PermaBlock Tanks

Texecutioner187

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

Aedaryl

Are you speaking about Warden able to tank a lot of people but to able not kill someone or are you speaking about warden that are tanky but still able to kill someone ?

Texecutioner187

Aedaryl wrote: »

Are you speaking about Warden able to tank a lot of people but to able not kill someone or are you speaking about warden that are tanky but still able to kill someone ?

My initial post was referring to DK being able to tank a lot of people but never do damage, literally holding block the entire time. However, your reply makes me curious about the tanky Warden that IS able to kill someone - sounds like it warrants more concern.

I've been finding intrigue in PvP tanking lately and trying to understand how they work, how they can be beaten, etc and I noticed that Permablock tank was practically untouchable(but didn't do any damage however).

Aedaryl

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Are you speaking about Warden able to tank a lot of people but to able not kill someone or are you speaking about warden that are tanky but still able to kill someone ?

My initial post was referring to DK being able to tank a lot of people but never do damage, literally holding block the entire time. However, your reply makes me curious about the tanky Warden that IS able to kill someone - sounds like it warrants more concern.

I've been finding intrigue in PvP tanking lately and trying to understand how they work, how they can be beaten, etc and I noticed that Permablock tank was practically untouchable(but didn't do any damage however).

You said "spamming their three skills" I though you was speaking about the warden healing ultimate.

A tank only character (the best tank is NB, not dk for PvP) is not something you should try to kill.

They are usefull only if people attack them. If no one attack them, they are just useless.

Tanky damage stam user is the meta, it's just a melting pot between heavy armor, high resistances, block, strong HoT, LoS with speed + lingering potion.

Texecutioner187

Aedaryl wrote: »

They are usefull only if people attack them. If no one attack them, they are just useless.

I had a feeling this was the case with "THAT" type of tank. No point in attacking them if they aren't going to kill me. Do you have any general recommendations towards PvP stam tanks that I could start to research and whatnot to learn more about them? I'm not the "tell me a build" kind of person, I like to understand the class and style and figure it out for myself but some guidance in the right direction never hurts Thank you so far

Takes-No-Prisoner

Aedaryl wrote: »

A tank only character (the best tank is NB, not dk for PvP) is not something you should try to kill.

Pretty much this.

However, you'll be forced into situations where you're going to need to deal with a guy with great tanky stats. This all boils down to class. Which the OP has not mentioned what class they are. I cannot really advise what to do.

But, the most general thing to do is, just avoid like Aedaryl said.

Sparr0w

Usually it's balance for magicka, fragmented shield for stamina, dragon blood for burst heal or vigor/lingering for hot.

Low on resources pop the shield ulti, drop block & regen everything.

Some run immov pots, some backbar a 2H.

Sky_WK

There's no such thing anymore, move on.

Waffennacht

The warden tanks that can kill have a few ways to get there

Sload/Torug
Winterborn Skoria
Zaan/Skoria Harbringer

"Permablock" is usually sturdy + Impregnable (or just sturdy) some run Alteration (or did)

1v1 Blessed is a way to get permablock (because the 5 sec if miss allows Stam Regen)

usmguy1234

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

Cough barkskin cough cough

Texecutioner187

Yeah I'm not any specific class for this, it's just a general post gathering info. I don't like to be too specific when asking for information because it leaves the discussion open for different responses, which is what I'm looking for now... just all around information.

usmguy1234

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Yeah I'm not any specific class for this, it's just a general post gathering info. I don't like to be too specific when asking for information because it leaves the discussion open for different responses, which is what I'm looking for now... just all around information.

If you look into the set I posted, you'll know what fuels them... and why it's best to ignore them.

Most_Awesome

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

Cough barkskin cough cough

If this set is bugged again and has no cool down this is the set that brought all the Immortal DK's their fame, and even to this day the clueless praise them for their skill and use of game mechanics LOL

usmguy1234

Most_Awesome wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

Cough barkskin cough cough

If this set is bugged again and has no cool down this is the set that brought all the Immortal DK's their fame, and even to this day the clueless praise them for their skill and use of game mechanics LOL

Barkskin/fury/bloodspawn on an argonian dk is still really strong and still can pseudo block against a entire raid. Get two with guard and they're damn near immortal.

