Why people love Bow and Arrow so much?

Bladerunner1

My stamina Bosmer DPS can no longer out-dps my mage in close quarters combat, so I gave that little elf another bow. Little elfs love bows.

JobooAGS

tunepunk wrote: »

I think the bow skill line in eso is pretty useful.

Snipe - Heavy hitter with a cast time that can be interrupted and snares you
Poison arrow - Pressure
Endless hail. Ground based AOE good dps, for pve, which is fine
Acid Spray - Good direct area damage. Snare is good too.
Magnum shot - useless cc due to its pitful 10m range, dodgability, and reflectability on top of that. Knockback morph could do you more harm than help, so draining shot is the better morph in that regard. Would be worth slotting if it had a better range lets say 22m like clench. Other than warden, you got plenty of other better ccs

Movement speed after roll dodge, which is competely negated by a speed potion, this passive needs a rework, either redesign the pasive entirely, or give a speed buff that is unique and not part of the major/minor system

And don't forget. light attacks hit pretty hard. I get up to 14.5k light attack hits when crit, on my stam sorc.
I believe they are the 2nd hardest hitting light attack in the game

Fixed?

Danksta

PvE- endless hail and poison injection

PvP- mobility and poison injection

Facefister

Because critting low impen characters with a 35k combo is satisfying.

DDuke

Æterny wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Because there's no crossbows?


Seriously though, I don't think the amount of bow users is too disproportionate to the amount of players who play DW/2H, DW/S&B, S&B/2H etc etc - atleast in PvP.

Across all MMOS/RPGs i have played that i could have access to the population class distribution, the Majority plays an archer class style. Not to all combined, but let's say 100%: 10%Healer 10% Warrior 15%Thief 15%Barbarian 20%Mage 30%Archer. Just a rough exemple.

...and what MMOs would those be?

Because in games like WoW (https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes) or GW2 (https://gw2armory.com/statistics) the amount of archers isn't that out of control (i.e. "30%").

I was a bit surprised though to see hunters as the most popular class in WoW (total, but not for max. level players), I remember almost everyone playing a rogue back in the days.

Still, the amount of archers isn't disproportionate to the amount of melee builds as in both of those games there's multiple melee playstyles as opposed to bow ones (or ranged physical damage in general).

Same is true for ESO.


I've played MMOs that didn't even have bows (or crossbows >:( )... Blade & Soul for example.

Facefister

It's all about "confirmed bias". When I want to see archers or archer types, I will see them.

Lysette

I developed a love for either Bosmer Stamden or Nord Stamden - both are using 2h as their main weapon, because they have the sustain to just cleave right through the mob supported by cliff racers. If I use my bear with tougher opponents, I start out with the bow and let the bear distract the enemy and when I am in critical charge range, I change to 2h and jump on the enemy to finish it off - works quite well this way. It's basically the range of the bow, which makes me use it. But since I play wardens, I am using the bow less often.

gepe87

Snipe..snipe..snipe...snipe...on PvE.

Kiralyn2000

DDuke wrote: »

I was a bit surprised though to see hunters as the most popular class in WoW (total, but not for max. level players), I remember almost everyone playing a rogue back in the days.

Huh. Whereas I remember the "pro" players constantly complaining about all the "hunt***d n00bs" running around with their "easymode" personal tanks and constantly wiping PuGs by screwing up aggro.

(yes, my main was a Hunter. And, like others here, have played archers in just about everything I could, all the way back to Diablo 1 and beyond)

nemvar

Bows just aren't fun anymore since they changed the heavy attack.

firedrgn

Because you can.....just send it.

UrQuan

If you're a stamina DPS and you don't have a bow on one bar, you're handicapping yourself, pure and simple. That goes for both PVE and generally for PVP (as in: outside of some specialized PVP builds that do 1 thing very well and other things badly), although for different reasons.

So any stamina DPS players who know what they're doing and care about being as good at it as they can are going to use a bow. Note that most of my stamina characters use a bow on one bar, but I've got a couple that don't because I care more about them following their theme (like my orc stamplar who uses a two-hander on both bars) than I do about them being as effective as possible. The ones that don't use a bow are significantly worse at DPS than the ones that do.

