Deserter Penalty Too Harsh

weedgenius

Valrien wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

weedgenius wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Too little Penalty - "What, the fight is going against me? F*** my team, I'm out..."

Average Penalty - "Waaah, I have to wait 20 minutes..."

I mean, its only frigging 20 minutes! Do a daily or something, then BG again!

Or, seeing how this is ZOS... woulde you like to see a "BG penalty reset token" in the crown store for a mere 500 crowns?

20 minutes too long when you are forcefully disconnected with the intent to reconnect

Exactly. Any penalty is too long when you’ve been disconnected from server and haven’t INTENTIONALLY done the thing you’re being penalized for.

But how can the game tell if it was an intentional or unintentional dc?

That's the problem. I don't think anyone here would object to removing the penalty if there was a way to identify it wasn't an intentional disconnect.

The game has a crash reporter, plus if your team is 1st or 2nd place, you're not going to have a reason to disconnect so by extension it's safe to say that there should be no penalty for people who DC in 1st or 2nd place

Right. In order to "desert" the battleground deliberately, I need to actively select the option and confirm. Am I really supposed to believe that ZOS doesn't have the ability to tell when that has occurred vs when someone randomly drops off the server?

TheShadowScout

The problem is, people in other games used to strategically "randomly disconnect" by physically pulling the plug/switching off the router/etc. to manipulate their win/loss record.
Any time they would face loss... "Oh, look, I D/Ced again, what a shame... still got my perfect record tho..."

And thus... deserter penalties got invented. Thank those *** for this.

And it is -impossible- to tell from their side if a disconnect is caused by your internet connection blanking out for a second as happens to mee often enough, or by such jerklings hardware manipulations.

Thus its unlikely they will rescind the deserter penalty, for worry that might only encourage those cheaters to cheat some more...

NyassaV

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

The amount of times the game bugs out and forces you out of the match I can't even count

I'm tired of being punished by choosing to walk away from toxic opponents. I'm not just saying toxic game-play like pure snipe spam I mean their behavior is also toxic. Since ZOS refuses to perma-ban some people then at least let me walk away from them.

NyassaV

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Oh man you guys will complain about anything. You obviously never played Overwatch. If you have repeated disconnects during a match, you can run the risk of being banned from game for 24 hours. Cry us a river!!!

That game has some semblance of balance and is competitive circuit of players which actually makes money too, therefore they have a reason for a system like that. Since ZOS insists on cratering to a broader spectrum of customers and appealing to more casual players then there is no reason for the system to exist in this game

DMuehlhausen

Valrien wrote: »

I had to log out of the game to fix a bug where I was alive, but could not hit anything and no one could see me (basically I was like a ghost). A party member told me to relog...so I did and now I can't queue for a battleground for 20 minutes.

Can we not get like a grace period to log back in or something?

Sorry, but they used this to kick you out of the group as well.

While I'll agree it's to harsh. I don't think you should get the deserter until your character has engaged in combat in dungeon. They said to relog and when you didn't come back as soon as they thought they removed you. I've never gotten the debuff if I've had to relog.

Valrien

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I had to log out of the game to fix a bug where I was alive, but could not hit anything and no one could see me (basically I was like a ghost). A party member told me to relog...so I did and now I can't queue for a battleground for 20 minutes.

Can we not get like a grace period to log back in or something?

Sorry, but they used this to kick you out of the group as well.

While I'll agree it's to harsh. I don't think you should get the deserter until your character has engaged in combat in dungeon. They said to relog and when you didn't come back as soon as they thought they removed you. I've never gotten the debuff if I've had to relog.

You're talking about dungeons. This thread is not about dungeons.

Jeremy

Valrien wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

weedgenius wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Too little Penalty - "What, the fight is going against me? F*** my team, I'm out..."

Average Penalty - "Waaah, I have to wait 20 minutes..."

I mean, its only frigging 20 minutes! Do a daily or something, then BG again!