Waffennacht

Well, if barkskin doesn't have a cooldown....

That's pretty strong.

Cuz with it no bugged 200 hps is Uber weak,

The Stam return is solid not bugged

1k Stam per sec would be insane

Spartabunny08

Fear from NB. Any unblockable ability will drop block and then you can kill them. Thanks to nerfs there is no permablock anymore, It'll just look that way. See a tank unkillable with 3 or 4 on them and doing no damage to tank, add nightblade fear and bam they're dead. Happens to me all the time. I seen two tanks tethered and they had 4 or 5 on them doing no damage. Slotted my fear and went and used that every time I could, they didn't last long after that...lol

Pijng

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Fear from NB. Any unblockable ability will drop block and then you can kill them. Thanks to nerfs there is no permablock anymore, It'll just look that way. See a tank unkillable with 3 or 4 on them and doing no damage to tank, add nightblade fear and bam they're dead. Happens to me all the time. I seen two tanks tethered and they had 4 or 5 on them doing no damage. Slotted my fear and went and used that every time I could, they didn't last long after that...lol

Yup. It's also funny when dk reflected your cripple and after fear he runs far fsr away with major exp and you being snared

Texecutioner187

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Fear from NB. Any unblockable ability will drop block and then you can kill them. Thanks to nerfs there is no permablock anymore, It'll just look that way. See a tank unkillable with 3 or 4 on them and doing no damage to tank, add nightblade fear and bam they're dead. Happens to me all the time. I seen two tanks tethered and they had 4 or 5 on them doing no damage. Slotted my fear and went and used that every time I could, they didn't last long after that...lol

Is that why someone earlier mentioned NB tanks are tough to fight in PvP? Because they have certain skills that help them when tanking?

Escorpiao_Noturno

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

1-)what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

- The gear depends from player to player.But normaly damage mitigation or healing or sustain sets
- Normaly yes, 7 sturdy or 8(shield) and now for me is reduce potion cowndown, not reduction block cost
- Yes a lot of points on Shadow Ward and for me (magica) The Apprentice

All tanks can be killed, it just matters how many players and how good they are.

They "normaly" cant kill no one. But them can make a fight much easier to any good player dps

By the way.. My new tank movie

https://youtu.be/DJlM5sUq9oI

Waffennacht

@Escorpiao_Noturno TY! That's exactly what I think people like OP are facing

Spartabunny08

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Fear from NB. Any unblockable ability will drop block and then you can kill them. Thanks to nerfs there is no permablock anymore, It'll just look that way. See a tank unkillable with 3 or 4 on them and doing no damage to tank, add nightblade fear and bam they're dead. Happens to me all the time. I seen two tanks tethered and they had 4 or 5 on them doing no damage. Slotted my fear and went and used that every time I could, they didn't last long after that...lol

Is that why someone earlier mentioned NB tanks are tough to fight in PvP? Because they have certain skills that help them when tanking?

I can't speak from experience on a NB tank. I've been eyeing to make one, haven't gotten around to buying an extra character slot yet. Thing is from a warden, DK tank perspective this is what's been done to bring me down. S&B while blocking can mitigate a ton of damage, when you can't block or heal a tank is in real danger. This is one reason I like the ironblood set. Even in the described situation this set will proc and reduce their damage by 30%, very helpful. A NB tank as you said do have abilities to heal more based upon how many they're fighting, while also damaging them. It's at the very least a most interesting tank. My stamblade is my experience with the NB class. Although I have made my stamblade as tanky as I can. When I cloak I'm over resistance cap, I'm around 3000 wpn dmg and very fast in sneak. I have a very unorthodox stamblade build and ive never had more fun. Strife is a NB ability from mag side that if morphed one direction adds 8% added healing from being slotted does damage and heals on a percentage of damage done over time. With enough spell damage and max mag this is awesome. The reason a NB tank is tough to fight is versatility. As a tank they may actually do the most damage from a tanking pov. If I'm not accurate here please elaborate...