On top of that, a lot of newer players who don't know what they're doing also like to use bows because of a variety of reasons, from "I like the way it looks" to "I want to stay at range as much as I can so that I won't die as often".

In general, a bow is bad as a main weapon, but awesome as a back bar weapon. I've been thinking about trying to make a bow/bow build work with Asylum on one bar and Master on the other... Poison Injection buffs Acid Spray, which buffs Poison Injection, and so on lol

PlagueSD

Æterny wrote: »

I am 30 yo atm, and a VERY experienced MMO/RPG player. And one thing i could notice is that every single game that gives the player the option to use a bow, the majority of the players take it.
So, the point of the topic is: Even having multiple different choices, like various types of magic casters, close combat fighter, stealth gameplay and so on. WHAT MAKES BOW SO ATTRACTIVE?
Specially at ESO, that it feels sooooo boring to play with this kind of weapon.
Let me know how you feel about it!

Simple. You can attack your enemies, but they can't hit you. Same with any "ranged" class. If you can kill stuff before it even gets to you, you don't need to worry about "survival".

wenchmore420b14_ESO

StamSorc, DW with Bow on back bar.
Why do I use a Bow? This is why..


Thats just my Bow dmg. 1sec.
Yes, bows are viable weapon.

Plus, yes , I'm a archer in RL too.. Lol..
Huzzah!

Strider__Roshin

Because someone killed Nergigante with nothing but jump shots in less than a minute.

JobooAGS

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

StamSorc, DW with Bow on back bar.
Why do I use a Bow? This is why..


Thats just my Bow dmg. 1sec.
Yes, bows are viable weapon.

Plus, yes , I'm a archer in RL too.. Lol..
Huzzah!

A 1 second parse is pretty meaningless with the exception of a handful of pvp builds

Starlock

Facefister wrote: »

It's all about "confirmed bias". When I want to see archers or archer types, I will see them.

Yeah, I’m definitely confused by the OP’s observation. I see all weapon types more or less pretty evenly, with maybe a bit less folks running sword/board and restoration staff.

Linaleah

I don't know about other people but for me its the archery in general that is appealing. I'm no Wilhelm Tell (lawl not even remotely), but I do practice daily, have a little target set up in the basement and everything. there is just something very fun about it. and the whole ranger fantasy is very appealing.

last but not least - yes, being ranged and kiting feels safer and in many ways easier then being melee, at least for me. for some people, that manifests in playing mage type characters. me... I like my bows.

MLGProPlayer

Same reason Hanzo is the most popular character in Overwatch and AWP is the most popular gun in Counter-Strike.

People love snipers for some reason (despite most people being absolutely terrible with them). I guess it makes them feel safe.

I guess it's the same reason why stealthy assassins are so popular in games too. Stealth also makes you feel safe.

If ZOS ever makes a necromancer class, 49.5% of the player base will be necromancer archers while the other 49.5% will be NB archers.

DDuke

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Same reason Hanzo is the most popular character in Overwatch and AWP is the most popular gun in Counter-Strike.

People love snipers for some reason (despite most people being absolutely terrible with them). I guess it makes them feel safe.

I guess it's the same reason why stealthy assassins are so popular in games too. Stealth also makes you feel safe.

If ZOS ever makes a necromancer class, 49.5% of the player base will be necromancer archers while the other 49.5% will be NB archers.

I don't mean to nitpick, but according to https://www.overbuff.com/heroes :

Hanzo has a pick rate of 5,52% in quick match (5th most popular character) & 4,57% in competitive (8th most popular character).


...I wish there was a similar statistics site for ESO classes/weapons/armor type etc

Gilvoth

i love using bow, it is a decent weapon and it does what is intended.
it kills my enemies.
perhaps you could convince me otherwise.

rfennell_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Because there's no crossbows?


Seriously though, I don't think the amount of bow users is too disproportionate to the amount of players who play DW/2H, DW/S&B, S&B/2H etc etc - atleast in PvP.

Across all MMOS/RPGs i have played that i could have access to the population class distribution, the Majority plays an archer class style. Not to all combined, but let's say 100%: 10%Healer 10% Warrior 15%Thief 15%Barbarian 20%Mage 30%Archer. Just a rough exemple.

