Swamp Raider set buff?

Savos_Saren

Does Swamp Raider buff ALL poison and disease damage... or just your abilities that have poison or disease? Technically, Elf Bane says that it buffs your fire abilities by 2 seconds- but it also buffs two set procs (Grothdarr and Zaan). So, logically, wouldn't Swamp Raider buff set procs as well? Leeching, Syvarrah, Mephala, Thurvokun, etc...?

kringled_1

Set procs don't use your weapon/spell damage as far as I know, so I think it's a moot point.

Ragnarock41

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Does Swamp Raider buff ALL poison and disease damage... or just your abilities that have poison or disease? Technically, Elf Bane says that it buffs your fire abilities by 2 seconds- but it also buffs two set procs (Grothdarr and Zaan). So, logically, wouldn't Swamp Raider buff set procs as well? Leeching, Syvarrah, Mephala, Thurvokun, etc...?

I told you poison knight won't work man, you should call it quit on that idea.

Savos_Saren

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Does Swamp Raider buff ALL poison and disease damage... or just your abilities that have poison or disease? Technically, Elf Bane says that it buffs your fire abilities by 2 seconds- but it also buffs two set procs (Grothdarr and Zaan). So, logically, wouldn't Swamp Raider buff set procs as well? Leeching, Syvarrah, Mephala, Thurvokun, etc...?

I told you poison knight won't work man, you should call it quit on that idea.

Imma dooooo itttttttt.

I'll just annoy the [snip] out of ZOS until they make our own class passives and skills viable. What the hell is the purpose of World In Ruin if we can't benefit from it? We're just running around with weapon abilities and roll dodging now.

Ragnarock41

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Does Swamp Raider buff ALL poison and disease damage... or just your abilities that have poison or disease? Technically, Elf Bane says that it buffs your fire abilities by 2 seconds- but it also buffs two set procs (Grothdarr and Zaan). So, logically, wouldn't Swamp Raider buff set procs as well? Leeching, Syvarrah, Mephala, Thurvokun, etc...?

I told you poison knight won't work man, you should call it quit on that idea.

Imma dooooo itttttttt.

I'll just annoy the [snip] out of ZOS until they make our own class passives and skills viable. What the hell is the purpose of World In Ruin if we can't benefit from it? We're just running around with weapon abilities and roll dodging now.

The solution is locking Wrobel in a room and forcing him to play stamDK open world for an entire week. And then ask him how he feels about the half assed poison theme that he abandoned years ago I guess.

Savos_Saren

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

Ragnarock41

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Kadoin

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Does Swamp Raider buff ALL poison and disease damage... or just your abilities that have poison or disease? Technically, Elf Bane says that it buffs your fire abilities by 2 seconds- but it also buffs two set procs (Grothdarr and Zaan). So, logically, wouldn't Swamp Raider buff set procs as well? Leeching, Syvarrah, Mephala, Thurvokun, etc...?

I told you poison knight won't work man, you should call it quit on that idea.

Imma dooooo itttttttt.

I'll just annoy the [snip] out of ZOS until they make our own class passives and skills viable. What the hell is the purpose of World In Ruin if we can't benefit from it? We're just running around with weapon abilities and roll dodging now.

That's the spirit! I'd recommend looking into a hybrid setup if you are really unhappy...The problem is that no one can really recommend one for PvP because it all depends on you, how you play, and what you want to accomplish. I can tell you though, that this patch hybrids are the "kings" in PvP at least. Definitely in CP PvP ever since they put diminishing returns on CP.

Savos_Saren

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

Ragnarock41

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

ZOS themselves don't know why WiR has poison, hell, they can't even tell you one good reason why stamDK dots are poison and not bleed in the first place. Poison is the literal worst type of damage in this game.

kojou

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

ZOS themselves don't know why WiR has poison, hell, they can't even tell you one good reason why stamDK dots are poison and not bleed in the first place. Poison is the literal worst type of damage in this game.

No... Poison is not the worst. That title still belongs to "Magic Damage" IMO.

BohnT

kojou wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

ZOS themselves don't know why WiR has poison, hell, they can't even tell you one good reason why stamDK dots are poison and not bleed in the first place. Poison is the literal worst type of damage in this game.

No... Poison is not the worst. That title still belongs to "Magic Damage" IMO.

*Laughs in ice damage*

Ragnarock41

BohnT wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

ZOS themselves don't know why WiR has poison, hell, they can't even tell you one good reason why stamDK dots are poison and not bleed in the first place. Poison is the literal worst type of damage in this game.

No... Poison is not the worst. That title still belongs to "Magic Damage" IMO.