StamWhipCultist

DK can be tanky, but with all these unblockable stuns, bleeds, sloads, oblivion damage sets DK can hardly be permablocking tank in PvP for a long time against ppl who use any of fore mentioned stuff.

Aedaryl

NB tank is the best "useless" tank in PvP.

They perform far better than Stam DK tanks.

Priyasekarssk

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

DK + lizard is the best for that. Current meta and the immortals gods in PVP. DKs will never answer fearing their class will be nerfed. Currently DKs & NBS are wrecking the battlegrounds ,with DKs alterations to perma block builds , while NBs doing the kills. You need good health regen on top of CC immunity up all the time 2K+ combined with lingering health should be suffice. Mostly CC immunity comes form heavy armor skill. 32k+ resistance. 3k+ crit resistance & 2K health recovery.
Pharia/Fortress+ Impeg + Troll king. Just circle around objects. You need sufficient stamina while blocking. Dont rely on stamina recovery. Stamina wont generate while blocking. Instead stack block costs reduction.

DKs is excellent in resource generation while blocking ( you need to keep up all the time) : -
Helping hands (DK passive) - usually Igneous shield
Battle roar (DK passive) - Technically more return by stacking ultimate generation tools
Constitution (heavy armor passive)
Infused potion enchant.
Stamina steal enchants / poisons
Stamina potions (honorable mention for Immovable potions to avoid CCs through block, which can save stamina as well)

Optional only in case : -
Spell Wall (ultimate) - Free block! And you can weave heavy attacks to return stamina as well
Switching between frost staff / SnB -
Heavy attacks.

Happy trolling.

Texecutioner187

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Fear from NB. Any unblockable ability will drop block and then you can kill them. Thanks to nerfs there is no permablock anymore, It'll just look that way. See a tank unkillable with 3 or 4 on them and doing no damage to tank, add nightblade fear and bam they're dead. Happens to me all the time. I seen two tanks tethered and they had 4 or 5 on them doing no damage. Slotted my fear and went and used that every time I could, they didn't last long after that...lol

Is that why someone earlier mentioned NB tanks are tough to fight in PvP? Because they have certain skills that help them when tanking?

I can't speak from experience on a NB tank. I've been eyeing to make one, haven't gotten around to buying an extra character slot yet. Thing is from a warden, DK tank perspective this is what's been done to bring me down. S&B while blocking can mitigate a ton of damage, when you can't block or heal a tank is in real danger. This is one reason I like the ironblood set. Even in the described situation this set will proc and reduce their damage by 30%, very helpful. A NB tank as you said do have abilities to heal more based upon how many they're fighting, while also damaging them. It's at the very least a most interesting tank. My stamblade is my experience with the NB class. Although I have made my stamblade as tanky as I can. When I cloak I'm over resistance cap, I'm around 3000 wpn dmg and very fast in sneak. I have a very unorthodox stamblade build and ive never had more fun. Strife is a NB ability from mag side that if morphed one direction adds 8% added healing from being slotted does damage and heals on a percentage of damage done over time. With enough spell damage and max mag this is awesome. The reason a NB tank is tough to fight is versatility. As a tank they may actually do the most damage from a tanking pov. If I'm not accurate here please elaborate...

The information you gave was interesting to read. Does this mean(asking everyone) that for a good tank but ALSO damaging one that Nightblade would be a good class? I've gotten moreso onto the direction of just a damn beefy tank but can't imagine not doing damage so hoping to be able to incorporate that also... any suggestions/direction?

I'll admit, i don't PvP much so i know the tank will only be as good as I am, so just looking for ideas of a good foundation... I'll die and learn along the way

Spartabunny08

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Fear from NB. Any unblockable ability will drop block and then you can kill them. Thanks to nerfs there is no permablock anymore, It'll just look that way. See a tank unkillable with 3 or 4 on them and doing no damage to tank, add nightblade fear and bam they're dead. Happens to me all the time. I seen two tanks tethered and they had 4 or 5 on them doing no damage. Slotted my fear and went and used that every time I could, they didn't last long after that...lol

Is that why someone earlier mentioned NB tanks are tough to fight in PvP? Because they have certain skills that help them when tanking?