...and what MMOs would those be?

Because in games like WoW (https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes) or GW2 (https://gw2armory.com/statistics) the amount of archers isn't that out of control (i.e. "30%").

I was a bit surprised though to see hunters as the most popular class in WoW (total, but not for max. level players), I remember almost everyone playing a rogue back in the days.

Still, the amount of archers isn't disproportionate to the amount of melee builds as in both of those games there's multiple melee playstyles as opposed to bow ones (or ranged physical damage in general).

Same is true for ESO.


I've played MMOs that didn't even have bows (or crossbows >:( )... Blade & Soul for example.

In truth, Hunters in wow are the only pureblood dps that's a ranged class that does physical damage.

They are the only class that fulfills that role and are one of the few pure dps classes (the bulk of classes in game are considered hybrid, meaning they fulfill different roles). The "pures" were generally the highest dps classes (as they always had 3 dps specs to choose from, one of them would likely shine at a time and sometimes more than one) The pure classes were hunter, rogue, mage and warlock...

LeeNordTank

Skyrim

Linaleah

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Because there's no crossbows?


Seriously though, I don't think the amount of bow users is too disproportionate to the amount of players who play DW/2H, DW/S&B, S&B/2H etc etc - atleast in PvP.

Across all MMOS/RPGs i have played that i could have access to the population class distribution, the Majority plays an archer class style. Not to all combined, but let's say 100%: 10%Healer 10% Warrior 15%Thief 15%Barbarian 20%Mage 30%Archer. Just a rough exemple.

...and what MMOs would those be?

Because in games like WoW (https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes) or GW2 (https://gw2armory.com/statistics) the amount of archers isn't that out of control (i.e. "30%").

I was a bit surprised though to see hunters as the most popular class in WoW (total, but not for max. level players), I remember almost everyone playing a rogue back in the days.

Still, the amount of archers isn't disproportionate to the amount of melee builds as in both of those games there's multiple melee playstyles as opposed to bow ones (or ranged physical damage in general).

Same is true for ESO.


I've played MMOs that didn't even have bows (or crossbows >:( )... Blade & Soul for example.

In truth, Hunters in wow are the only pureblood dps that's a ranged class that does physical damage.

They are the only class that fulfills that role and are one of the few pure dps classes (the bulk of classes in game are considered hybrid, meaning they fulfill different roles). The "pures" were generally the highest dps classes (as they always had 3 dps specs to choose from, one of them would likely shine at a time and sometimes more than one) The pure classes were hunter, rogue, mage and warlock...

its not just that. hunters and warlocks have pets, and hunter pets tend to be tankier. its not until relatively recently that warlocks have gotten sturdier. hunter is literally THE easiest class to play for a solo player. think ESO pet sorc.

DaveMoeDee

As far as I am concerned, Cyrodiil is mostly about me tagging enemies to get credit for the kills when I am am in a disorganized group or just zerging. That means a bow for my stam DK tank that I usually use. If I am running in an organized group, I don't touch a bow because I am really tanking.

What I commonly end up doing with a zerg is searching for someone with low health i other zerg while spamming light attack to build up ult. When I find someone with low health, that is when I spam skills and possibly an ult for a cheap kill. If I don't have a range attack, it is a slower to build ult. I don't really have any interest in 1v1.

As a tank, I don't really use a bow in group content, but I'll definitely use it when questing.

rfennell_ESO

Linaleah wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Because there's no crossbows?


Seriously though, I don't think the amount of bow users is too disproportionate to the amount of players who play DW/2H, DW/S&B, S&B/2H etc etc - atleast in PvP.

Across all MMOS/RPGs i have played that i could have access to the population class distribution, the Majority plays an archer class style. Not to all combined, but let's say 100%: 10%Healer 10% Warrior 15%Thief 15%Barbarian 20%Mage 30%Archer. Just a rough exemple.

...and what MMOs would those be?

Because in games like WoW (https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes) or GW2 (https://gw2armory.com/statistics) the amount of archers isn't that out of control (i.e. "30%").

I was a bit surprised though to see hunters as the most popular class in WoW (total, but not for max. level players), I remember almost everyone playing a rogue back in the days.