*Laughs in ice damage*

chilled versus poisoned man... Chilled at least has some value since it procs minor maim if I'm not mistaken.

I think the poison and ice damage both suffer from very similar issues, magden lacks ice spells, stamDk lacks poison morphs.

Either way there is no point arguing in who is the weakest, I can honestly say that both classes lack some identity and with stamDK the weapon abilities are always brought up as an excuse, however the class passives or the two poison dots have nothing to synergize with the said weapon abilities.

As for magdens I don't know what would fix them. Maybe an ice spammable, like throwing ice shards at people or something? I honestly have no clue.

BohnT

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

ZOS themselves don't know why WiR has poison, hell, they can't even tell you one good reason why stamDK dots are poison and not bleed in the first place. Poison is the literal worst type of damage in this game.

No... Poison is not the worst. That title still belongs to "Magic Damage" IMO.

*Laughs in ice damage*

chilled versus poisoned man... Chilled at least has some value since it procs minor maim if I'm not mistaken.

I think the poison and ice damage both suffer from very similar issues, magden lacks ice spells, stamDk lacks poison morphs.

I can't call poison damage worse than ice damage as long as things like shalks and poison injection exist and that you wouldn't notice a difference if you put points into the passives on Nord or not if it wouldn't be for the 9% health.
Also in pve the poison glyph is the prefered choice for damage glyphs on stamina specs due to the poison dot, it's not really worth it in pvp that's right but there's more in this game even if we don't really spend our time there if we can avoid it

Savos_Saren

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

ZOS themselves don't know why WiR has poison, hell, they can't even tell you one good reason why stamDK dots are poison and not bleed in the first place. Poison is the literal worst type of damage in this game.

Ew, no. Bleeds shouldn't exist. Poison is fine- but it really does need to have some sort of secondary effect. Like minor everation.

Ragnarock41

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

That sounds pretty bad still. You could probably go with viper+serpent if you absolutely want poisons and nothing else.

Oh, no. Let's not forget! ZOS specifically wants us to use AOE poisons to benefit from World In Ruin. So... Viper and Serpent don't help us out whatsoever for our StamDK's passives. Gee, thanks ZOS!

I dunno. I figure ZOS would reevaluate our passives and maybe make it a straight bonus to poison, right?

ZOS themselves don't know why WiR has poison, hell, they can't even tell you one good reason why stamDK dots are poison and not bleed in the first place. Poison is the literal worst type of damage in this game.

No... Poison is not the worst. That title still belongs to "Magic Damage" IMO.

*Laughs in ice damage*

chilled versus poisoned man... Chilled at least has some value since it procs minor maim if I'm not mistaken.

I think the poison and ice damage both suffer from very similar issues, magden lacks ice spells, stamDk lacks poison morphs.

I can't call poison damage worse than ice damage as long as things like shalks and poison injection exist and that you wouldn't notice a difference if you put points into the passives on Nord or not if it wouldn't be for the 9% health.
Also in pve the poison glyph is the prefered choice for damage glyphs on stamina specs due to the poison dot, it's not really worth it in pvp that's right but there's more in this game even if we don't really spend our time there if we can avoid it

Shalk and poison inject are amazing abilities by themselves and it does not have anything to do with the poison damage type. The magicka morph of shalks also does great burst for example, and poison inject is good because of the pseudo-execute mechanic.

SilverIce58

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

Oh damn, I'm doing the same build lol. Not because it's good or anything, but because I wanted to do something fun. I dont have thurvokun yet, so I'm using Mephala .
Did you know that there's somewhere between 9-11 skills that do poison damage in the game? It's crazy that there's that many skills but poison isn't good enough to be a real build.

Anyhow, nobody can talk me out of doing a poison build as it's been pretty fun so far.

WrathOfInnos

Have you tried Morag Tong? It’s a flat 10% increase to poison damage. Doesn’t affect disease at all, but it’s usually better than swamp raider for poison. It also applies to the target, and therefore benefits your allies as well, not just your skills. And it works on proc sets, alchemy poisons, and poison enchants.

I used to run it on Stam Warden sometimes in trials, since subterranean assault will put the debuff on entire trash packs. Tong + War Machine made a pretty good buff build. While someone else would supply Sunderflame and Night Mother’s (this was a while ago).

RavenSworn

Wouldnt Widowmaker be abit better since it makes use of your alchemical poisons as well? though that delay doesnt really make it as good as Viper

Toc de Malsvi

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Have you tried Morag Tong? It’s a flat 10% increase to poison damage. Doesn’t affect disease at all, but it’s usually better than swamp raider for poison. It also applies to the target, and therefore benefits your allies as well, not just your skills. And it works on proc sets, alchemy poisons, and poison enchants.

