A Nerf to Alkosh?

Narvuntien

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of removing the spell resistance debuff from Alkosh.... so that it only reduces armor.

Firstly it is a medium armor set and it is supposed to be used by Stam DPS, at least what it was designed for so reducing spell resist doesn't make sense for its design.
Secondly Stam characters are unpopular in trials mostly due to very mobile bosses and losing dps to mechanics.
Thirdly Stam characters have less penetration due to medium armor.

If the max dps from stam characters is a lot higher than mag characters then there is more incentive to use them even in mobile trials.

DirkRavenclaw

It may well be a medium Armour but, Alkosh Jewelry, in combination with a shield, is used by a lot of Tanks, dont nerf it

Checkmath

I also think, that it wouldnt change much, if you take away the spell penetration from the proc. It still would be one of the best sets a tank could wear to support the group. So it will not work like it was intended as damage dealer set anyway.

WuffyCerulei

A guide on how to effective f**k over every tank in ESO.

No. It does not need to be nerfed. Alkosh is fine the way it is. In fact, if they made it a heavy set and changed Lunar Bastion to be a medium dps ser, that would be better.

FakeFox

It would still not be worn by DDs because it doesn't do damage and DDs have a hard time holding uptimes. So it either would still be used by tanks or not at all.

Sparr0w

Why?

John_Falstaff

If I understand the idea behind the proposal right, it's to buff stamina penetration while leaving magicka penetration in place, to provide added incentive for groups to employ stamina damage dealers. Thing is, I don't think it's ZOS' intention (if there is even any intention behind those changes - I'm starting to doubt that), because the precisely opposite change happened in Summerself - stamina group penetration was lowered with nerfs to NMG and Sunderflame. Removing spell penetraiton from Alkosh would just nerf magicka in turn, so things would be roughly as they were before Summerset, just with penetration uniformly lower across the board. It may be seen as some way to fight power creep, but I don't think it'll help stamina much - not like it's been doing much better between Morrowind and Summerset anyway.

Royaji

So the set will become useless (like multiple other trial sets) and will be replaced by Torug's?

A change like that will not help stamina DDs. They are still going to be in a disadvantage due to being melee and having less survivability.

All this will achieve is a nerf to overall damage since tanks will switch to Torug's and DDs will put more points in Spell Erosion.

Some people might say that forcing tanks away from Alkosh and nerfing overall DPS is a good thing but don't sell it as a "help stam DDs" change

Kanar

So the way zos will implement this is that they'll change the debuff to minor fracture.

BTW given the nerfs in summerset, it would be crazy to see them flip flop to your suggestion.

Lord_Eomer

No more nerf please,

i am tired farming sets then seeing a nerf bomb is killing patience!

Eso101rus

FakeFox wrote: »

It would still not be worn by DDs because it doesn't do damage and DDs have a hard time holding uptimes. So it either would still be used by tanks or not at all.

Doesnt do damage? Have you even looked at the set bonuses? Minor slayer is a big giveaway.

In fact removing the spell resistance debuff is interesting, because there are so many ways magic dps can hit penetration cap it would give balance back and it would mean one of the stamina dps in group would have to run it, making it the set that was originally intended.

If the tank can provide 7.5k from taunt and infused crusher, light armour 4.9k, destro ignoring 10%, the rest of the 18.2k resists can be overcome from cp, weapon trait and/or Mundas stone. Stamina however really do need that extra pen from alkosh, definitely food for thought.

WrathOfInnos

This idea makes no sense. It would be like suggesting the Minor Vulnerability from IA only should only affect Magicka DPS.

Additionally, we had two sets that reduced only Armor (not spell resistance) by about 3k. Night Mother’s Gaze was 2580 and Sunderflame was 3440. Both were effectively removed from the game by changing their bonuses to redundant named debuffs. Clearly the devs do not want such a set to exist.

OrphanHelgen

I don't understand, you want to nerf alkosh to make stamina viable for trials?

Asmael

What would happen:

• Since the majority of dds in the new trials are magicka, tanks will use another set
• Stam dds just lost 3k penetration

The end.

Narvuntien

Hmm I guess if it isn't going to help stamina (compared to mag) then there wouldn't be any real point.