Still, the amount of archers isn't disproportionate to the amount of melee builds as in both of those games there's multiple melee playstyles as opposed to bow ones (or ranged physical damage in general).

Same is true for ESO.


I've played MMOs that didn't even have bows (or crossbows >:( )... Blade & Soul for example.

In truth, Hunters in wow are the only pureblood dps that's a ranged class that does physical damage.

They are the only class that fulfills that role and are one of the few pure dps classes (the bulk of classes in game are considered hybrid, meaning they fulfill different roles). The "pures" were generally the highest dps classes (as they always had 3 dps specs to choose from, one of them would likely shine at a time and sometimes more than one) The pure classes were hunter, rogue, mage and warlock...

its not just that. hunters and warlocks have pets, and hunter pets tend to be tankier. its not until relatively recently that warlocks have gotten sturdier. hunter is literally THE easiest class to play for a solo player. think ESO pet sorc.

Yeah and unlike eso... pets pathing and control is actually quite good in wow.

But the marksman spec for hunter was always a staple of raiding and it's not the pet spec.

Regardless, the hunter role is a role they can only fill. It's no surprise they are the most popular wow class.

Linaleah

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Because there's no crossbows?


Seriously though, I don't think the amount of bow users is too disproportionate to the amount of players who play DW/2H, DW/S&B, S&B/2H etc etc - atleast in PvP.

Across all MMOS/RPGs i have played that i could have access to the population class distribution, the Majority plays an archer class style. Not to all combined, but let's say 100%: 10%Healer 10% Warrior 15%Thief 15%Barbarian 20%Mage 30%Archer. Just a rough exemple.

...and what MMOs would those be?

Because in games like WoW (https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes) or GW2 (https://gw2armory.com/statistics) the amount of archers isn't that out of control (i.e. "30%").

I was a bit surprised though to see hunters as the most popular class in WoW (total, but not for max. level players), I remember almost everyone playing a rogue back in the days.

Still, the amount of archers isn't disproportionate to the amount of melee builds as in both of those games there's multiple melee playstyles as opposed to bow ones (or ranged physical damage in general).

Same is true for ESO.


I've played MMOs that didn't even have bows (or crossbows >:( )... Blade & Soul for example.

In truth, Hunters in wow are the only pureblood dps that's a ranged class that does physical damage.

They are the only class that fulfills that role and are one of the few pure dps classes (the bulk of classes in game are considered hybrid, meaning they fulfill different roles). The "pures" were generally the highest dps classes (as they always had 3 dps specs to choose from, one of them would likely shine at a time and sometimes more than one) The pure classes were hunter, rogue, mage and warlock...

its not just that. hunters and warlocks have pets, and hunter pets tend to be tankier. its not until relatively recently that warlocks have gotten sturdier. hunter is literally THE easiest class to play for a solo player. think ESO pet sorc.

Yeah and unlike eso... pets pathing and control is actually quite good in wow.

But the marksman spec for hunter was always a staple of raiding and it's not the pet spec.

Regardless, the hunter role is a role they can only fill. It's no surprise they are the most popular wow class.

oh god, don't even get me started on pet control in ESO... you have an option to tell them to attack, or tell them to go passive. that's it. and they start attacking anyways, even after you put them on passive, if you dare using a heavy attack. i really really like the idea of healing on a sorc, but I stopped becasue pet control/AI is beyond abysmal. and summoning pets back is also a pain and why the heck do they always start attacking random target farthest away from the group, instead of the target you are actualy hitting???

/deep breath
/end rant.

aaanyways, BM and survival did have their day in raiding here and there, so... there's that. and.. until recently, all 3 specs played with pets. I beleive Marks first got ability to go petless for extra damage in WoD?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Vahrokh wrote: »

Legolas

You beat me to it. The stealthy rogue archetype of daggers and a bow (aka Legolas) has always been extremely popular. In this game that combo will lead to the maximum possible damage you can get. It’s also why NBs are so popular as it fits the theme (well that and the fact that ZOS has made them the most powerful).

Another very popular type is the magic caster, which is why 90% of new players that don’t know anything about this game will gravitate towards either NB (former) or Sorcerer (later).