I used to run it on Stam Warden sometimes in trials, since subterranean assault will put the debuff on entire trash packs. Tong + War Machine made a pretty good buff build. While someone else would supply Sunderflame and Night Mother’s (this was a while ago).

^This.

Morag Tong's damage boost is quite nice.

The_Protagonist

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

I had to check UESP to confirm that minor fracture is not in Spawn of Mephala, you had me revisit an old favorite set of mine.

The_Protagonist

RavenSworn wrote: »

Wouldnt Widowmaker be abit better since it makes use of your alchemical poisons as well? though that delay doesnt really make it as good as Viper

Widowmaker + Velidreth + Seventh Legion Brute, would make a nice melee focused build, it would have been amazing if could make WM and Veli proc together, really miss the old WM :'(

Savos_Saren

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why Argonians didn't get a poison/disease damage buff passive while Nords would get a cold damage buff passive.

Okay.. I've got it!

Thurvokun: minor maim, minor defile
Leeching: poison damage, self heal (Yes, I know, Duroks would be better)
Hand of Mephala: poison damage, snare, minor fracture

I wish Spawn of Mephala was better. Heavy attacking someone to slow them? Bleh.

I had to check UESP to confirm that minor fracture is not in Spawn of Mephala, you had me revisit an old favorite set of mine.

Hand of Mephala and Spawn of Mephala are two different sets. Hand of Mephala drops from Cradle of Shadows:
(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(5 items) When you take damage, you have a 10% chance to cast a web around you for 5 seconds, reducing the Movement Speed of enemies within by 50%. After 5 seconds the web bursts in to venom, dealing 2580 Poison Damage and applying Minor Fracture to any enemy hit for 5 seconds, reducing their Physical Resistance by 1320.

Savos_Saren

To follow up on this thread- here's a list of armor sets that would benefit from the World in Ruin (AOE Poison) passive:

Spawn of Mephala
Hand of Mephala
Leeching Plate
Infector Set (aka Defiler)
Widowmaker


Sets like Viper, Poisonous Serpent, Plague Slinger, Sheer Venom, and Vicecannon are single-target damage. So World In Ruin doesn't apply to it.

Morag Tong and Swamp Raider somewhat apply to World in Ruin since they can proc off a StamDK's poison abilities. Combining Swamp Raider with another poison set appears not to benefit the proc from the poison as well.

I really wish ZOS would reevaluate the StamDK's abilities and passives. For being a "poison knight"- they end up relying on a lot of physical damage weapons.

geonsocal

Savos_Saren wrote: »

To follow up on this thread- here's a list of armor sets that would benefit from the World in Ruin (AOE Poison) passive:

Spawn of Mephala
Hand of Mephala
Leeching Plate
Infector Set (aka Defiler)
Widowmaker


Sets like Viper, Poisonous Serpent, Plague Slinger, Sheer Venom, and Vicecannon are single-target damage. So World In Ruin doesn't apply to it.

Morag Tong and Swamp Raider somewhat apply to World in Ruin since they can proc off a StamDK's poison abilities. Combining Swamp Raider with another poison set appears not to benefit the proc from the poison as well.

I really wish ZOS would reevaluate the StamDK's abilities and passives. For being a "poison knight"- they end up relying on a lot of physical damage weapons.

good stuff - thanks

ward of cyrodiil and swamp raider maybe?

MajBludd

Thank you for this thread, OP. I've been looking into this type of build as well. Thanks to all for the much need info I've been looking for

Savos_Saren

Whoa! You must be preparing for today's Necromancer announcement. This discussion is pretty outdated, @MajBludd . World In Ruin no longer adds extra AOE damage to poison abilities. It simply reduces the cost of poison abilities now. Don't go spending lots of time/money on farming poison sets just yet.

Valykc

Run dual wield/bow and use Velidreth/Sheer Venom/Viper’s Sting. What’s not poison damage will become poison damage on melee. Back Bar a Master’s Bow, Front Bar Viper’s since it’s melee only. Boom, Poison Knight. You’re welcome! ROLEPLAY ENGAGED!

(Edit: Oh.. this was Necro’d ... whoops 😬)

MajBludd

@Savos_Saren indeed it does and than you for the info. I haven't purchased any sets yet. Just looking to see what could be used.

I've been told swamp raider is no good, but not sure if that advice is worth its weight.

Savos_Saren

@MajBludd

Wait until the announcement today. Perhaps the set will be better and/or there might be a race that gets an advantage to poison/disease damage. ZOS is apparently updating some old sets and racial passives with this upcoming patch.