Divine Prosecution : an excursion into pencil-legs

Recremen

So last night I was starting to put together a new outfit (please note this is not even close to the finished form) when I noticed a terrible problem with the Divine Prosecution legs.



It shrink-wraps them!! My Khajiit is an able-bodied warrior with thunderous thighs which cause the very earth to quake with every stride, but now it's like he's been stricken with some kind of wasting sickness. It's dreadful. And it really serves to highlight the aesthetic issues I have with a lot of armors. I'm tired of leggings-style pants and stocking boots. Our aesthetic options are greatly diminished if we're looking for anything even remotely bulky below the waist, which makes it quite difficult to get a more athletic aesthetic. Even the bulkier sets, like Abah's Watch heavy, tend to have this ridiculous taper from knee to ankle such that it looks like you're walking around on a pair of upright triangles. Something's got to be done!

Starlock

We Altmer are simply trying to correct your aesthetic deficiencies.

In seriousness, though, I hadn't (and still haven't) noticed any issue. Legs are supposed to taper from hip to foot. Bloated ankles are a sign of bad health conditions.

Recremen

Starlock wrote: »

We Altmer are simply trying to correct your aesthetic deficiencies.

In seriousness, though, I hadn't (and still haven't) noticed any issue. Legs are supposed to taper from hip to foot. Bloated ankles are a sign of bad health conditions.

While you are correct that the actual leg and ankle taper down, we are talking about outfits here. In real life, long boots that go up to the knees (like almost 100% of ESO boots do) almost invariably have a lot of room because you have t get your whole foot through the tube of it to actually put it on. There are exceptions, of course, like ones with giant zippers or laces, or ones made of stretchy material, but I wouldn't exactly call those armor-grade. It's hard to get that rugged hero aesthetic with like... compression shorts, is all I'm saying.

Ragebull

Looks fine to me

madchuska83

Dude, those boots have straps on the side. They're supposed to be tight.

WoodenHeart

Can we start calling you Pencil-legs Men'do now?

Recremen

madchuska83 wrote: »

Dude, those boots have straps on the side. They're supposed to be tight.

@madchuska83 The boots on this one are actually pretty good, they're SKinchanger medium and they're one of the best medium boots in the game for my purposes precisely because they're more realistically thick than other medium boots. We're not talking about these boots, just the Divine Prosecution legs. Check at the knees. They've shrunk the muscle just above them down to pencils.

Recremen

Ragebull wrote: »

Looks fine to me

@Ragebull

I've taken some additional screenshots to clarify. The region in question is the leg, just above the knee. Surely you notice the change in shape, yes?





It's like he skipped 137 leg days in a row while also starving himself.

Donari

They look well-proportioned to me, at least in the angle of your shot. But then I RL have very skinny limbs (wish my middle was skinny to match, lol, middle age spread is real) so I tend to project slimness as "natural." Do you have a comparison screenshot of what your character normally looks like in armor?

Yakidafi

I am happy my eyes can not spot these kind of differences

SquareSausage

If you have big thighs, they will always taper down towards the kness, then your leg expands again around the calf muscle then back in towards your ankle.

You can't really even see your thighs as they are obscured by the flared apron ontop of the trousers.

Sheezabeast

Khajiit has nice muscles, yes

Boo shoddy armor!

Recremen

Donari wrote: »

They look well-proportioned to me, at least in the angle of your shot. But then I RL have very skinny limbs (wish my middle was skinny to match, lol, middle age spread is real) so I tend to project slimness as "natural." Do you have a comparison screenshot of what your character normally looks like in armor?

@Donari

An example of pants that aren't so form-fitting/form-deleting, from an old outfit I ran.

Recremen

SquareSausage wrote: »

If you have big thighs, they will always taper down towards the kness, then your leg expands again around the calf muscle then back in towards your ankle.

You can't really even see your thighs as they are obscured by the flared apron ontop of the trousers.

@SquareSausage

I am aware how leg muscles work, yes. What is observable in the pics I've provided, though, is a measurable shrinking of the leg muscles. As in I literally measured it to be sure it wasn't some optical illusion. I wasn't going to take an up-the-skirt shot to really show the shrinkage because what is provided is both standardized (by using the outfit station UI's fixed camera) and sufficient to demonstrate the issue.

DeadlyRecluse

I don't really care about this. But I do care about other relatively insignificant things!

As a result, I'm glad SOMEONE actually does pay attention to it and call for fixes, especially for issues that are in theory easy fixes with nothing but upside.

SquareSausage

Recremen wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

If you have big thighs, they will always taper down towards the kness, then your leg expands again around the calf muscle then back in towards your ankle.

You can't really even see your thighs as they are obscured by the flared apron ontop of the trousers.