Now practically speaking, if a stamina based character wants to put out max damage, he needs a bow on his back bar. A magic based character, however, will never use one if they want a build that actually works.

Azuramoonstar

Æterny wrote: »

I am 30 yo atm, and a VERY experienced MMO/RPG player. And one thing i could notice is that every single game that gives the player the option to use a bow, the majority of the players take it.
So, the point of the topic is: Even having multiple different choices, like various types of magic casters, close combat fighter, stealth gameplay and so on. WHAT MAKES BOW SO ATTRACTIVE?
Specially at ESO, that it feels sooooo boring to play with this kind of weapon.
Let me know how you feel about it!

because playing ranged characters can be fun and fluid. You get to stand back and attack while avoiding 99% of damage. It isn't boring and a lot of ranged classes have skills that you apply stuff to your bows.

ff11 for example had a wide range of arrow types that did different things, ff14 has a lot of trick shots that look cool.

and in eso you can set up some cool shots.

rfennell_ESO

Linaleah wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Because there's no crossbows?


Seriously though, I don't think the amount of bow users is too disproportionate to the amount of players who play DW/2H, DW/S&B, S&B/2H etc etc - atleast in PvP.

Across all MMOS/RPGs i have played that i could have access to the population class distribution, the Majority plays an archer class style. Not to all combined, but let's say 100%: 10%Healer 10% Warrior 15%Thief 15%Barbarian 20%Mage 30%Archer. Just a rough exemple.

...and what MMOs would those be?

Because in games like WoW (https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes) or GW2 (https://gw2armory.com/statistics) the amount of archers isn't that out of control (i.e. "30%").

I was a bit surprised though to see hunters as the most popular class in WoW (total, but not for max. level players), I remember almost everyone playing a rogue back in the days.

Still, the amount of archers isn't disproportionate to the amount of melee builds as in both of those games there's multiple melee playstyles as opposed to bow ones (or ranged physical damage in general).

Same is true for ESO.


I've played MMOs that didn't even have bows (or crossbows >:( )... Blade & Soul for example.

In truth, Hunters in wow are the only pureblood dps that's a ranged class that does physical damage.

They are the only class that fulfills that role and are one of the few pure dps classes (the bulk of classes in game are considered hybrid, meaning they fulfill different roles). The "pures" were generally the highest dps classes (as they always had 3 dps specs to choose from, one of them would likely shine at a time and sometimes more than one) The pure classes were hunter, rogue, mage and warlock...

its not just that. hunters and warlocks have pets, and hunter pets tend to be tankier. its not until relatively recently that warlocks have gotten sturdier. hunter is literally THE easiest class to play for a solo player. think ESO pet sorc.

Yeah and unlike eso... pets pathing and control is actually quite good in wow.

But the marksman spec for hunter was always a staple of raiding and it's not the pet spec.

Regardless, the hunter role is a role they can only fill. It's no surprise they are the most popular wow class.

oh god, don't even get me started on pet control in ESO... you have an option to tell them to attack, or tell them to go passive. that's it. and they start attacking anyways, even after you put them on passive, if you dare using a heavy attack. i really really like the idea of healing on a sorc, but I stopped becasue pet control/AI is beyond abysmal. and summoning pets back is also a pain and why the heck do they always start attacking random target farthest away from the group, instead of the target you are actualy hitting???

/deep breath
/end rant.

aaanyways, BM and survival did have their day in raiding here and there, so... there's that. and.. until recently, all 3 specs played with pets. I beleive Marks first got ability to go petless for extra damage in WoD?

Yeah, I would be totally hyped for a necromancer class in eso... except for that little issue of pets and how god awfully bad they are in the game and how do you have a necromancer without at least a skeleton pet.

Oddly, pet control was likely better in everquest over eso. It's just lol.

As for the Wow and hunters point... well, any of the classes that are pure dps (no alternate roles available e.g. healer, tank) with 3 specs were invariably going to be good in one of them. They always had an option to switch to in the case of "adjustment" with nerfing.

In Eso it's actually not so simple to go ALL bow. It's vital that many stamina builds at least offbar it, it's really that good. In pve , I don't think not offbaring bow is even viable.