I can't speak from experience on a NB tank. I've been eyeing to make one, haven't gotten around to buying an extra character slot yet. Thing is from a warden, DK tank perspective this is what's been done to bring me down. S&B while blocking can mitigate a ton of damage, when you can't block or heal a tank is in real danger. This is one reason I like the ironblood set. Even in the described situation this set will proc and reduce their damage by 30%, very helpful. A NB tank as you said do have abilities to heal more based upon how many they're fighting, while also damaging them. It's at the very least a most interesting tank. My stamblade is my experience with the NB class. Although I have made my stamblade as tanky as I can. When I cloak I'm over resistance cap, I'm around 3000 wpn dmg and very fast in sneak. I have a very unorthodox stamblade build and ive never had more fun. Strife is a NB ability from mag side that if morphed one direction adds 8% added healing from being slotted does damage and heals on a percentage of damage done over time. With enough spell damage and max mag this is awesome. The reason a NB tank is tough to fight is versatility. As a tank they may actually do the most damage from a tanking pov. If I'm not accurate here please elaborate...

The information you gave was interesting to read. Does this mean(asking everyone) that for a good tank but ALSO damaging one that Nightblade would be a good class? I've gotten moreso onto the direction of just a damn beefy tank but can't imagine not doing damage so hoping to be able to incorporate that also... any suggestions/direction?

I'll admit, i don't PvP much so i know the tank will only be as good as I am, so just looking for ideas of a good foundation... I'll die and learn along the way

The thing is if you were to go tank route you're setting up to take a beating no other role can take. On my tanks which I do not play as much anymore because of the direction they're taking tanks. To be tanky on any build you need to know the resistance caps. 33000 spell and physical resistance is hard cap. Major fracture and breach removes like 5000 something resistance and minor like 1300. So if you were to go over the 33000 number the extra will not be active until a breach/fracture is applied to you. But this is a slippery slope...lol A few tanks I know like to run their resistance like this to compensate for the fracture/breach. A Nightblade tank needs to be played like a DD. So from a foundation standpoint for example. I have a Argonian Templar. I used him for my guild as a healer, he was hard af to kill. Quit the guilds. I remade him. Went 5 heavy 2 light. Templars aren't great at getting damage real high. So Rattlecage heavy armor provides great boost to damage for a class that can't buff it's own major sorcery. It's a choice. Another would be like war maiden weapons and jewelry but the caveat is one would have to use entropy to get major sorcery, simply a preference. But I keep my S&B side for shields purify and buffs and to survive stupid damage. The other side is a nirnhoned restoration staff. Gotta gold the weapons for max damage. About 200 more damage from purple to gold. Every ability I use for damage is dot. Skoria takes care of the rest. To sum it up my magplar is at resistance cap, 3000 crit resit. 3100 spell damage and with the restoration staff if I run low on mag one heavy hit fixes the problem. Very tanky, does very well putting out damage and has really strong heals. This template will work mostly across the board. I'm doing the same thing on a Argonian stamblade, 5 med 1 heavy 1 light. So much fun. The thing is the very best players one will need more damage to bring them down but there's also the chance that fight would stalemate from neither being able to kill each other. As of late though my builds have been having no problems wrecking the leaderboard until the top one gets emp...lmao They need emp power to compete, this works.

Siohwenoeht

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

DK + lizard is the best for that. Current meta and the immortals gods in PVP. DKs will never answer fearing their class will be nerfed. Currently DKs & NBS are wrecking the battlegrounds ,with DKs alterations to perma block builds , while NBs doing the kills. You need good health regen on top of CC immunity up all the time 2K+ combined with lingering health should be suffice. Mostly CC immunity comes form heavy armor skill. 32k+ resistance. 3k+ crit resistance & 2K health recovery.
Pharia/Fortress+ Impeg + Troll king. Just circle around objects. You need sufficient stamina while blocking. Dont rely on stamina recovery. Stamina wont generate while blocking. Instead stack block costs reduction.