Or, seeing how this is ZOS... woulde you like to see a "BG penalty reset token" in the crown store for a mere 500 crowns?

20 minutes too long when you are forcefully disconnected with the intent to reconnect

Exactly. Any penalty is too long when you’ve been disconnected from server and haven’t INTENTIONALLY done the thing you’re being penalized for.

But how can the game tell if it was an intentional or unintentional dc?

That's the problem. I don't think anyone here would object to removing the penalty if there was a way to identify it wasn't an intentional disconnect.

The game has a crash reporter, plus if your team is 1st or 2nd place, you're not going to have a reason to disconnect so by extension it's safe to say that there should be no penalty for people who DC in 1st or 2nd place

I"m skeptical that the developers would be able to tell the difference if a player's ISP acted up or if they simply unplugged their modem - crash reporter or not. So I'd have to see a message from an actual developer on here confirming that before I could believe it.

Jeremy

NyassaV wrote: »

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

The amount of times the game bugs out and forces you out of the match I can't even count

I'm tired of being punished by choosing to walk away from toxic opponents. I'm not just saying toxic game-play like pure snipe spam I mean their behavior is also toxic. Since ZOS refuses to perma-ban some people then at least let me walk away from them.

You have to have some kind of penalty for desertion. Otherwise players would just instance jump until they got their ideal circumstances.

Desertion is already an issue in Battlegrounds. So if you were to remove the penalty it would likely just exacerbate it.

Is it annoying to get a penalized for an unintentional disconnect? It sure is. But when looking at the bigger picture - I think this small injustice is necessary to keep the group-finder effective.

Valrien

Jeremy wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

The amount of times the game bugs out and forces you out of the match I can't even count

I'm tired of being punished by choosing to walk away from toxic opponents. I'm not just saying toxic game-play like pure snipe spam I mean their behavior is also toxic. Since ZOS refuses to perma-ban some people then at least let me walk away from them.

You have to have some kind of penalty for desertion. Otherwise players would just instance jump until they got their ideal circumstances.

Desertion is already an issue in Battlegrounds. So if you were to remove the penalty it would likely just exacerbate it.

Is it annoying to get a penalized for an unintentional disconnect? It sure is. But when looking at the bigger picture - I think this small injustice is necessary to keep the group-finder effective.

Guarantee more innocents get punished than people who actually disconnect to desert

Jeremy

Valrien wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

The amount of times the game bugs out and forces you out of the match I can't even count

I'm tired of being punished by choosing to walk away from toxic opponents. I'm not just saying toxic game-play like pure snipe spam I mean their behavior is also toxic. Since ZOS refuses to perma-ban some people then at least let me walk away from them.

You have to have some kind of penalty for desertion. Otherwise players would just instance jump until they got their ideal circumstances.

Desertion is already an issue in Battlegrounds. So if you were to remove the penalty it would likely just exacerbate it.

Is it annoying to get a penalized for an unintentional disconnect? It sure is. But when looking at the bigger picture - I think this small injustice is necessary to keep the group-finder effective.

Guarantee more innocents get punished than people who actually disconnect to desert

I doubt it.

I see people drop out of Battlegrounds on a routine basis because they don't like that particular arena or aren't impressed with their teammates etc. It's hard for me to imagine that many people are crashing so often (I know I'm not).

starkerealm

NyassaV wrote: »

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

It's there do discourage rage quitting. Which, you know, happens. I had a guldie who started a BG match, and was against @FENGRUSH and @Gilliamtherogue. She quit out of the match on the spot. So, you're saying, she should have been allowed to do that with no penalty? Because that would make life very unpleasant for anyone with a recognizable PvP reputation.

I know for a fact, she would have quit out of any match where she saw either Gil or Feng, if that wasn't a consideration.

NordSwordnBoard

I wonder why its 20 minutes and the dungeon one is 15.

Valrien

Jeremy wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

The amount of times the game bugs out and forces you out of the match I can't even count

I'm tired of being punished by choosing to walk away from toxic opponents. I'm not just saying toxic game-play like pure snipe spam I mean their behavior is also toxic. Since ZOS refuses to perma-ban some people then at least let me walk away from them.