@SquareSausage

I am aware how leg muscles work, yes. What is observable in the pics I've provided, though, is a measurable shrinking of the leg muscles. As in I literally measured it to be sure it wasn't some optical illusion. I wasn't going to take an up-the-skirt shot to really show the shrinkage because what is provided is both standardized (by using the outfit station UI's fixed camera) and sufficient to demonstrate the issue.

Duuno dude, I dont see it that much of shrinkage at all. You can't even see your thighs to have any grumbles, just your knees and lower extremity on show which look fine by my eyes.

Recremen

SquareSausage wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

If you have big thighs, they will always taper down towards the kness, then your leg expands again around the calf muscle then back in towards your ankle.

You can't really even see your thighs as they are obscured by the flared apron ontop of the trousers.

@SquareSausage

I am aware how leg muscles work, yes. What is observable in the pics I've provided, though, is a measurable shrinking of the leg muscles. As in I literally measured it to be sure it wasn't some optical illusion. I wasn't going to take an up-the-skirt shot to really show the shrinkage because what is provided is both standardized (by using the outfit station UI's fixed camera) and sufficient to demonstrate the issue.

Duuno dude, I dont see it that much of shrinkage at all. You can't even see your thighs to have any grumbles, just your knees and lower extremity on show which look fine by my eyes.

@SquareSausage

I mean if you don't see it you don't see it, but the screenshots I provided in the 8th post down clearly show shrinkage in the vastus lateralis and vastus medialis for the shot with the pants versus the shot without any armor. I realize not everyone has an eye for this sort of thing but you can even measure with a ruler, there is very plainly space above the knee correlating to those two muscles which is smaller when using those pants.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Recremen wrote: »

Thank you for posting this, because without the original size for comparison it's not obvious at all. But now I can see it.

Vivecc

you really want the dev´s running 24h in circles to fix this only for you ? some have problems….

max_only

Recremen wrote: »

Ragebull wrote: »

Looks fine to me

@Ragebull

I've taken some additional screenshots to clarify. The region in question is the leg, just above the knee. Surely you notice the change in shape, yes?





It's like he skipped 137 leg days in a row while also starving himself.

I don’t see it honestly. It’s two different cuts of pants. Like slim vs straight vs relaxed fit. It’s a fashion thing that exists in real life, that the way you cut pants make the same person look thinner or thicker.

Try your local Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic or J Crew. I know when I’m shopping at Old Navy it’s like one potato sack size fits all but more expensive clothes have different cuts.

Recremen

max_only wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Ragebull wrote: »

Looks fine to me

@Ragebull

I've taken some additional screenshots to clarify. The region in question is the leg, just above the knee. Surely you notice the change in shape, yes?





It's like he skipped 137 leg days in a row while also starving himself.

I don’t see it honestly. It’s two different cuts of pants. Like slim vs straight vs relaxed fit. It’s a fashion thing that exists in real life, that the way you cut pants make the same person look thinner or thicker.

Try your local Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic or J Crew. I know when I’m shopping at Old Navy it’s like one potato sack size fits all but more expensive clothes have different cuts.

@max_only

It's not a different cut of pants, which is why I showed the "no pants" version. It's not an optical illusion, it measurably makes the leg smaller than it's supposed to be. Not the lower leg, mind you, the part above the knee.

Waffennacht

max_only wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Ragebull wrote: »

Looks fine to me

@Ragebull

I've taken some additional screenshots to clarify. The region in question is the leg, just above the knee. Surely you notice the change in shape, yes?





It's like he skipped 137 leg days in a row while also starving himself.

I don’t see it honestly. It’s two different cuts of pants. Like slim vs straight vs relaxed fit. It’s a fashion thing that exists in real life, that the way you cut pants make the same person look thinner or thicker.

Try your local Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic or J Crew. I know when I’m shopping at Old Navy it’s like one potato sack size fits all but more expensive clothes have different cuts.

Look right below the "skirt" on the right side (character's left) right after the knee cap

I can now see the difference

The leg's thickness has been reduced.

Though, I think it's a more athletic look than the non pant pic to me

Recremen

Waffennacht wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Ragebull wrote: »

Looks fine to me

@Ragebull

I've taken some additional screenshots to clarify. The region in question is the leg, just above the knee. Surely you notice the change in shape, yes?





It's like he skipped 137 leg days in a row while also starving himself.

I don’t see it honestly. It’s two different cuts of pants. Like slim vs straight vs relaxed fit. It’s a fashion thing that exists in real life, that the way you cut pants make the same person look thinner or thicker.

Try your local Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic or J Crew. I know when I’m shopping at Old Navy it’s like one potato sack size fits all but more expensive clothes have different cuts.

Look right below the "skirt" on the right side (character's left) right after the knee cap

I can now see the difference

The leg's thickness has been reduced.