DKs is excellent in resource generation while blocking ( you need to keep up all the time) : -
Helping hands (DK passive) - usually Igneous shield
Battle roar (DK passive) - Technically more return by stacking ultimate generation tools
Constitution (heavy armor passive)
Infused potion enchant.
Stamina steal enchants / poisons
Stamina potions (honorable mention for Immovable potions to avoid CCs through block, which can save stamina as well)

Optional only in case : -
Spell Wall (ultimate) - Free block! And you can weave heavy attacks to return stamina as well
Switching between frost staff / SnB -
Heavy attacks.

Happy trolling.

I'm not quite sure why you crusade against dk's but I'd love to live in your world where we can survive, sustain and do damage like you imagine we can.

The only thing I will say to your points is everything you mention is available to every class either through their own passives or plentiful other means (potions and food are not a dk exclusive).

Dk's are standing our ground in the templar's house of nerfs and from our point of view it's been quite long enough since either of our classes have had any love.

P.s. I hate feeding trolls but every once in a while you have to or they'll eat the whole village.

IZZEFlameLash

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Let me start this out by saying that I don't intend on this being a troll thread, but I'm trying to understand their composition so I can better determine how to play against them. I've seen the videos of them just spamming their three skills and holding block but what exactly are they doing with their gear? Just all sturdy gear with block cost reduction jewelry and 100CP into Shadow Ward?

DK + lizard is the best for that. Current meta and the immortals gods in PVP. DKs will never answer fearing their class will be nerfed. Currently DKs & NBS are wrecking the battlegrounds ,with DKs alterations to perma block builds , while NBs doing the kills. You need good health regen on top of CC immunity up all the time 2K+ combined with lingering health should be suffice. Mostly CC immunity comes form heavy armor skill. 32k+ resistance. 3k+ crit resistance & 2K health recovery.
Pharia/Fortress+ Impeg + Troll king. Just circle around objects. You need sufficient stamina while blocking. Dont rely on stamina recovery. Stamina wont generate while blocking. Instead stack block costs reduction.

DKs is excellent in resource generation while blocking ( you need to keep up all the time) : -
Helping hands (DK passive) - usually Igneous shield
Battle roar (DK passive) - Technically more return by stacking ultimate generation tools
Constitution (heavy armor passive)
Infused potion enchant.
Stamina steal enchants / poisons
Stamina potions (honorable mention for Immovable potions to avoid CCs through block, which can save stamina as well)

Optional only in case : -
Spell Wall (ultimate) - Free block! And you can weave heavy attacks to return stamina as well
Switching between frost staff / SnB -
Heavy attacks.

Happy trolling.

I'm not quite sure why you crusade against dk's but I'd love to live in your world where we can survive, sustain and do damage like you imagine we can.

The only thing I will say to your points is everything you mention is available to every class either through their own passives or plentiful other means (potions and food are not a dk exclusive).

Dk's are standing our ground in the templar's house of nerfs and from our point of view it's been quite long enough since either of our classes have had any love.

P.s. I hate feeding trolls but every once in a while you have to or they'll eat the whole village.

He is probably that mSorc spamming Crystal Blast and uses bow.

Texecutioner187

So if I want to go an extremely tanky but can still dish out damage route, I'm reading that my best bet would be an NB?

ak_pvp

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

So if I want to go an extremely tanky but can still dish out damage route, I'm reading that my best bet would be an NB?

Dish out damage, no. Do nothing but 3 abilities and be immortal, yes.
The best "tank with damage" you can get is a stamden.

Texecutioner187

ak_pvp wrote: »

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

So if I want to go an extremely tanky but can still dish out damage route, I'm reading that my best bet would be an NB?

Dish out damage, no. Do nothing but 3 abilities and be immortal, yes.
The best "tank with damage" you can get is a stamden.

Any build suggestions i can look over to see what the playstyle consists of?