You have to have some kind of penalty for desertion. Otherwise players would just instance jump until they got their ideal circumstances.

Desertion is already an issue in Battlegrounds. So if you were to remove the penalty it would likely just exacerbate it.

Is it annoying to get a penalized for an unintentional disconnect? It sure is. But when looking at the bigger picture - I think this small injustice is necessary to keep the group-finder effective.

Guarantee more innocents get punished than people who actually disconnect to desert

I doubt it.

I see people drop out of Battlegrounds on a routine basis because they don't like that particular arena or aren't impressed with their teammates etc. It's hard for me to imagine that many people are crashing so often (I know I'm not).

You may not, but you're one of the lucky ones.

This game has an awful problem with disconnects. Especially in any kind of PvP for some reason

Jeremy

Valrien wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

The amount of times the game bugs out and forces you out of the match I can't even count

I'm tired of being punished by choosing to walk away from toxic opponents. I'm not just saying toxic game-play like pure snipe spam I mean their behavior is also toxic. Since ZOS refuses to perma-ban some people then at least let me walk away from them.

You have to have some kind of penalty for desertion. Otherwise players would just instance jump until they got their ideal circumstances.

Desertion is already an issue in Battlegrounds. So if you were to remove the penalty it would likely just exacerbate it.

Is it annoying to get a penalized for an unintentional disconnect? It sure is. But when looking at the bigger picture - I think this small injustice is necessary to keep the group-finder effective.

Guarantee more innocents get punished than people who actually disconnect to desert

I doubt it.

I see people drop out of Battlegrounds on a routine basis because they don't like that particular arena or aren't impressed with their teammates etc. It's hard for me to imagine that many people are crashing so often (I know I'm not).

You may not, but you're one of the lucky ones.

This game has an awful problem with disconnects. Especially in any kind of PvP for some reason

I disconnect on occasion. Some times it is worse than others. So I acknowledge the game has problems with it. But I usually see at least one deserter for every two battlegrounds I do who leaves for the reasons mentioned. I don't even want to imagine what it would be like if they did away with the deserter penalty.

Feanor

I get the rage quitting part. But seriously, since there isn’t a W-L record or any meaningful way of ranking (medals are just not capturing anything) one shouldn’t expect people to pull the cable.

Given the many bugs the BGs still have - and they often even don’t leave the starting area - the penalty is just plain awful.

Jeremy

Feanor wrote: »

I get the rage quitting part. But seriously, since there isn’t a W-L record or any meaningful way of ranking (medals are just not capturing anything) one shouldn’t expect people to pull the cable.

Given the many bugs the BGs still have - and they often even don’t leave the starting area - the penalty is just plain awful.

Deserting is already a big problem in battle grounds though. Many of them don't even wait long enough to "rage quit". They simply leave at the start because they don't like that particular arena or the team they are matched with or against.

I understand the penalty sucks for those who get disconnected. But the solution here is to fix the problem with disconnects - not to do away with the deserter penalty. Because if they did that - it would cause an already big problem to become that much worse. It would likely end up being rare for a complete team to ever finish a Battleground together. So everyone would just end up quitting all the time or one or two people would have to endure the misery of finishing off a match while being hopelessly out-numbered.

Jeremy

starkerealm wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

It's not to harsh. It flat out shouldn't exist!

It's there do discourage rage quitting. Which, you know, happens. I had a guldie who started a BG match, and was against @FENGRUSH and @Gilliamtherogue. She quit out of the match on the spot. So, you're saying, she should have been allowed to do that with no penalty? Because that would make life very unpleasant for anyone with a recognizable PvP reputation.

I know for a fact, she would have quit out of any match where she saw either Gil or Feng, if that wasn't a consideration.

IF they did away with the penalty it wouldn't be uncommon for matches to just end in a forfeit right at the start due to everyone on the deserter's team just leaving.