Though, I think it's a more athletic look than the non pant pic to me

It's more athletic with less muscle!?!?! But hey at least I know I'm not going crazy and that empiricism is still real.

Waffennacht

Recremen wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Ragebull wrote: »

Looks fine to me

@Ragebull

I've taken some additional screenshots to clarify. The region in question is the leg, just above the knee. Surely you notice the change in shape, yes?





It's like he skipped 137 leg days in a row while also starving himself.

I don’t see it honestly. It’s two different cuts of pants. Like slim vs straight vs relaxed fit. It’s a fashion thing that exists in real life, that the way you cut pants make the same person look thinner or thicker.

Try your local Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic or J Crew. I know when I’m shopping at Old Navy it’s like one potato sack size fits all but more expensive clothes have different cuts.

Look right below the "skirt" on the right side (character's left) right after the knee cap

I can now see the difference

The leg's thickness has been reduced.

Though, I think it's a more athletic look than the non pant pic to me

It's more athletic with less muscle!?!?! But hey at least I know I'm not going crazy and that empiricism is still real.

Lol, I think of athletic like a swimmer, or runner, not so much bulky like a body builder.

Dude looks like he's going for Mr. Universe

Royaji

I think it's the case of armor and clothing having a predefined model instead of being actually applied to your specific character model. The opposite of your issue happens with some bulkier outfits on slender female characters.

I honestly wouldn't expect a fix for that. ZOS has stopped making meshes for females entirely after base game styles, dealing with even smaller issues like yours probably isn't on their agenda.

Recremen

Waffennacht wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Ragebull wrote: »

Looks fine to me

@Ragebull

I've taken some additional screenshots to clarify. The region in question is the leg, just above the knee. Surely you notice the change in shape, yes?





It's like he skipped 137 leg days in a row while also starving himself.

I don’t see it honestly. It’s two different cuts of pants. Like slim vs straight vs relaxed fit. It’s a fashion thing that exists in real life, that the way you cut pants make the same person look thinner or thicker.

Try your local Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic or J Crew. I know when I’m shopping at Old Navy it’s like one potato sack size fits all but more expensive clothes have different cuts.

Look right below the "skirt" on the right side (character's left) right after the knee cap

I can now see the difference

The leg's thickness has been reduced.

Though, I think it's a more athletic look than the non pant pic to me

It's more athletic with less muscle!?!?! But hey at least I know I'm not going crazy and that empiricism is still real.

Lol, I think of athletic like a swimmer, or runner, not so much bulky like a body builder.

Dude looks like he's going for Mr. Universe

I mean, have you seen the size of the legs on olympic sprinters? >.> But no I see what you're saying. I recognize that slimmer builds are also athletic, but when I think of the term athletic I usually think of a combination of fitness types, so someone with good strength but also good speed and endurance. Less of a specialized body for niche sport roles and more general-purpose fitness. So I'm not thinking the gazelle-like frame of a typical marathoner or massive bulk of a bodybuilder, but something more in-between.

Sylvermynx

Eh..... I just want tight-to-the-legs gear instead of balloons. Mostly the armor pieces are.... foofy. I realize that armor (assuming IRL) isn't skin-tight.... but it's a fantasy game. I don't want bulk.... I want sleek.

Actually I want some of the skimpier armor bits from Skyrim.... Yep. I'm female. And I'm OLD. So if I want my girls to run around half-naked, sue me?

Recremen

Since I'm now obsessed with this, here's the style on my max-muscled orc character.




Y'all gotta see it there.

Mr_Walker

Your toon has obviously decided to go for classic aesthetics rather than the ridiculous X-frame of current BBers, good choice!

Hippie4927

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh..... I just want tight-to-the-legs gear instead of balloons. Mostly the armor pieces are.... foofy. I realize that armor (assuming IRL) isn't skin-tight.... but it's a fantasy game. I don't want bulk.... I want sleek.

Actually I want some of the skimpier armor bits from Skyrim.... Yep. I'm female. And I'm OLD. So if I want my girls to run around half-naked, sue me?

I lol'd when I read that because I am female and I'm old, also, and I dress my girls as skimpy as possible. I like sexy characters!

Sylvermynx

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh..... I just want tight-to-the-legs gear instead of balloons. Mostly the armor pieces are.... foofy. I realize that armor (assuming IRL) isn't skin-tight.... but it's a fantasy game. I don't want bulk.... I want sleek.

Actually I want some of the skimpier armor bits from Skyrim.... Yep. I'm female. And I'm OLD. So if I want my girls to run around half-naked, sue me?

I lol'd when I read that because I am female and I'm old, also, and I dress my girls as skimpy as possible. I like sexy characters!

I do too. There's some truly cool though quite skimpy stuff in various mods for Skyrim (which I've played for years now) that I keep missing for my girls here. I'd post screenies, but not sure what the "allowed" thing is here.