The other reason I was looking to nerf it is that DK tanks are so easy to tank with that they don't have to wear a tank set (while other tanks have to wear sustain or more tank sets) as part of tank balance. Tanks wearing sets to buff group dps and not their own survival.

A stam dam deal might use it though just like sunder and nmg. Although they will probably need to buff its damage.

John_Falstaff

@Eso101rus , if one of stamina DDs in a trial will be forced to run Alkosh (thus gimping his own personal damage output compared to other Minor Slayer sets), it will lower the viability of stamina groups in turn. And at the end of the day, nobody will be running it, since having stamina in the group is now connected to yet another chore. So it will push the groups towards the thought we're already observing: no stamina, no problems.

aeowulf

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

It may well be a medium Armour but, Alkosh Jewelry, in combination with a shield, is used by a lot of Tanks, dont nerf it

And it should be nerfed for this exact reason. It's not a set that makes a tank 'tank better'.

John_Falstaff

@aeowulf , problem is, there are many opposite opinions on what makes a better tank. Plus, people will keep finding ways. After Alkosh, you'll have to nerf Powerful Assault; after Powerful Assault, Livewire will be butchered - and so on, and so forth, for all support sets. People will still want tank to live on the edge and invest into amplifying group damage, as long as it pushes the scores. Nerfing one set would be fighting with symptoms, no the cause - but as a side effect, it would make stamina even less welcome in the endgame. I think changes should begin from the different end of the picture, from the content itself.

aeowulf

@John_Falstaff - It depends if your definition is one of 'a tank is a support role' - personally I don't like that. Tanks should be tanks.

Alkosh should be brought into line with the minor/major buff/debuff system - right now it stacks and this goes against the principles of diminishing returns. PA should also be changed to be the same, SPC was changed recently, I guess PA was overlooked because tanks wear alkosh now. So yes, both need changing. Livewire is fine though, it provides concussion, which is available elsewhere.

These sets are old and not inline with the way things seem to be headed. The major/minor buff/debuff system seems to work well - only ultimates really should not be bound by them. It is stopping stuff stacking, which is good.

pteam

Asmael wrote: »

What would happen:

• Since the majority of dds in the new trials are magicka, tanks will use another set
• Stam dds just lost 3k penetration

The end.

^ this is exactly what will happen. OP has no idea what he’s talking about.

ccfeeling

Stam dps run Berserker, its heavy armor
Some tanks run Desert Rose, its light armor
Players will pick the gears they want, no nerf.

DuskMarine

Narvuntien wrote: »

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of removing the spell resistance debuff from Alkosh.... so that it only reduces armor.

Firstly it is a medium armor set and it is supposed to be used by Stam DPS, at least what it was designed for so reducing spell resist doesn't make sense for its design.
Secondly Stam characters are unpopular in trials mostly due to very mobile bosses and losing dps to mechanics.
Thirdly Stam characters have less penetration due to medium armor.

If the max dps from stam characters is a lot higher than mag characters then there is more incentive to use them even in mobile trials.

lets be honest stam dps dont even use it so medium armor it needs taken off of since they dont use it. make the dang thing heavy armor so i dont have to try and maim someone on why i shouldnt use it as a tank who should be utilizing heavy armor.

Facefister

ccfeeling wrote: »

Stam dps run Berserker, its heavy armor
Some tanks run Desert Rose, its light armor
Players will pick the gears they want, no nerf.

Stam DDs don't use Beserker armor pieces though.

ZeroXFF

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

It may well be a medium Armour but, Alkosh Jewelry, in combination with a shield, is used by a lot of Tanks, dont nerf it

Actually that's the main reason I would want to see it nerfed, it takes away gear choice, all tanks have to wear Alkosh.

ZeroXFF

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A guide on how to effective f**k over every tank in ESO.

No. It does not need to be nerfed. Alkosh is fine the way it is. In fact, if they made it a heavy set and changed Lunar Bastion to be a medium dps ser, that would be better.

How would that "f**k over" tanks? You don't get anything out of it, it's everyone else in the group who benefits from you wearing it, not you. You as a tank would be better off wearing Akaviri Dragonguard in those slots instead. Sounds like a buff to tanks really.