wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

Actually you're wrong. 40k is more than sufficient. You still only need 25k to complete vMoL HM as long as everyone that is running knows the mechs from start to finish.... and that's what it boils down to. Mechs and knowledge.

As mentioned everyone knows that NBs over perform due to their tool kit. But clear you seem to forget this. If you didn't the toolkit that you do then you'd be significantly lower.

However, if bashing others peoples abilities helps you feel better about yourself then go for it. You've proven my point that the "elites" are quick to judge because they forget three things:

1 - You were all in the same boast as a good portion of the game once upon a time. Pulling low numbers, being naive to the game and how it works. You've just forgotten that.

2 - Pulling 50k+ on a dummy parse means nothing at this point unless you're alive for the entire of the fight. A lot of people can boast they pull high numbers but when it comes to staying alive they fall short so their numbers are suddenly meaningless. A dead DPS is no DPS.

3 - Certain classes have access to certain perks in their tool tip and those are what actually make the difference (as i and others have mentioned already).

I've said it myself for a while now but meta is dead. The only time it would make a slight difference is for max score runs, however, guess what? I've run in raids with other non meta builds and would you like to know what? We pulled high scores and had decent runs. Who would have thought it, right?

I would suggest in future that you keep your comments to yourself if this is all you're going to add to a thread. Its not wanted, nor is it needed. OP asked a question and i gave the answer that you can run whatever you feel is best for you as everything is viable in the right hands and i backed it up with evidence of this.

SilverWF

Everyone who said "40k is not very good" just selfish ignorant.
No any sane human must socialize with them.
Period.

Cybercore_Death

SilverWF wrote: »

Everyone who said "40k is not very good" just selfish ignorant.
No any sane human must socialize with them.
Period.

Well said, however i wouldn't stop socialising with them because of their ignorance as that would make us as bad as them

LegendaryMage

Like someone said, the most dangerous mechanics are in execute phases so you definitely might want to consider bloodthirsty, that's pretty cool stuff.

40k self buffed is bad for most classes? I'm pretty sure a Nightblade said this without even reading rest of the comments.

Cybercore_Death

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Like someone said, the most dangerous mechanics are in execute phases so you definitely might want to consider bloodthirsty, that's pretty cool stuff.

40k self buffed is bad for most classes? I'm pretty sure a Nightblade said this without even reading rest of the comments.

It's something i haven't tried yet but its on the cards to (got some spare jewellery i intend to transmute at some point).

SirMewser

Vrany69 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To be clear, bloodthirsty increases ALL damage under 25%, not just executes.

In general, if you are a dps, one bloodthirsty is recommended.

[snip] why would you use it in any scenario when 75% of damage is way more important???

[Edit for bait.]

pteam wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Half the community will call me stupid for running a non meta, heavy attack based MagDK build. They say "only PetSorcs are viable for heavy attack builds, you'll never be raid material". Guess what, a heavy attack non meta MakDK works. Is viable and pulls awesome numbers. Has zero resource management issues.

The point i'm making is don't call someone stupid cos your opinion on the matter is different @Vrany69 , instead you should try explaining why it doesnt work and back it up with facts and numbers.

That being said, i'm a firm believer that anything can be made to work, case in point with my MagDK, so @Syiccal i would say give it a go if you're able to and see how it fairs. You never know, it may just give you an pleasantly surprising results.

Also, see as i talked about backing up with facts and figures, here's my DK build @Vrany69 just so you can see. I look forward to your response to this if its anything like your above comment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92S0f9Sipg&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: The build is still viable with this setup and produces the same results in Wolfhunter. I'll be updating CP changes accordingly soon.

I hate to tell you bro but 40k isn’t very good nowadays. I just hit 57k solo on my magblade. So 40k is 42% lower dps....

What is wrong with the two of you?

reprosal

Have ran quite a few dungeons with test dummy heros..

Usual case is me ending up doing 45-48% of the DPS, healer doing 17-20% and the test dummy hero doing 36%.

You can fish for higher than median crit epeen posts but when it counts on a boss, most often than not, they underperform.

John_Falstaff

So would the correct answer be "depending on situation"? Might as well keep a couple of spare bloodthirsty pieces to swap in when it's beneficial. I keep a prismatic-enchanted backbar handy to swap in any moment when it's going to be effective, so why not bloodthirsty. To get the thread back from DPS measuring contest, could start by mentioning bosses with enrage counter, where bloodthirsty would be good to have?

hedna123b14_ESO

I found the best results with 1-2 bt. Also it is absolutely not true that every dps should run 3 bt because that really shortens your execute time and thus acts as a type of diminishing return.

Protossyder

reprosal wrote: »

Have ran quite a few dungeons with test dummy heros..

Usual case is me ending up doing 45-48% of the DPS, healer doing 17-20% and the test dummy hero doing 36%.

You can fish for higher than median crit epeen posts but when it counts on a boss, most often than not, they underperform.

(X) doubt

SilverWF

Back on topic

Arcane
3x Arcane is 2520 max mag (purple jewelry), that is equal's to ~240 extra spell damage, that can be buffed by racial passives (+10%) or Warhorn (+10%), so ~290 with that buffs. Would be 301 with gold jewelry and 20% buff

Infused
3x Infused is ~261 extra spell damage (purple jewelry with 3x gold spell damage enchs), that can be buffed by Maj Sorcery (+20% or ~313). Would be 312 with gold jewelry and 374 with buff

So if compare Arcane vs Infused: Infused is a bit better for DPS (especially, for races without max mag passives), Arcane - for survivability (stronger shields) and sustain

Bloodthirsty is a different story.
3x Blood is a raw 30% damage increase at targets lower than 25% health for the cost of ~374 (in the best case or 300 in the most common) spell damage lost.
it's hard to notice 300 less spell power.
But 30% damage boost is a frkn huge, especially for hardest content, where bosses has dozens of millions hitpoints

idk

Vrany69 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To be clear, bloodthirsty increases ALL damage under 25%, not just executes.

In general, if you are a dps, one bloodthirsty is recommended.

[snip] why would you use it in any scenario when 75% of damage is way more important???

[Edit for bait.]

In the more challenging fights the game has to offer more he difficulty of the fight increases during the last 25% of the fight. It would make sense to have more damage output during that period. This pretty much well known by those that run the more challenging content.

Further, top players and theorycrafters test these things out at length and that’s wher he is getting that information from.

Beardimus

SilverWF wrote: »

Back on topic

Arcane
3x Arcane is 2520 max mag (purple jewelry), that is equal's to ~240 extra spell damage, that can be buffed by racial passives (+10%) or Warhorn (+10%)

Infused
3x Infused is ~261 extra spell damage (purple jewelry with 3x gold spell damage enchs), that can be buffed by Maj Sorcery (+20%). Would be 312 with gold jewelry and 374 with buff

So if compare Arcane vs Infused: Infused is a bit better for DPS (especially, for races without max mag passives), Arcane - for survivability (stronger shields) and sustain

Bloodthirsty is a different story.
3x Blood is a raw 30% damage increase at targets lower than 25% health for the cost of ~374 (in the best case or 300 in the most common) spell damage lost.
it's hard to notice 300 less spell power.
But 30% damage boost is a frkn huge, especially for hardest content, where bosses has dozens of millions hitpoints

Interesting analysis. I wondered on the actual impact of this. If it was a misnomer like the Shadow mundus that still (one year later) does less Crit damage than the max stat / damage equivilent.

I was toying with getting one Bloodthirsty onto a Vic Death ring just to help tip it over. curioud if 1 ring 10% equates to the loss in Magika. on a gank ultimate build I guess thats an easy answer as 10% of a big base.